G-day Tom and all present.
She's a bit late so I think I will skip the drinks for me tonight but I will leave some money in the jar for tomorrow mornings early risers to use!
Tom- That was bridge was certainly interesting. Hope to get some more info and pics from you soon. I saw Lars got a little info on the GG1. It was a very nice electric and would have been even cooler to see it running in person. (Even though the only thing you would here from it would be it's traction motor cooling fans.)
Mike- Thanks for the World War ll article. Thats was a nice add. It was cool to think that when he come home he would be greeted by the Milwaukee. Gos to show the Milwaukee supported the war. Thank you.
Pete- Kansas City sounds like my kind of city to see some trains! The Gas turbines would have been cool to see. We had a Gas turbines but they died out quite the years back. The final turbine, out of three different turbines made, created 8500 horsepower. They belonged to the Union Pacific. I have a video on them and it shows one being started up. Now if you have ever seen a fire ball, it certainly doesn't compare to a turbine starting up!!!! The camera pans back and the flame must be shooting 30 or so feet into the air. It is one weird sight to behold. This didn't happen all the time. Once in a while you would see it.
Eric- Yes sir. They can be hard, especially when you're trying to tell apart an F3 to and F5. But I will still try and if I do get it wrong again (of course it will happen) I know I will have someone here that can correct me.
Rob- Those pictures of the battle (Recapture of Fort George) were really cool. I would have liked to been there for that. What I can't understand is how those guys to could just march up like that, in rows, shoot and get shot at like that. It boggles my mind. I don't think I could do that. BTW: Yes sir. The Little Joe article is coming. Issue three of the Milwaukee Road news is coming!
Nick- Doesn't matter if it turns a little weird now and then. Just how thing go. I can live with it, and keep on posting and that's all that matters.
Milwaukee road News issue 3 will be posted tomorrow. This time....It's on the Little Joe. The Russian made electric.
Happy railroading
James
Well good evening Officers,non-coms & other ranks-please excuse the absense but I have been out on bayonet training exercises with the 13th Llangwm Foot ( & mouth ) -a civilian militia feared throughout the principality-mostly by the livestock............
Delighted to see from recent postings that we have such a broad base of common interests -rail,air,sea--perhaps just a common fondness for days gone by......
Leon-Pewter tankards of foaming ale for the gentlemen please and delicate measures of port or sherry wine for the ladies (of officers) wives (of non-coms ) & womenfolk ( of other ranks ) if you would be so kind.
Bar ChandlerROB-Passed out & non-functional eh-? --Welcome to MY world........can you play the guitar at all ??--enjoyed the re-enactment shots - A couple of pals of mine in the bike club I used to ride with were big in the Sealed Knot-( a Brit civil war r/e group) until it was realised that they were going for it for real and putting people in hospital on a regular basis after which their presence was deemed superfluous-tales for another night as the Boss would say. Won`t dwell on the rugby beyond saying that your guys took first blood and played their hearts out ---fair play -one can ask no more
DL-Will do my best with the boat trains within my own rules ( has to come from my own library-tapping the keys removes the challenge for me-I guess I`m a librarian trapped in a decadent musicians body........) ,that said,I enjoyed the Paxman site with the Fell beast-looks like a class 37 modelled by an Absinthe drinker -the loco above it (10800) has the look of an ALCO RS11 with Brit drawgear-The gas turbine stuff most interesting-also recollections of the APT--nice one mate
TOM-as noted above,will see what I can find for the boat trains-those model soldiers are absolute beauts-what scale are they in ??? -the fine detail work is incredible,If they are yours then can I commission you to paint some engines for me.........? Also enjoyed the latest instalment of "Bridges to Babylon" (spot a repeating theme here ..?) -Had heard of Caisson disease but had no idea where the phrase came from-another gap filled That Hertz `incentive` advert is a worrying sign--what price integrity,eh...?
CM3-As you know,there is only one Horse artillery regiment which owns the freedom to exercise in Mentor County-and they are in support of the Mentor Fusiliers,the only regiment to successfully take the field for both sides during every major conflict on both sides of the border during the last 300 years--A fact reflected in their strangely complex standard............
LARS-Hello dear boy,have to confess,I take no interest in the `ratings` thing,indeed,I don`t even know how it works-why waste valuable breath on trivia is my take.........--Enjoyed the GG1 stuff-ugly brutes,but a class act nonetheless,and far better looking in tuscan or brunswick than that horrible blue........Enjoy the family weekend mate and thanks for keeping the flag flying.......
PETE-believe DL has covered the R.H.D.R school train,-was the railtour you took up the Burry Port & Gwedreath Valley line ?? -Can`t remember the names of the collieries up there but it used to cross the G.W.R South Wales main line at Llannelli and was worked by class 37`s in it`s latter days -also Drewry 03 shunters..............LOVED the double framer pix-notice the slight difference in colour between the two engines..........and what a mixed bag of coaches and all under a sunny Sussex sky-can`t beat it
MIKE-Our steady frame of reference in a changing world-here`s a non-railway one to test you -----"our new hit single hit the charts today with a bullet (CLANG) with a bullet (CLANG) with a bullet(CLANG)-thats right.........".(Clue:-recorded live at the Fillmore East in 1969/70)-have fun...
O.K-I`m out to the galley and burn some steaks and kick the staff around a bit-any requests for sunday pix ?--will try and cover where I can.
JAMES-sorry if this has all turned a bit weird-sometimes it`that sort of thread-no holds barred............
ERIC-Glad you have the TAG 150 stuff to hand-there`s some cracking shots-although I seem to remember some from your own camera from that event...........
Right,time for work,see you all tomorrow,take care
nick
Hi Tom and all.
That was weird. I copied Dave'sTurbine post but could not add any more , at least I was able to send it. Anyway I just wanted to say I hope DAVE you don,t mind me "borrowing" your post, and I caught your last two posts TOM I will look at the link now.
Well RUTH allow me to get a round in.
Pete.
A pint of Holden's Mild on this rather chilly Mid-Mo Encore afternoon, please RUTH.
LARS Sorry you are still having probs with the Forum. Thanks for the photo and technical data on the GG1s.I guess they must have been among ,if not, the first 100 mph electrics. the Pennsy red or green certainly suited these impressive locos.
It looks as though Ladies night should be a winner.
ERIC Yes it is strange that the Great Western introduced those ancient looking locos in 1936, although they were rebuilds, at a time when the A4 and Coronation Pacifics were about to be introduced and indeed the GG1s were being built. In fact the lead loco City of Truro had already been withdrawn an in a museum before #9017 appeared.
MIKE Great links again, with a St Louis theme, and the Liberty Bell on a railroad car. In the pics of Providence the station looks about on the site of the present day station although I though the station was moved perhaps CM3 can help. I could not get the link to the Mars, I will try again later.
ROB Thanks for the beer.I,m afraid I CANNOT agree with you that it is" useless non train stuff" I find reading about The Glengary Light Infantry and Canadian( and US) history very interesting, and thanks with the reenactments in keeping the history alive.
Good Encores on the Canadian and WP electrification.I think Britain should have gone in for all main line electrification in the Modenisation plan of 1955 instead of those un-proven diesels, although even now there is talk of de-electrifying the East Coast Main Line. Unbelieveable.
Another Our Place coincidence. My Steam magazine arrived and the editorial was about, "Getting more young people involved in railway preservation,", just as we have been discussing.
TOM I think I will stay out of the 1812 discussion, I will just say that in 1776 we had a King who was nutty at the time, it could have been different if we had Good Queen Bess still.
It will be a shame if the Union Station in St Louis loses its tracks. I will always have a good memory of the tracks in the station as on my first visit over here we stayed there. I took a walk outside the station and found the F Units and the cars, which were a total surprise. as it was the turn of the year 2000/2001 the area was covered in fairly deep snow, it was magic.
Thanks for the Budd/BlueBird Encore..
Truro is the County Town of Cornwall. If you do get to England and travel to Penzance there is a good view of the town from the train as the railway is on an embankment there overlooking the town.
For an encore I have got something WEST COAST DAVE posted on page 366 on turbines on UP, TOM had a couple of pics on page365 but I could not get them to copy
UP operated several classes of turbines, they began arriving in 1951, GE had a demo the #51 operating in 1948, UP took a liking to it, but did not need a cab on both ends, UP ordered a dozen and specified that unused cab space be used for fuel storage, the outside walkways gave name to this class as Veranda's additionally they had the ability to live on a grade of diesel fuel approaching crude oil, very cheap in those days. Noise was the overall objection and the necessity to shut the plant down when not in operation, UP/GE installed 300hp diesel engines for standby power and oil line heaters,, thus eliminating the many opportunities to surprise those unaware of of the finer points of turning over a dead cold turbine with the resulting explosion when not done correctly or in proper sequence. They possed a BB+BB wheel arraignment, thus they tracked and rode very well, continual upgrades netted 5000 to 6000hp. Early on auxiliary fuel tenders were provided and connections for operation with diesels was provided for. On districts with tunnels, it was forbidden to double head these untis, the lead unit would consume all the available oxygen and starve the second, second reason being a single unit was capable of hauling the standard tonnage of the time and could do so with authority. The next group arrived from GE in 1959, they were light years ahead of the Verandas, most of which had been returned to GE for parts salvage and inclusion into the new design, with a CC wheel arraignment and 7000hp on tap in a massive three unit set, over fifty were delivered by 1962, these proved extremely reliable and could operate in MU with any diesel in the fleet or each other and served until 1971, some remained in storage into 1973.
ENCORE! Saturday - ENCORE! Saturday
from Page 149
Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check this ad out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956) [located on page iii] You make a 10% commission every time you reserve a Hertz car for a passenger! May I reserve a Hertz car for you at your destination?” That question is loaded – with potential profit for you. Ask it every time you sell a ticket. When the passenger answers “Yes” make the reservation and Hertz will send you 10% of the total car rental. Chances are good he’ll say “Yes.” This year hundreds of thousands of wise rail travelers will take advantage of this easy, low-cost way to take the train and have a Hertz car waiting when they arrive. Your part is easy. Fill out the triplicate form supplied you free by Hertz. Send one to the proper Hertz office, give the passenger one, and keep one. The handy Hertz directory lists more than 1,000 offices around the world. So you’re assured of Hertz service (and that 10% commission) wherever a passenger is going. Hertz’ low rates include all gasoline and oil, plus proper insurance, and Hertz cars are new Powerglide Chevrolets or other fine makes. Start now! Write today for details and reservation forms Hertz Rent A Car, 218 So. Wabash Avenue, Chicago 4, Ill. . . . . .More people by far . . . use . . . . . . . . . . HERTZ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rent a car . . . . . Enjoy! Tom
Aftenoon Greetings Gents!
Just a few comments on this day's offerings - but first, a round for the house, Ruth! Boris, ring it . . .
Rob at 10:42 & 10:49 AM: The better question is WHAT are those gals doing TO 'n WITH little old me <geesh> Can't a guy cut a break 'round here
A fine URL to peruse is this from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
It pretty much echoes much of what I recall being taught in grade school about the War of 1812.
You mentioned the return of a "doppeganger," where 'n when And what exactly is your definition of a "doppeganger" Thanx.
Sorry to have to break this to ya, Mate - but we DO NOT accept pesos as payment for anything in this place. Further, just try 'n exchange 'em over at the 2nd National Bank of Mentor Village and Vito the Hit will personally undertake one of his fits of rage over the transaction. I'd be verrrrrrrrrrrry careful if I were you! The way Vito puts it is, nothing personal but what is it you don't understand about money <grin> I hear cement galoshes are making a comeback.
Another fine ENCORE! to keep things rolling along . . .
Mike at 12:46 PM: Nice spate of Talgo selections!
Yeah, tell me about it - age has a way of unskewing the things we used to skew! (a siberianmoism fer sure, fer sure!)
Appreciate your taking the time to stop by!
Okay Gents, time for me to get back to the chores of this day. We just returned from a 2 hour round trip by car to our "local" Air Force Base. Gotta take advantage of the dwindling benefits while we can. Actually, had to "undo" something that wasn't quite right with yesterday's trek to the same location - the most boring ride in all of mid-continent USA! Oh yes, petrol is still holding at $2.08 (rounded) up at Collusion Corner, in spite of the lowest world price per barrel in over a year. Go figger . . .
Later!
Tom
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
History seems less and less ancient the older I get.
The Liberty Bell
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/libertybell1.jpg
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/libertybell2.jpg
Eads Bridge Trolley Station
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/eadsbridge-trolleystation2a.jpg
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/electricway-closup.jpg
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2004052513425825985.jpg
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2004052513552226279.jpg
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2004052513484626181.jpg
Amtrak
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2006103019213413686.jpg
DL, the Mars flying boats are still in service
http://us.airliners.net/photos/photos/2/4/0/0445042.jpg
ENCORE SATURDAY ENCORE SATURDAY ENCORE SATURDAY
Another chunk of pre history from the archieves.This came from pg 314 during a rather heavily participated in disscussion on the Western Pacific. enjoy again.
Tom-I see that your unwholsome doppeganger is back dropping usless posts here there and everywhere again not unlike a seagull
Rob
trolleyboy wrote: CLASSIC JUICE # 27 WP's ELECTRIC LINES Well good day again gents another round of Blue I think Tom please. I haven't much info on the WP, however after such info packed pieces as dave and yourself put forth I'll just add this little bit on WP's electric lines. I know that these are in no way complete. Perhaps our local West Coast connections can fill in the more interesting meat that i leave out as I know there will be much. in the days of steam most Railroads viewed the electric interurbans as interlopers that competed for customner traffic and were to be beaten down at all costs. the WP thought differently and purchased two local lines and continued to operate them as electric lines years after many such railways had faded into history. Indeed the Sacarmento Northern and the Tidewater Southern fed needed traffic to their WP parent, and were a help as opposed to a hinderence. When the Wp's last steam power was being phased out the SN steeple cabs still fed freight to it's parent from the electric lines industrial spurs. Built primarily as a passenger line the SN ran interurban cars for three decades between the communities of its region. Indeed in 1941 when the SN ran it's last interurban passenger cars it bosted then the longest interurban run in the country an approx 200 mile round trip. Boarding one of the SN's cars at the Trans Bay Terminal in San Francisco, a passenger would cross the Bay Bridge into Oakland and then out into the dry Oakland Hills Region and down into the San Ramon valley. At Pittsburg Ca,the car ferry Ramon carried the cars across the Sacramento River. Beyond there the interurban cars sped across the delta lands on trestles and levees toward it's namesake city of Sacramento then continued north through the Sacremento valley to it's termi nus in Chico. The SN began scrapping it's steeple cabs in the mid 50's and aquired it's own roster of diesel locomotive replacements, painted in WP company colours but still lettered for the SN. Gradulaly several segments of trackage were retired and the SN became a collection of spurs reached via trackage rights over other railways. The section between Marysville and Yuba City remained electrified until 1965. The other WP electric line was the Tidewater Southern. it evolved into the diesel world more completly than it's sister the SN and remained intact.WP bought the 46 mile line in 1917 gaining it's conection at Stockton via Modesto and Turlock. This small lines days of electrification fell victim to the depression in 1932 when the passenger service and electric service ended. The WP kept the line open for it's wine and fruit trade however, revenue the line still subsides on today. Enjoy Rob
Morning folks. Tom where's Tom .what are you doing in that back room with Cindy and Ruth Think I'll help myself to the coffee today. Here's a sack of lars' peso's for a round later on
Pete-I neglected to mention those wonderfull shots you posted yesterday .. bad me allow me to purchase your libations for the rest of today
Eric-Yep I'm in there, and no not something I do all that often anymore, too much time and cash. I help out for the major events which roll around infrequently.here was a major building program of electric systems in Canada and the US during the 1890's to 1920's periodlitterally hundreds of systems on both sides of the boarder.The comming of the oil compnaies and buses changed everything witht eh depression being the final straw for most of the systems. We never looked back unfortunatly and the looking forward of the 40's and 50's was darned nearsighted
Tom-Glad that you liked the encore, I enjoyed rereading the wabash material as well.In it's own way the Wabash was a hometown road of sorts, with it having connections through Fort Erie and down the Canada Southern. Two NS trains still trundle through today on those ancient trackage rights. As for the history. I still maintain that no one won that war, if there had been a winnah ( you folks ) We wouldn't be here as a separte country. We forced back all three invasions and before the smoke had settled in 1814 there were more pieces of the US occupied by us. Upstate NY from Buffalo to the lake Ontario.With Sacketts Harbour and Plattsburg under seige Mackinanc Island we grabbed it in 1812 didn't give it back till 1815 after the war was over.Coarse we made a mess of Mr Maddison's house and his city as well. Oh well what can you do. Interesting that the war was actually over before the last battle was fought at New Orleans,and they talk about transatlantic mail service being slow today anyway those on both sides will claim what they claim, only those that were actually there know what really transpired. They say history is written by the victors, well two sets of history, draw from that what you wish
from Page 147
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #14 Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Budd Company and the Wabash from a advertisement (early 1950s) found in one of my scrap books.
New Blue Bird On The Wabash This is the Wabash Railroad’s new Budd-built, all-stainless steel Blue Bird, on its winging flight between St. Louis and Chicago. The Blue Bird will make the round trip daily between these two great terminal cities, adding to the completeness of Wabash service and presenting to its passengers comfort and luxury in rail travel previously unknown. For the Blue Bird is the latest in the roster of distinguished name trains which Budd has created for the modernization of American railroads. Four of its cars are Vista-Domes, giving passengers an unobstructed view of the rolling prairies, picturesque bluffs and river scenery along the way. Like all Budd-designed, Budd-built equipment, this train illustrates a principle – that better products are made of ideas as well as steel. This was true of the all-steel automobile body which Budd originated and which has made Budd the largest independent builder of body components in the world. It was true of the steel wheel which Budd developed to take the place of wood. It has been demonstrated in the Budd Disc Brake, and in stainless steel highway trailers. In the railroad field, Budd ideas were revolutionary. Ideas that attract passengers by making rail travel more inviting. Ideas that permit faster schedules and yield substantial operating economies. It was Budd vision which led to the whole concept of the modern, stainless steel light weight streamliner. And Budd today is the only car builder who employs the superior strength of stainless steel to achieve lightweight construction with safety. The Budd Co., Philadelphia, Detroit Budd Enjoy! Tom
G’day Gents!
Saturday and the weekend is upon us! Time for a cuppa Joe, some pastries goods from the Mentor Village Bakery and of course, a selection from the Menu Board of our <light> or <traditional> breakfasts!
After a very looooooong day yesterday, I must admit to malaise on my part, as there was simply no motivation to log on – so I didn’t! Thankfully, Pete ‘n Lars’ Posts lifted us out of the doldrums, followed by some night-time and early morning appearances by our night owls!
Acknowledgments since my last Post:
DL at 11:45 AM yesterday: Smart move regarding the red coat, especially since Awk has unscheduled sorties ‘round it – advanced strafing and bombing exercises (ASBE)!
In the small world department, your mention of your uncle being trained in Canada for WWII flying brings to mind this tid bit: my wife’s father was an RCAF pilot who trained others for combat operations during the war. Wonder if they ever met
Fine looking locos those 18100s ‘n 18000s along with the detailed narratives!
Pete at 4:48 PM yesterday: Received and responded to your Emails – thanx!
Quite a best of a machine, that GT3 – and not that attractive to the eye, in my opinion. But performance over appearance, eh Youbetchaboots!
Can’t offer anything definitive regarding the right-of-way running north ‘n south by the Arch other than to say quite a bit of it was within short tunnels – emerging from place to place for spot viewing. Haven’t been down there in decades, so any information I have is truly dated. Yes, St. Louis at one time had a most interesting network of yards, rights-of-way and rail activity. Most of the passenger ops had ceased before my arrival in 1977, other than Amtrak. Back then a very deserted and run down Union Station was still the terminus for Amtrak. It wasn’t long thereafter when they departed for a series of trailers in a most unpleasant surrounding for their “station.”
The structures were supposed to be temporary – but they remained there until last year! The plight of Amtrak is well chronicled and there’s no need to resurrect it here. Suffice it to say they simply never received the public support along with Congressional budgetary dollars to rebuild infrastructure. Just didn’t happen.
The building Amtrak currently uses for a station is in close proximity to the “trailers,” and it was designed and built to be a maintenance facility. It is much more hospitable to the traveling public, but hardly a first rate station in a city trying to bill itself as – well, more than it is.
One day we will see a multi-modal station – plans have been approved, reapproved, discussed ad nauseam, and kicked around so much that I honestly cannot tell you when – if ever – this thing will be constructed. I recall being told that it’s start up was “imminent” and that was at least 10 years ago.
Now, with the St. Louis Union Station only a “name,” as it is a shopping mall and “attraction” for the upscale tourists (ha!), we see that the few remaining rails into it may very will be torn up, as current management has other plans for the area. Pity, eh I could go on and on about this – but it’s rather frustrating. RIP.
Thanx for those loco pix! Did you know that there is a small city in Nova Scotia named Truro It once was a most active rail hub for passenger service, but today has been relegated to handle the east and west bound VIA Rail “Ocean” on their 6 out of 7 day operations.
Lars at 5:02 PM and 6:56 PM yesterday: It was a deliberate decision to not ask for a stand-in
A blast from aways back ( pg 163 ) to give us an early kick off to encore satrurday
trolleyboy wrote:a small tidbit possibly another installment of classic juice. oh heck why not. Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR The CNR had dabled in electrification over the years, Mostly in the pre-CNR days. The Grand Trunk on several occations dabbled with traction usually with predictable results ( they gave up and dieselized ) The GTR's first flirtation was in 1902. They purchased a small radial line the Hamilton,Grimsby & Beamsville.They did this to keep this interurban out of arch rival Canadian Northerns Hands who themselves were starting to amass a lot of samller lines electric and otherwise. (The irony of this of coarse is that both these roads failed and were the main components of the Candain National Railway.) Three years later GTW sold this electric line to Cataract Power( ontario based electricity and traction company. The Brantford and hamilton was part of this group as well ) after losing interest in traction. The very next year 1906 GTW purchased the Montreal and Southern Counties which had been incorporated in 1897 but has yet to start construction. The affair wasen't rushed no construction began really until 1909, even then it was slow and steady. The MS&C never reached it's intended target of Sherbrooke by 1925 when construction officially ended they were a 58 mile interurban. Sevice was discontinued in 1956. The only mainline electrification Grand Trunk ever undertook wasthe St Clair Tunnel, this was only done after two fatal incidents with crews of steam engines asphyxiating in the 6,032 foot tunnel under the river.The tunnel was built in 1891 but even though desugbners said that electricity ws the way to do it the process was expensive so GT opted for athrasite burning 0-10-0's and a set of fans.The first accident occured in 1897 the second in 1904. So the electrification finally took place in1906 completeing in 1908. A four mile electric zone !The tunnel bed was lowered by CN in 1941 to increas capacity and lesson ferrry trips of frieght cars it was formally dieselized in 1958. Of coarse the whole tunnel was replaced in 1992. The last major attempt at electrification by the Grand Trunk occured in BC. This was to be part of the Ill fated Grand Trunk Pacific.The Line between Prince Rupert BC and Fort Frasor was to be electrified do to the tunnels. The line started in 1905 with the last spike of the GTP layed in manitoba in 1914. Do to the lack of money the electrified portion never occured, Blasting of tunnels and some daylighting of the line was done instead at a far greater cost.The GTR bankrupsy of 1920 occured shortly after this second transcontinintal line was completed. CNR's other predessesor the Canadian Northern also flirted with electrification.Most notably they began construction in 1912 the Mount Royal Tunnel in Montreal even though the co was racked with debt. The CnoR felt that the tunnel has to be built because they had pooraccess to the city centre, as their terminus ws Morell street well east of downtown wher rivals CPR and GTW were located.With a population of 600,000 and being Canada's major seaport at the time the CnoR felt that money troubles or not they needed the access to Montreal to survive. The new twin tracked tunnel ( under the city and the competition )was 3.3 miles and lentgh and was to be electrified.The electrification was to extend several miles beyond the tunnel . At Portal Heights the west side of the tunnel a station linkinf th CnoR with the CPR running above was to be built. A model town called Mount Royal was built to feed passengers to this new line.It ws laid out neatly with wide roads high quality houses etc and the roads wer paved with the stone excavated from the tunnel.The idea was that the inhabitants iof this new town werea ten minute ride to downtown via the CnoR's new electric line. The project looked good on paper but by the time it was completed in 1918 the CnoR no longer existed. IT had been combined with tthe Candian government railways to form the new National Transcontinental and Inter colonial Railway. which in 1921 was joined by the defunct GTW/GTP to become the Candian National Railway. What happened to the Mount Royal line? It's still around CN actually extended it Catenery and all to St Eustache & Deux montagnes. This comuter line is still operatied under the wire by CN for the Montreal transit authority ! The national harbour board electrics from the Port itself and the NS&T in Ontario wer also members of the Candian Northerns elctric lines and thus became CN property in 1921. The Mount Royal tunnel was demolished in 1943 and replaced byCN's Central station now the location od Place Boneventure. in 1964 montreal's subway system connect her with th electric MU coaches and Via trains, At only 28 miles this electrified route certainly isn't the most impressive but it still operates today. heres how the rest of the CN electric lines panned out. Toronto & Eastern ( ex CnoR ) aquired in 1917 abandined in 1924 Chatham Walaceburg & Lake erie ( ex CnoR )aquired 1917 abandoned 1930 Toronto Suburban Railway( ex Cnor ) aquired 1917 abandoned 1931 * Shawinigan Falls Terminal RY ( ex GT joint CPR ) aquired 1950 dieselized 1958 Montreal & Southern Counties( ex GT ) service ended 1956 St Clair tunnel line ( ex GT )aquired 1920 dieselized 1958 largly unused 1992 Quebec Railway Light & Power Co (interurban ) Purchased 1951 dieselized 1959 Niagara st cath & Toronto ( ex CnoR )purchased 1917 dieselized 1960 Fort William hump yard trolley built 1924 discontinued early 60's Cornwall Street Railway- bought and dieselized in 1971( freight only after 1953 ) London and Port Stanley bought 1966 alrady dieselized-largly abandoned Mount Royal Tunnel Line(ex CnoR ) began 1918 operated for STCUM since july 1 1982 Rob a Post script. You will note that I marked the Toronto Suburban Railway with a *This is becaus eit's not totally abandoned. The TSR was an interurban joining Toronto and Guelph on.The TTC still operates some of it's city trackage. In 1954 our museum's founding fathers bought up the portion of the line that we run on. we had to completely relay the track and catenery but I supose we do occupy the original ROW so that at least is note worthy.
Here's a couiple random photo's to help Nick contonue the good fight with his sanbox soldiers. LOL
Thes are shots in a major renactment of the recapture of Fort George ( Niagara on The Lake On ) from last summer. The redcoats that the renactors are protraying are the Candian fencilbes the Glengary Light, and the 41st reg of foot along with some six nations wariors. We had about 300 renactors out for this weekend, they cane from all over NY state and Ontario.
I'm in there somewhere hidden by black powder smoke !
Good evening Leon , I'll have a nice frosty Keith's and here's a couple extra bucks for a round for anyone else who is interested.
Lars-Hmm Peso's I don't think so , I have no need of Mexican money won't travel down there, I'm just not a sun and heat kinda guy. Great info on the ole GG1 , anything electric is AOK in my books to be sure.
Tom-Yes I suppose that we were concidered "colonists" as well,but once the bif influx of UEL's ( my family included ) came into the country we were treated alot differently, still technically a colony but we had far more self control and governance than was allowed below the 49th prior to the revilution, ( lessons learned I would surmise ) I prefer the green coat of the Glengary light Infantry though ( one of 5 regular Army regements raised in Canada to counteract te British Army's low numbers due to the War with Napolean.The Glengary's the 100th or Nova Scotia Regiment, The Royal Newfoundland Regiment,The 104th or New Brunswick Regiment, and the Canadian Fencible Light Infantry were all raised in the "colonies" of Upper and Lower Canada, Nova Scotia PEI and New Brunswick and NFLD between 1805-1810 all were trained and payed as regular regiments of the British army but had 90% Canadian Officers and ranks. Thes 5 regiments were the main force of the "british" forces involved in the first two full yeasr of the War of 1812.Approx 3000 men strong. small detachments of the British 41st 49th and 84th regiments rounded out the regular forces roughly 1500 more men. The five Canadian regiments were disbanded in 1816. Napolean was beaten the War of 1812 was over and the regular British army resumed it's garrison duties in the Canada's until 1857 when they were pulled out.I know more usless non train stuff but oh well interesting to me at any rate.The info on the eads bridge was simpy amazing. Just goes to show what kind of craftmenship is now most likley sadly lost to our presant day generations.
Nick-great photo's there sir. I recieved your email responce re that tattoo. All I can say is don't do anything rash
DL- Nice recounting of that train ride.One doesn't see many railways at least on this side of the pond still allowing cabrides. I imagine that today that wouldn't happen in your neck of the woods either.For me foe what it's worth loose tea or nothing. As my grandmother always said, "tea bags are just the dust drags left over from the loose leaf tea making process " I tend to aggree. Hard to get a good cup from a bag of any manufacture.The war in the Gulf of St lawrence was indeed quite a shock to the native Quebecois who were decidedly against our involvment in WW2. Sinkings near Montreal didn't help.
Pete-It is sad to say that so few young are taking up the restoration end of things. I have noted though that we seem to be attracting more and more young visiters to the museum. We have instsituted somne schoolage programs in hopes of hooking the next generation. Time will tell. At least the number of static musuems are still increasing, at least preservation still happens, the getting things rebuilt to running status is more difficult.
James-I'm still looking forward to your expose on the Lil Joes on Sunday should be a treat for all.
DL
G'day Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
Leon, I'll take a JD on the rocks now that my pizza dinner is finished. Mighty good stuff!
I see that Pete dropped in just about the time of my last post - good to see ya, mate! Nice pix and conversation too.
Finally got my post out over on Tom's other thread - been a nightmare trying to stay connected. Really don't know what's going on.
All the talk about electric loco's brings to mind my favorite (and Tom's too!) the Pennsylvania RRs GG1:
and from wikipedia.com:
Power type Straight electric Designer Raymond Loewy Build date 1934 – 1943 Total production 139 AAR wheel arr. 2-C+C-2 Gauge 4 ft 81/2 in (1435 mm) Length 79 ft 6 in (24.23 m) Total weight 477,000 lb (216,000 kg) Electric system 11,000 V AC, 25 Hz Collection method dual pantograph Engine type quill drive Top speed 100 mph (160 km/h) (passenger)90 mph (144 km/h) (freight) Power output 4,620 hp (3,660 kW) Tractive effort 70,700 lbf (314 kN) Career Pennsylvania Railroad, Penn Central, Amtrak, New Jersey Transit Class GG1 Locale Northeast United States Disposition most scrapped, several preserved in static display around the U.S. Technical information The GG1s were large locomotives, 79 ft 6 in (24.23 m) long and weighing 477,000 lb (216,000 kg). The main body was a single unit formed as a bridge-truss framework and clad in welded steel plate. The driving cabs were set up high about a third of the way along the locomotive from each end for greater crew safety in an accident. A narrower section of nose in front of the cab windows enabled view forward, although the nose remained full height to carry the current-collection pantographs. The bodywork as a whole was smoothly rounded. This was mounted upon two great cast steel locomotive frames linked by a hinge at the locomotive's middle which allowed side-to-side movement. Six driving wheels (three axles) were fitted towards the center of the locomotive on each truck (twelve in total) and a four-wheeled, unpowered guiding truck was mounted toward each end. In the Whyte notation for steam locomotives, each frame comprised a 4-6-0 locomotive; in the PRR's classification system, 4-6-0s were class "G". The GG1 consisted of two such locomotive frames mounted back to back, so it was classified GG—4-6-0+0-6-4. This arrangement is called 2-C+C-2 in AAR wheel arrangement notation. Each driven axle was powered by two 385 hp (305 kW) GEA-627-A1 traction motors mounted above and to either side of the axle. Drive was through a reduction gear and a quill drive assembly. While the famous industrial designer Raymond Loewy did not design the shape of the GG1 electric locomotives, he did improve their looks by recommending a smooth welded construction be used (rather than riveted construction), along with a pinstriped paint scheme to highlight their smoothly rounded forms. The real design behind the GG1 came from the New Haven Railroad EP3 electric. The New Haven allowed the PRR to borrow a pair of EP3s for testing, and the PRR was quite impressed with their performance and decided to base the design of its electric locomotive on the EP3. One could easily say the PRR and GG1 fans owe it all to the New Haven for sending two EP3 units to the PRR for testing.[citation needed] The GG1 was designed to run on the standard Pennsylvania Railroad catenary power of 11,000 V AC, 25 Hz. This high voltage was stepped down by a large transformer mounted in the center of the locomotive body for the traction motors, cooling blowers and all other onboard equipment. The locomotive's power was controlled via a tap-switching arrangement; the number of secondary windings in use could be varied, thus adjusting the output voltage. The units were rated at 4 LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by LoveDomes on Friday, November 17, 2006 5:02 PM Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar! Ruth my deAH you look simply gorgeous! What's that Tired from being alone. Hmmmmm,. wish I had known THAT was the situation - I'd have rushed on over! I'll take a frosty mug of Piels and a pizza - Italian sausage, thin crust! It's after 5 PM my time and I'm hungry! What a slooooooooow day, especially without our Proprietor watching over things. Really, had I known, perhaps I could've helped out with the posts. Then again, who is around to read 'em ???? The Catch 22 of it all, huh Really a changed place these past several weeks now that Doug is absorbed in setting up his new digs, recovering from injuries, and working those two jobs. All very legitimate and understandable reasons not to be here, but missed still the same. Couple that with the not-so-regular appearances of some of the guys we've gotten spoiled by routine visits and we have doldrums from time to time. Daylight hours are really getting a bit difficult to justify running the utilities. <not good> We'll be having a house full this Thanksgiving, which is always good. The special thing about this time of year is the family togetherness, which is a big thing with us. All of the "squareheads" show up and things get a bit loud, but what the H - there's no harm, therefore no foul, as the saying goes. Don't know about anyone else, but I spent over an hour today trying to log on the forums. No problem getting on line, but when it came to logging in, well that was another story. To compound matters, I couldn't load those Urls from DL either. So, whatever the problem, it is messing with ME! <grrrrrrr> That's a good thought, Cap'n Tom - Ladies Nite at the bar. I'm all for it. Wouldn't have to be anything more than perhaps an hour for the gals to drop off a few lines and stick around for some responses. Then they'll find out why we enjoy this place so much. How bad can that be It's not as if they have to worry about us being out of the house - or driving home - or . . . . . good idea! My guess is we're going to have a slow week with the holiday coming up and perhaps some taking off for other places (as CM3 I'm NOT Shane! has done). This is the week when we need to rely on our Canadian and UK friends to keep this on the move! A round on me, Ruth and one more in the tankard, then I'm going over to my favorite booth to devour my pizza! Have a great weekend one and all! Until the next time! Lars pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Friday, November 17, 2006 4:48 PM Hi Tom and all. I'll start with a Kimberley Mild and can you put me down for the Steak .n.Fries for later please RUTH. Enjoyed the links as usual MIKE. great pics and info on the Eads Bridge . That is a really good colour poster showing the great amount of river traffic on the Mississippi. DL I tried for quite a while yesterday to find some info and pics on 18000 and 18100 on the net as well. Many thanks for the links. It is a shame that E2001 lasted as late as 1972 and still was not saved. I believe that a member of all the AC loco classes have been saved, including 84001 which I think is the only main line example of the once massive company, The North British Locomotive Co's. modern traction to be saved.A great company who could not make a succesful change from steam to diesel/electric locomotive building. To complete the British Gas Turbines here is a link to the English Electric Co's GT3. http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0923000018018 http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/oddities/gt3.htm. I did not know that GT3 was first started construction at the Rugby Works of the English Eletric Co. until I read the link.. It is an interesting design as the gas turbine loco resembles a steam loco in appearence. Very interesting info on the APT-E from someone who was involved with it.. TOM When we visited to St louis we walked along the river to Eads Bridge, on the way we heard a train but could not work out where is was coming from, it must have been on the line that passed under the bridge as shown in MIKE's links. I have had a look at my railroad atlas for Missouri and it shows the line as owned by the Terminal Railroad Association of St Louis(TRRA) it also seems to show that these tracks were moved slightly away from the river at some time. On the Eads bridge it says it was double decked with the East St Louis& Suburban Railroad and East St Louis Columbia & Waterloo Railroad, electric lines on the top deck of the bridge and the TRRA on the lower. The amount of railroad yards on the Illinois side of the river in the area of Eads bridge which have gone is amazing. Anyway I had better put the atlas away or I will be looking at it all night, it is a great book.. Looking forward to all the tales at the Rendezvous. As it seems a bit quite at the bar I will post some pics of the two Great Western Double-framers at the Bluebell Railway in October. The leading loco is #3440 City of Truro which is said to be the first recorded instance of a British loco attaining over 100 MPH when it was timed at 102.3 MPH in May 1904, although the timing has been argued over ever since, it was done by the very respected train timer Charles Rous Martin. Coincidently the AVERAGE speed of the Pendelino on the recent Glasgow to London non-stop special was 102.3. The trailing loco was a Dukedog The class was introduced as late as 1936 although they were rebuilts with a Duke class boiler and a Bulldog frame. They were used on the Cambrian Railways in Wales on track where there was a weight limit. When built they were named after Earls, but the august Gentlemen objected to their names being on such old fashion locos, so the names were transferred to brand new Castle class 4-6-0 locos. PETE. DL - UK Member sinceAugust 2006 280 posts Posted by DL - UK on Friday, November 17, 2006 11:45 AM Hello there Tom I think I’ll leave that red coat well alone for the moment given your advice! Following on from CM3’s recommendation – I’ll have an Electroburger please, with Pizza on the side! Mike – thanks for those Mars flying boat pics and further links – I was not aware there was such a wide range of designs of US flying boat. Reading that link should we assume two of the planes still exist in their fire fighting role? My uncle was trained in Canada to fly Flying Boats for the RAF and ended up Captain of a Short Sunderland and also flew Catalinas (I think that is what you call a PBY?). CM3 – thanks also for those further reading ideas on the war of independence – I think in fact there were some quite outspoken people here who supported the colonists’ struggle – notable ones were Tom Paine and Josiah Wedgwood (of the pottery fame). Lars – thanks also for your comments! Eric – thanks for your info on the tilting technology – I think the Talgo trains are Spanish in design. I’ve never been to Spain so have not seen them. Pete – I think the RHDR still does those school runs but I’m not 100% certain. Glad to know the Kimberley trip was a success – nice to think the info was of help. Funny thing the internet – today no problem finding info on those classic era experimental GWR Gas Turbines today – couple of good links here with an extract from the info, which will explain why you saw this machine around Rugby I guess: Here’s the stuff on 18100: http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus_18100.html “stipulations were imposed by the BTC in terms of output and projected performance, which in broad terms equated to the requirement to haul an 18 coach train weighing around 650 tons over the Devon banks. “Between 1952 and 1958 the loco worked successfully with few major problems and clocked up some 450,000 miles prior to being withdrawn from service and stored at Swindon Works. After a short period at Swindon No. 18100 was sent to Metropolitan-Vickers at their Bowsfield Works near Stockton-on-Tees where it was converted into the prototype 25kV electric locomotive, No. E1000 (E2001). “No. E1000 (E2001 ) did not last long on the LMR once the production fleets were in service. By 1962 the loco was at the Rugby Testing Station being used for instructional purposes. After being dumped at various locations around the Midlands No. E2001 was eventually returned to Rugby from where it was sold to J. Cashmore of Great Bridge for scrap in November 1972, being finally dismantled in January 1973.” And here on 18000 http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus_18000.html “Britain's first main-line gas-turbine loco was ordered by the Great Western Railway in June 1940 from the Swiss company of Brown Boveri. Although ordered some eight years prior to Nationalisation (1948), No. 18000 was not delivered until 1949. “In late June, No. 18000 was deployed on performance tests over the arduous Devon Banks which identified the locomotive was unable to haul a 350 ton train over the 1:42 Hemerdon incline from a standing start without assistance, the maximum weight that could be satisfactorily moved was 297 tons. Although a number of technical failures befell the loco in the autumn of 1950, the machine was kept in service, normally working the Paddington-Bristol/West of England route. In December 1960 it was returned to Swindon Works and the decision taken to withdraw it from any further testing. Between January 1961 and January 1964 it lay at Swindon Works; however, in late 1963 No. 18000 was sold back to its builders in Switzerland, During the early 1990s a number of BR engineers and enthusiasts set about the task of bringing it back to the UK, and in 1994 their efforts came to fruition when it returned by road to Tinsley with sponsorship from the then Railfreight Distribution business. It was later handed over to the private preservation sector and is now on display in its 1950s black livery at The Railway Age, Crewe, in an unworkable condition.” Had an interesting discussion about Gas Turbine with my father out law, as the APT experimental version was of course Gas Turbine, and he was involved with work on that – he said the view of the researchers was that Gas Turbine only really worked to optimum performance when it could run for long periods at high power output, but that in Britain the proximity of major cities and thus the relative frequency of stops (not to mention the need to stop / slow for other services) meant this could not happen in everyday service here – hence they felt gas turbine was not the way to go in the UK. Tom – I’ll have a mild – no doubt the barrel won’t need changing with your skills about! Good wishes to all DL siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 17, 2006 8:00 AM G’day Gents! Friday at the Tavern by the Tracks and time for a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee along with some pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery. If you’re still hungry, go for a selection from our Menu Board of <light> or <traditional> breakfasts! A bit of activity last evening, so a few acknowledgments are in order: Mike at 8:35 PM: Knew all about FIGMO, however, we had a slightly different definition in my outfit and era. I think you need a hobby – while The Day the Earth Stood Still was and remains one of my favorites, to chronicle the ‘speak,’ well that’s a bit too much for Moi! <grin> The URLs show some interesting views of the Eads bridge. FYI, Amtrak no longer traverses it, whereas MetroLink (light-rail) does. Not being interested in collegiate football, all I can say is “Go Irish!” Guess I heard that somewhere before. Interesting that this subject was brought up, for I had lunch with a friend of mine on Wednesday, who told me all about his trip to South Bend, Indiana for a game and a couple of nights “away.” He and a buddy (both Irish Catholic cops) apparently had a great time. Lord knows who won the game! <grin> I love to jab him a bit about how many Irish kids are playing for them these days. I gotta temper it with some levity in that this guy could and can rip a good sized phone book in half. <ooooooooh> Pete at 10:20 PM: Good to see ya and always appreciate the inclusiveness of your Posts! Brought to mind my failing to comment on the Fells loco from DLs Post. Not the best looking machine, but I can see where the design has been used – with a bit more attention to design – in other locos, especially electrics. When I first moved to this area in 1977, there were times when I’d see some Amtrak trains crossing the Eads bridge. They used to run the right-of-way alongside the Arch and there were some great vantage points to view ‘em. I used to work about ¾ mile from that spot and it was always a good excuse for my daily exercise out from behind the desk to walk down to the Arch and back. I’m sure my guys loved it – probably wished I’d hop aboard for a loooooooong trip (one way)! Kodiak, Alaska was one of the most intriguing places I’ve ever been. Unfortunately, I was just a kid – never fully appreciated what was unfolding before me until way after I returned to the lower 48. Isn’t that the way Having turned 21 up there and working in the environment of some rather tough characters, it surely wasn’t for the “candy a- -“ type. <oooooh> Yes, there will be some stories to share come this May at our Rendezvous! And, should you return to Boston, perhaps you’ll be able to take Amtrak north to Portland, Maine. That route has been reinstated, and offers some fine scenery along the way. Portland is one of my favorite places to see and I think you and the Mrs. would enjoy it. Eric at 1:04 AM today: Always appreciate having you stop by, no matter what the hour. But then, it is a tad earlier where you are, eh Anway – glad to know the Mrs. got the greetings! Perhaps we can organize an evening where all of our ladies get a chance to exchange some info here at the Tavern by the Tracks. Hmmmmmm – have to give that idea some thought. I really knew the reason for the helmets – but my slant on it is far more entertaining! When it comes to looks, I agree with you about the EMDs – best one is the EMD E8 – just love ‘em. Thanx for the info on the Talgo – I’m sure there’s lots more on this subject and since we’re a Classic Trains ‘discussion group,’ the more insights we get, the better, eh Amtrak now crosses the Mississippi on a bridge just to the south of highway 40 and more in line with the right-of-way at the station (if you can call it that!). I believe this particular bridge was once owned by the Terminal Railway Association. May still be – something to research. <groan> Happy Railroading! Siberianmo EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Friday, November 17, 2006 1:04 AM Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!! Early morning that is. Boris, a ham sandwich please! Yes, yes, coffee. Thank you! First of all, my wife thanks you for all happy birthday wishes! I let her read them all! She had a happy one. Quite a few interesting posts! Tom – The steel helmets in the Air Force? Well, one is supposed to be able to defend the mobile radar station against the mean enemy in case they would come too close. I think EMD’s F-units are better looking than Baldwin’s DR-12-8-1500/2 Centipede and Baldwin DR-4-4-15 Sharknose. I can’t recall I saw the Eads Bridge when we were in St. Louis with the X2000. I can see the Arch in the background. Is that bridge close to the one Amtrak is using? I guess I will learn in May! Interesting article! The Talgo tilt system is different comparing with Pendolino, X2000 and others. It is not active. In other words, there is no machinery or pumps to tilt the cars. The tilt is “caused” by the centrifugal forces when the train is running through the curves. Pete – Boat trains were run even in Sweden close to where I used to live. I’ll see if I can find some pictures for the upcoming theme day. DL – There are some similarities between the tilt system in APT and X2000. I don’t know that much about the APT, but will research my papers. Lars – I will put togehter someting about the engineering side of the X2000. Hopefully it will be done Saturday after Thanksgiving. Mike – A bunch of Electrics! Some good looking and some strange looking. But more important than the looks is the power. I have to come back this weekend to read the history of Eads Bridge. Thanks for the links! Nick – Ah, that explains why I couldn’t find that locomotive when I checked W.H.R’s roster. Most likely it did not belong to W.H.R. I actually went to the Tåg-150 celebrations in Sweden last September. Very interesting and it was nice to meet some people I haven’t seen for many years. Rob – I will check that link for books you provided this weekend. CM3 – “Electroburger”! That sounds good! Thanks for the info on those electrics! See if I can find a picture of a S motor. Happy Thanksgiving! James – I agree, most F-units are hard to tell apart. But they are good looking! Eric pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:20 PM Hi Tom and all. Late in today so I had better get a round LEON and I am about ready for NICK's Fish 'N'Chips not forgetting the mushy peas. MIKE Great set of color pics of the Electric Locos, in the first one I think the North Shore line cars weighed more than the 3 ton street sign allowed. And many thanks CM3 for the great info on the electrics, Like Tom I hope you can do a boat train piece. I agree those Hornblower books are a great read.Have a great Thanksgiving. NICK Russell looked the part for sure. The Romney Hythe & Dymchurch certainly has an impressive loco collection. I read a few years ago the railway ran a morning and evening train service for the local school in term time. I do not know if this train still runs, I think it was mainly diesel hauled. Thanks for the Llanelli park info. Many years ago on a railtour of some of the South Wales branch lines we had one that left the main line at Llanelli past the Rugby ground and up a valley to,if I remember correctly, Rose Heywood colliery. Those South Wales colliery branches were some great trips in the 70s with a steep climb up the valleys, many of the tours were in the old Diesel Multiple Units. ROB Great to see you in. As you say there does not seem to be many of the youngsters getting involved in preservation which is a great pity, it makes one wonder about the future of some of the preserved lines and museums. Glad you liked the Boat Train idea.. DL. First Alan says many thanks for the info on Kimberley, He found the old stations and had a great day he says he will send me the details when he has fully recovered. . Great link to the Fell diesel. I did not get to see it. I think it mainy worked on the Midland main line, it certainly was a complex machine. I recall reading that it was a strange sounding machine when it was on the move at speed. As it said in the link. Paxmans went on to built the successful HST diesel engine. As to the Gas Turbine, a while back now there was some very good posts of the Gas Turbines that were in North America at Our Place. The Union Pacific had some large locos of this type. Also in the Fall Issue of Classic Trains 2004 the turbines were featured. As too 18000 I believe it is still at the Crewe Heritage Centre , but I have not read anything about it for a while. Your post reminded me of another gas turbine that was in service with the Western Region of BR. This was built by Metro-Vickers of the UK after a rather short career with the WR where it got the nickname Kerosine Castle, it was rebuilt in 1958 as the pioneer AC electric loco for the London to Manchester/Liverpool electrification scheme. I have looked for a photo and details of E1000 later renumbered E2001 but have had no luck. as far as I know this was the first AC main line loco in the UK.I do not know if E2001 was used in passenger service or was just a test loco. From 1959 the production classes of AC locos for the electrification the AL1 to AL5 later 81to 85 classes were introduced. I never saw E2001 working but she was stored along side the steam shed at Rugby for quite a while in the mid 60s before going for scrap another unique modern traction loco lost. Enjoyed the account of the APT trip. LARS I will get the tee shirt if I see one again . Really hope I can get to that area again, we stayed in Providence RI. Next time I shall take a trip from there to Washington by Amtrak all being well.I thought the Green Line subway cars in Boston had some real character, and yes I walked the Freedom Trail, Old ironsides is very impressive. JAMES Kansas City was where I first saw my US loco. They have done a real fine job on the Union Station there putting it back to its former glory. Last Christmas they had a model railroad in the main hall, and there is a railroad museum as part of the station now. TOM and I have travelled there on Amtrak but owing to late running on the last couple of trips, we have not be able to view the new features. The frieght tracks running along side the station seem very busy with BNSF and UP being the most seen when I have been there.. TOM I think we are going to have to get a keg of some good ale so you can show us your keg tapping skills at the rendezvous.. Greatly enjoying the experiences from the north, I bet there are some great tales from that bar in Kodiak. On the subject of beer, yes I thought the amber beer at the 1847 was very good, but as you say the glasses were rather small, I did think about asking if they did pitchers altough the bride would have disowned me.. I have seen and been under the Eads bridge at Lechlade's landing in St Louis, I shall look forward to travelling over it in May. YES as you say the engineers who built this and the other great bridges could not have known the size and weight of the freight cars of today but their bridges carry these tonnages with little or none modification to their original structure. A to them all. I will e-mail you tomorrow Tom. LEON let me get a round in and I'll have a Holden's Special while I look at MIKE's links. Pete. wanswheel Member sinceNovember 2005 4,190 posts Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:35 PM Hi Tom and everyone a round for the house. Gort was a robot from outer space in The Day The Earth Stood Still. Michael Rennie instructed Patricia Neal to tell Gort, "Klaatu barada nikto." Figmo is army slang for "finally" I got my orders. CM3, Happy Thanksgiving already? OK, have a wonderful time. I think these are S motors, ALCO-GE 2-D-2 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nyc132.jpg http://alfredbarten.com/SM_133MHr.JPG Incidentally, Notre Dame needs Ohio State to absolutely pummel Michigan. Or vice versa, we're not particular. If one of the top 2 teams plays so awfully as to drop to number 3 in the subjective minds of the poll voters, Notre Dame's chance for a national championship are enhanced, if they can beat USC next week, and please God, no Army upset! James, here's a World War II era Milwaukee Road ad http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/T/T29/T2965-150dpi.jpeg Eads Bridge http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/color/572226cv.jpg http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/photos/099459pv.jpg http://www.gatewaynmra.org/articles/photos/Brad-West04.jpg http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppmsca/08900/08973v.jpg Data about James Eads (The second set of URLs is to the same pages) http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/010.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/011.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/012.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/013.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/014.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/015.gif TIF Enlarged http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/010.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/011.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/012.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/013.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/014.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/015.tif Mike siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:22 PM G’day Gents! CM3 at 12:30 PM today: Mixed emotions – happy to see ya, but sad to learn that we won’t be seeing ya again for over a week. I really did see the NYC RDC, however, for whatever the reason – made no comment. For shame on the guy who professes to love those machines. <scowl> Hope you’ll have time to prepare something on the NH “boat trains” – it would be a nice complement indeed for the Theme for the Day on the Tuesday following U.S. Thanksgiving. Not trying to be cute about this, however – when it comes to training, perhaps the question should be: Why do things go wrong at the worst of times Aboard ship, whether in port or at sea, the daily drills were meant to keep us razor sharp for all eventualities. Kinda depends on what one is training for. If it’s to keep a business operating at peak performance – that’s one thing. If it’s to save lives and property, that’s quite another. But then, you already knew that, eh Have a great family Thanksgiving and we’ll be looking forward to your return! By the by, thanx for the quarters and round! Lars at 3:00 PM today: Mixed emotions regarding your suggestion on the ratings. Sure, it would be nice to build our Threads back to where they were – however, it only brings attention to them in a way that surely attracts “that element” we’re not interested in. Better way to handle it is to keep pressing the Forums Manager to get rid of the blasted thing (ratings system). Just my thoughts . . . . Surely hope that when springtime rolls around you’ll be one of the attendees at our 2nd Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis! St. Louis is merely a shadow of what it once was insofar as active railroading is concerned – especially passenger operations. However, as mentioned in my Emails, there will be plenty to keep us occupied and happy! Yes, I picked up on the opening day for the Cards. Good choice with the Mets –but not quite as meaningful as it used to be. When they were both in the eastern division, it meant more, dontchathink Tix – yeah, sure – I’ll get ‘em and you will come! <grin> Tapping a beer keg goes way back in my life’s experiences, even before I tended bar up in Kodiak, Alaska over 46 years ago! I’m old . . . That particular gin mill in St. Johns was a place many of us used to frequent when the ship pulled in. We hardly ever had an overnight there – so when the Skipper made a mistake and let the pirates hit the beach – we’d head for that particular joint. Darts, pool – the whole nine yards. They treated us well, we had fun, they made money, it was a win-win. Good memories with those Newfies. Sorry, but I’m no help with the tilt train discussion, but I am aware of the Amtrak Talgo on the west coast. Would like to learn a bit more about the use and technology of it all. Any takers James at 4:38 PM today: The Eads bridge is a structure that has outlived many and most probably me too. What is amazing about any bridge like that is not so much that it was constructed, but WHEN and HOW. That technology has held up to this day and has a life expectancy for many more decades. I find that intriguing. Glad you enjoyed it. Okay guyz, I think I’m done for the day. Leon will take care of your needs – and perhaps Chief Chef Nick will come out of the kitchen for a bit of dialogue. One can never tell! Ring the bell, Boris and let’s have a drink on the Proprietor (that’s me!!) Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:38 PM G-day Tom and all present. Ruth- Time for some Fish n' chips along with a splash of vanilla in the coffee, Please! I can smell it allready! Tom- I just want to start off what you said about 20-fingers Al. I know I didn't post anything over here yesterday. The reason was..I have been playing catch-up around the house-hold, school and at work, and of course, here at "Our Place" After the Train show, it set me back a little. So I only had a few minutes to spend around the classic trains forums. So I spent that 10 or so minutes I had and posted at the classical trains thread. I think it needed a boost! But, if you think that it might happen often..It won't. Maybe a couple times per year. The few days after I've been out of town.. are a little more busier than most, but I have finally gotten through those days of catch-up, so it should be a bit easier. BTW: thanks for the help on contacting the manager. I have been noticing the rating system and to tell you the truth it is a bit weird. And the article on the Eads bridge was very cool. That is one large, very nice looking bridge. Thanks. Mike- I really liked your photo contribution. The old time truck sitting on that Piggyback trailer was a very cool find. That goes to show that intermodal has been around for quite some time. BTW: You're Milwaukee road photos did not go unnoticed. I always like to see a little of the Milwaukee road in there somewhere. Thanks Pete- Yes, it sure was a busy weekend, but it was fun. I have heard of the Kansas show just never been down to it before. But I've heard that it isn't the only reason people go down there. Trains! Railfanning I've heard, is a dream down there. There are so many trains that come through you can't stop taking pictures. Eric- Thank youfor clearing up the F-unit problem I had. For some reason F-units are hard to tell apart for me, except for a few that are obvious, like the FTs and F9 and F7. Any other F-unit I have a hard time telling what they are. Thanks. Rob- Yes, I'm glad I'm back also. I Missed posting around here. But thanks for the comments on the photos I posted. Appreciate it. Well I'm a bit sad that I didn't get to post pics yesterday, but life goes on. I will next Wednesday! Happy railroading James The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by LoveDomes on Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:00 PM Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!Ruth my deAH I'd like a frosty stein of Schaefer if you please and slide those snacks down my way, wudja! Cap'n Tom I'm really surprised that you didn't jump all over that shot of the hidden NYC RDC in MeisterMonsterMike's Url. <grin> There it was, just waiting for recognition. Leave it to CM3 I'm NOT Shane! to pluck it out. So, our West Virginia friend is off 'n running into the northern latitudes, huh And getting in some railroading while the Mrs. is doing other things. Sweet! <grin> Happy Turkey Day to you 'n yours too! Like the way the "Boat Trains" are shaping up with the 3-Brits taking charge. Why is it that I'm seeing red these days I'm going to have to put some serious effort into those U.S. boat trains - especially now that CM3 has mentioned the NH ran one. Know for sure the west coast had 'em . . . Ya know, if the guys want to try and get our "ratings" back up to close to where they were - just rate these two threads with 5-stars. That should put a dent into what the JOs did. Would much rather just have them scrapped. But it doesn't appear as if that is going to happen. Think about it.That Eads bridge looks quite interesting and also intriguing. The engineering of past years - heck, centuries, still holds to this day. How many times to we fall into the trap of thinking that only the "things" in present times have any credibility? Really! New York City is chock full of structures built long, long ago and still holding up well. Will be looking forward to the crossing of the Eads aboard that MetroLink out there, if that is all goes well for my planned trip for the rendezvous in St. Looooooooo. Hey! Didjasee that the Mets will be opening up the 2007 season out your way Season starts for them on April Fool's Day. Don't like the sound of that! See if you can scam some tix, and I'll meetcha at the gate! <grin>So, Nick plays in the sandbox with toy soldiers and creatures from other places (dimensions)! Always thought so!!<grin> Like those soldiers you came up with, Tom - and we KNOW who they are aiming at. Lobsters! <grin> And by the way, we enjoy the Horatio Hornblower series in my house too. The books are great reading as well; had 'em with me on more than one sea tour.Man oh man, if you really know the rudimentaries of tapping a keg, you're a valuable guy in some of the taverns I (used to) frequent. That's an art, and something not too many people have a clue about. Bet those Newfies were scratching their collective heads after that one! <grin> St. Johns was a port to remember - but not nearly as often as you put in.Pete - next time you're in Bahston - fetch me a t-shirt! Love it - XXL for me, tho . . . .Did Mike get his fingers caught between the keys or is he trying to send us a cryptic message Rob, I'm going to have to figure out a new way to remunerate you for your "services" here at the bar. Your schedule is not in line with our peak times - so, instead of paying you off in Canadian $$$, from here on out, it's Mexican Pesos - bring the wheel barrow! <grin> Anyway, it's a not good thing when work gets in the way of pleasure. Keep that in mind when you let the boss know how you feel! <grin> Yeah, right . . .Been enjoying the dialogue over those tilt trains between DL 'n Pete. Was thinking maybe Eric would jump in with the engineering side of the X2000. That technology surely could have and should have been put to widespread use here. Only trains I know that are using it are the Talgos out on the west coast, run by Amtrak up the northern coast. Anyone have better info One more, Ruth - then I'm gone! Until the next time! Lars coalminer3 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: WV 1,251 posts Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:30 PM Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. To Our ‘Steamed Proprietor – I have both of the books you mentioned; you’ll enjoy them. The printing quality is good, and, with a magnifying glass you can read the menus, publicity material, etc. that is included as illustrations. A most eclectic and useful set of material re the Eads Bridge. Thank you. I understand the difference between stories and sea stories. The same distinction applies when miners, steelworkers, etc. get together; often with the same preface. I believe we could swap a few (grin). Anyway, I had a friend who went to sleep in a Boston and Maine coach in North Station once and came to in Halifax - to this day he has no idea how he got there. Mike provided some good links. Zoiks – an Electroliner in its native habitat! Never got a chance to ride the North Shore. Those trains had food service; one of the items was an “Electroburger.” Ah, well – the information that occupies otherwise valuable space in our memories. The P motor was a fine picture. They came east after electrification was shut down in Cleveland, and went through several r# on the NYC. IIRC, there were approx. 8 of them. Seven were used in revenue service and one served as a source for parts. I remember seeing them along the Hudson Division with various passenger trains; looked like a house on wheels. If I am not mistaken the picture was taken at Harmon. The building is a dead giveaway. The T bucket is a nice picture as well. This was definitely taken at Harmon as I remember seeing them there. I am sure our ‘steamed proprietor is upset because the motor is obscuring the RDC car (LOL). Now the challenge is to find a shot of an S motor. These were built c. 1905 and were still around in the 1970s. I remember very well seeing them pushing cars around at Grand Central, Mott Haven, and at Harmon. They were the pioneers of NYC electrification. Nick – Sand table? Excellent! The Mentor Fusiliers will, of course, retreat immediately – in case they are attacked from behind. BTW, what shall we use for artillery? DL has some more insightful info. As a native New Englander, I grew up surrounded by, and taking outside visitors to, historic sites. Yes, I did have ancestors who fought in the Revolution. Anyway, the term for those who remained with the Crown, was “Loyalists.” They did not fare very well at the hands of the other side. If you have not read any of the following, see if you can find them. First is David McCullough’s 1776. Next is McCullough’s biography of John Adams. Last is a fairly new one by Edward G. Lengel titled, General George Washington – A Military Life. Lengel is Associate Editor of the George Washington Papers – a monstrous seemingly never-ending project. All of these books are well-written and give balanced portrayals of their respective subjects. And all you thought we did was trains... To whet your appetite, the Old Colony (New Haven) had a Boat Train. It was one of the hottest trains on the railroad. Rob is with us - why is it that the training always takes place whn you have lotsa other stuff to do as well? Will be offline for awhile again as we go north to the heart of NYC country. I am in hopes of getting some material written ahead for future posts, especially as we draw closer to the holiday season. Will also be attending the Western New York RHS Train Show on Saturday; this is always a good one and a chance to see folks I don’t get to visit with all that often. I'm the old guy in the filthy Carhartt jacket. Mom will be watching Michigan and Ohio State; she’ll never know I’m gone. Happy Thanksgiving to all Work safe siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:23 AM G'day Gents! Back for just a minute - Ruth go ahead and take a break, I'll watch the bar. DL - sorry I had to run earlier, Juneau takes priority! <grin> So, where were we Ah yes, your Posts of 8:07 AM & 9:52 AM today: Let's go with the "Boat Trains" theme for Nov 28th. As mentioned in my previous narrative, methinks we'll have sufficient material to make it work. Now train ferries could be worked in for a later time - places like New York harbor, San Francisco bay and assorted other locations had and still have them. Terminology may be different, but the the concept is the same. While hardly the aficionado for the tea drinkers anonymous of north America (TDANA) I think in comparison with those of you in the far eastern Atlantic, we rank a distant 2nd 'n 3rd in volume, capacity and desire when it come to drinking tea! Canda #2 - USA #3. We've visited with those who are absolutely possessed by the "get it right demon" when it comes to the preparation of the stuff in those funny little bags! <grin> I'd rather spend my time tapping a keg or better yet, popping the top on a can of my favorite beverage - Keiths Ale from Halifax! So that's YOUR coat, eh I'd be just a bit wary when putting your arms into the sleeves. Seems that Awk, our flying mascot, has taken a liking to it - red IS his favorite color. He may have "used" the sleeves for a temporary resting place. <oooooh> In all of our travels to Nova Scotia, I'd say the overwhelming number of people we've developed friendships with are NOT native of the province. Funny, but so many are from elsewhere in Canada - several retired in the Halifax area upon conclusion of their military careers. That's what my bride's father did after 30 years with the RCAF. Others, like my late friend in Dartmouth, came over from Scotland with his wife from the London area. And it goes on and on - not that many "natives" and therefore, not too much in terms of local history and heritage. Yes, many from the New England area did indeed head north when our revolution gained steam. Suppose there was a connection in that the place was called "New" <grin> Anyway, depending on who writes the history and how it gets translated (I detest revisionists!!) I too would have been for independence no matter where the soverign power was located. Dumping the tea into the harbor was and remains quite the symbol of rebellion in many texts, in spite of efforts to purge the pages of anything at all smacking of patriotism, nationalistic pride and the like. A topic for 'nother time, eh A true story: Once upon a time . . . . Before getting into this, you DO know the difference between a fairy tale and a "sea" story Fairy tales begin with "Once upon a time," whereas Sea stories start off with, "This is No S--T!!" Anyway, where was I Ah, yes - decades ago while in a bar in St. Johns, Newfoundland, the barkeep served up brew that was so full of foam and airy, that I commented that whoever tapped the keg didn't do it right. He overheard me and challenged me on the spot. We discussed the various methods of tapping beer kegs and wound up with me in the dark, dank basement, showing him how to do it! No joke . . . brew was much better after that - probably because is was on the house! <grin> Probably couldn't do that today if my life depended on it .... ah, youth! On a new note - for those of you planning to attend our 2nd Annual Rendezvous in St. Louis - we'll be crossing the Eads bridge on our MetroLink excursion. Gotta get about the day! Ruth, give 'em what they please, and Boris, ring the bell! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo DL - UK Member sinceAugust 2006 280 posts Posted by DL - UK on Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:52 AM Hi Tom Just calling by to put my fish and chips order in - and to say I can't resist saying that those guys north of the 49th are the loyal colonials (ha ha). No doubt a reward accorded them for keeping the tea out of the harbour (mind you - does not help ensure you can get a decent cup of tea in Canada these days - my recent visit had to end up with me giving instructions on how to brew at the restaurant I was in in Halifax - mind you - and this goes for the US of A too - the credit is due as the staff were only too happy to follow the request - sadly you would not get that sort of courtesy this side of the pond if the position was reversed in all cases!). Actually - on a serious note I was very interested to learn in halifax that there was a strong influx to Nova Scotia of New Englanders who did not want to break with the Crown back during the war of independence. That was something I knew nothing about. Have to say though that had I been there at the time I think I'd have been with the rebels! Anyway - been thinking Tom - if the Boat Train services were not a big thing your way maybe we could include Train Ferries too - I'm sure some of them exist as I recall pictures in Classic Trains not so long ago. Is that my red coat hanging on the hook by the door.... See you later DL siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:47 AM Great Railroad Bridges - #5 Used with permission from Wikipedia.com Eads Bridge The Eads Bridge is a combined road and railway bridge over the Mississippi River at St. Louis, connecting St. Louis and East St. Louis, Illinois. The bridge is named for its designer and builder, Captain James B. Eads. When completed in 1874, the Eads Bridge was the longest bridge in the world, with an overall length of 6,442 feet (1,964 m). The ribbed steel arch spans were considered daring, as was the use of steel as a primary structural material. The steel came from Andrew Carnegie on behalf of the Keystone Steel Company, the first such use of steel in a major bridge project and the beginning of Carnegie's extremely successful career in steel. The Eads Bridge was also the first bridge to be built using cantilever support methods exclusively, and one of the first to make use of pneumatic caissons. The Eads Bridge caissons, still among the deepest ever sunk, were responsible for one of the first major outbreaks of "caisson disease" (also known as "the bends"), and thirteen workers died. The Eads Bridge is still in use, and stands on the St. Louis riverfront between Laclede's Landing on the north and the grounds of the Gateway Arch to the south. Today the road deck has been restored, allowing vehicle and pedestrian traffic to cross the river. The rail deck has been in use for the St. Louis Metrolink light rail line since 1993. A panoramic image of Eads Bridge History The Eads Bridge was constructed as the first link to Illinois over the Mississippi River at St. Louis. The domination of the river trade was no longer as important as before the War between the States, and Chicago was fast gaining as the center of commerce in the West. The Bridge was conceived as a solution to the futile quest to reverse this new found eminence. The Eads Bridge under construction, 1870s The bridge, generated in controversy, was also considered a radical design solution, though the ribbed arch had been a known construction technique for centuries. The triple span, tubular metallic arch construction was supported by two shore abutments and two mid-river piers. Four pairs of arches per span (upper and lower) were set eight feet apart, supporting an upper deck for vehicular traffic and a lower deck for rail traffic. Construction involved varied and confusing design elements and pressures. State and federal charters precluded suspension or draw bridges, or wood construction. There were also constraints on span size and regarding the height above the water line. The location dictated a change from the low Illinois floodplain of the east bank to the high Missouri cliff on the west bank of the river. The bedrock was exceedingly deep. Eads Bridge from East Riverfront MetroLink station, Illinois side (photo by: Larry Pieniazek - GNU Free Doc.) These pressures resulted in a bridge noted as innovative for precision and accuracy of construction and quality control. Utilization of cast chromium steel components is arguably the first use of structural alloy steel in a major building construction. (Though the bridge as actually completed contained large - and unknown - amounts of wrought iron.) Eads argued that the great compressive strength of steel was ideal for use in the upright arch design. This decision resulted from a curious combination of chance and necessity, due to the insufficient strength of alternative material choices. The particular physical difficulties of the site stim Happy Railroading! Siberianmo « First«11121314151617»Last » SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter Submit More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
most scrapped, several preserved in static display around the U.S.
Technical information The GG1s were large locomotives, 79 ft 6 in (24.23 m) long and weighing 477,000 lb (216,000 kg). The main body was a single unit formed as a bridge-truss framework and clad in welded steel plate. The driving cabs were set up high about a third of the way along the locomotive from each end for greater crew safety in an accident. A narrower section of nose in front of the cab windows enabled view forward, although the nose remained full height to carry the current-collection pantographs. The bodywork as a whole was smoothly rounded. This was mounted upon two great cast steel locomotive frames linked by a hinge at the locomotive's middle which allowed side-to-side movement. Six driving wheels (three axles) were fitted towards the center of the locomotive on each truck (twelve in total) and a four-wheeled, unpowered guiding truck was mounted toward each end. In the Whyte notation for steam locomotives, each frame comprised a 4-6-0 locomotive; in the PRR's classification system, 4-6-0s were class "G". The GG1 consisted of two such locomotive frames mounted back to back, so it was classified GG—4-6-0+0-6-4. This arrangement is called 2-C+C-2 in AAR wheel arrangement notation. Each driven axle was powered by two 385 hp (305 kW) GEA-627-A1 traction motors mounted above and to either side of the axle. Drive was through a reduction gear and a quill drive assembly. While the famous industrial designer Raymond Loewy did not design the shape of the GG1 electric locomotives, he did improve their looks by recommending a smooth welded construction be used (rather than riveted construction), along with a pinstriped paint scheme to highlight their smoothly rounded forms. The real design behind the GG1 came from the New Haven Railroad EP3 electric. The New Haven allowed the PRR to borrow a pair of EP3s for testing, and the PRR was quite impressed with their performance and decided to base the design of its electric locomotive on the EP3. One could easily say the PRR and GG1 fans owe it all to the New Haven for sending two EP3 units to the PRR for testing.[citation needed] The GG1 was designed to run on the standard Pennsylvania Railroad catenary power of 11,000 V AC, 25 Hz. This high voltage was stepped down by a large transformer mounted in the center of the locomotive body for the traction motors, cooling blowers and all other onboard equipment. The locomotive's power was controlled via a tap-switching arrangement; the number of secondary windings in use could be varied, thus adjusting the output voltage. The units were rated at 4 LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by LoveDomes on Friday, November 17, 2006 5:02 PM Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar! Ruth my deAH you look simply gorgeous! What's that Tired from being alone. Hmmmmm,. wish I had known THAT was the situation - I'd have rushed on over! I'll take a frosty mug of Piels and a pizza - Italian sausage, thin crust! It's after 5 PM my time and I'm hungry! What a slooooooooow day, especially without our Proprietor watching over things. Really, had I known, perhaps I could've helped out with the posts. Then again, who is around to read 'em ???? The Catch 22 of it all, huh Really a changed place these past several weeks now that Doug is absorbed in setting up his new digs, recovering from injuries, and working those two jobs. All very legitimate and understandable reasons not to be here, but missed still the same. Couple that with the not-so-regular appearances of some of the guys we've gotten spoiled by routine visits and we have doldrums from time to time. Daylight hours are really getting a bit difficult to justify running the utilities. <not good> We'll be having a house full this Thanksgiving, which is always good. The special thing about this time of year is the family togetherness, which is a big thing with us. All of the "squareheads" show up and things get a bit loud, but what the H - there's no harm, therefore no foul, as the saying goes. Don't know about anyone else, but I spent over an hour today trying to log on the forums. No problem getting on line, but when it came to logging in, well that was another story. To compound matters, I couldn't load those Urls from DL either. So, whatever the problem, it is messing with ME! <grrrrrrr> That's a good thought, Cap'n Tom - Ladies Nite at the bar. I'm all for it. Wouldn't have to be anything more than perhaps an hour for the gals to drop off a few lines and stick around for some responses. Then they'll find out why we enjoy this place so much. How bad can that be It's not as if they have to worry about us being out of the house - or driving home - or . . . . . good idea! My guess is we're going to have a slow week with the holiday coming up and perhaps some taking off for other places (as CM3 I'm NOT Shane! has done). This is the week when we need to rely on our Canadian and UK friends to keep this on the move! A round on me, Ruth and one more in the tankard, then I'm going over to my favorite booth to devour my pizza! Have a great weekend one and all! Until the next time! Lars pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Friday, November 17, 2006 4:48 PM Hi Tom and all. I'll start with a Kimberley Mild and can you put me down for the Steak .n.Fries for later please RUTH. Enjoyed the links as usual MIKE. great pics and info on the Eads Bridge . That is a really good colour poster showing the great amount of river traffic on the Mississippi. DL I tried for quite a while yesterday to find some info and pics on 18000 and 18100 on the net as well. Many thanks for the links. It is a shame that E2001 lasted as late as 1972 and still was not saved. I believe that a member of all the AC loco classes have been saved, including 84001 which I think is the only main line example of the once massive company, The North British Locomotive Co's. modern traction to be saved.A great company who could not make a succesful change from steam to diesel/electric locomotive building. To complete the British Gas Turbines here is a link to the English Electric Co's GT3. http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0923000018018 http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/oddities/gt3.htm. I did not know that GT3 was first started construction at the Rugby Works of the English Eletric Co. until I read the link.. It is an interesting design as the gas turbine loco resembles a steam loco in appearence. Very interesting info on the APT-E from someone who was involved with it.. TOM When we visited to St louis we walked along the river to Eads Bridge, on the way we heard a train but could not work out where is was coming from, it must have been on the line that passed under the bridge as shown in MIKE's links. I have had a look at my railroad atlas for Missouri and it shows the line as owned by the Terminal Railroad Association of St Louis(TRRA) it also seems to show that these tracks were moved slightly away from the river at some time. On the Eads bridge it says it was double decked with the East St Louis& Suburban Railroad and East St Louis Columbia & Waterloo Railroad, electric lines on the top deck of the bridge and the TRRA on the lower. The amount of railroad yards on the Illinois side of the river in the area of Eads bridge which have gone is amazing. Anyway I had better put the atlas away or I will be looking at it all night, it is a great book.. Looking forward to all the tales at the Rendezvous. As it seems a bit quite at the bar I will post some pics of the two Great Western Double-framers at the Bluebell Railway in October. The leading loco is #3440 City of Truro which is said to be the first recorded instance of a British loco attaining over 100 MPH when it was timed at 102.3 MPH in May 1904, although the timing has been argued over ever since, it was done by the very respected train timer Charles Rous Martin. Coincidently the AVERAGE speed of the Pendelino on the recent Glasgow to London non-stop special was 102.3. The trailing loco was a Dukedog The class was introduced as late as 1936 although they were rebuilts with a Duke class boiler and a Bulldog frame. They were used on the Cambrian Railways in Wales on track where there was a weight limit. When built they were named after Earls, but the august Gentlemen objected to their names being on such old fashion locos, so the names were transferred to brand new Castle class 4-6-0 locos. PETE. DL - UK Member sinceAugust 2006 280 posts Posted by DL - UK on Friday, November 17, 2006 11:45 AM Hello there Tom I think I’ll leave that red coat well alone for the moment given your advice! Following on from CM3’s recommendation – I’ll have an Electroburger please, with Pizza on the side! Mike – thanks for those Mars flying boat pics and further links – I was not aware there was such a wide range of designs of US flying boat. Reading that link should we assume two of the planes still exist in their fire fighting role? My uncle was trained in Canada to fly Flying Boats for the RAF and ended up Captain of a Short Sunderland and also flew Catalinas (I think that is what you call a PBY?). CM3 – thanks also for those further reading ideas on the war of independence – I think in fact there were some quite outspoken people here who supported the colonists’ struggle – notable ones were Tom Paine and Josiah Wedgwood (of the pottery fame). Lars – thanks also for your comments! Eric – thanks for your info on the tilting technology – I think the Talgo trains are Spanish in design. I’ve never been to Spain so have not seen them. Pete – I think the RHDR still does those school runs but I’m not 100% certain. Glad to know the Kimberley trip was a success – nice to think the info was of help. Funny thing the internet – today no problem finding info on those classic era experimental GWR Gas Turbines today – couple of good links here with an extract from the info, which will explain why you saw this machine around Rugby I guess: Here’s the stuff on 18100: http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus_18100.html “stipulations were imposed by the BTC in terms of output and projected performance, which in broad terms equated to the requirement to haul an 18 coach train weighing around 650 tons over the Devon banks. “Between 1952 and 1958 the loco worked successfully with few major problems and clocked up some 450,000 miles prior to being withdrawn from service and stored at Swindon Works. After a short period at Swindon No. 18100 was sent to Metropolitan-Vickers at their Bowsfield Works near Stockton-on-Tees where it was converted into the prototype 25kV electric locomotive, No. E1000 (E2001). “No. E1000 (E2001 ) did not last long on the LMR once the production fleets were in service. By 1962 the loco was at the Rugby Testing Station being used for instructional purposes. After being dumped at various locations around the Midlands No. E2001 was eventually returned to Rugby from where it was sold to J. Cashmore of Great Bridge for scrap in November 1972, being finally dismantled in January 1973.” And here on 18000 http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus_18000.html “Britain's first main-line gas-turbine loco was ordered by the Great Western Railway in June 1940 from the Swiss company of Brown Boveri. Although ordered some eight years prior to Nationalisation (1948), No. 18000 was not delivered until 1949. “In late June, No. 18000 was deployed on performance tests over the arduous Devon Banks which identified the locomotive was unable to haul a 350 ton train over the 1:42 Hemerdon incline from a standing start without assistance, the maximum weight that could be satisfactorily moved was 297 tons. Although a number of technical failures befell the loco in the autumn of 1950, the machine was kept in service, normally working the Paddington-Bristol/West of England route. In December 1960 it was returned to Swindon Works and the decision taken to withdraw it from any further testing. Between January 1961 and January 1964 it lay at Swindon Works; however, in late 1963 No. 18000 was sold back to its builders in Switzerland, During the early 1990s a number of BR engineers and enthusiasts set about the task of bringing it back to the UK, and in 1994 their efforts came to fruition when it returned by road to Tinsley with sponsorship from the then Railfreight Distribution business. It was later handed over to the private preservation sector and is now on display in its 1950s black livery at The Railway Age, Crewe, in an unworkable condition.” Had an interesting discussion about Gas Turbine with my father out law, as the APT experimental version was of course Gas Turbine, and he was involved with work on that – he said the view of the researchers was that Gas Turbine only really worked to optimum performance when it could run for long periods at high power output, but that in Britain the proximity of major cities and thus the relative frequency of stops (not to mention the need to stop / slow for other services) meant this could not happen in everyday service here – hence they felt gas turbine was not the way to go in the UK. Tom – I’ll have a mild – no doubt the barrel won’t need changing with your skills about! Good wishes to all DL siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 17, 2006 8:00 AM G’day Gents! Friday at the Tavern by the Tracks and time for a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee along with some pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery. If you’re still hungry, go for a selection from our Menu Board of <light> or <traditional> breakfasts! A bit of activity last evening, so a few acknowledgments are in order: Mike at 8:35 PM: Knew all about FIGMO, however, we had a slightly different definition in my outfit and era. I think you need a hobby – while The Day the Earth Stood Still was and remains one of my favorites, to chronicle the ‘speak,’ well that’s a bit too much for Moi! <grin> The URLs show some interesting views of the Eads bridge. FYI, Amtrak no longer traverses it, whereas MetroLink (light-rail) does. Not being interested in collegiate football, all I can say is “Go Irish!” Guess I heard that somewhere before. Interesting that this subject was brought up, for I had lunch with a friend of mine on Wednesday, who told me all about his trip to South Bend, Indiana for a game and a couple of nights “away.” He and a buddy (both Irish Catholic cops) apparently had a great time. Lord knows who won the game! <grin> I love to jab him a bit about how many Irish kids are playing for them these days. I gotta temper it with some levity in that this guy could and can rip a good sized phone book in half. <ooooooooh> Pete at 10:20 PM: Good to see ya and always appreciate the inclusiveness of your Posts! Brought to mind my failing to comment on the Fells loco from DLs Post. Not the best looking machine, but I can see where the design has been used – with a bit more attention to design – in other locos, especially electrics. When I first moved to this area in 1977, there were times when I’d see some Amtrak trains crossing the Eads bridge. They used to run the right-of-way alongside the Arch and there were some great vantage points to view ‘em. I used to work about ¾ mile from that spot and it was always a good excuse for my daily exercise out from behind the desk to walk down to the Arch and back. I’m sure my guys loved it – probably wished I’d hop aboard for a loooooooong trip (one way)! Kodiak, Alaska was one of the most intriguing places I’ve ever been. Unfortunately, I was just a kid – never fully appreciated what was unfolding before me until way after I returned to the lower 48. Isn’t that the way Having turned 21 up there and working in the environment of some rather tough characters, it surely wasn’t for the “candy a- -“ type. <oooooh> Yes, there will be some stories to share come this May at our Rendezvous! And, should you return to Boston, perhaps you’ll be able to take Amtrak north to Portland, Maine. That route has been reinstated, and offers some fine scenery along the way. Portland is one of my favorite places to see and I think you and the Mrs. would enjoy it. Eric at 1:04 AM today: Always appreciate having you stop by, no matter what the hour. But then, it is a tad earlier where you are, eh Anway – glad to know the Mrs. got the greetings! Perhaps we can organize an evening where all of our ladies get a chance to exchange some info here at the Tavern by the Tracks. Hmmmmmm – have to give that idea some thought. I really knew the reason for the helmets – but my slant on it is far more entertaining! When it comes to looks, I agree with you about the EMDs – best one is the EMD E8 – just love ‘em. Thanx for the info on the Talgo – I’m sure there’s lots more on this subject and since we’re a Classic Trains ‘discussion group,’ the more insights we get, the better, eh Amtrak now crosses the Mississippi on a bridge just to the south of highway 40 and more in line with the right-of-way at the station (if you can call it that!). I believe this particular bridge was once owned by the Terminal Railway Association. May still be – something to research. <groan> Happy Railroading! Siberianmo EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Friday, November 17, 2006 1:04 AM Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!! Early morning that is. Boris, a ham sandwich please! Yes, yes, coffee. Thank you! First of all, my wife thanks you for all happy birthday wishes! I let her read them all! She had a happy one. Quite a few interesting posts! Tom – The steel helmets in the Air Force? Well, one is supposed to be able to defend the mobile radar station against the mean enemy in case they would come too close. I think EMD’s F-units are better looking than Baldwin’s DR-12-8-1500/2 Centipede and Baldwin DR-4-4-15 Sharknose. I can’t recall I saw the Eads Bridge when we were in St. Louis with the X2000. I can see the Arch in the background. Is that bridge close to the one Amtrak is using? I guess I will learn in May! Interesting article! The Talgo tilt system is different comparing with Pendolino, X2000 and others. It is not active. In other words, there is no machinery or pumps to tilt the cars. The tilt is “caused” by the centrifugal forces when the train is running through the curves. Pete – Boat trains were run even in Sweden close to where I used to live. I’ll see if I can find some pictures for the upcoming theme day. DL – There are some similarities between the tilt system in APT and X2000. I don’t know that much about the APT, but will research my papers. Lars – I will put togehter someting about the engineering side of the X2000. Hopefully it will be done Saturday after Thanksgiving. Mike – A bunch of Electrics! Some good looking and some strange looking. But more important than the looks is the power. I have to come back this weekend to read the history of Eads Bridge. Thanks for the links! Nick – Ah, that explains why I couldn’t find that locomotive when I checked W.H.R’s roster. Most likely it did not belong to W.H.R. I actually went to the Tåg-150 celebrations in Sweden last September. Very interesting and it was nice to meet some people I haven’t seen for many years. Rob – I will check that link for books you provided this weekend. CM3 – “Electroburger”! That sounds good! Thanks for the info on those electrics! See if I can find a picture of a S motor. Happy Thanksgiving! James – I agree, most F-units are hard to tell apart. But they are good looking! Eric pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:20 PM Hi Tom and all. Late in today so I had better get a round LEON and I am about ready for NICK's Fish 'N'Chips not forgetting the mushy peas. MIKE Great set of color pics of the Electric Locos, in the first one I think the North Shore line cars weighed more than the 3 ton street sign allowed. And many thanks CM3 for the great info on the electrics, Like Tom I hope you can do a boat train piece. I agree those Hornblower books are a great read.Have a great Thanksgiving. NICK Russell looked the part for sure. The Romney Hythe & Dymchurch certainly has an impressive loco collection. I read a few years ago the railway ran a morning and evening train service for the local school in term time. I do not know if this train still runs, I think it was mainly diesel hauled. Thanks for the Llanelli park info. Many years ago on a railtour of some of the South Wales branch lines we had one that left the main line at Llanelli past the Rugby ground and up a valley to,if I remember correctly, Rose Heywood colliery. Those South Wales colliery branches were some great trips in the 70s with a steep climb up the valleys, many of the tours were in the old Diesel Multiple Units. ROB Great to see you in. As you say there does not seem to be many of the youngsters getting involved in preservation which is a great pity, it makes one wonder about the future of some of the preserved lines and museums. Glad you liked the Boat Train idea.. DL. First Alan says many thanks for the info on Kimberley, He found the old stations and had a great day he says he will send me the details when he has fully recovered. . Great link to the Fell diesel. I did not get to see it. I think it mainy worked on the Midland main line, it certainly was a complex machine. I recall reading that it was a strange sounding machine when it was on the move at speed. As it said in the link. Paxmans went on to built the successful HST diesel engine. As to the Gas Turbine, a while back now there was some very good posts of the Gas Turbines that were in North America at Our Place. The Union Pacific had some large locos of this type. Also in the Fall Issue of Classic Trains 2004 the turbines were featured. As too 18000 I believe it is still at the Crewe Heritage Centre , but I have not read anything about it for a while. Your post reminded me of another gas turbine that was in service with the Western Region of BR. This was built by Metro-Vickers of the UK after a rather short career with the WR where it got the nickname Kerosine Castle, it was rebuilt in 1958 as the pioneer AC electric loco for the London to Manchester/Liverpool electrification scheme. I have looked for a photo and details of E1000 later renumbered E2001 but have had no luck. as far as I know this was the first AC main line loco in the UK.I do not know if E2001 was used in passenger service or was just a test loco. From 1959 the production classes of AC locos for the electrification the AL1 to AL5 later 81to 85 classes were introduced. I never saw E2001 working but she was stored along side the steam shed at Rugby for quite a while in the mid 60s before going for scrap another unique modern traction loco lost. Enjoyed the account of the APT trip. LARS I will get the tee shirt if I see one again . Really hope I can get to that area again, we stayed in Providence RI. Next time I shall take a trip from there to Washington by Amtrak all being well.I thought the Green Line subway cars in Boston had some real character, and yes I walked the Freedom Trail, Old ironsides is very impressive. JAMES Kansas City was where I first saw my US loco. They have done a real fine job on the Union Station there putting it back to its former glory. Last Christmas they had a model railroad in the main hall, and there is a railroad museum as part of the station now. TOM and I have travelled there on Amtrak but owing to late running on the last couple of trips, we have not be able to view the new features. The frieght tracks running along side the station seem very busy with BNSF and UP being the most seen when I have been there.. TOM I think we are going to have to get a keg of some good ale so you can show us your keg tapping skills at the rendezvous.. Greatly enjoying the experiences from the north, I bet there are some great tales from that bar in Kodiak. On the subject of beer, yes I thought the amber beer at the 1847 was very good, but as you say the glasses were rather small, I did think about asking if they did pitchers altough the bride would have disowned me.. I have seen and been under the Eads bridge at Lechlade's landing in St Louis, I shall look forward to travelling over it in May. YES as you say the engineers who built this and the other great bridges could not have known the size and weight of the freight cars of today but their bridges carry these tonnages with little or none modification to their original structure. A to them all. I will e-mail you tomorrow Tom. LEON let me get a round in and I'll have a Holden's Special while I look at MIKE's links. Pete. wanswheel Member sinceNovember 2005 4,190 posts Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:35 PM Hi Tom and everyone a round for the house. Gort was a robot from outer space in The Day The Earth Stood Still. Michael Rennie instructed Patricia Neal to tell Gort, "Klaatu barada nikto." Figmo is army slang for "finally" I got my orders. CM3, Happy Thanksgiving already? OK, have a wonderful time. I think these are S motors, ALCO-GE 2-D-2 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nyc132.jpg http://alfredbarten.com/SM_133MHr.JPG Incidentally, Notre Dame needs Ohio State to absolutely pummel Michigan. Or vice versa, we're not particular. If one of the top 2 teams plays so awfully as to drop to number 3 in the subjective minds of the poll voters, Notre Dame's chance for a national championship are enhanced, if they can beat USC next week, and please God, no Army upset! James, here's a World War II era Milwaukee Road ad http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/T/T29/T2965-150dpi.jpeg Eads Bridge http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/color/572226cv.jpg http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/photos/099459pv.jpg http://www.gatewaynmra.org/articles/photos/Brad-West04.jpg http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppmsca/08900/08973v.jpg Data about James Eads (The second set of URLs is to the same pages) http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/010.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/011.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/012.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/013.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/014.gif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/015.gif TIF Enlarged http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/010.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/011.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/012.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/013.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/014.tif http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/015.tif Mike siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:22 PM G’day Gents! CM3 at 12:30 PM today: Mixed emotions – happy to see ya, but sad to learn that we won’t be seeing ya again for over a week. I really did see the NYC RDC, however, for whatever the reason – made no comment. For shame on the guy who professes to love those machines. <scowl> Hope you’ll have time to prepare something on the NH “boat trains” – it would be a nice complement indeed for the Theme for the Day on the Tuesday following U.S. Thanksgiving. Not trying to be cute about this, however – when it comes to training, perhaps the question should be: Why do things go wrong at the worst of times Aboard ship, whether in port or at sea, the daily drills were meant to keep us razor sharp for all eventualities. Kinda depends on what one is training for. If it’s to keep a business operating at peak performance – that’s one thing. If it’s to save lives and property, that’s quite another. But then, you already knew that, eh Have a great family Thanksgiving and we’ll be looking forward to your return! By the by, thanx for the quarters and round! Lars at 3:00 PM today: Mixed emotions regarding your suggestion on the ratings. Sure, it would be nice to build our Threads back to where they were – however, it only brings attention to them in a way that surely attracts “that element” we’re not interested in. Better way to handle it is to keep pressing the Forums Manager to get rid of the blasted thing (ratings system). Just my thoughts . . . . Surely hope that when springtime rolls around you’ll be one of the attendees at our 2nd Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis! St. Louis is merely a shadow of what it once was insofar as active railroading is concerned – especially passenger operations. However, as mentioned in my Emails, there will be plenty to keep us occupied and happy! Yes, I picked up on the opening day for the Cards. Good choice with the Mets –but not quite as meaningful as it used to be. When they were both in the eastern division, it meant more, dontchathink Tix – yeah, sure – I’ll get ‘em and you will come! <grin> Tapping a beer keg goes way back in my life’s experiences, even before I tended bar up in Kodiak, Alaska over 46 years ago! I’m old . . . That particular gin mill in St. Johns was a place many of us used to frequent when the ship pulled in. We hardly ever had an overnight there – so when the Skipper made a mistake and let the pirates hit the beach – we’d head for that particular joint. Darts, pool – the whole nine yards. They treated us well, we had fun, they made money, it was a win-win. Good memories with those Newfies. Sorry, but I’m no help with the tilt train discussion, but I am aware of the Amtrak Talgo on the west coast. Would like to learn a bit more about the use and technology of it all. Any takers James at 4:38 PM today: The Eads bridge is a structure that has outlived many and most probably me too. What is amazing about any bridge like that is not so much that it was constructed, but WHEN and HOW. That technology has held up to this day and has a life expectancy for many more decades. I find that intriguing. Glad you enjoyed it. Okay guyz, I think I’m done for the day. Leon will take care of your needs – and perhaps Chief Chef Nick will come out of the kitchen for a bit of dialogue. One can never tell! Ring the bell, Boris and let’s have a drink on the Proprietor (that’s me!!) Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:38 PM G-day Tom and all present. Ruth- Time for some Fish n' chips along with a splash of vanilla in the coffee, Please! I can smell it allready! Tom- I just want to start off what you said about 20-fingers Al. I know I didn't post anything over here yesterday. The reason was..I have been playing catch-up around the house-hold, school and at work, and of course, here at "Our Place" After the Train show, it set me back a little. So I only had a few minutes to spend around the classic trains forums. So I spent that 10 or so minutes I had and posted at the classical trains thread. I think it needed a boost! But, if you think that it might happen often..It won't. Maybe a couple times per year. The few days after I've been out of town.. are a little more busier than most, but I have finally gotten through those days of catch-up, so it should be a bit easier. BTW: thanks for the help on contacting the manager. I have been noticing the rating system and to tell you the truth it is a bit weird. And the article on the Eads bridge was very cool. That is one large, very nice looking bridge. Thanks. Mike- I really liked your photo contribution. The old time truck sitting on that Piggyback trailer was a very cool find. That goes to show that intermodal has been around for quite some time. BTW: You're Milwaukee road photos did not go unnoticed. I always like to see a little of the Milwaukee road in there somewhere. Thanks Pete- Yes, it sure was a busy weekend, but it was fun. I have heard of the Kansas show just never been down to it before. But I've heard that it isn't the only reason people go down there. Trains! Railfanning I've heard, is a dream down there. There are so many trains that come through you can't stop taking pictures. Eric- Thank youfor clearing up the F-unit problem I had. For some reason F-units are hard to tell apart for me, except for a few that are obvious, like the FTs and F9 and F7. Any other F-unit I have a hard time telling what they are. Thanks. Rob- Yes, I'm glad I'm back also. I Missed posting around here. But thanks for the comments on the photos I posted. Appreciate it. Well I'm a bit sad that I didn't get to post pics yesterday, but life goes on. I will next Wednesday! Happy railroading James The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by LoveDomes on Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:00 PM Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!Ruth my deAH I'd like a frosty stein of Schaefer if you please and slide those snacks down my way, wudja! Cap'n Tom I'm really surprised that you didn't jump all over that shot of the hidden NYC RDC in MeisterMonsterMike's Url. <grin> There it was, just waiting for recognition. Leave it to CM3 I'm NOT Shane! to pluck it out. So, our West Virginia friend is off 'n running into the northern latitudes, huh And getting in some railroading while the Mrs. is doing other things. Sweet! <grin> Happy Turkey Day to you 'n yours too! Like the way the "Boat Trains" are shaping up with the 3-Brits taking charge. Why is it that I'm seeing red these days I'm going to have to put some serious effort into those U.S. boat trains - especially now that CM3 has mentioned the NH ran one. Know for sure the west coast had 'em . . . Ya know, if the guys want to try and get our "ratings" back up to close to where they were - just rate these two threads with 5-stars. That should put a dent into what the JOs did. Would much rather just have them scrapped. But it doesn't appear as if that is going to happen. Think about it.That Eads bridge looks quite interesting and also intriguing. The engineering of past years - heck, centuries, still holds to this day. How many times to we fall into the trap of thinking that only the "things" in present times have any credibility? Really! New York City is chock full of structures built long, long ago and still holding up well. Will be looking forward to the crossing of the Eads aboard that MetroLink out there, if that is all goes well for my planned trip for the rendezvous in St. Looooooooo. Hey! Didjasee that the Mets will be opening up the 2007 season out your way Season starts for them on April Fool's Day. Don't like the sound of that! See if you can scam some tix, and I'll meetcha at the gate! <grin>So, Nick plays in the sandbox with toy soldiers and creatures from other places (dimensions)! Always thought so!!<grin> Like those soldiers you came up with, Tom - and we KNOW who they are aiming at. Lobsters! <grin> And by the way, we enjoy the Horatio Hornblower series in my house too. The books are great reading as well; had 'em with me on more than one sea tour.Man oh man, if you really know the rudimentaries of tapping a keg, you're a valuable guy in some of the taverns I (used to) frequent. That's an art, and something not too many people have a clue about. Bet those Newfies were scratching their collective heads after that one! <grin> St. Johns was a port to remember - but not nearly as often as you put in.Pete - next time you're in Bahston - fetch me a t-shirt! Love it - XXL for me, tho . . . .Did Mike get his fingers caught between the keys or is he trying to send us a cryptic message Rob, I'm going to have to figure out a new way to remunerate you for your "services" here at the bar. Your schedule is not in line with our peak times - so, instead of paying you off in Canadian $$$, from here on out, it's Mexican Pesos - bring the wheel barrow! <grin> Anyway, it's a not good thing when work gets in the way of pleasure. Keep that in mind when you let the boss know how you feel! <grin> Yeah, right . . .Been enjoying the dialogue over those tilt trains between DL 'n Pete. Was thinking maybe Eric would jump in with the engineering side of the X2000. That technology surely could have and should have been put to widespread use here. Only trains I know that are using it are the Talgos out on the west coast, run by Amtrak up the northern coast. Anyone have better info One more, Ruth - then I'm gone! Until the next time! Lars coalminer3 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: WV 1,251 posts Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:30 PM Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. To Our ‘Steamed Proprietor – I have both of the books you mentioned; you’ll enjoy them. The printing quality is good, and, with a magnifying glass you can read the menus, publicity material, etc. that is included as illustrations. A most eclectic and useful set of material re the Eads Bridge. Thank you. I understand the difference between stories and sea stories. The same distinction applies when miners, steelworkers, etc. get together; often with the same preface. I believe we could swap a few (grin). Anyway, I had a friend who went to sleep in a Boston and Maine coach in North Station once and came to in Halifax - to this day he has no idea how he got there. Mike provided some good links. Zoiks – an Electroliner in its native habitat! Never got a chance to ride the North Shore. Those trains had food service; one of the items was an “Electroburger.” Ah, well – the information that occupies otherwise valuable space in our memories. The P motor was a fine picture. They came east after electrification was shut down in Cleveland, and went through several r# on the NYC. IIRC, there were approx. 8 of them. Seven were used in revenue service and one served as a source for parts. I remember seeing them along the Hudson Division with various passenger trains; looked like a house on wheels. If I am not mistaken the picture was taken at Harmon. The building is a dead giveaway. The T bucket is a nice picture as well. This was definitely taken at Harmon as I remember seeing them there. I am sure our ‘steamed proprietor is upset because the motor is obscuring the RDC car (LOL). Now the challenge is to find a shot of an S motor. These were built c. 1905 and were still around in the 1970s. I remember very well seeing them pushing cars around at Grand Central, Mott Haven, and at Harmon. They were the pioneers of NYC electrification. Nick – Sand table? Excellent! The Mentor Fusiliers will, of course, retreat immediately – in case they are attacked from behind. BTW, what shall we use for artillery? DL has some more insightful info. As a native New Englander, I grew up surrounded by, and taking outside visitors to, historic sites. Yes, I did have ancestors who fought in the Revolution. Anyway, the term for those who remained with the Crown, was “Loyalists.” They did not fare very well at the hands of the other side. If you have not read any of the following, see if you can find them. First is David McCullough’s 1776. Next is McCullough’s biography of John Adams. Last is a fairly new one by Edward G. Lengel titled, General George Washington – A Military Life. Lengel is Associate Editor of the George Washington Papers – a monstrous seemingly never-ending project. All of these books are well-written and give balanced portrayals of their respective subjects. And all you thought we did was trains... To whet your appetite, the Old Colony (New Haven) had a Boat Train. It was one of the hottest trains on the railroad. Rob is with us - why is it that the training always takes place whn you have lotsa other stuff to do as well? Will be offline for awhile again as we go north to the heart of NYC country. I am in hopes of getting some material written ahead for future posts, especially as we draw closer to the holiday season. Will also be attending the Western New York RHS Train Show on Saturday; this is always a good one and a chance to see folks I don’t get to visit with all that often. I'm the old guy in the filthy Carhartt jacket. Mom will be watching Michigan and Ohio State; she’ll never know I’m gone. Happy Thanksgiving to all Work safe siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:23 AM G'day Gents! Back for just a minute - Ruth go ahead and take a break, I'll watch the bar. DL - sorry I had to run earlier, Juneau takes priority! <grin> So, where were we Ah yes, your Posts of 8:07 AM & 9:52 AM today: Let's go with the "Boat Trains" theme for Nov 28th. As mentioned in my previous narrative, methinks we'll have sufficient material to make it work. Now train ferries could be worked in for a later time - places like New York harbor, San Francisco bay and assorted other locations had and still have them. Terminology may be different, but the the concept is the same. While hardly the aficionado for the tea drinkers anonymous of north America (TDANA) I think in comparison with those of you in the far eastern Atlantic, we rank a distant 2nd 'n 3rd in volume, capacity and desire when it come to drinking tea! Canda #2 - USA #3. We've visited with those who are absolutely possessed by the "get it right demon" when it comes to the preparation of the stuff in those funny little bags! <grin> I'd rather spend my time tapping a keg or better yet, popping the top on a can of my favorite beverage - Keiths Ale from Halifax! So that's YOUR coat, eh I'd be just a bit wary when putting your arms into the sleeves. Seems that Awk, our flying mascot, has taken a liking to it - red IS his favorite color. He may have "used" the sleeves for a temporary resting place. <oooooh> In all of our travels to Nova Scotia, I'd say the overwhelming number of people we've developed friendships with are NOT native of the province. Funny, but so many are from elsewhere in Canada - several retired in the Halifax area upon conclusion of their military careers. That's what my bride's father did after 30 years with the RCAF. Others, like my late friend in Dartmouth, came over from Scotland with his wife from the London area. And it goes on and on - not that many "natives" and therefore, not too much in terms of local history and heritage. Yes, many from the New England area did indeed head north when our revolution gained steam. Suppose there was a connection in that the place was called "New" <grin> Anyway, depending on who writes the history and how it gets translated (I detest revisionists!!) I too would have been for independence no matter where the soverign power was located. Dumping the tea into the harbor was and remains quite the symbol of rebellion in many texts, in spite of efforts to purge the pages of anything at all smacking of patriotism, nationalistic pride and the like. A topic for 'nother time, eh A true story: Once upon a time . . . . Before getting into this, you DO know the difference between a fairy tale and a "sea" story Fairy tales begin with "Once upon a time," whereas Sea stories start off with, "This is No S--T!!" Anyway, where was I Ah, yes - decades ago while in a bar in St. Johns, Newfoundland, the barkeep served up brew that was so full of foam and airy, that I commented that whoever tapped the keg didn't do it right. He overheard me and challenged me on the spot. We discussed the various methods of tapping beer kegs and wound up with me in the dark, dank basement, showing him how to do it! No joke . . . brew was much better after that - probably because is was on the house! <grin> Probably couldn't do that today if my life depended on it .... ah, youth! On a new note - for those of you planning to attend our 2nd Annual Rendezvous in St. Louis - we'll be crossing the Eads bridge on our MetroLink excursion. Gotta get about the day! Ruth, give 'em what they please, and Boris, ring the bell! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo DL - UK Member sinceAugust 2006 280 posts Posted by DL - UK on Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:52 AM Hi Tom Just calling by to put my fish and chips order in - and to say I can't resist saying that those guys north of the 49th are the loyal colonials (ha ha). No doubt a reward accorded them for keeping the tea out of the harbour (mind you - does not help ensure you can get a decent cup of tea in Canada these days - my recent visit had to end up with me giving instructions on how to brew at the restaurant I was in in Halifax - mind you - and this goes for the US of A too - the credit is due as the staff were only too happy to follow the request - sadly you would not get that sort of courtesy this side of the pond if the position was reversed in all cases!). Actually - on a serious note I was very interested to learn in halifax that there was a strong influx to Nova Scotia of New Englanders who did not want to break with the Crown back during the war of independence. That was something I knew nothing about. Have to say though that had I been there at the time I think I'd have been with the rebels! Anyway - been thinking Tom - if the Boat Train services were not a big thing your way maybe we could include Train Ferries too - I'm sure some of them exist as I recall pictures in Classic Trains not so long ago. Is that my red coat hanging on the hook by the door.... See you later DL siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:47 AM Great Railroad Bridges - #5 Used with permission from Wikipedia.com Eads Bridge The Eads Bridge is a combined road and railway bridge over the Mississippi River at St. Louis, connecting St. Louis and East St. Louis, Illinois. The bridge is named for its designer and builder, Captain James B. Eads. When completed in 1874, the Eads Bridge was the longest bridge in the world, with an overall length of 6,442 feet (1,964 m). The ribbed steel arch spans were considered daring, as was the use of steel as a primary structural material. The steel came from Andrew Carnegie on behalf of the Keystone Steel Company, the first such use of steel in a major bridge project and the beginning of Carnegie's extremely successful career in steel. The Eads Bridge was also the first bridge to be built using cantilever support methods exclusively, and one of the first to make use of pneumatic caissons. The Eads Bridge caissons, still among the deepest ever sunk, were responsible for one of the first major outbreaks of "caisson disease" (also known as "the bends"), and thirteen workers died. The Eads Bridge is still in use, and stands on the St. Louis riverfront between Laclede's Landing on the north and the grounds of the Gateway Arch to the south. Today the road deck has been restored, allowing vehicle and pedestrian traffic to cross the river. The rail deck has been in use for the St. Louis Metrolink light rail line since 1993. A panoramic image of Eads Bridge History The Eads Bridge was constructed as the first link to Illinois over the Mississippi River at St. Louis. The domination of the river trade was no longer as important as before the War between the States, and Chicago was fast gaining as the center of commerce in the West. The Bridge was conceived as a solution to the futile quest to reverse this new found eminence. The Eads Bridge under construction, 1870s The bridge, generated in controversy, was also considered a radical design solution, though the ribbed arch had been a known construction technique for centuries. The triple span, tubular metallic arch construction was supported by two shore abutments and two mid-river piers. Four pairs of arches per span (upper and lower) were set eight feet apart, supporting an upper deck for vehicular traffic and a lower deck for rail traffic. Construction involved varied and confusing design elements and pressures. State and federal charters precluded suspension or draw bridges, or wood construction. There were also constraints on span size and regarding the height above the water line. The location dictated a change from the low Illinois floodplain of the east bank to the high Missouri cliff on the west bank of the river. The bedrock was exceedingly deep. Eads Bridge from East Riverfront MetroLink station, Illinois side (photo by: Larry Pieniazek - GNU Free Doc.) These pressures resulted in a bridge noted as innovative for precision and accuracy of construction and quality control. Utilization of cast chromium steel components is arguably the first use of structural alloy steel in a major building construction. (Though the bridge as actually completed contained large - and unknown - amounts of wrought iron.) Eads argued that the great compressive strength of steel was ideal for use in the upright arch design. This decision resulted from a curious combination of chance and necessity, due to the insufficient strength of alternative material choices. The particular physical difficulties of the site stim Happy Railroading! Siberianmo « First«11121314151617»Last » SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter Submit More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
The GG1s were large locomotives, 79 ft 6 in (24.23 m) long and weighing 477,000 lb (216,000 kg). The main body was a single unit formed as a bridge-truss framework and clad in welded steel plate. The driving cabs were set up high about a third of the way along the locomotive from each end for greater crew safety in an accident. A narrower section of nose in front of the cab windows enabled view forward, although the nose remained full height to carry the current-collection pantographs. The bodywork as a whole was smoothly rounded.
This was mounted upon two great cast steel locomotive frames linked by a hinge at the locomotive's middle which allowed side-to-side movement. Six driving wheels (three axles) were fitted towards the center of the locomotive on each truck (twelve in total) and a four-wheeled, unpowered guiding truck was mounted toward each end. In the Whyte notation for steam locomotives, each frame comprised a 4-6-0 locomotive; in the PRR's classification system, 4-6-0s were class "G". The GG1 consisted of two such locomotive frames mounted back to back, so it was classified GG—4-6-0+0-6-4. This arrangement is called 2-C+C-2 in AAR wheel arrangement notation. Each driven axle was powered by two 385 hp (305 kW) GEA-627-A1 traction motors mounted above and to either side of the axle. Drive was through a reduction gear and a quill drive assembly.
While the famous industrial designer Raymond Loewy did not design the shape of the GG1 electric locomotives, he did improve their looks by recommending a smooth welded construction be used (rather than riveted construction), along with a pinstriped paint scheme to highlight their smoothly rounded forms. The real design behind the GG1 came from the New Haven Railroad EP3 electric. The New Haven allowed the PRR to borrow a pair of EP3s for testing, and the PRR was quite impressed with their performance and decided to base the design of its electric locomotive on the EP3. One could easily say the PRR and GG1 fans owe it all to the New Haven for sending two EP3 units to the PRR for testing.[citation needed]
Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth my deAH you look simply gorgeous! What's that Tired from being alone. Hmmmmm,. wish I had known THAT was the situation - I'd have rushed on over! I'll take a frosty mug of Piels and a pizza - Italian sausage, thin crust! It's after 5 PM my time and I'm hungry!
What a slooooooooow day, especially without our Proprietor watching over things. Really, had I known, perhaps I could've helped out with the posts. Then again, who is around to read 'em ???? The Catch 22 of it all, huh
Really a changed place these past several weeks now that Doug is absorbed in setting up his new digs, recovering from injuries, and working those two jobs. All very legitimate and understandable reasons not to be here, but missed still the same. Couple that with the not-so-regular appearances of some of the guys we've gotten spoiled by routine visits and we have doldrums from time to time. Daylight hours are really getting a bit difficult to justify running the utilities. <not good>
We'll be having a house full this Thanksgiving, which is always good. The special thing about this time of year is the family togetherness, which is a big thing with us. All of the "squareheads" show up and things get a bit loud, but what the H - there's no harm, therefore no foul, as the saying goes.
Don't know about anyone else, but I spent over an hour today trying to log on the forums. No problem getting on line, but when it came to logging in, well that was another story. To compound matters, I couldn't load those Urls from DL either. So, whatever the problem, it is messing with ME! <grrrrrrr>
That's a good thought, Cap'n Tom - Ladies Nite at the bar. I'm all for it. Wouldn't have to be anything more than perhaps an hour for the gals to drop off a few lines and stick around for some responses. Then they'll find out why we enjoy this place so much. How bad can that be It's not as if they have to worry about us being out of the house - or driving home - or . . . . . good idea!
My guess is we're going to have a slow week with the holiday coming up and perhaps some taking off for other places (as CM3 I'm NOT Shane! has done). This is the week when we need to rely on our Canadian and UK friends to keep this on the move!
A round on me, Ruth and one more in the tankard, then I'm going over to my favorite booth to devour my pizza!
Have a great weekend one and all!
Until the next time!
Lars
I'll start with a Kimberley Mild and can you put me down for the Steak .n.Fries for later please RUTH.
Enjoyed the links as usual MIKE. great pics and info on the Eads Bridge . That is a really good colour poster showing the great amount of river traffic on the Mississippi.
DL I tried for quite a while yesterday to find some info and pics on 18000 and 18100 on the net as well. Many thanks for the links.
It is a shame that E2001 lasted as late as 1972 and still was not saved. I believe that a member of all the AC loco classes have been saved, including 84001 which I think is the only main line example of the once massive company, The North British Locomotive Co's. modern traction to be saved.A great company who could not make a succesful change from steam to diesel/electric locomotive building.
To complete the British Gas Turbines here is a link to the English Electric Co's GT3.
http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0923000018018
http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/oddities/gt3.htm.
I did not know that GT3 was first started construction at the Rugby Works of the English Eletric Co. until I read the link.. It is an interesting design as the gas turbine loco resembles a steam loco in appearence.
Very interesting info on the APT-E from someone who was involved with it..
TOM When we visited to St louis we walked along the river to Eads Bridge, on the way we heard a train but could not work out where is was coming from, it must have been on the line that passed under the bridge as shown in MIKE's links. I have had a look at my railroad atlas for Missouri and it shows the line as owned by the Terminal Railroad Association of St Louis(TRRA) it also seems to show that these tracks were moved slightly away from the river at some time. On the Eads bridge it says it was double decked with the East St Louis& Suburban Railroad and East St Louis Columbia & Waterloo Railroad, electric lines on the top deck of the bridge and the TRRA on the lower. The amount of railroad yards on the Illinois side of the river in the area of Eads bridge which have gone is amazing. Anyway I had better put the atlas away or I will be looking at it all night, it is a great book..
Looking forward to all the tales at the Rendezvous.
As it seems a bit quite at the bar I will post some pics of the two Great Western Double-framers at the Bluebell Railway in October.
The leading loco is #3440 City of Truro which is said to be the first recorded instance of a British loco attaining over 100 MPH when it was timed at 102.3 MPH in May 1904, although the timing has been argued over ever since, it was done by the very respected train timer Charles Rous Martin. Coincidently the AVERAGE speed of the Pendelino on the recent Glasgow to London non-stop special was 102.3.
The trailing loco was a Dukedog The class was introduced as late as 1936 although they were rebuilts with a Duke class boiler and a Bulldog frame. They were used on the Cambrian Railways in Wales on track where there was a weight limit. When built they were named after Earls, but the august Gentlemen objected to their names being on such old fashion locos, so the names were transferred to brand new Castle class 4-6-0 locos.
PETE.
Hello there Tom
I think I’ll leave that red coat well alone for the moment given your advice!
Following on from CM3’s recommendation – I’ll have an Electroburger please, with Pizza on the side!
Mike – thanks for those Mars flying boat pics and further links – I was not aware there was such a wide range of designs of US flying boat. Reading that link should we assume two of the planes still exist in their fire fighting role?
My uncle was trained in Canada to fly Flying Boats for the RAF and ended up Captain of a Short Sunderland and also flew Catalinas (I think that is what you call a PBY?).
CM3 – thanks also for those further reading ideas on the war of independence – I think in fact there were some quite outspoken people here who supported the colonists’ struggle – notable ones were Tom Paine and Josiah Wedgwood (of the pottery fame).
Lars – thanks also for your comments!
Eric – thanks for your info on the tilting technology – I think the Talgo trains are Spanish in design. I’ve never been to Spain so have not seen them.
Pete – I think the RHDR still does those school runs but I’m not 100% certain. Glad to know the Kimberley trip was a success – nice to think the info was of help.
Funny thing the internet – today no problem finding info on those classic era experimental GWR Gas Turbines today – couple of good links here with an extract from the info, which will explain why you saw this machine around Rugby I guess:
Here’s the stuff on 18100:
http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus_18100.html
“stipulations were imposed by the BTC in terms of output and projected performance, which in broad terms equated to the requirement to haul an 18 coach train weighing around 650 tons over the Devon banks.
“Between 1952 and 1958 the loco worked successfully with few major problems and clocked up some 450,000 miles prior to being withdrawn from service and stored at Swindon Works. After a short period at Swindon No. 18100 was sent to Metropolitan-Vickers at their Bowsfield Works near Stockton-on-Tees where it was converted into the prototype 25kV electric locomotive, No. E1000 (E2001).
“No. E1000 (E2001 ) did not last long on the LMR once the production fleets were in service. By 1962 the loco was at the Rugby Testing Station being used for instructional purposes. After being dumped at various locations around the Midlands No. E2001 was eventually returned to Rugby from where it was sold to J. Cashmore of Great Bridge for scrap in November 1972, being finally dismantled in January 1973.”
And here on 18000
http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages%20Loco/Recognition%20loco/Illus_18000.html
“Britain's first main-line gas-turbine loco was ordered by the Great Western Railway in June 1940 from the Swiss company of Brown Boveri. Although ordered some eight years prior to Nationalisation (1948), No. 18000 was not delivered until 1949.
“In late June, No. 18000 was deployed on performance tests over the arduous Devon Banks which identified the locomotive was unable to haul a 350 ton train over the 1:42 Hemerdon incline from a standing start without assistance, the maximum weight that could be satisfactorily moved was 297 tons. Although a number of technical failures befell the loco in the autumn of 1950, the machine was kept in service, normally working the Paddington-Bristol/West of England route. In December 1960 it was returned to Swindon Works and the decision taken to withdraw it from any further testing. Between January 1961 and January 1964 it lay at Swindon Works; however, in late 1963 No. 18000 was sold back to its builders in Switzerland, During the early 1990s a number of BR engineers and enthusiasts set about the task of bringing it back to the UK, and in 1994 their efforts came to fruition when it returned by road to Tinsley with sponsorship from the then Railfreight Distribution business. It was later handed over to the private preservation sector and is now on display in its 1950s black livery at The Railway Age, Crewe, in an unworkable condition.”
Had an interesting discussion about Gas Turbine with my father out law, as the APT experimental version was of course Gas Turbine, and he was involved with work on that – he said the view of the researchers was that Gas Turbine only really worked to optimum performance when it could run for long periods at high power output, but that in Britain the proximity of major cities and thus the relative frequency of stops (not to mention the need to stop / slow for other services) meant this could not happen in everyday service here – hence they felt gas turbine was not the way to go in the UK.
Tom – I’ll have a mild – no doubt the barrel won’t need changing with your skills about!
Good wishes to all
Friday at the Tavern by the Tracks and time for a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee along with some pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery. If you’re still hungry, go for a selection from our Menu Board of <light> or <traditional> breakfasts!
A bit of activity last evening, so a few acknowledgments are in order:
Mike at 8:35 PM: Knew all about FIGMO, however, we had a slightly different definition in my outfit and era. I think you need a hobby – while The Day the Earth Stood Still was and remains one of my favorites, to chronicle the ‘speak,’ well that’s a bit too much for Moi! <grin>
The URLs show some interesting views of the Eads bridge. FYI, Amtrak no longer traverses it, whereas MetroLink (light-rail) does.
Not being interested in collegiate football, all I can say is “Go Irish!” Guess I heard that somewhere before.
Interesting that this subject was brought up, for I had lunch with a friend of mine on Wednesday, who told me all about his trip to South Bend, Indiana for a game and a couple of nights “away.” He and a buddy (both Irish Catholic cops) apparently had a great time. Lord knows who won the game! <grin> I love to jab him a bit about how many Irish kids are playing for them these days. I gotta temper it with some levity in that this guy could and can rip a good sized phone book in half. <ooooooooh>
Pete at 10:20 PM: Good to see ya and always appreciate the inclusiveness of your Posts! Brought to mind my failing to comment on the Fells loco from DLs Post. Not the best looking machine, but I can see where the design has been used – with a bit more attention to design – in other locos, especially electrics.
When I first moved to this area in 1977, there were times when I’d see some Amtrak trains crossing the Eads bridge. They used to run the right-of-way alongside the Arch and there were some great vantage points to view ‘em. I used to work about ¾ mile from that spot and it was always a good excuse for my daily exercise out from behind the desk to walk down to the Arch and back. I’m sure my guys loved it – probably wished I’d hop aboard for a loooooooong trip (one way)!
Kodiak, Alaska was one of the most intriguing places I’ve ever been. Unfortunately, I was just a kid – never fully appreciated what was unfolding before me until way after I returned to the lower 48. Isn’t that the way Having turned 21 up there and working in the environment of some rather tough characters, it surely wasn’t for the “candy a- -“ type. <oooooh> Yes, there will be some stories to share come this May at our Rendezvous!
And, should you return to Boston, perhaps you’ll be able to take Amtrak north to Portland, Maine. That route has been reinstated, and offers some fine scenery along the way. Portland is one of my favorite places to see and I think you and the Mrs. would enjoy it.
Eric at 1:04 AM today: Always appreciate having you stop by, no matter what the hour. But then, it is a tad earlier where you are, eh Anway – glad to know the Mrs. got the greetings! Perhaps we can organize an evening where all of our ladies get a chance to exchange some info here at the Tavern by the Tracks. Hmmmmmm – have to give that idea some thought.
I really knew the reason for the helmets – but my slant on it is far more entertaining!
When it comes to looks, I agree with you about the EMDs – best one is the EMD E8 – just love ‘em.
Thanx for the info on the Talgo – I’m sure there’s lots more on this subject and since we’re a Classic Trains ‘discussion group,’ the more insights we get, the better, eh
Amtrak now crosses the Mississippi on a bridge just to the south of highway 40 and more in line with the right-of-way at the station (if you can call it that!). I believe this particular bridge was once owned by the Terminal Railway Association. May still be – something to research. <groan>
Late in today so I had better get a round LEON and I am about ready for NICK's Fish 'N'Chips not forgetting the mushy peas.
MIKE Great set of color pics of the Electric Locos, in the first one I think the North Shore line cars weighed more than the 3 ton street sign allowed.
And many thanks CM3 for the great info on the electrics, Like Tom I hope you can do a boat train piece. I agree those Hornblower books are a great read.Have a great Thanksgiving.
NICK Russell looked the part for sure. The Romney Hythe & Dymchurch certainly has an impressive loco collection. I read a few years ago the railway ran a morning and evening train service for the local school in term time. I do not know if this train still runs, I think it was mainly diesel hauled.
Thanks for the Llanelli park info. Many years ago on a railtour of some of the South Wales branch lines we had one that left the main line at Llanelli past the Rugby ground and up a valley to,if I remember correctly, Rose Heywood colliery. Those South Wales colliery branches were some great trips in the 70s with a steep climb up the valleys, many of the tours were in the old Diesel Multiple Units.
ROB Great to see you in. As you say there does not seem to be many of the youngsters getting involved in preservation which is a great pity, it makes one wonder about the future of some of the preserved lines and museums.
Glad you liked the Boat Train idea..
DL. First Alan says many thanks for the info on Kimberley, He found the old stations and had a great day he says he will send me the details when he has fully recovered. .
Great link to the Fell diesel. I did not get to see it. I think it mainy worked on the Midland main line, it certainly was a complex machine. I recall reading that it was a strange sounding machine when it was on the move at speed.
As it said in the link. Paxmans went on to built the successful HST diesel engine.
As to the Gas Turbine, a while back now there was some very good posts of the Gas Turbines that were in North America at Our Place. The Union Pacific had some large locos of this type. Also in the Fall Issue of Classic Trains 2004 the turbines were featured. As too 18000 I believe it is still at the Crewe Heritage Centre , but I have not read anything about it for a while.
Your post reminded me of another gas turbine that was in service with the Western Region of BR. This was built by Metro-Vickers of the UK after a rather short career with the WR where it got the nickname Kerosine Castle, it was rebuilt in 1958 as the pioneer AC electric loco for the London to Manchester/Liverpool electrification scheme. I have looked for a photo and details of E1000 later renumbered E2001 but have had no luck. as far as I know this was the first AC main line loco in the UK.I do not know if E2001 was used in passenger service or was just a test loco.
From 1959 the production classes of AC locos for the electrification the AL1 to AL5 later 81to 85 classes were introduced. I never saw E2001 working but she was stored along side the steam shed at Rugby for quite a while in the mid 60s before going for scrap another unique modern traction loco lost.
Enjoyed the account of the APT trip.
LARS I will get the tee shirt if I see one again . Really hope I can get to that area again, we stayed in Providence RI. Next time I shall take a trip from there to Washington by Amtrak all being well.I thought the Green Line subway cars in Boston had some real character, and yes I walked the Freedom Trail, Old ironsides is very impressive.
JAMES Kansas City was where I first saw my US loco. They have done a real fine job on the Union Station there putting it back to its former glory. Last Christmas they had a model railroad in the main hall, and there is a railroad museum as part of the station now. TOM and I have travelled there on Amtrak but owing to late running on the last couple of trips, we have not be able to view the new features. The frieght tracks running along side the station seem very busy with BNSF and UP being the most seen when I have been there..
TOM I think we are going to have to get a keg of some good ale so you can show us your keg tapping skills at the rendezvous.. Greatly enjoying the experiences from the north, I bet there are some great tales from that bar in Kodiak.
On the subject of beer, yes I thought the amber beer at the 1847 was very good, but as you say the glasses were rather small, I did think about asking if they did pitchers altough the bride would have disowned me..
I have seen and been under the Eads bridge at Lechlade's landing in St Louis, I shall look forward to travelling over it in May.
YES as you say the engineers who built this and the other great bridges could not have known the size and weight of the freight cars of today but their bridges carry these tonnages with little or none modification to their original structure. A to them all.
I will e-mail you tomorrow Tom.
LEON let me get a round in and I'll have a Holden's Special while I look at MIKE's links.
Hi Tom and everyone a round for the house.
Gort was a robot from outer space in The Day The Earth Stood Still. Michael Rennie instructed Patricia Neal to tell Gort, "Klaatu barada nikto." Figmo is army slang for "finally" I got my orders.
CM3, Happy Thanksgiving already? OK, have a wonderful time.
I think these are S motors, ALCO-GE 2-D-2
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nyc132.jpg
http://alfredbarten.com/SM_133MHr.JPG
Incidentally, Notre Dame needs Ohio State to absolutely pummel Michigan.
Or vice versa, we're not particular. If one of the top 2 teams plays so awfully as to drop to number 3 in the subjective minds of the poll voters, Notre Dame's chance for a national championship are enhanced, if they can beat USC next week, and please God, no Army upset!
James, here's a World War II era Milwaukee Road ad
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/T/T29/T2965-150dpi.jpeg
Eads Bridge
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/color/572226cv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/photos/099459pv.jpg
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/articles/photos/Brad-West04.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppmsca/08900/08973v.jpg
Data about James Eads (The second set of URLs is to the same pages)
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/010.gif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/011.gif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/012.gif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/013.gif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/014.gif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/015.gif
TIF Enlarged
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/010.tif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/011.tif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/012.tif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/013.tif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/014.tif
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mo/mo0300/mo0361/data/015.tif
Mike
CM3 at 12:30 PM today: Mixed emotions – happy to see ya, but sad to learn that we won’t be seeing ya again for over a week.
I really did see the NYC RDC, however, for whatever the reason – made no comment. For shame on the guy who professes to love those machines. <scowl>
Hope you’ll have time to prepare something on the NH “boat trains” – it would be a nice complement indeed for the Theme for the Day on the Tuesday following U.S. Thanksgiving.
Not trying to be cute about this, however – when it comes to training, perhaps the question should be: Why do things go wrong at the worst of times Aboard ship, whether in port or at sea, the daily drills were meant to keep us razor sharp for all eventualities. Kinda depends on what one is training for. If it’s to keep a business operating at peak performance – that’s one thing. If it’s to save lives and property, that’s quite another. But then, you already knew that, eh
Have a great family Thanksgiving and we’ll be looking forward to your return! By the by, thanx for the quarters and round!
Lars at 3:00 PM today: Mixed emotions regarding your suggestion on the ratings. Sure, it would be nice to build our Threads back to where they were – however, it only brings attention to them in a way that surely attracts “that element” we’re not interested in. Better way to handle it is to keep pressing the Forums Manager to get rid of the blasted thing (ratings system). Just my thoughts . . . .
Surely hope that when springtime rolls around you’ll be one of the attendees at our 2nd Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis! St. Louis is merely a shadow of what it once was insofar as active railroading is concerned – especially passenger operations. However, as mentioned in my Emails, there will be plenty to keep us occupied and happy!
Yes, I picked up on the opening day for the Cards. Good choice with the Mets –but not quite as meaningful as it used to be. When they were both in the eastern division, it meant more, dontchathink Tix – yeah, sure – I’ll get ‘em and you will come! <grin>
Tapping a beer keg goes way back in my life’s experiences, even before I tended bar up in Kodiak, Alaska over 46 years ago! I’m old . . . That particular gin mill in St. Johns was a place many of us used to frequent when the ship pulled in. We hardly ever had an overnight there – so when the Skipper made a mistake and let the pirates hit the beach – we’d head for that particular joint. Darts, pool – the whole nine yards. They treated us well, we had fun, they made money, it was a win-win. Good memories with those Newfies.
Sorry, but I’m no help with the tilt train discussion, but I am aware of the Amtrak Talgo on the west coast. Would like to learn a bit more about the use and technology of it all. Any takers
James at 4:38 PM today: The Eads bridge is a structure that has outlived many and most probably me too. What is amazing about any bridge like that is not so much that it was constructed, but WHEN and HOW. That technology has held up to this day and has a life expectancy for many more decades. I find that intriguing. Glad you enjoyed it.
Okay guyz, I think I’m done for the day. Leon will take care of your needs – and perhaps Chief Chef Nick will come out of the kitchen for a bit of dialogue. One can never tell!
Ring the bell, Boris and let’s have a drink on the Proprietor (that’s me!!)
Ruth- Time for some Fish n' chips along with a splash of vanilla in the coffee, Please! I can smell it allready!
Tom- I just want to start off what you said about 20-fingers Al. I know I didn't post anything over here yesterday. The reason was..I have been playing catch-up around the house-hold, school and at work, and of course, here at "Our Place" After the Train show, it set me back a little. So I only had a few minutes to spend around the classic trains forums. So I spent that 10 or so minutes I had and posted at the classical trains thread. I think it needed a boost!
But, if you think that it might happen often..It won't. Maybe a couple times per year. The few days after I've been out of town.. are a little more busier than most, but I have finally gotten through those days of catch-up, so it should be a bit easier.
BTW: thanks for the help on contacting the manager. I have been noticing the rating system and to tell you the truth it is a bit weird. And the article on the Eads bridge was very cool. That is one large, very nice looking bridge. Thanks.
Mike- I really liked your photo contribution. The old time truck sitting on that Piggyback trailer was a very cool find. That goes to show that intermodal has been around for quite some time. BTW: You're Milwaukee road photos did not go unnoticed. I always like to see a little of the Milwaukee road in there somewhere. Thanks
Pete- Yes, it sure was a busy weekend, but it was fun. I have heard of the Kansas show just never been down to it before. But I've heard that it isn't the only reason people go down there. Trains! Railfanning I've heard, is a dream down there. There are so many trains that come through you can't stop taking pictures.
Eric- Thank youfor clearing up the F-unit problem I had. For some reason F-units are hard to tell apart for me, except for a few that are obvious, like the FTs and F9 and F7. Any other F-unit I have a hard time telling what they are. Thanks.
Rob- Yes, I'm glad I'm back also. I Missed posting around here. But thanks for the comments on the photos I posted. Appreciate it.
Well I'm a bit sad that I didn't get to post pics yesterday, but life goes on. I will next Wednesday!
Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
To Our ‘Steamed Proprietor – I have both of the books you mentioned; you’ll enjoy them. The printing quality is good, and, with a magnifying glass you can read the menus, publicity material, etc. that is included as illustrations.
A most eclectic and useful set of material re the Eads Bridge. Thank you.
I understand the difference between stories and sea stories. The same distinction applies when miners, steelworkers, etc. get together; often with the same preface. I believe we could swap a few (grin). Anyway, I had a friend who went to sleep in a Boston and Maine coach in North Station once and came to in Halifax - to this day he has no idea how he got there.
Mike provided some good links.
Zoiks – an Electroliner in its native habitat! Never got a chance to ride the North Shore. Those trains had food service; one of the items was an “Electroburger.” Ah, well – the information that occupies otherwise valuable space in our memories.
The P motor was a fine picture. They came east after electrification was shut down in Cleveland, and went through several r# on the NYC. IIRC, there were approx. 8 of them. Seven were used in revenue service and one served as a source for parts. I remember seeing them along the Hudson Division with various passenger trains; looked like a house on wheels. If I am not mistaken the picture was taken at Harmon. The building is a dead giveaway.
The T bucket is a nice picture as well. This was definitely taken at Harmon as I remember seeing them there. I am sure our ‘steamed proprietor is upset because the motor is obscuring the RDC car (LOL).
Now the challenge is to find a shot of an S motor. These were built c. 1905 and were still around in the 1970s. I remember very well seeing them pushing cars around at Grand Central, Mott Haven, and at Harmon. They were the pioneers of NYC electrification.
Nick – Sand table? Excellent! The Mentor Fusiliers will, of course, retreat immediately – in case they are attacked from behind. BTW, what shall we use for artillery?
DL has some more insightful info. As a native New Englander, I grew up surrounded by, and taking outside visitors to, historic sites. Yes, I did have ancestors who fought in the Revolution. Anyway, the term for those who remained with the Crown, was “Loyalists.” They did not fare very well at the hands of the other side.
If you have not read any of the following, see if you can find them. First is David McCullough’s 1776. Next is McCullough’s biography of John Adams. Last is a fairly new one by Edward G. Lengel titled, General George Washington – A Military Life. Lengel is Associate Editor of the George Washington Papers – a monstrous seemingly never-ending project. All of these books are well-written and give balanced portrayals of their respective subjects. And all you thought we did was trains...
To whet your appetite, the Old Colony (New Haven) had a Boat Train. It was one of the hottest trains on the railroad.
Rob is with us - why is it that the training always takes place whn you have lotsa other stuff to do as well?
Will be offline for awhile again as we go north to the heart of NYC country. I am in hopes of getting some material written ahead for future posts, especially as we draw closer to the holiday season. Will also be attending the Western New York RHS Train Show on Saturday; this is always a good one and a chance to see folks I don’t get to visit with all that often. I'm the old guy in the filthy Carhartt jacket. Mom will be watching Michigan and Ohio State; she’ll never know I’m gone.
Happy Thanksgiving to all
Work safe
G'day Gents!
Back for just a minute - Ruth go ahead and take a break, I'll watch the bar.
DL - sorry I had to run earlier, Juneau takes priority! <grin>
So, where were we Ah yes, your Posts of 8:07 AM & 9:52 AM today:
Let's go with the "Boat Trains" theme for Nov 28th. As mentioned in my previous narrative, methinks we'll have sufficient material to make it work. Now train ferries could be worked in for a later time - places like New York harbor, San Francisco bay and assorted other locations had and still have them. Terminology may be different, but the the concept is the same.
While hardly the aficionado for the tea drinkers anonymous of north America (TDANA) I think in comparison with those of you in the far eastern Atlantic, we rank a distant 2nd 'n 3rd in volume, capacity and desire when it come to drinking tea! Canda #2 - USA #3.
We've visited with those who are absolutely possessed by the "get it right demon" when it comes to the preparation of the stuff in those funny little bags! <grin> I'd rather spend my time tapping a keg or better yet, popping the top on a can of my favorite beverage - Keiths Ale from Halifax!
So that's YOUR coat, eh I'd be just a bit wary when putting your arms into the sleeves. Seems that Awk, our flying mascot, has taken a liking to it - red IS his favorite color. He may have "used" the sleeves for a temporary resting place. <oooooh>
In all of our travels to Nova Scotia, I'd say the overwhelming number of people we've developed friendships with are NOT native of the province. Funny, but so many are from elsewhere in Canada - several retired in the Halifax area upon conclusion of their military careers. That's what my bride's father did after 30 years with the RCAF. Others, like my late friend in Dartmouth, came over from Scotland with his wife from the London area. And it goes on and on - not that many "natives" and therefore, not too much in terms of local history and heritage.
Yes, many from the New England area did indeed head north when our revolution gained steam. Suppose there was a connection in that the place was called "New" <grin>
Anyway, depending on who writes the history and how it gets translated (I detest revisionists!!) I too would have been for independence no matter where the soverign power was located. Dumping the tea into the harbor was and remains quite the symbol of rebellion in many texts, in spite of efforts to purge the pages of anything at all smacking of patriotism, nationalistic pride and the like. A topic for 'nother time, eh
A true story: Once upon a time . . . . Before getting into this, you DO know the difference between a fairy tale and a "sea" story Fairy tales begin with "Once upon a time," whereas Sea stories start off with, "This is No S--T!!" Anyway, where was I Ah, yes - decades ago while in a bar in St. Johns, Newfoundland, the barkeep served up brew that was so full of foam and airy, that I commented that whoever tapped the keg didn't do it right. He overheard me and challenged me on the spot. We discussed the various methods of tapping beer kegs and wound up with me in the dark, dank basement, showing him how to do it! No joke . . . brew was much better after that - probably because is was on the house! <grin> Probably couldn't do that today if my life depended on it .... ah, youth!
On a new note - for those of you planning to attend our 2nd Annual Rendezvous in St. Louis - we'll be crossing the Eads bridge on our MetroLink excursion.
Gotta get about the day!
Ruth, give 'em what they please, and Boris, ring the bell!
Hi Tom
Just calling by to put my fish and chips order in - and to say I can't resist saying that those guys north of the 49th are the loyal colonials (ha ha). No doubt a reward accorded them for keeping the tea out of the harbour (mind you - does not help ensure you can get a decent cup of tea in Canada these days - my recent visit had to end up with me giving instructions on how to brew at the restaurant I was in in Halifax - mind you - and this goes for the US of A too - the credit is due as the staff were only too happy to follow the request - sadly you would not get that sort of courtesy this side of the pond if the position was reversed in all cases!).
Actually - on a serious note I was very interested to learn in halifax that there was a strong influx to Nova Scotia of New Englanders who did not want to break with the Crown back during the war of independence. That was something I knew nothing about. Have to say though that had I been there at the time I think I'd have been with the rebels!
Anyway - been thinking Tom - if the Boat Train services were not a big thing your way maybe we could include Train Ferries too - I'm sure some of them exist as I recall pictures in Classic Trains not so long ago.
Is that my red coat hanging on the hook by the door....
See you later
Great Railroad Bridges - #5
Used with permission from Wikipedia.com
The Eads Bridge is a combined road and railway bridge over the Mississippi River at St. Louis, connecting St. Louis and East St. Louis, Illinois.
The bridge is named for its designer and builder, Captain James B. Eads. When completed in 1874, the Eads Bridge was the longest bridge in the world, with an overall length of 6,442 feet (1,964 m). The ribbed steel arch spans were considered daring, as was the use of steel as a primary structural material. The steel came from Andrew Carnegie on behalf of the Keystone Steel Company, the first such use of steel in a major bridge project and the beginning of Carnegie's extremely successful career in steel.
The Eads Bridge was also the first bridge to be built using cantilever support methods exclusively, and one of the first to make use of pneumatic caissons. The Eads Bridge caissons, still among the deepest ever sunk, were responsible for one of the first major outbreaks of "caisson disease" (also known as "the bends"), and thirteen workers died.
The Eads Bridge is still in use, and stands on the St. Louis riverfront between Laclede's Landing on the north and the grounds of the Gateway Arch to the south. Today the road deck has been restored, allowing vehicle and pedestrian traffic to cross the river. The rail deck has been in use for the St. Louis Metrolink light rail line since 1993.
A panoramic image of Eads Bridge
History
The Eads Bridge was constructed as the first link to Illinois over the Mississippi River at St. Louis. The domination of the river trade was no longer as important as before the War between the States, and Chicago was fast gaining as the center of commerce in the West. The Bridge was conceived as a solution to the futile quest to reverse this new found eminence.
The Eads Bridge under construction, 1870s
The bridge, generated in controversy, was also considered a radical design solution, though the ribbed arch had been a known construction technique for centuries. The triple span, tubular metallic arch construction was supported by two shore abutments and two mid-river piers. Four pairs of arches per span (upper and lower) were set eight feet apart, supporting an upper deck for vehicular traffic and a lower deck for rail traffic.
Construction involved varied and confusing design elements and pressures. State and federal charters precluded suspension or draw bridges, or wood construction. There were also constraints on span size and regarding the height above the water line. The location dictated a change from the low Illinois floodplain of the east bank to the high Missouri cliff on the west bank of the river. The bedrock was exceedingly deep.
Eads Bridge from East Riverfront MetroLink station, Illinois side (photo by: Larry Pieniazek - GNU Free Doc.)
These pressures resulted in a bridge noted as innovative for precision and accuracy of construction and quality control. Utilization of cast chromium steel components is arguably the first use of structural alloy steel in a major building construction. (Though the bridge as actually completed contained large - and unknown - amounts of wrought iron.) Eads argued that the great compressive strength of steel was ideal for use in the upright arch design. This decision resulted from a curious combination of chance and necessity, due to the insufficient strength of alternative material choices.
The particular physical difficulties of the site stim
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