"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and fellow Ourplacinauts! I'll have my usual three light breakfasts with a side of some brain-food to help me remember that I chose the 22nd and not the 20th as the day we hit 200 pages on this thread. Actually I'm thinking it looks like the 23rd now, but never know. Someone may do something crazy, like list an entire steam roster from the UK or something .... right pwolfe?

Ted, it's great to have you back! Don, your book sounds interesting ...did I ever tell you what I wanted for Christmas this year?

Here's Part II of my India series. If I somehow get this whole article typed in time, we would definitely be at 200 pages by the 22nd!

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Meter gauge 4-6-2 has wind gauge on dome and pin-wheel on smokebox front.


The war years of 1939-45 brought about tremendous wear and tear on the Indian Railways. While many of the workshops were called upon to manufacture ammunition and arms for the war effort the regular maintenance on equipment went out the window. The partition of India and Pakistan in 1947 didn’t help matters as main lines in Bengal and Assam became cut so that revisions in service had to be undertaken. India’s independence from Britain also came that same year. At the same time, the flow of passenger and freight traffic increased, tremendously burdening the railways even more. This led the Government to step in and take over full and final control, which led to the last stage in development of the railway system.

Desperate for new motive power, the Indian Railway received at least 909 broad gauge freight locomotives from the U.S. and Canada during the period 1943-49. The American locomotives (from Baldwin) included 60 class AWC 2-8-0s and 40 heavy class AWE 2-8-2s. The rest of the engines were 2-8-2 design and were classed AWD (American War Department) or CWD (Canadian War Department). Most of those locomotives are still hard at work.

After the war it was resolved that the country should start reducing its dependence on foreign import of replacement parts and new equipment by furthering its own domestic production. To broaden self sufficiency, the Chittaranjan Locomotive Works in W. Bengal between Asanol and Madhupur was set up in 1950 to produce standard locomotives based on foreign import designs. A new 4-6-2 was built, class WP (Wide gauge Passenger), patterned after a 15-unti order from Baldwin in 1947 with bar frames. A total of 755 of these sleek, streamlined machines were built between 1947 and 1967. They were originally designed for express work, but because of their relatively small driving wheels and unstability at high speeds have been restricted to medium and slow speed passenger service up to 50 mph. Many sport distinctive boxpok wheels with others using the standard spoke versions. Built as simply as possible, they have no automatic stokers so require the full use of two firemen. The distinctive bullet noses remind one of the Norfolk & Western’s streamlined 4-8-4s. One can find these engines decorated with star patterns on the noses and various other colors and decorations depending on the shed and engineer to which they are assigned.

In addition to the common WP types in service today, 104 lighter Pacifics, class WL were built along with 30 2-8-4Ts designed for heavy suburban services. These types are an increasingly rare sight to see in operation.

By far the easiest class of locomotives to see in action are the WG (Wide Gauge Goods) 2-8-2s which are prevalent to the point of being boring. The first 100 were built in Britain in 1950, after which the Chittaranjan Works made a total of 2,450 machines by the time production ceased in 1970. They use the same boiler, motion, and other parts as the WP class engines, but have smaller driving wheels. Although some are typically grimy, many have silver smokebox fronts decorated in various geometric designs. It is an impressive sight to watch one of these massive giants pound by shaking the earth. Since diesels and electrics have taken over a big portion of the freight hauling duties, these engines can now be seen in local passenger service as well as goods traffic.

Just as important as the broad gauge is the meter gauge system totaling 40 percent of system trackage. During the 1939-45 was effort, hundreds of class MAWD (Meter gauge American War Department) 2-8-2s were ordered from Baldwin to help increase traffic flow. Today these classes are simplified to just WD. After the war, to try and cope with the large numbers of over-age locomotives, a program of producing steam locomotives of just four designs was put into effect. These are near copies of their wide gauge brothers built after WWII except for smoke deflectors. YP (Meter gauge passenger) 4-6-2s were produced in numbers totaling 871 along with 1,074 YG (Meter gauge goods) 2-8-2s. The 2-8-2 type was produced at Chittajaran up until February, 1972 when all steam production ceased. In addition, 264 of the lighter class YL 2-6-2s were put into service for branch line work. Finally a total of twelve 2-6-4Ts class YM were used in short distance passenger duties. Most of these locomotives were built at national locomotive works at Chittajaran or by the private Telco Company (Tate Engineering & Locomotive Company) located at Jamshedpur in Bihar.

In 1940 there were 40,000 miles of narrow gauge serving the rural population with passenger and freight service. Many of these lines were privately owned or property of the state, but many were owned by major railways. By 1947 the lines came under the jurisdiction of the Indian government. Although today’s mileage is less than half the original, many of the narrow gauge lines retain their pre-independence motive power, a bonanza to the visiting rail-fan. The most common two foot, six inch locomotives built after 1947 did come under the Indian Railway Standards for design. The class ZB 2-6-2 built in the early ‘50s are based on a Bagnell design. Heavier class ZE 2-8-2s are also in service.

A logical and farsighted development in 1925 was the introduction of electric traction. Victoria Terminus in Bombay to Kurla was the first branch section to see electric traffic. In 1961 Chittajaran Locomotive Works began to produce electric traction models and so far has manufactured 800 units in addition to diesel locomotives. Today about 12 percent of the broad gauge trackage is electrified primarily from Calcutta to Delhi and around the Bombay area. Also a section of meter gauge south of Madras is under juice. Main line electrification uses a European 50-cycle, 25kV design. At the present, the Chittajaran Works has electric locomotives in surplus for export.

It is an amazing sight to watch three packed electric suburban trains of 10,000 persons unload almost at the same time at Howrah or Sealdah stations in Calcutta. Within six or seven minutes the sea of humanity has dispersed and their places are taken by outbound passengers. The electric trains glide out of the station just in time for another batch to arrive. To be caught up and carried along in one of these mass exoduses is a bewildering experience which surpasses even rush hour on the New York subway. These efficient people movers are pleasing to watch in motion. Since temperatures range only from a low of 70 degrees in major cities during December through February to well over 100 during the humid summer months, most of the local Indians like a nice breeze whenever possible. As a result most of the automatic sliding doors are kept open by gutsy commuters hanging on the outside around the doors and on the roofs as the trains fly by at 50 mph. This provides a rainbow of colors to behold with coats, shirts, and women’s silk saris flapping in the wind.

Muggy weather in southern India was hardly improved by ceiling fans


[:I] much much more to follow ... but will it be here in time? [:I]

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

We open at 6 AM all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]

[A “Tuesday way” to continue this countdown to Christmas is to spend a bit of time with us by ordering a <light> breakfast from the menu board – have a cup of freshly brewed coffee and try some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery! [tup]


Daily Wisdom:

When two play, one wins.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST:
What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?] BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]
(in order of participation)
pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
ftwNSengineer P . . . . . . . Dec 23rd . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
jlampke John . . . . . . . . . Dec 24th (noon) . . . . . siberianmo Tom

CONTEST CLOSED!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 05:24:51 (196) Inclusive Post! & Caboose history

(2) wanswheel Mike Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 06:22:03 (196) Arlo Guthrie, City of New Orleans

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 07:00:30 (196) Acknowledgments, etc.

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 07:28:11 (196) Monday’s Info & Summary

(5) jdonald Don Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 08:35:04 (196) Pix explanations, etc.

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 08:45:56 (196) Birthday Watch List!

(7) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 10:09:05 (196) Morning pick-us-up Post!

(8) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:00:49 (196) etc.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:39:23 (196) Acknowledgments, etc.

(10) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 15:00:19 (196) etc.

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 15:17:08 (196) NOSTALGIA #46 – Ad – CP (1949)

(12) passengerfan Al Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 17:46:55 (197) Streamliner #30 – City of Portland

(13) barndad Doug Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 17:50:51 (197) Steam Delights of India, Part I

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 18:29:09 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 18:46:59 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(16) jdonald Don Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 19:33:42 (197) Tank engines, etc.

(17) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 19:47:52 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:23:16 (197) Acknowledgments,, etc.

(19) pwolfe Pete Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:27:02 (197) Inclusive Post, etc.

(20) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:35:39 (197) reply to pwolfe

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom Time for a cup of coffee full strength and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

Maybe in the next day or two I will get a chance to catch up on the postings, Did catch your comment on tax and mortgage brokerage yesterday had never thought about it in that light but it sure has the wheels turning now. Guess I should throw in the Notary License and I have it all covered.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #31

ROYAL BLUE B&O June 24, 1935 Jersey City - Washington round trip daily 223.6 miles each way 447.2 miles round trip daily 3 hours 30 minutes each way.

The lightweight streamlined ROYAL BLUE consist was constructed by American Car & Foundry Co. of Aluminum with a steel center sill.
At the same time EMC constructed a boxcab diesl with two 900 HP Winton diesels located in the carbody giving the unit 1,800 HP total.
The B&O shops also constructed a streamlined 4-6-4 locomotive named the LORD BALTIMORE to compare the two types of power.

CONSIST

2 LORD BALTIMORE Streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive & Tender
or
50 EMC 1,800 HP Boxcab Diesel Passenger Double Ended Cab Unit

5750 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

5800 64-Revenue Seat Coach

5801 64-Revenue Seat Coach

5802 64-Revenue Seat Coach

5700 9-Seat Lunch Counter 32-Seat Dining Car

5930 24-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Seat Parlor Drawing Room

5931 24-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Seat Parlor Drawing Room

5998 18-Revenue Seat Parlopr 15-Seat Lounge Observation

In July 1936 the Railway Post Office Compartment was removed and and replaced with an additional 36 revenue coach seats.

In January 1937 a new 60-revenue seat coach 5806 was constructed in the B&O shops and added to the ROYAL BLUE.

For further ROYAL BLUE infoirmation see the new ROYAL BLUE inaugurated April 25, 1937

TTFN AL

[wanswheel]

Good morning Tom and everyone and what a purty tree

Pete from the pictures Kansas City has a magnificent station. The walls look like marble.
Tom in my 1956 atlas Missouri seems unique in that it had 2 major rail hubs, each with more than a dozen routes converging from all directions.

Doug your author's arithmetic is food for thought. If in 1982 the 1.3 million employees of the Indian Railway were 1/ 20th of the total workforce, that's only 26 million breadwinners to feed about 3/4 of a billion people. Holy Cow!

Don I have a question: Do you know if the Long Island Rail Road used suburban engines? Long Island is as suburban as it gets. No escape without driving through at least 2 boroughs of New York City.

P if I understand your post correctly, that your Grandfather Guthrie passed tragically, I'm sorry.

The City of New Orleans was written by Steve Goodman, who also died too young. Just the perfect song to describe the rail scene of his era. He also wrote the perfect Country Western song, with lyrics like,
"Well I was drunk the day my Mom got out of prison..."

I wonder why the railroads don't keep that "little red caboose behind the train." Sure, obsolete and costs money, but almost everybody, even someone who is not "into" trains likes to see a caboose. IMHO the favorable "last" impression the caboose leaves on the viewer is worth its weight in corporate good will.

Merry Christmas Nick and thanks for packing so much energy and imagination into the transcript of this thread.

Al it looks like Tom is trying to make you work a little harder and add pictures to your consists. He's just trying to get you into shape for tax season.

Ted to a little boy without a TV, Gene Autry's voice said it all:
Rudolph with your nose so bright, won't you guide my sleigh tonight?
Here comes Santy Claus here comes Santy Claus right down Santy Claus Lane!

[Anonymous]

Good morning early birds. Hi Tom, I only poked my nose in for a quick hello before departing for the V.A. scene. Maybe just a Folgers and a toasted English muffin w/cream cheese for now. Good idea for the Gals and "we few" getting together on a low profile status. I'm still in a quandry as to Dec. 29 and CM3's Birthday Bash??? [:O] Barndad Doug, this is great stuff on the Sub Continent railways. P.B.S. ran a couple of (1 hour) documentaries on the last of the retiring Mainline steam loco's some years ago. It appears electrics are taking over in a big way. However, not before a huge celebration for retiring the venerable heavy steam locos all decorated to each Engineers personal fancy and competing for "best design." No question that the people of India loved their steam trains with an alomost spiritual reverence. I was astonished that anything ever moved at all because of the suffocating government bureaucracy inherited from the old British colonial rule in the 1800's. Who can say no to the charms of the narrow gauge steam trains, of which, the Darjleen mountain run was originally built for Royalty from both countries to escape the summer heat of the big cities. Some areas of China still run steam and "back waters" of South American countries have some remote traces around. For the most part, it is excursions, museums, restoration clubs or nothing at all.[V]

Good grief, I've got to get a move on. So, it's bon voyage to Nick and thanks to all who keep "Our" Place the cyber refuge it has come to be. Happy rails.

[jdonald]

Mornin Tom & all-how about a light breakfast, coffee black and one for yourself.

You mentioned that you are a diesel man-guess my attachment to the steam loco goes back to my impressionable pre-teen and early teen years and still being able to see steam in action. At that time the diesel was to be scorned-but as time went on that attitude softened. Now anything that runs on rails is of interest.

wanswheel regarding the LIRR-curiously enough the book I mentioned doesn't list any steam locos for the LIRR. I believe that at one time the PRR had a connection with the LIRR[?] The PRR listings shows no tank locos. Not much of an answer to your question but I will keep looking.

Al echoing Toms comment about pix to accompany your streamliner series. Would be interesting to see what that EMC box cab looked like with streamliner consist.

Well better spend some time on the dreaded Christmas shopping[:(]

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Assembled; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

RE Birthday bash; several pages ago I suggested that we postpone it until after New Years because folks will be busy with holiday activities, etc. Of course, maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, and I just THINK I made that post. Anyway, let's hold off until after New Years.

That being said, here's some of the (printable) words to "Deck Us All With Boston Charlie." We'll get Boris to set the tempo with that big club he keeps behind the bar.

Deck us all with Boston Charlie
Walla Walla Wash., and Kalamazoo
Nora's freezin' on the trolley
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!

Dopn't we know archaic barrek
Lullaby Lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold
Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

Total nonsense, for sure, but it ran every year in the Sunday Pogo strip closest to Christmas.

Herb Harwood, Jr. wrote an excellent book on the Royal Blue. I believe it has been reprinted and should still be available; certainly a beautiful train. Also, fascinating material on India. I recall the PBS programs and they were good ones. I have a mining engineer friend who spent a lot of time in India, and he told some fascinating stories about riding some of their trains. If you think the cooking on the cars was fun, he had quite a few comments re the facilities (or lack thereof - as he said, there's no such thing as holding tanks).

The other night I was looking up some information on piggyback trains and found this piece of advertising.

It's from the L&N - about 1969. An interesting choice of names, although I never heard these trains called by name . I was living deep in the heart of L&N country then, and the railroad folks called them "Totes." This was a generic name on the L&N for all TOFC service.

Day or Night Deparrtures Wtih L&N's two all-piggyback Dixie Flyers between Midwest and South

Ship With a Piggyback Leader
Between Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati
and
Atlanta, Tampa, Jacksonville and Miami

Automobile Terminals - Paved, fenced, and lighted facilities are provided at Atlanta, Birmingham, Louisville, Memphis, Nashville, and New Orleans.

One other piece of L&N material tying back to the comments on caboose(s) earlier. The L&N participated in some run-through activity back in the late 60s and early 70s. One of these trains was off the Missouri Pacific. It had MP power and either MP or T&P cabs (depending on what day it was). Also the L&N as it became a shall we say, bigger and bigger player, had cabs from other roads on their trains as well. These included: SAL, ACL, SCL, CEI, and Monon. IOW, you never knew what was going to be on their trains.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

We had a rather interesting day yesterday and wound up with a respectable number of Posts to show for it. Thanx to all for helping to keep us “up” on the Forum!

As Christmas draws ever closer, I expect we’ll see fewer ‘n fewer Posts. The bar ‘n grill will remain open throughout this Christmas and holiday season, but take note of the following:

Christmas Eve – CLOSE at 6 PM (all time zones!)

Christmas Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – even the mail slots will be “blocked.”

New Year’s Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – mail slots “open,” but NO PIX!


To the acknowledgments:

barndad Doug
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 05:50:39

Ourplaceinauts [?][?] Well, that’s surely ….. different. Hmmmmmm. Methinks Doug needs a train trip! [swg]

You are doin’ your best to ensure a good shot at the “prize” and I’d say given a real drought with the Posts, you and P are neck ‘n neck. Now, I could always Post all of my Fallen Flags Nostalgia pieces, the Veterans/Remembrance Day Posts, the Christmas Posts thus far, etc., etc. That would skew the results, eh [?] [swg]

Thanx for the round AND quarters! [tup][tup]

We need to come up with an appropriate name for the Pickled Pig’s Feet Jar that has become the repository for the quarters feeding Herr Wurltizer! Thought perhaps something reflective of the “Chief Donor,” CM3 would be appropriate … any thoughts out there [?] (repeated request at least thrice!)

passengerfan Al
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:52:03

So the question IS: Are there ANY licenses “out there” that you do NOT have [?] <geesh> You’ve got the “market cornered” as the saying goes! [swg] You must bring along some of your “fold out” business cards for the guys at our Rendezvous in Toronto! this May. <grin>

Good stuff, as always regarding the ongoing effort with your Streamliner Corner. You really need to add some URLs to round out the “rest of the story.” [tup]


A request – If anyone “out there” can help in locating appropriate URLs – please do so. Find ‘em and ship ‘em off to Al by Email. Just click on his cyber name here on the thread to begin the Email process. Thanx!


wanswheel Mike
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:56:51

Mornin’ Mike A nice bit of work regarding your Post – only thing missing was an order for “something” – so without further delay, Tweeeeeeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeeeeet! Rules Violation, Rules Violation! Rule #2, failure to order a drink and/or food! Boris Ring the bell – drinks are on Mike – OJ all around! [swg]

Good effort, nonetheless! [tup][tup] Also, I appreciate your taking the time to acknowledge our Christmas Tree!.

Comment: Acknowledgments are far ‘n few between when it comes to items within the SUMMARY. Perhaps they too will be “history” as we get into 2006. I’m leaning in that direction. Pointless to keep putting “stuff” out that isn’t being commented on, much less read.

Also, haven't seen hide nor hair of Trainnutr484 Russell since Dec 4th or West Coast S Dave since Dec 6th. A sad situation, given that these two were really quite dependable regulars. Times, things and people change .....


Theodorebear Ted
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:13:20

Appreciate your stoppin’ by before heading out on your rounds for the day. Hospitals, doctors, et al at this time of year just shouldn’t factor in. However, I too have those “things” penciled in on my calendar, throughout the 12 months. Hope all goes well. [tup]

jdonald Don
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:40:01

We are what we eat – or something like that. I think our preferences in most things in life have lots to do with our experiences early on. With me it was those gleaming streamliners in New York City’s Grand Central Terminal and Pennsylvania Station back in the 40’s and 50’s. Diesels had just about “pushed out” the steam loco’s whenever I think back to the trips we took, they always had diesel or GG-1 power. As time passes, I too grow more ‘n more fascinated with anything rolling along on steel rails. Good point.

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:59:05

Good stuff all – even that horrid set of “lyrics,” from your tribute to Pogo. <ugh> Got a laugh out of it anyway – so what does that say about moi [?] [swg]

Regarding YOUR Birthday Bash!! we got the “message.” Believe me, since I am the “Schedule maker what’s in charge (SMWIC) ‘round here – it takes TIME to line these things up simply to ensure a respectable turnout. So c’mon – look at January’s calendar, and go for it. Otherwise, when Dec 29th rolls around, we’re celebrating in spite of you! [swg] We haven’t had a good bash around here in a long time ……. You’re “up” next!

If there’s “one thing” I come away with from reading your inputs it is that the railroads had ever changing “faces.” Nothing was cast in stone, so to speak. I’ve seen that with the Fallen Flags that I’ve posted, especially when they take in just a snippet of time – never all inclusive. How could they [?] Ever changing – always adjusting, etc. There are more than a few – especially on my “other thread” who seem to delight in finding what they believe are errors – rather than take the info simply for what it is – info. One guy thinks that just because he traveled on a particular train in a particular month within a particular year that the train “lived on” for decades, or was indeed in operation prior to his experiences. Therefore, my “info” was incorrect. Where’s Pogo when we need him [?] [swg]

Thanx for the round – as always and the quarters! [tup][tup]


Later, Gents!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[jdonald]

Afternoon Tom & all: I'll have the usual Alex Keith and one for yourself.

Forgot to mention this A.M.--the treemendus Christmas tree. Thats great, esp with the train running by it.

Pogo comics[:)] man I remember them when I was a kid.

On the subject of dieseldom-I also have another excellent Kalmbach book-"Diesel Locomotives: The First 50 Years" by Louis A. Marre. It covers all diesels built before 1972 which I think are the most interesting. It is broken down between Manufacturers and then by model and then which railway had this model and how many. If anybody wants to know something about the first generations diesels let me know.

Speaking of diesels-here is a subject to discuss(hope it hasn't been done before I joined) Why were virtually all British diesel locos built with cabs at both ends, while virtually all N. Amer. were built with only one cab. Even more more mysterious-why were all N. Amer. electric locos built with cabs at both ends[?]Something to ponder maybe.

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Good questions you bring to the bar, Don - never quite thought of either aspect. Why, indeed on both counts [?] My guess is we'll get some info from earlydiesels Dan & pwolfe Pete to enlighten us.

I'd like to know a bit more about the progression through the F series of diesels. In some cases they all look the same - but then upon closer inspection, one can begin to identify the F3 from the F7, etc. Anything on that, along with perhaps a URL or two would be of interest. [tup]

Thanxs for the Keith's Pale Ale - man oh man I just love the stuff! [swg] On one of my trips between Montreal and Halifax the Park car (observation dome) didn't have any on board AND on one of our stops of 20 minutes or so, departed the train to pick up a 12-pack. Now how's that for service [?] It was a VIA Rail person with whom I had traveled serveral times and obviously was quite a gesture on his part. To this day when our path's cross, I always bring up the situation - and he remembers it. Ahhhhhhh, sitting up in the dome, watching the world pass by - night or day - is all made just a tad better with a Keiths in hand! [swg]

Enough for now .. Enjoy the day!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #47

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Northern Pacific (NP) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . See Nature’s greatest show at . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . YELLOWSTONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

SEETHING GEYSERS and growling mudpots . . .

. . . . . steaming hot springs and lacy waterfalls . . .

. . . . . . . . . . begging bears and aloof antelope . . .

no wonder visitors never tire of talking about their Yellowstone trip on the streamlined North Coast Limited.

Make this your year to tour America’s biggest, strangest national park . . .

. . . . . but make your reservations soon! North Pacific – “the Yellowstone Park line” – will send literature about Yellowstone and other places you want to visit out West.

Write G. W. Rodine, Dept. 339, Northern Pacific Railway, St. Paul 1, Minn.

. . . . . . . . . . NORTHERN PACIFIC . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . YELLOWSTONE PARK LINE . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[West Coast S]

Seasons greetings Tom and all... Eggnogg with a jigger of rum if you please.



OK, i'm still in catchup mode, but several topics did peak my interest of late... Yellow Bananas for the UP passenger fleet? interesting..not heard that term used before, I have heard the term " the Armour Fleet"obviously a quip to the shade of yellow chosen.




Tom..........a history of the F unit is further complicated by the numerous rebuilds performed by the railroads and EMD..For example FTs would be rebuilt with F7 side panels but retain orginal roof configuration, or be completely reskinned with no trace of orginal heritage remaining. Yet one could also be upgraded internally with no visible modifications except for a fan swap, EMD modified the door frame design on several occasions and this would also help define a upgrade, also the nose was refined over the years and several FT/F3 fleets recieved these upgrades, sometimes with no changes to the side panels, EMD did provide a nose/number board and fuel tank retrofit program.

Many roads elected to upgrade early F units to F9 specs, replacing belt driven machinnery and pulleys, mechanical relays with generator powered accesories and solid state electronics. WP and RG where examples that boasted rebuilt FTs to these specs. Then you have the odd EMD model that were transation designs, the F2, F5, employing useable, proven features from a earlier design, but offering improvements demanded by the customer. Ok are we confused yet? The FT evolved into to F2 which then evolved into the F3, the F3 eliminated the belts driving the cooling fans and a burn proof design for the dynamic brakes was achieved, a severe sore point on the FT was the dynamic brakes and their means of control.. The F3 evolved into the F7, the timming couldn't have been more perfect as the drive to eliminate steam was in full force across the country, EMD with fifteen years of on the road experience was ready to fill that need.

The F9 sold in vary small numbers, hood units were in vouge and EMD offered a F9 to appease those loyal cab unit unit customers who were quickly fading from the idea of the cab design. SP ordered F9's in 1959 for example, the order was cancelled and resubmitted for geep 9's. Rio Grande aquired its small F9 fleet via rebuilds by EMD in which RG provided a now obsolote F3/FT hulk. WP considered the F9, as in the SP , the geep 9 was chosen instead. Only the Canadian Railways expressed any interest in the F9 to any degree. The IC offered a F10 built in it's Puduca Ky, shops that gained some popularity among the MRC, former GM&O F3s provided the fodder for these high tech rebuilds.

Ok on to other things.. As to why North American diesels have but one cab, vrs, two.. typically the American train is heavier then its European counterparts, requiring MU capability, not to much to have them in opposite postions, also most roads long ago eliminate turining facalities making a cab on either end mandatory. Also the cost of having a cab and all the necessary equiptment not in use 50% of the time would be intollerable in todays dollars. Now, the WP considered a F unit in the trailing position a waste of motive power and the practice was forbidding.
Baldwin did produce some double cab designs for the Central Railway of New Jersey, these units were restricted to commute duties were turnaroud time was of the essence. GE produced the Turbine 50 with a cab on each end, UP who later purchased the unit sealed it up for incressed fuel capacity, UP considered the duel cab a complete waste of resources. EMC box motors, the predecessor to the E series were built with duel cabs, but the primary contractor, St. Louis Car Works was familar with this design due to years involved with heavy interurban equiptment assembly.


Ok Boris, i've got to get back to the task which pays my bills..

MARRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Dave

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please is it still on Mike's tab[?].

WANSWHEEL MIKE. Yes Kansas City's Union Station is Magnificent. There was an article in Trains mag, in the late 1990s, about the renovation. There was a great deal of work that had to be done. I believe that in the early part of next year a bridge is being erected over the railtracks outside the station. Hopefully this will attract more visitors. I dont know if the model railways in the entrance hall are going to be there year round or are just during the Christmas period.

CM3 Can you tell me what is a Piggyback or Tote train. Is it the same as a Road-Railer [?].

DOUG Many thanks for the posts on the Indian Railways, and TED and CM3 for the extra info. Where I worked in the 70s there were some lads from India and would visit relatives and they used to tell me about their journies behind the steam trains. One lad offered to let me accompany him but unfortunatly I hadn't got the funds to do it. The Darjeeling Hill Railway still operates mainly I believe as a tourist attraction although it has suffered from land-slides in recent years. The British railway magazines covered Indian Railways in the last days of their steam engines but I have not read anything about them lately.
Although there WAS a piece about a diesel loco that hit a baby elephant, its mother apparently saw this and repeatedly charged the loco making it a total failure. At least B.R. and Amtrak coudn't use this as a reason for a train delay [(-D] Looking forward to future posts on the Indian Railway.[tup].

AL Thanks for the Royal Blue. Surely the Hudson was a lot more powerful than the 1800HP diesel[?].

DON It seems my railway days were similier to yours. When I first got interested in railways ( at a very young age) there was only 5 Main-Line diesels on the lines near my home. I also lost interest in railways when steam finished (in 1968) and missed some interesting diesel classes especially in Scotland. By 1973 a lot of the early classes had gone. [sigh].

Interseting point about the single-cab locos. There were some single-cab locos on B.R.( not counting switchers) most were short lived although the class20s first built in 1957, some of which are working today, were single- cab but nearly always worked in pairs with the cab ends outwards.
The class 91 electrics main power today on the East- Coast London-Edinburgh route have the main cab on the forward sloping end of the loco, at the rear of the loco,which has a flat end, is a smaller cab. This allows the loco to work with the flat end leading following a failure although at a reduced speed.I hope we can talk about this subject some more [tup].
DAVE Good to see you[tup]. Thanks for the info on the reason for the American single-cabs

TOM Great Christmas tree.[tup] Thanks for theNorthern Pacific Nostalgia. I hope none of the passengers got too near to the "begging bears" [:)]

Many Thanks for the E-Mails . PETE.

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin' Gents!

Well, a surprise - the return of West Coast S Dave once again (and again)! [swg] Glad you found us - thought for sure you got transferred to the Falklands or some other such place for "fallen angels!" [swg] Seriously, glad you are amongst us once again .... next time you decide to take off for weeks on end, how about a bit of notice! <geesh> Your [purple[Permanent Stool[/purple] awaits! [tup]

Appreciate the info on the F's as well as the explanation regarding the cabs. Hope it gets picked up .... I'm in a bit of a press for time, so I'll hold off thorough perusual of your Post 'til the mornin'.

Sorry I don't have time to stick around - heading out for the evenin' with my bride. So, Leon the Night Man has the bar until closing. Be nice to him - he likes to wear his nametag backwards this time of year. [swg]

Let's not forget to render the "social graces" expected at our bar 'n grill - greet the bartender and order a drink and some food. Hey! It's cyber land - this stuff has absolutely no calories and the price is right! [swg] <geesh> How difficult can that be [?]

Boris ring the bell and Leon a round for the house! [tup]

Catch y'all in the 'morrow!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! Dave has the right idiea with the eggnog ... so I'll have one too! I loved his informative and lengthy post on F units too. I'm sure he posted just to help me be the 200th page contest winner ... right? Please set yourself up with a Keith's, and set-up my buddies with their favorites. I'll have grilled steak if at all possible. I'm starving!

What a beautiful tree Tom! It was really nice to see it. I also want to thank you for the E-card ... it was wonderful, and you are very thoughtful to think of it. Liked your Nostalgia #47 of the NP .. sure wish I'd been around to see it, but as we all know, I'm only 25.

Another great streamliner series Al on the Royal Blue B&O! I didn't know they manufactured their own passenger cars. Sure appreciate your efforts with this series

Mike, I believe that the author of the India series wasn't implying that only railroad workers had the jobs ... just that they had 1/20th of the available workforce. Still, they made a better wage than most workers, I believe. Thanks for taking an interest in the series. I wasn't sure anyone would really care about it. Thanks too to Ted for your India Railroad observations.

CM3, that was an "interesting" poem. I don't think I have to worry about it getting stuck in my head though. I might just look up your book on the Royal Blue. Thanks for making us aware of it!

And now ... Here's part III in my India series:

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Heavy overhaul at Perambur shops in Madras on a WG 2-8-2


Varansi Diesel Locomotive Works set up in 1963 has produced over 300 diesel-electric locomotives based on an Alco design. In addition diesel switchers are produced at the Telco plant. Diesel rail cars are also produced in India.

Construction of freight equipment has been increased to such an extent that surplus units have been sold to such countries as Yugoslavia. Commodities as coal, iron and other ores, cement, fertilizers, food grains, and petroleum products are moved via rail.

Doubleheaded steam engines or multiple unit diesel lashups are rare with most freight trains averaging 25 to 50 cars. Unit coal, iron ore, and petroleum trains are utilized. Truck competition is keen, but roads are poor. The landscape over which Indian Railways operate is generally flat which is one reason why one unit can handle so many cars. The other reason why the Indian Railway can afford to run many short, one locomotive trains is because of low wages offered railroad employees. The average railroad engineer earns 125 rupees a week. With the dollar equaling eight Indian rupees this figures out to about 15 dollars a week. Compared to the average unskilled worker’s weekly take home pay of three dollars a week, the railroad profession is a highly desirable position in which to be employed in India.

In 1951-52 to show the union of the individual lines under the one banner of Indian Railway the old names like “Great Indian Peninsula,” and “Bombay, Baroda & Central India” disappeared in favor of grouping the railways by zones. The new names indicated the geographical areas where the lines were located. At first there were six groups, now increased to nine. They include the Southern, South Central, Central, Western, Northern, North Eastern, South Eastern, and North East Railways. Each one of these divisions has retained its own distinctive two-tone color scheme. The boiler, top half of the cab and tender sides are black while the lower parts reflect individual railway colors. Some engines are painted all one color such as maroon or dark green. One may find leaf green as the second color of the Central Railway engines, reddish brown for the Northern colors, orange for the Southern with some engines on the meter gauge in the south dressed in a pleasing dark blue hue. One comes across from time to time a spotless steed gleaming with polished brass. Such ornaments as a pin wheel affixed to the smoke box front or a brass wind direction indicator mounted on the boiler dome really set off an engine. These special additions occur when an engineer is assigned to a specific locomotive.

One may obtain some incredible travel bargains in India. A ticket entitling foreign nationals to “Travel As You Like” for three weeks may be purchased with a choice of AC (air conditioning) class at $200.00, I class/II AC class $80.00, and II class $25.00. An “All India Railway Timetable” for $1.00 is the railfan’s Bible while touring, but is available only in India at major stations.

Passenger service in India, although constantly improving, is at best slow on many trains. All the major cities are linked with fast “mail” and “express” trains having AC I/II class cars. Only about 35 board gauge trains and eight meter gauge trains have dining and buffet cars. Most of these trains are either diesel or electric hauled. The primiere “Rajdhani Express Mail” from Delhi to Calcutta, a distance of 892 miles, has the best running time of 16 hours to cover the route at an average speed of 55 mph on the board gauge. The “Rajdhani Express” traverses a broad gauge route from Bombay to Delhi, a distance of 860 miles, in 19 hours at an average speed of 45 mph. These special trains run only twice a week. The “Frontier Mail” covers the same route as the “Rajdhani Express” in 24 hours at an average speed of 35 mph, but if one is in the mood for a marathon excursion, this trains entire 1,223 mile route between Delhi and Calcutta can be covered in 36 hours. All long distance trains stop about once every hour for ten to twenty minutes so one may stretch the legs and perhaps photograph the head end power.

If the outside of a car has the words “air conditioning” spelled out, one can be assured of an air-cooled ride with sealed windows, but if the initials “AC” appear on the outside, this means there are fans installed in the ceiling to circulate the sometimes humid air. Air conditioned service is provided on about 30 broad gauge and 10 meter gauge trains. I class AC sleepers consist of two and four berth compartments, with upper and lower horizontal berths opening off a corridor with Western and Eastern style toilets and showers at each end. Some of these cars have bedding, towels and toilet paper available. (The traveler should be prepared with one’s own supply of toilet paper as it is nonexistent in II class sections and in many I class cars.) Each sleep has its own attendant. If a particular train does not have dining facilities on board, it is customary for the traveler to contact the car attendant and have him telegraph ahead to the next major station for a meal to be prepared which is delivered personally. One rule is that I class AC sleepers must be fully utilized during the hours of 6 a.m.-9 p.m. with six persons occupying the couch type seats. This gives one a chance to chat with Indian doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc. sharing the compartment. Except on certain special trains where bedding is available on the trains, it should be hired for a small rental fee at the beginning station and dropped off when detraining. Both meter and broad gauge sleepers have the same car layouts with a narrow corridor on meter gauge cars. II class sleepers have open instead of closed compartments as found in I class.

I class AC chair cars have very comfortable reclining plush leather seat with an amazing 2 ½ feet of leg room. Foot rests are an inclined plate rather than a metal bar. Arm rests, like those on airlines, flip down between seats. II class chair cars also have reclining seats.

It is not recommended that Western Travelers take advantage of second class accommodations in spite of the much cheaper cost, as wooden seats are very hard along with tremendous overcrowding. Also it is almost impossible to keep the car windows closed and free of the constant dust which settles on everything. I class cars have metal screens which may be pulled down to filter the air. All windows have horizontal metal bars to minimize breakage, which makes photography a bit difficult. If one is careful, the camera may be positioned between the bars.

WP Pacific just in with a morning train at Mettupailyam has star herald on nose


[:I] Thus endith part III [:I]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon,I'll have a nog as well,good festive idea ( the name tag ). Noticed that boris is wearing one green and one red shoe tonight and the antlers glued onto tex's head are also a nice touch.


Tom You picked quite a nice tree there[tup] good to see that you don't go for the charlie Brown type trees. i've been trying to think up an appropriate, name for the pigs feet jar. Though of a couple but I keep comming back to the "Coal scuttle " grandma used to call the coal loading door on her house that,a thought anyway.

Nice shots of the signs and critter's as well. Is it me or do those bears look like they may have been scared by the boys on one of their sunday Forays[?]

Ted Hope all goes well at the VA [tup]It was nice if Tom and Pete to think of you and post those pictures from union station. Is that indoor train there year round ?


Doug Wonderfull series on the Indian rail scene,like Tom I see the mental images of the sea of humanity clinging to the outside of the coaches as they wound through some failry trecherous,track work in the hills and valley's.


CM3 I had to giggle at the lyrics to that song. Reminds me of Stomoping tom Connor's TTC Skedaddler ( for some reason our museum friends kept requesting it at our wedding ) Likley only Don would know of it or Stomping Tom.


Don Nice info ,<continuing> on the tank engines. The diesel book you mentioned is quite a good tool. BTW if anyone wants specific numbers and dates on CNR/CPR locomotive classes aand numbers ( diesel ) Let me know i have, most of Donald Lewis's Rail Canada series.


Mike Thanks for the caboose info, I miss them myself . Like Tom the end of trains just aren't as exciting anymore. If I catch the "kitty litter rocket" ( CN train that switches a kitty litter/ aggregate plant here in Brantford two or three times a day ) it uses a caboose on the train as it has to back ,back to the station and yard,usually with 20-25 large jumbo covered hoppers,over what used to be a mix of old TH&B& LE&N 90lbs track. To make it more interesting it's imbedded in the city street and the ROW runs down between rows of houses to boot part of the way.

To answer your email question to me. ( Mike wanted to know what the difference was between a trolley and streetcar ) There is no real difference. In Canada most street railway passengers cars were refered to as streetcars. In the early days ( pre 1915 } The summer open cars were refered to as trolley's. After the open cars were banned in 1915 ( saftey reasons due to their side running boards and hand brakes ) both terms tended to be used interchangeably, though streetcar was the most common. I've noticed that in talking to many American friends and enthusiasts that the prefered term for all electric cars in the US was trolley with the term streetcar being the rarity. Seems to be mostly a regional thing.Similarly you will see me refer to certain cars as "radial's" our Museum's name is a case in point Halton County Radial Railway In Canada interurban lines ( city to city electric transit ) were known as Radials instead of the US term Interurban, again same thing different regional name. Our Museum took it's name because our ROW is an old radial line that was called the Toronto Suburban Radial Railway.( Ran Toronto to Guelph from 1917 to 1931)

Nick and Pete safe journies and a merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

Dave Nice to see you again,and thanks for the F unit info. I never fully understood the ins and outs of the FT's and the F2 ,F5 locos as none lived here in the great white North. In fact very few F3's actually were purchased for Canada. CPR started in with the F7's and CN only had a half dozen F3's ( all A units ) GT had a mit full of F3's a few dozen in fact if memory serves,all were later rebuilt to F7 standards along with their CN cousins. Most of the F9's in Canada were the FP9 varient with the passenger car heating boilers installed.



Well folks have a good evening. I'll be spotty the rest of this week. No rest for the wicked at work,i'll likley hit 10-20 hours of OT. [:O] I did manage to get the 24th off though so a three day break for me. < Woo Hoo > I can rest my back ( twisted it shovelling ) and catch up on lost [zzz]

Rob

[trolleyboy]

I figured that it's been a while so Leon another Irish Coffee please,so I'll drop another steam tidbit on everyone.

Classic CNR Steam #11 Passenger Train Profiles SW/Ontario PT 1


Number 5

LaSalle Montreal-Chicago. Dieselized Mar 5/57. Train splits at London, with 5 going to Pt Huron, 105 originating as Windsor section. Dinning car Toronto-London, compartment parlour car Toronto-Detroit ( transfered to 105 at London ). Comp. parlour car Toronto-Pt Huron. Handles express reefers of fish from East. Sarnia crews on Sarnia-Toronto leg.


Number 6

Inter- city Limited Chicago- Montreal. Dieselized 5/57,. Compartment parlour car from Detroit, cafe - parlour car from Windsor ( off 12 ). Lifts RPO,baggage,and express from #95 at Hamilton. In 1940's , this equipment had run to Toronto as advance section. Consited then of light engine,buffer car & ancient coaches. Sarnia crews Sarnia-Toronto.

Number 9

Toronto-Windsor. Last regular steam is 6234, apr 1957, laast steam altogether is 6207 Feb 1959. Toronto-Windsor express cars and Hamilton-London,& Hamilton-Windsor express reefers. Lifts express cars at Hamilton& Brantford. Sleeping car Toronto-Detroit . Mail storage car for London ( box baggage refridgerator type ), returning on number 40. Sets off express car at Chatham. Toronto tail end crews Toronto-London. London head end crews.

Number 10

Windsor-Toronto via Stratford. Diesels first used in march 1959.Last steam was 6230 out of Windsor,6247 out of London Mar 21/59. Sleeping car Detroit-Toronto. Express car Windsor-Hamilton. Lifts express car at Chatham,express reefers at Jeannettes's Creek. Baggage car mail service London-Toronto. Extra commuter coaches added at Stratford ( winter ) Guelph ( summer ). London Head end crews,Toronto tail end crews.


Number 11/111/141

Toronto-London via Stratford. From mar 22/59 to end of steam,engine cycled back to toronto on #40. ast steam was 6211 april 8/1959.Normally baggage car and three or four coaches out of Toronto. Occasional express reefer or box-baggage. Commuter coaches set off at Guelph (summer) Stratford ( winter ). London head end crew, Toronto tail crew.

Number 12

Windsor-London Inter-city Limited Last steam was 5700,apr 14/1959. Combined with number 6 at London. Baggage car,one or two coaches,comp-parlour car from Detroit,and cafe car from Windsor. Windsor head end crews until early 50's then London. Toronto tail end crews.


Number 14

International Limited Chicago-Montreal. Diesilized in mar of 1957. Dinning car London to Toronto. ( deadheaded on number 39 ) Three sleeping cars, Chicago-Toronto. Refridgerator cars of number 10 added at London ( seasonal ). Windsor-Hamilton express car off number 10 added at London ( until april 10/1956 ) Sarnia crews.


Number 15

International Limited Montreal-Chicago. Diesilized mar 5/ 1957.Three sleeping cars, Toronto-Chicago. sarnia crews.


Number 16

Windsor-Montreal Maple Leaf ,later Ontario Limited . Last steam was 6233,mar 22/1959 . Windsor-Toronto express car. Lifts fruit at Jeannette's Creek. Dinning car Windsor-Toronto ( off 117 ), comp. parlour car Detroit-Toronto,sleeper Detroit-Montreal. Toronto head end crews Toronto-London,London head end crews London-Sarnia, Toronto tail end crew.

Number 17

Inter-city LTD Montreal-Chicago. Last steam was 6204 apr 4/57. Parlour car Toronto-Detroit,cafe car Toronto-Pt Huron,buffet car Toronto-Chicago,sleeper Montreal-Detroit ,another sleeper Montreal-Chicago. Handles express reefers of fish from east,lifted at Hamilton. Normally six coaches out of Toronto.Train splits at London. Toronto head end crews Toronto-London, London head end crews London-Sarnia. Toronto tail end crews.


enjoy PT 2 later. Rob

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and fellow Ourplacians. Yea. I really do need a rail trip of some sort, and I'll get an 80 minute one tomorrow as I take the kiddies downtown for an overniter with other members of my family. I'll just have two light breakfasts this morning, as I have a Christmas dinner to attend tonight. Sure hope everyone enjoys the high quality coal I brought for their stockings! Here's some more Michigan quarters for "Pete" (the combination of of pig & feet). What do you think? Maybe not, because was already have a Pete. Howabout PJ (somewhat of an acronym from Pig and Jar)?

Great CNR post Mr. Rob. Looks like steam was really being phased out in 1957, the year after I was born, and it really bums me out. Never really got a chance to see regular steam operations. For those of you doing math, I'm still 25!

Here's Part IV in my India series. As many of you have pointed out, the Indians take overcrowding to a whole new level. They just have to have people getting hurt all the time, we just don't hear about it.

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Typical of depots in India is the busy Madras station.


Reservations on passenger trains should be made at least a week in advance if possible at tourist agencies or at station ticket offices as overcrowding is a major problem on the Indian Railway, although the addition of many new trains and longer consists have helped to ease the problem somewhat. Trains on main lines average 10 to 20 cars.

If one wishes to travel behind steam, it will usually be necessary to take the slower, medium distance trains, although there are still some steam powered expresses. Nearly all trains have both I and II class cars so one may travel in relative comfort. Plus, the bearer of a “Travel As You Like” pass will be given high priority treatment.

Engine crews are very friendly so a “footplate” or cab ride is entirely possible. The WPs have especially roomy interiors even with a three or four man crew. It is a good idea to take along some color railroad postcards to hand out liberally to the crew or better yet a Polaroid camera will provide “instant” crew approval.

If one is looking to experience a slice of Indian life, the station platform is the platter where a full portion may be served up. The visitor will observe the full spectrum of Indian culture, as just about everyone from the wealthy businessman to the beggar passes through the station concourse. Although the Indian airlines cater to some well-to-do Indians, and a few more affluent persons may be seen driving cars over the poor road system, the bulk of the population still makes use of the rail system.

While sitting in one’s compartment at a lengthy station stop, a constant parade of vendors stop and try to sell their wares to passengers. Each has his own distinctive sales pitch delivered in a sing-song native dialect. Knives, peanuts, fruits of all kinds, trinkets, beads, magazines, and newspapers all get passed through an open window in an effort to win a sale. One should not be misled by ragged, dirty children and persons with deformed limbs asking for hand-outs as most are professional beggars, but sometimes awarding a few coins will ease one’s conscience.

A smorgasbord of smells from roasted peanuts to not-so-pleasant, unhygienic odors waft by the passenger’s nose. Goats and dogs tend to be the sanitation engineers, quickly gobbling up bananas and orange peels as they drop.

Perhaps the most colorful sight on the platform is the Indian women wrapped in layers of flowing silk in bright prints, patterns, and solids.

Sometimes large families or whole villages may set up camp on the platform, complete with cooking facilities and their entire worldly possessions. During extremely dry periods, these groups move into the already overburdened larger cities looking for food and water. At night the station [platform turns into an open hotel and one sometimes has to step over sleeping bodies.

Once the traveler gets used to the spicy Indian vegetarian diet, the station restaurant can provide a tasty, nutritious meal for under a dollar. It normally consists of spinach or another vegetable, potatoes, rice and curry, and a large pancake along with plain yogurt to cool the fire afterwards. For the Western appetite, there is a limited menu of usually tea, toast, and omelets for about 56 cents.

Although the water is said to be safe to drink in the dining cars, stations, and refreshment stands, it is better not to risk an upset stomach (locally known as the Delhi belly), spoiling a holiday. Instead, it is better to opt for liquid refreshment through fruits and the tea vendor constantly shouting the native word for tea which sounds like “Chiee, chiee.” Also tea is incredibly cheap at t to 7 cents per cup. It is usually served in a disposable clay cup or a railway china cup. Coffee has a rich chocolate taste. Alcoholic beverages are not available on trains and generally only are obtainable in large cities.

Most stations have first class waiting rooms which may be used to escape the pressing crowds and also for overnight sleeping providing one has one’s own bedding. Retiring rooms may be utilized with bedding provided for overnight lodging for just pennies. Large depots have barbers and a wide range of shops to tantalize the excursionist’s taste for bargains.

After a few nights of somewhat Spartan sleeping accommodations on the trains, the trekker is in the mood for a non-bouncing bed and a hot shower. One is advised to stay at first class hotels in the larger cities to assure adequate lodging.

Now for some highlights of steam delights to tantalize the potential railfan visitor. Starting in the south in the steamy city of Madras on India’s east coast, one finds the beginning of a vast meter gauge network, where steam reigns king. One need not bring much more than short sleeve shirts, short pants and a hat to give shade from the sun as temperatures average 85 degrees during the optimum times to visit from December through February. (Plan on a wet suit if one decides to come during the monsoon season of October and the first part of November when rainfall averages 13 inches per month.) Although routes are electrified around the city there remains a lot of broad gauge steam activity. Basin Bridge Jct., a few miles west of Madras provides some excellent suburban steam workings behind WP and WG class engines. Departing south out of Madras on the electrified meter gauge, the train is then handed over to a YP class engine at Villaupuram where the juice ends. The Pacific has a relatively easy job of handling the 10 to 15 cars in this generally flat country dotted with palm trees, lush foliage and grass huts. A particularly steamy place too watch a constant parade of goods, through passenger, and local trains is Mayuram Jet. YL, WD, YP, YG and ST types may be observed in heavy action. One should come prepared with lots of bananas and oranges as it is easy to get dehydrated in this climate. (At 2 cents apiece for bananas, one cannot go wrong.) Traveling further south by train to Tiruchchirappalli Jct. one finds another very active broad and meter gauge center and is sell worth spending a day watching and photographing steam-hauled arrivals and departures.

Baldwin 2-8-0 finishes out its career as a yard shunter


[:I] Have a great day! [:I]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #32

ROGER WILLIAMS New York New Haven & Hartford inaugurated February 28, 1957 between Boston and New York round trip daily.

The New Haven received a six car train of special Budd RDC's to be operated as a train set. With only the two end units having diesel like control cabs, unlike conventional RDC's with a control; stand at each eand for bi-directional operation. The four intermediate RDC's were fitted with hostewlling controls only and the car ends resembled conventional Budd coaches. They all retained the conventional RDC hump in the roof for the fans and exhaust.

Seating in the ROGER WILLIAMS RDC's was was similar to rhgat found in airliners not the usuual flip over back seating found in most RDC's.
The two RDC's equipped with the diesel style control cabs 140 and 141 seated 20 in one compartment and 40 in the other compartment. The intermediate cars 160 - 163 seated 36 in one compartment and 40 in the other for a total of 76 per car compared to the 89 in a conventional %RDC-1.In January 1958 the 161 was fitted with a buffet and 40 seat dining area and retained 20 coach seats.

The trucks beneath the ROGER WILLIAMS RDC's were different then those found
under any other RDC. One axle of each truck was powered by the underfloor mounted diesls through an Allison Torque Converter. On conventional RDC's the other axle of each truck was simply an idler. On the ROGER WILLIAMS each of these axles was replaced with an axle having a traction motor that drew power from a third rail shoe. This permitted the ROGER WILLIAMS to operate into New Yorks Grand Central Station by shutting down the diesels and operating on the electric into and out of this terminal.

CONSIST
140 Cab RDC 20-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

160 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

161 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

162 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

163 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

141 Cab RDC 20-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

A “Wednesday way” to continue this countdown to Christmas is to spend a bit of time with us by ordering a <light> breakfast from the menu board – have a cup of freshly brewed coffee and try some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery! [tup]


Daily Wisdom:

There are two sides to any man’s argument. His and the wrong one.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST:
What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?] BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]
(in order of participation)
pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
ftwNSengineer P . . . . . . . Dec 23rd . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
jlampke John . . . . . . . . . Dec 24th (noon) . . . . . siberianmo Tom

CONTEST CLOSED!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 05:50:39 (197) Steam Delights of India, Part II, etc.

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 06:45:16 (197) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:52:03 (197) Streamliner #31 – The Royal Blue

(4) wanswheel Mike Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:56:51 (197) Inclusive Post, excellent “etc.”

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:13:20 (197) Inclusive Post, etc.

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 09:28:26 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(7) jdonald Don Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 13:52:25 (197) Diesel locos,etc.

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 14:20:33 (197) reply to jdonald

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 15:02:14 (197) NOSTALGIA #47 – Ad – NP, Yellowstone (1947)

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 16:34:25 (198) He’s baaaaaaack (again & again)!, Good reading!

(11) pwolfe Pete Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 17:59:21 (198) Inclusive Post, etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:06:00 (198) reply to: West Coast S

(13) barndad Doug Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:07:41 (198) Steam Delights of India, Part III & Inclusive Post, etc.

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 22:54:25 (198) Inclusive Post, etc.

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 23:51:08 (198) Classic CNR Steam #11

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



From siberianmo’s home: (click to enlarge)

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present. Coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Nice and cold here this a.m. (-2 degres) with heavy frost all over everyhting - the only blessing is that it is flat calm.

Tom: e-mail rec'd and thank you.

The Roger Williams. Always nice to have a train named for a family ancestor. This was the only train of the New Haven's ill-considered venture into experimental trains to survive. Somewhere in the archives for Our Place, I remember posting some information about this one. It is still with us (being restored). Anyway, it survived into Amtrak. I have photographs of it in New Haven, PC, and Amtrak livery. I managed to get a cab ride on it from Boston to New Haven one time (via the Inland Route).

In reply to an earlier question; Totes, piggybacks, TOFC, Jets, pigs are all nicknames for the same technology - trailer on flatcar. RoadRailers are different. The RoadRailer system is basically a highway trailer with a set of flanged wheels that swing into position when it is on rails and swing out of the way when it is on the highway. The RoadRailer (yes, it is a trade name) was developed by the C&O back in the 1950s for use on the Pere Marquette trains. I hope this helps sort things out.

In line with all the recent postings on things Canadian, the latest issue of Classic Trains has an excellent Jim Shaughnessy article on the "Bootlegger." Lovely pictures of CV and CN steam power in COOOOLD weather as well! It'll get you in the Christmas spirit. His comments on closed cabs and cold weather operations help to dispel the "romance" of steam.

The story about the elephant reminded me of a story about Wingate Cram, who years ago was president of the Bangor and Aroostook. Cram, in response to a complaint from a State of Maine game warden that BAR trains were running over moose, said in a letter,

"I have read with interest and no little pleasure your game warden's account of how our engineers have been stalking moose and leaping at them with their iron horses. But this report, I fear, smells of nature faking of the worst sort. Hitting a moose is too dangerous a sport for well-trained engineers, such as ours, who are a coservative lot and do not consider it fun to run into anything which may be on the rails. Of course, one of them may occasionally run a rabbit to earth or point a grouse with his 500 thousand pound monster, but they never use them for big game."

Speaking of spirits, let's try for January 6, 2006 for birthday bash (back off Boris, bashing comes later!)

BTW, we have excellent coal here for stockings. How many carloads do you want?

work safe

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom,one breakfast and as large a tankard of tea as you can find. Colder than a witches'patoot here today. (-10C) is to be the high.[:0][:(][xx(]

Nice little round the xmas tree train there. Does Juneau take rides on it ?[;)][:D]

Doug Another fine piece there this morning[tup] one can almost "taste" the sights and smells of that station in Madras.No coal for me though this year I've been a good boy[;)][:p]

The steam was gone from the main passemger trains by the end of 1957. Although many of the locals,mixed trains and branchlines continued with steam untill 1960-61,mostley due to the extreme light rail in some places. When CNR was formed in the 20's it inherited alot of scary under 75lbs rail from it's predessessors. According to my calculations you missed aged yourself a tad.[;)]I only came up with 20 [:D]

The extreme light rail is why both CN and to a lessor extent CPR had absolutly ancient moguls and 4-4-0's still operating in the late 50's. These were also the last lines to be diesilized as light weight diesels had not found their way into the picture until the late 50's early 60's. And even then alot of modifications were done to lighten them up even more. You also tended to see the old short 30-36' wodden passenger cars and baggage cars on these light rail districts, decades past their expiry dates from other railroads.


Al A fine fine,stramliner corner today. Third rail RDC's now there's something to get the boss's heart a thumping this early morning ( well late for him )[:D]


CM3 I see it's a bit chilly where you are as well,bit early for the Irish coffee yet though, soon though. [swg] I suppose that we can be thankfull that we are not walking into Manhatten today. No transit + cold weather + one of the busiest commuter systems= alot of teed of New Yorkers right before xmas.[:(!] I wouldn't wan tto be the Mayor there at the moment.[:0][B)]



Rob

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

Another good day here at ”Our” Place with much to read along with the ongoing banter at the bar! Thanx to all who keep this place movin’ forward. [tup][tu][tup] Good to see the return, albeit – temporary – return of West Coast S Dave! Now all we need to see is Trainnut484 Russell to make our gathering a bit more complete.

We spent a delightful evening at St. Louis’ Fox Theatre attending the Andy Williams Christmas Show. A special treat indeed and the packed house seemed to enjoy it as much as we. He’s a tad older, a bit frail in appearance, and perhaps cannot hit all of those notes any longer, but he’s an entertainer’s entertainer for sure. It was almost as if his old TV show had resurrected itself on the massive stage before us. Nice way to get into the mood and spirit of it all. [tup] Next up, The Trans Siberian Orchestra on Friday nite …….

I failed to make mention of a concert we attended Sunday evening at a Church we like to attend from time to time. They have a very accomplished Bell Choir who put on about a half hour pre-concert of Christmas music. The concert itself featured the music of John Rutter, a Londoner who is well known throughout the Christian world of music for his accomplishments. Accompanied by a Choir of approximately 160 voices, we were treated to an outstanding and warm entry to this wondrous week. [tup]

To repeat: As Christmas draws ever closer, I expect we’ll see fewer ‘n fewer Posts. The bar ‘n grill will remain open throughout this Christmas and holiday season, but take note of the following:

Christmas Eve – CLOSE at 6 PM (all time zones!)

Christmas Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – even the mail slots will be “blocked.”

New Year’s Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – mail slots “open,” but NO PIX!


To the acknowledgments:

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 17:59:21

Sorry I missed you last evening – snuck that one right in dintja [?] [swg]

I always enjoy your responses in that it shows that you digest what others have to say. Yours, Sir, is a fine example of what we should all strive to do when engaged in conversation at this bar – try a dash of “inclusiveness!” [tup]

We spent some time in KCity before, during and after the work done on Union Station. Back in the days when it was essentially “boarded up,” a couple of KCity police officer friends of mine took me inside for a ‘tour’ perhaps not experienced by very many. To recall those ghostly concourses, et al, brings back some other thoughts as well. Back to my one and only arrival at the station in 1953, en route California from NYC. Spent a good portion of the day in KCity, before heading back to the station for the resumption of the journey. Quite the station at yet another railroad cross roads.

It was a long negotiation getting Amtrak back into the station and when they finally agreed to all of the terms – not to mention government demands for this ‘n that – the station somehow regained just a bit of the luster it once had insofar as being a “real” train station is concerned.

The layouts are not permanent – they move ‘em in and out – some I understand are stored within the bowels of the station, others move on to different locations. But, I’ve been there many times when the main hall was simply – well, the main hall. Nonetheless, it is a marvelous edifice and one that those who appreciate the glory days of passenger railroading surely should see.

barndad Doug
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:07:41 and 21 Dec 2005 05:23:58

Good for you! Glad to hear that a trainride has been incorporated into your family Christmas fun-things-to-do plans! [tup] Great memory makers for your children too! [swg]

Seems you’ve flicked a switch with Pete and your series on those steam trains of India. My guess is that BudKarr BK might also appreciate this series, as he seems to be an international kinda traveler.

You’re doing your level best to win that prize, eh [?] Looks like we’re going down to the wire – which really was what I had hoped for. Amazing how close many were and are …. [tup]

Only 25 you say [?] So, how come you haven’t signed on to the Birthday Watch List! [?] It’s only been posted fourteen zillion times since you’ve been with us! [swg] All that’s needed is the birth date and age you will be (which we now know!).

trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 22:54:25 and 23:51:08 and 21 Dec 2005, 09:13:39


Another fine set of examples of what the idea of “inclusiveness” is all about. Not only answering and acknowledging, but providing some interesting “stuff” along the way. Thanx! Good seein’ ya again. Tough times for you retailers, eh [?] Sorry, Mate – but you can have every bit of the commercialism that somehow has overtaken the Christmas season. Been that way for as long as I can recall, unfortunately. So, I am in no position to say differently, but I really don’t care for the pu***o purchase. Bothers me. Glad you have a 3-day respite from it all! [tup][tup]

Really enjoyed that CNR Steam Passenger Train Profiles – well done! [tup][tup] Like that kinda stuff fer sure, fer sure. [swg] Just the thought of traveling in a parlour car ….. ahhhhhhh. [tup]

passengerfan Al
Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 07:28:05

Well, you flicked my switch with that last Streamliner – Roger Williams (RDCs)! [tup][tup] I could add pages to what you had to say, but won’t. Your efforts stand on their own and perhaps some other time I’ll chime in.

You really are short changing yourself without some URLs to accompany these pieces. Too bad. Last time I’ll mention it …… surely your choice.

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 08:22:59

Okay – looks like we’ve got a Birthday Bash on the schedule – January 6th (Friday)! Any specific timeframe (morning – afternoon, etc.) [?]

Got a kick out of that quote – but how does one “stalk” anything with a locomotive on a track [?] [swg] Seems the limitations would definitely favor the animal from harm. Sure, not taking any measures to slow down, is about all the engineer could do – but “stalking,” hmmmmmmm.

Tell ya what, deliver a couple of carloads of that coal to our siding and we’ll find use for it. Those stockings hung by our chimney with care are from the staff – and we all know how “good” they’ve been! [swg]


Thanx to one and all for the rounds and quarters for the Juke – Herr Wurlitzer! By the by, Doug yours are the ONLY suggestions for a name to be applied to the Pickled Pigs Feet Jar holding the quarters (what’s with the Michigan quarters [?]). Again, we’re looking for something appropriate that links the prime donor of quarters – CM3 – to the name I’ll have affixed to the jar.


Later, Gents!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ......

2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. Dec 21st):

February 2nd (Kevin – 49)
March 5th (Nick – 45)
April 18 (Al - 63)
May 18th (Tom - 67)
May 27th (Dave - 46)
June 24th (Dan - 43)
July 15th (*** – 65)
July 25th (Chris - 51)
July 30th (Russell – 34)
August 16th (Ted - 67)
September 8th (Rob - 34)
December 29th (CM3) – 59 Next up! Friday, January 6th!!

Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year).
Corrections too!

Names of those in The Legion of the Lost will be dropped in 2006.

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES

[trolleyboy]

Hello again Tom another top up of the tea,grab yourself one as well since we have the joint to ourselves at the moment.I figured that I would take Ted's early slot today in his absence,besides I get more danishes this way. [:D]

So the continuation of yesterday's CNR steam info.


CNR Classic Steam # 12 Train Profiles in SW Ontario Pt 2

Number 18/118

Windsor-Toronto. last regular steam was 6234 apr 1957, but steam was substituted several times after on 9 & 18. Last steam was 6239 feb 17/1959. Buffet parlour car Detroit-Toronto. Another buffet car London-Toronto ( Fri's ). sets off empty express cars at Brantford & Hamilton for number 9. Lifts loaded express car at Brantford. Carries London-Montreal express car. Windsor head end crews London-Windsor,London head end crew London-Toronto,Windsor tail end crews.


Number 20

Maple Leaf Chicago-Montreal. Last steam was 6226 mar 3/1957. Cafe-parlour car Pt Huron-Toronto, buffet-parlour car Chicago-Toronto,compartment parlour car Pt Huron-Toronto,sleeping car Chicago-Montreal,transfered to number 16 at Toronto. Toronto head end crews Toronto-London, London head end crews London-Sarnia.


Number 29

Originates in Owen Sound as number 172,becomes 169 at Palmerston,then number 29 at Stratford.Last steam was 5548 on apr 29/1959. Normally a baggage car,RPO,one or two coaches, and sleeper ( Montreal-London,off no 17 at Toronto ex sat ) out of Stratford. Stratford & London head end crews, Palmerston tail end crews.


Number 39

Toronto-London express train via Stratford. Steam used regulary until mar 31/1959.Hudson 5703 substituted for diesels on apr 12th, and Northern 6214 on apr 20th.Normally one coach out of Toronto.Diner deadheaded to London,returning on no 14. Baggage car mail service until RPO initiated in sept/1956. Toronto and London head end crews Toronto tail end crews.

Number 40

London-Toronto via Stratford. Last steam was 6233 on mar 26/59.Carries mail storage car London to Toronto. Baggage car mail service until RPO initiated sept 30/1956.Sleeping car London-Montreal (ex sat) , transfered to number 16 at Toronto.Toronto and London head end crews,Toronto tail end crews.


Number 75

Forest City Toronto-London. Fast train,steam used steadily until 6230 on mar 26/1959. At London engine and mail car off 83 are coupled to consist of 75,and this train carries on to Windsor as no 83. Cafe-parlour cars Toronto-Windsor,compartment parlour car Toronto-Detroit. London crews.

Number 77

Toronto-London. Steam used steadily until 5700 on mar 20 /1959. Steam was normmal power until april 18th. Carries mail storage car ( baggage ) off number 19 at Toronto. Normally one coach out of Toronto, in addition to express cars. Toronto& London head end crews.


Number 80

London-Toronto. Diesels appear occationally beginning mar 20 / 1959. Steam normal power until april 18th. Diesel used on apr 20 steam again (6214 ) for the last time on the 21st. Lots of head end traffic, Windsor-Hamilton express car added at london. Toronto and London head end crews,Toronto tailend crews.

Number 82

Businessman's Speacial London-Toronto. Diesels first appeared on mar 28/1959. Steam ( 5701 ) used on mar 3st and apr 1st, then train was diesilized for good.Baggage car and coaches London-Toronto. London crews.

Number 83/183

Toronto-Windsor. Steam used regularly until 6230, mar 20/1959. Lots of head end traffic. Normally two London coaches & one Niagara Falls coach out of Toronto. Train is split at Hamilton, with a number of cars forming the consist of of train 86/186 for Niagara Falls ( including an RPO ). Often lifts express car and reefer loads at Hamilton,set off at London for number 5. Train dies at london,engine and RPO are coupled onto coach(es) and two parlour cars from number 75 for continuation to Windsor as 83. London head end crews.


Number 105

Detroit section of LaSalle , London-Windsor. Diesel;s appeared apr 4/1959, steam otherwise used until 5700 on apr 13/1959. Train 5 is split at London with,number 5 going through to Pt Huron and number 105 oroginating as Windsor section. Coach and compartment parlour car Toronto-Detroit. London head end crews Windsor tail end crews.

Enjoy Rob

[trolleyboy]

Hey Tom, thought that I would have caught you before you headed back out but just missed yah. BTW I did put forward a name for the jar guess you missed it.[sigh] Just for that I added a couple loonies to the mix.[swg] I to detest the commersilization but ubfortunatly that's where my bread is buttered,could be worse I suppose. Sounds like a fine set of conserts, nice to see you expanding your horizons [:^]

Glad that you liked the CNR bit, Pt two awaits [;-)]. speacial note of thanks to Ian wilson from whom the info was gleened.

Doug forgot to mention earlier but have a blas t on your pre Christmas train trip,very nice to get home for the holiday's that way fer sure [tup]

Also for all we classic steam nuts here. No Boris [alien] He just used the new starbucks coffee steamer to warm up the bar nuts. Any way if you pop over to my museum thread you will see some info on the BC boys that are restoring CPR Royal Hudson 2860,they are planning on having her up and running in 2006,winderfull news to be sure.

Have a good afternoon everyone.

Rob

[jdonald]

Mornin Tom & all present; Just a very light breakfast-have a Christmas dinner this aft and am already fighting the Yule Battle of the Waistling(waste-line).Glad to hear the Andy Williams show was up to expectations. Caught a little of his Christmas Special TV show but that was the Andy of the 70's & 80's. Good thing we haven't aged like that[:D]
Its getting harder to acknowledge all the excellent posts of late. By the time I finish looking at them, have forgotten half of what I wanted to acknowledge. I do read all the posts though and learn from them all[tup]even if don't acknowledge them all.

AlWho woulda thunk a 6 car RDC set up like that and with 3rd rail capabilities as well. We surely do learn something new everyday and hope it continues.

Doug Your piece on Indian Steam and Indian Railways in general surely is an eye opener for this Wester Hemisphere dweller. The sights, sounds and smells[:0]must be overwhelming. A very informative article.

Rob If you need some help spending that next paycheque with all the O/T let me know!! Like to hear more about the Donald Lewis Rail Canada book(s). Enjoyed CNR Steam #11. Lots of familiar train names & operations there.

West Coast Dave Thanks for the excellent info on the F units and response to the question of 1cab versus 2(maybe a little more on that later)

At the risk of overloading the thread with more F-unit info here is a 2 or 3 part series taken from "Diesels Locomotives: The First 50 Years" by Louis A. Marre and published by Kalmbach Books

EMD CABS AND BOOSTERS: 1350 HP, B-B (FT's)

Model FTA 1350 HP produced 11/39-11/45 U.S. 555 Canada 0 Mexico 0
Model FTB 1350 HP produced 11/39-11/45 U.S. 541 Canada 0 Mexico 0

Features: Bulldog nose and cab body, with a noticeable overhang beyond the rear truck on B Units. As built A units have side panels with four closely spaced portholes; B units have the same. A fifth porthole on the right side forward of the group of bour indicates hostler control, applied only to B units delivered with couplers at each end instead of drawbar connections to an A unit. Units with dynamic brakes have a large square structure flanking the stacks to house the resistors. Units without dynamic brakes lack that structure, exposing the four in-line exhaust stacks to view.
Varations: Most units were delivered as A-B sets connected by drawbars; a few were delivered as A-B-A sets with short booster units lacking the long overhang at the rear.Some units were built with couplers, and others were later fitted withthem, so in later years single FT units could be seen mixed with other diesels. Trips through the shops for repairs sometimes resulted in side panels without portholes,different number boards and classification lights, and sometimes even F7-style stainless-steel grilles over the vents.
Nomenclature: The short booster unit used in three-unit A-B-A sets was sometimes referred to as FTSB. Electromotive initially referred to FT units, both A and B, that were built with couplers and draft gears at both ends as model FS (S perhaps for separable). In addition to the couplers there was a difference in the underframes. A 1947 EMD publication noted that Santa Fe, Rio Grande, Missouri Pacific and Southern were the only roads with FS type locomotives. The presence of a pair of vertical grab irons and step was sure indication the units were connected by drawbars--they couldn't be separated with recourse to major tools. The FS designation was soon either dropped or forgotten.

End part 1 [zzz]

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[red p]

hi Tom,
How about a beer,this is the first break Ive had all week. Had some broken rail out there last night, that slowed things down pretty good for a while.

west coast
I enjoyed your piece about the F-units. They have always been my favorite along with E-units

Nick
a while back ago you made a comment about consecutive engine numbers. Well the other day I had 7001,7005,and 7010. How about that.

Hey this glass has a hole in it
Tom
another beer over here.
P

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Some mid to late morning activity! Nice to have some company. [swg]

Hey Rob Profound apologies, Sir! I totally disregarded your suggestion for the name of the Pickled Pigs Feet Jar holding the quarters for Herrr Wurltizer! Great suggestion - Coal Scuttle - like that alot. [tup]

So here's what we have thus far:

Rob - Coal Scuttle
Doug - Pete or PJ

C'mon guys, this isn't that difficult ... [swg]

Rob Nice Part II for your CNR Steam Passenger trains of SW Ontario series! [tup][tup] And no, Juneau would hardly fit into or onto that LGB train! [swg] He's pretty good just watching it - only 2nd Christmas we've had with him and he's an agressive dog - but moreso in play with us as opposed to "things" in the house. [yeah] The train is nice to watch 'round the tree. Isn't that what one should have at this time of year [?] I think so! [tup]

Also, Sir Rob please don't take offense at my comments - as you know - if I'm thinking it, I'll say it! <grin> We all have to make a living and I don't knock what you do so much as what those who own the retail stores do to the season! There IS a difference. But then again, as with my efforts in law enforcement - it's all a matter of DEMAND. We could curtail the illicit drug trade simply by knocking off the DEMAND. Same for Christmas frenzied shopping. The stores are only providing what we the consumers apparently DEMAND. And the beat goes on .... [tdn]

Don [yeah] Andy is only 10 1/2 years older than I - he turned 78 on Dec 3rd. I had second thoughts about getting the tix because I really hate to haved my "images" destroyed, if you follow my thoughts. Saw him in the same theatre about 25 years ago and he was still at the top of his game. Not that last night's performance was less than wonderful, just definite signs of that thing called - CHANGE. It was a grand time for the 4,500 packed into the theatre.

Enjoyed your Part I on those EMDs! Good job - now let's get some URLs put together to compliment your work. [tup][tup]

Ahhhh, the return of P - no doubt "lurking" to pick up the winner's prize for our Contest! You're right in there - we'll see. [swg]

Our glasses have holes in them only at the top - I'd say you've developed that mid-week thirst brought about by a thing called WORK. [swg]

Don't know how many pages you've browsed through since your return - but you'll find that a few of our guys are gone for the rest of the week and into the next, Nick is one of 'em.

Here's your brew ... Enjoy!


Isn't it past due time to be hearing from a couple of other guys [?] C'mon earlydiesels Dan -and- jlampke John can't be a regular 'round here without entering the joint! [swg]


Later guys.....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #48

For your BRITISH ISLES Holiday

USE THE COMPLETE SERVICES OF BRITISH RAILWAYS

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the British Railways from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . Our trains mean pleasant, easy day or night service to every corner of Britain.

Railway-operated channel steamer services to Ireland and the Continent assure you
comfortable accommodations and convenient connections.

. . . . . 45 hotels throughout Britain associated with British Railways invite you to pause
. . . . . on your tour or business trip, for relaxation, sports and enjoyment of their
. . . . . traditional hospitality.

STAY LONGER * SEE MORE! 25% REDUCTION IN TOUR FARES

By planning ahead the many places throughout Britain you wi***o visit, you can effect a considerable saving by the individual tour fares granted by British Railways to visitors from overseas.

. . . . . Write for YOUR free copies . . . . .

”WHAT, NO ICE?” – written especially for Americans planning to visit us; as well as the full-color map folder, ”THE BRITISH ISLES” both free upon request to Dept. 25 at any of the offices shown below.

For tickets, reservations and authoritative travel information on the British Isles

CONSULT YOUR LOCAL TRAVEL AGENT or any British Railways office:

. . . . . NEW YORK 20, N. Y., 9 ROCKEFELLER Pl.
. . . . . CHICAGO 3, ILL, 39 So. Lasalle St.
. . . . . LOS ANGELES 14, CAL., 510 W. 6th St.
. . . . . TORONTO, ONT., 69 Yonge Street

. . . . . . . . . . BRITISH RAILWAYS . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!