Streamlined
Served the people for a long period of time
Always looks CLEAN and neat
Simple but classy
Capable to reach higher speed
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Jones1945 Streamlined Served the people for a long period of time Always looks CLEAN and neat Simple but classy Capable to reach higher speed
Sounds like the Pioneer Zephyr to me.
I always liked the looks of those Royal Hudsons, a nice blend of the British and American esthetic.
I'm surprised the crown is missing from the skirtings on those locomotives pictured, maybe they lost them after a while, or never had them to begin with?
Anyway, a Mike's Train House O gauge catalog described the honorific "Royal Hudson" better than anyone else...
"If any locomotive was ever granted a knighthood, this was it!"
Flintlock76"If any locomotive was ever granted a knighthood, this was it!"
Sounds like the sort of thing to expect from the folks that sold us Proto-Sound 1.
Conveniently ignoring Blighty where they had a whole class of locomotives actually bearing knighthoods... and deserving them.
Overmod Flintlock76 "If any locomotive was ever granted a knighthood, this was it!" Sounds like the sort of thing to expect from the folks that sold us Proto-Sound 1. Conveniently ignoring Blighty where they had a whole class of locomotives actually bearing knighthoods... and deserving them.
Flintlock76 "If any locomotive was ever granted a knighthood, this was it!"
Nuthin' wrong with Proto-Sound 2 or 3, I'm a happy customer with those two.
Never had an MTH engine with Proto 1, so I can't comment on those.
Anyway, I like Mikes catalogs, very colorful and much better than Lionels.
Urgent hot message to Overmod from Montreal
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0wvGiAH9g
Fetchez la vache!
Honi soit la vache qui rit,
Honi soit la vache qui rit... you showed what to my aunt?
But I think the Quebecois prefer sheep to cows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jC7NKkjCe0
OvermodHoni soit la vache qui rit
Sounds like my family motto: Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Ah, that's right Becky, you're a Plantagenet!
No wonder you're the "Queen of O Gauge" for the rest of us "Classic Toy Trains" folks!
I'm just a humble knight of the order "Semper Fidelis," but my sword is yours!
Wayne
Pourquoi rit la vache?
Johnny
That is the question! Why is the cow laughing ? Probably the nice red earrings and she's happy.
Penny Trains Overmod Honi soit la vache qui rit
Overmod Honi soit la vache qui rit
With the greatest of respect to Overmod's admiration of British steam locomotives, and don't we all admire those gorgeous machines?
The Brits did build perfect locomotives, but the problem with a perfect locomotive is it needs a perfect roadbed to run on, which is the reason they never caught on here in the New World, in the US and Canada.
In Britain, with railroad builders rollin' in money, cheap labor, and shorter distances to travel building a perfect roadbed wasn't an issue. Not so here.
It also meant that there was a great marketing opportunity around the turn of the 20th Century for American builders like Baldwin, ALCO, Porter, and others when developing nations started building railroads of their own with less than perfect roadbeds, hence the reason there's American steam locomotives found all over the world.
The Canadians came up with their own masterpieces that worked well for them, that Royal Hudson being a prime example.
Hey, it's all good, as long as it's steam.
Speaking of "Lord Of The Rings" spoofs, this is the best one I've seen, but you'd better stand by, it's a little rough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8jW19Ibjyo
Miningman That is the question! Why is the cow laughing ? Probably the nice red earrings and she's happy.
That's deep!
A bottle of wine and some Laughing Cow Cheese is always a winner on the second date. I know that there are fine cheeses to go along with wine but the Laughing Cow on a first romantic interlude melts the ladies.
The cow is Laughing along with us. Job well done. Those French eh!
English Hol jatlh nuqneH! pagh tlhIngan mughmeH ghun lo' jItlhIjchoHtaH! Qapla'!
Lady Firestorm asked me to spring this on everyone, just to keep things bovine.
And she must be obeyed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZJZfdtcKBA
Uh, my Klingonese is a bit rusty. OK, it's non-existant.
And I only know enough German to get myself in deep trouble.
This is the greatest Forum in all of history!
Chapeau to Lady Firestorm.
CSSHEGEWISCH Sounds like the Pioneer Zephyr to me.
I never underestimate or look down streamliners like Pioneer Zephyr and all Zephyr of CB&Q, they were, according to the historical trend and what really happened in the RR history of America, The Zephyr together with UP's early diesel streamliner were the real "Train of the Tomorrow" a.k.a Diesel powered streamliner. : )
Hey! Get your stinkin Diesels off the Royal Hudson thread... geez you've already got at least 3 threads on streamliners where this belongs. No respect!
Launch the cows!
While we are on the subject of Klingon and streamlining:
'IwlIj jachjaj!
reH taHjaj!
See.. best Forum in the history of the world.
My Klingon a bit weak.. something about ' scream' or maybe just scream.
Miningman Hey! Get your stinkin Diesels off the Royal Hudson thread... geez you've already got at least 3 threads on streamliners where this belongs. No respect! Launch the cows!
Jamais!! Streamlined steam locomotives are teakettles trying to look like the diesels that inspired the attempt.
MiningmanMy Klingon a bit weak.. something about ' scream' or maybe just scream.
Beware the literal translation -- here as in so many other contexts.
Here is a useful tutorial.
Overmod While we are on the subject of Klingon and streamlining: 'IwlIj jachjaj! reH taHjaj!
You know, that does kinda-sorta remind one of a Klingon battlecruiser!
Maybe we should head "across the pond" for a look at what good 'ol Scotty might have sicced on 'em...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDQAsXS1iU
Was Scotty a Jacobite? I don't know, he never said.
Anyway, we DO know Scotty didn't take any crap off anyone, especially Klingons!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsO-7ENKGP4
"Will ye no come back again, will ye no come back again?
Better loved ye canna be, will ye no come back again?"
I'M a Jacobite, although my mother's Scottish ancestors were allegedly from the hated Clan Campbell. Then on my dad's side, his Ukrainian mother was supposed to have been descended from Scots who fled to Poland. Bonnie Prince Charlie was half Polish and many Scots did find refuge there. When Poland was partitioned between Austria, Prussia, and Russia, the region of Ukraine where my grandmother hailed from became Russia. So Dad's story is entirely plausible.
I'm not sure I'd want the DNA test. I might find out the Harrises were Welsh, not Scottish.Can t track down my mother's relatives as she was an only child. Her parents died long ago,and her paternal uncle had two daughters. Any male Harrises who could be family would have to be descended from her grandfather's younger brothers.
Not to worry Father. As the Scots say, if the sound of bagpipes send a shiver down your spine, makes the hair on the back of your neck rise, and makes your blood run quicker, you're one of them!
Certainly applies to me, my mother's family (on her mother's side) were from Scotland, although of Irish ancestry, but they considered themselves Scottish. I grew up surrounded by Scottish accents, and I love the pipes!
They were Jacobites too. They were Catholic, Bonnie Prince Charlie was Catholic, so need I say more?
I don't want the DNA test either, I know all I need to.
Overmod Miningman My Klingon a bit weak.. something about ' scream' or maybe just scream. Beware the literal translation -- here as in so many other contexts. Here is a useful tutorial.
Miningman My Klingon a bit weak.. something about ' scream' or maybe just scream.
My app said: May your blood scream!you always!
Note: 2459, 2811, 2816, 2820 and 2822 were still in commuter service in May of 1960. Last steam likely was 2820 with a Montreal bound freight train (transfer?) sighted on June 29th.1960.
That's close to your last sighting on June 24, 1960.
So the last dispatched regular service was the very first Royal Hudson built #2820.
Ditto the rest of your comments but in Burlington. Waited for one more but it never came, never happened. Nighttime was busy with steam whistles and the sounds and then it stopped and never came back. Nothing was the same after that.
Joni Mitchell said it best...
"Don't it always seem to go, and you don't what you've got 'till it's gone..."
Of course, it's even worse when you DO know what you've got, and it goes anyway.
"Progress may be change, but change ain't always progress!"
But on a lighter note...
"May your blood scream!" is a Klingon toast?
OK, now just WHO'S been selling those boys "Jersey Lightning?"
What, you think Southerners have a monopoly on moonshine? We know a bit about it up North too, 'ya know!
Keeping the Canadian content here, I understand they know a bit about 'shine up there as well!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEe4LS1_gTg
Dick Nolan sounds like Johnny Cash.
I imagine there was some Newfie Screetch shine .
says Firelock, err Flintlock .." Of course, it's even worse when you DO know what you've got, and it goes anyway. "
That is for certain! As a youngster I knew this was all just too good to be true and that it would end. Funny how you sense that even at an early age.
We are the Future,
Drop your fires and drain out your boilers.
We will eliminate your individual mechanical distinctiveness.
Your shops will adapt to service US.
Resistance is futile.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Excellent post! A Classic on Classic. Thank you Dude! The Dude abides!
So CSSHEGEWISCH is Borg.., I suspect others.
It figures the Borg would have been behind dieselization! Soulless, mindless, loveless, no warmth, no pity...
Somebody get on the horn to Jean-Luc Picard, HE'LL know what to do!
Miningman's right, this is the best thread EVER!
Miningman Excellent post! A Classic on Classic. Thank you Dude! The Dude abides! So CSSHEGEWISCH is Borg.., I suspect others.
Hmmm.. being a fellow Blackhawk fan I will take you at your word and offer respect. Perhaps we can agree to disagree as they say.
Besides you reside in the Chicago area which is the undisputed crown jewel of Railroading and you must have seen a lot, a whole lot of history.
We interrupt this thread to bring you Stan Lee's cameo in the newly released Captain Marvel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtAEfujX1qg
Flintlock76It figures the Borg would have been behind dieselization! Soulless, mindless, loveless, no warmth, no pity...
Goes back further....
Oh jeez, I forgot about those pesky Daleks...
"We are not de-feeeted, the Daleks are never de-feeeted!"
OK, in addition to getting on the horn to Captain Picard someone better call the Doctor as well.
Flintlock76Oh jeez, I forgot about those pesky Daleks... "We are not de-feeeted, the Daleks are never de-feeeted!"
Disney may have Scrooged out Stan's cameo ... but no one can cancel out how we get those pesky Daleks...
Great video Mod-Man, I love the music too!
"I love the smell of burning Daleks in the morning, it smells like VICTORY!"
The trouble is, those pickle-skinned self-propelled garbage cans just keep coming...
Flintlock76The trouble is, those pickle-skinned self-propelled garbage cans just keep coming...
They will as long as I'm around!
Great idea Becky! Sic a Dreyfuss Hudson, a Class J, an American Flyer, a Warbonnet, and a Lionel 2035 "Blockbuster" on 'em! That'll learn 'em!
Nothin' the "A" team from Schenectady, Roanoke, New Haven, and Hillside can't handle!
Now have that Ohio regiment of Civil War troops I know you've got on the layout give 'em the bayonet! Or a can opener!
My local supermarket!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r-_HPDqB2Q
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Interesting! I like the eyes they put on it to make it less, well, is ominous the right term to use?
Lady Firestorm asked me to start an informal poll:
In a fight between the Borg and the Daleks, who'd win? All opinions are welcome!
Flintlock76 Lady Firestorm asked me to start an informal poll: In a fight between the Borg and the Daleks, who'd win? All opinions are welcome!
Borg. No question about it.
The same question came up on here a couple years ago. I stand by my tactical opinion:
http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/p/263868/2977847.aspx?page=3
SD70Dude In a fight between the Borg and the Daleks, who'd win? All opinions are welcome! Borg. No question about it.
Seconded.
Nerd canon invocation: Daleks don't have triaxilation and would get one shot before Borg targets adapted. I personally have some question whether the Borg would find them technologically advanced enough to bother with as a "race" after that. Judging by how easy it is for humans, even unarmed ones, to do Daleks in, I'm not thinking the ex-ter-mi-na-tion will go very far before it is ASS-sim-il-a-ted.
On the other hand, I'd be more concerned with the Black Hats in Heinlein's Number of the Beast, or on the gripping hand, far more concerned with Moties. (Berserkers don't count, as they always lose in the end...)
Tactical stalemate. See Dalek-Movellan war:
Great tans! Have they been to Florida for spring break?
Well there goes my Royal Hudson thread.
Miningman Well there goes my Royal Hudson thread.
Had to happen, as soon as you brought up the Borg!
No problem, I can fix that! Here's Royal Hudson 2860 co-starring with "Bullet Nose Betty."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba4E_rzBUgE
Hey, I just got this from Mike! Want to see a Royal Hudson acquiring it's title?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfh6SYHBCuI&t=52m23s
It also features King George VI and Queen Elizabeth, the couple Lady Firestorm's mom was proud to call her sovereigns.
You know, I've heard both BETTY and BETSY over the years. So which is correct?
Bettie
Flintlock-- That doubleheader --Best video I've seen in a while! You are completely absolved and have restored the thread.
Flintlock76 Miningman Well there goes my Royal Hudson thread. Had to happen, as soon as you brought up the Borg! No problem, I can fix that! Here's Royal Hudson 2860 co-starring with "Bullet Nose Betty." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba4E_rzBUgE
That's a very good choice of a youtube video of the 1939 Royal Tour, thank you for posting it, Wayne. I think this scene is very beautiful:
Source: Rapido
By the way, the "Bullet Nose Betty" was probably one of the most economical ways to streamlining a steam engine, I think it looks good enough.
You're welcome all, although Mike the Wanswheel deserves the credit for finding the royal tour footage, I was just the instrument for passing it along.
Anyone know what's going on with that BC Royal Hudson now? Any plans to run it again? And how about "Bullet-Nose Bettie?"
Seeing all the traffic in the double-head video reminded me of something Andy Muller of the Reading & Northern said back in the 90's...
"When I run an excursion behind a diesel, even a vintage diesel, nobody notices. But when I run a steam excursion I stop traffic for miles around!"
On 28 September 2006, the Royal Hudson steamed into the WCRA Squamish station under her own power for the first time since October 1999. The restoration took just over one year with a cost of over $250,000. Money for the restoration was provided wholly by donations. The WCRA also had difficulty locating missing parts. Some of the major components, such as the trailing truck, were borrowed from sister engine 2850. The borrowed parts had to be returned when 2850 was put on public display. WCRA replaced the borrowed tailing truck with one that was being used at a mine, which had salvaged the truck from a Royal Hudson due for scrap. The truck turned out to have been taken off of 2860 when she was sitting on the scrap line in the 1960s. The association plans to operate 2860 on excursion runs and at special events. Due to the strict "no steam" policy that CP and CN have, the excursions are restricted to special occasions only. 2860 is steamed up regularly for publicity and to salute passing passenger trains.
On 9 December 2010, the ex-CP 2860 and the Royal Hudson trainset were scheduled to depart North Vancouver for Squamish at 12:30 pm on the last of its scheduled excursion trips in 2010. The ex-CP 2860's certification expired in January 2011 and the cost of the necessary work is estimated at over $1 million CAD. The December 9 trip is likely to be her last for a long time.
As for 6060:
https://www.absteamtrain.com/sch6060.html
Oh well, at least they're still around. "Where there's life, there's hope."
The CN/CP "no steam" policy could always change as well, usually takes a mangement flip and for a closet railfan to end up in the CEO's chair.
FWIW.
Thank You.
Thanks for 'Mines in the Windermere Valley' .. terrific addon to my Milling course and Mining history.. Lots of different commodities too. The Cordellira has a complex and fascinating geological evolution and setting.
How's about some more super-cool CPR Hudson action?
Check this out, starring 2860 AND 2816!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLjZEZQklkY
Thanks Firelock.. beautiful.
Royal Hudsons came through my hometown of Burlington regularly and that whistle on 2816 is exactly the sound I would fall asleep to for years. That sound has never been forgotten.
I can understand Vince, during the summers when the windows were open I would fall asleep to the Erie's diesel horns blowing for the crossings one town away.
Not the same as a steam whistle though. I would have loved that!
Yeah that's it alright. I recall one night in particular. Must of been '58 or '59, with a flurry of whistles non stop and steam exhaust with both high speed not stopping at the station and low speed, stopping at the station sounds. It went on and on for hours.
There were 2 subdivisions that ended at the station and the 3 track mainline was both CNR and CPR. There were many passenger trains still coming and going to Niagara Falls, Windsor, Sarnia, London, Toronto, Chicago, New York, Fort Erie and Buffalo plus locals to Hamilton, Guelph and points North up to Lake Huron steamships.
There were 2 water towers and a coaling tower, icing sheds, tracks everywhere. Heck of a place.
Something must have caused backups up and down the line that night and then everything started moving again with quite the extended sound show.
Today one subdivision is gone, the station is gone, nothing stops, all the infrastructure is gone, there are no grade crossings at all as everything is overpass or underpass and it's a pretty strict quiet zone, no horns.
Commuter and Via are a mile away in a bus shelter thingie with a massive parking lot. Sterile, secular, about as exciting as suet pudding.
With all due respects, CPR 2816 is NOT a Royal Hudson, that title is reserved for CPR 2820-2865.
Well of course we know that. Only the streamlined versions got the crown. Do we really have to qualify every statement and delve into minutia about things that are obvious. The Classic Forum is a bit different and has a more mature, seasoned and knowledgable bunch of boneheads!
Here is a one-of only... A Jubilee in the freight paint scheme of all black.
The logic of a high speed passenger locomotive used in freight haulage escapes me. The second batch built were not the 'real ones' as designed. They were hand fired to boot which must have been quite the workout. I have posted a pic a while ago of a Jubilee pulling 60 cars on the Smith Falls division. Must have been an ordeal getting underway.
So if the CPR could do this with their Jubilees then the Pennsy could have hauled manifests with their T1's perhaps on some obscure secondary in a far flung corner of the empire, even after Diesels took over the mail and express trains.
2911 the only known Jubilee painted in freight colours. c.1957 Bruce Chapman Collection
MiningmanHere is a one-of only... A Jubilee in the freight paint scheme of all black. The logic of a high speed passenger locomotive used in freight haulage escapes me. The second batch built were not the 'real ones' as designed. They were hand fired to boot which must have been quite the workout. I have posted a pic a while ago of a Jubilee pulling 60 cars on the Smith Falls division. Must have been an ordeal getting underway.
The thing to remember here is that the 'small' Jubilees were not intended as high-speed anything; they were smaller and more economical power with the same sort of 'overkill' in firebox capacity as the Lima 4-8-6 style designs were at larger scale.
Illinois Central had quite a history of designing and modifying locomotives for freight service, some of which I believe we were discussing a few days ago: converting high-drivered Atlantics and Pacifics with ridiculous-seeming lower drivers (with no reduction of nominal cylinder dimensions!) as well as constructing a freight-only 4-6-4 (for fast limited-length manifest service, something that merits its own discussion). These were not particularly intended as 'dual-service' and I suspect it was understood that engineers would use care in starting.
SP had some interesting elderly Atlantics equipped with boosters (I believe they were 81"-drivered to boot!) that were observed running trains that seem in the realm of fiction -- is not one of these described in that trains-of-the-1940s book we discussed a while ago?
In Britain it was well-recognized that a good 4-6-0 could cover any service assigned to a nominally-larger Pacific -- the difference being in things 'other than performance'. It does not surprise me that a good 4-4-4 could start a train of 60 loads, and of course that it could "pull any train it could start". Of course that presumes knowledgeable and professional enginemen, but I think NDG and others have established just how good Canadians could be.
I'd suspect that all-black Jubilee was probably photographed towards the end of it's life when it was most likely only getting enough maintanance to keep it alive until its diesel replacement showed up. Easier to paint it all black than do all the detail work it needed to look good in it's glory days.
Used in freight service? On a branch line possibly, where it wouldn't be pulling much to begin with.
Here's the pic of a Jubilee hauling 60 cars.
Don't let anyone tell you a Jubilee couldn't pull much! More common on the prairies freight here we see Extra 2929 West bound for Smiths Falls with 60 cars! Might have been slippery getting underway but she made it. Dorval, Quebec April 5, 1958 Ron Ritchie/Ron Visockis digital restoration
Miningmanhere we see Extra 2929 West bound for Smiths Falls with 60 cars! Might have been slippery getting underway but she made it.
In keeping with Larry Niven's characterization of a thrint, I think it might be wise, albeit not precisely exact, to think of this locomotive as substantially more than half a 'Mohawk that refused to abdicate' with, say, 120 cars on part of the Water Level Route.
There'd be issues with high-speed slipping and all the usual T1 problems about upsetting four-coupled adhesion on low joints and frogs and the like ... but that's likely in a speed range the 2900-class Jubilees didn't occupy much. (Although it is highly interesting to consider what one of these could have done with lightweight rods, one of the lighter disc mains for better angled balance accommodation, and some of the usual-suspects valve improvements...
I note with some potentially-unjust amusement the stack arrangement on that 'freight-painted' Jubilee. If anyone suspected this was lowball cost-cutting, note the expensively-ground-to-contour streamlined stack surround -- with the tall conventional stack sticking up out of it, utterly ruining the suave high-speed intent.
Sixty cars tied to its tail and making a good job of it?
That was one good piece of gear!
Still, kind of an insult to have a classy passenger locomotive pulling a freight. The N&W had Class J's pulling freights at the end too. Sacriledge!
That philistine Saunders had no class at all.
Good eye there Overmod. That stack arraignment tells a story doesn't it. Sigh.
Besides Hudson's, Selkirks, and Jubilees, did CP apply streamling to any other engines?
On another note, if anybody gets up a project to revive Steamtown's Jubilee, I might kick in a few bucks. Or is it too far gone?
Many Pacifics were semi streamlined but not the full treatment.
Montreal West November 2, 1951 Canadian Pacific Railway/Steve Morris Collection
I always prefer the streamlining of CP Jubilees to Royal Hudson...These smaller streamlined 4-4-4 grew on me in time. I didn't know they had a tough life in their old age though.
\
Fr.AlOn another note, if anybody gets up a project to revive Steamtown's Jubilee, I might kick in a few bucks. Or is it too far gone?
The problem is that 'too far gone' is relative to other things related to opportunity cost. The Jubilee is too small to run many of the prospective excursions out of Scranton, while probably having a minimum appetite for coal higher than, say, an Atlantic of comparable adhesion would. Dollar for dollar, anything spent at Steamtown would be better served on the B&M Pacific, which is more 'rightsized' as well, and which is much closer to operating completion -- speed the day!
Cosmetic restoration to 'stability' is another matter, which for Americans involves a certain amount of 'do we care?' factor. It's odd, it's specifically Canadian, it's not enough of a tourist draw to count as high priority. On the other hand, pay enough or get enough volunteer action and it could probably be vaulted up in priority...
Fr.Al Besides Hudson's, Selkirks, and Jubilees, did CP apply streamling to any other engines? On another note, if anybody gets up a project to revive Steamtown's Jubilee, I might kick in a few bucks. Or is it too far gone?
I think this photo is fairly recent, but that Jubilee looks downright nasty.
http://www.rgusrail.com/album/pascollection/cp_2929_04.jpg
Canadian locomotive in an American collection or not, I think it's a damn disgrace to let it go like that. Maybe it's only skin-deep, and the innards aren't in bad shape, but if they can't take care of it they should de-acession it to someone who CAN take care of it.
FWIW. 2851 views.
NDGMore Streamlined Locomotives. https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%20Rail_no509_2005.pdf
https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%20Rail_no509_2005.pdf
The faces on p.218 say it ALL.
Flintlock76 I think this photo is fairly recent, but that Jubilee looks downright nasty. http://www.rgusrail.com/album/pascollection/cp_2929_04.jpg Canadian locomotive in an American collection or not, I think it's a damn disgrace to let it go like that. Maybe it's only skin-deep, and the innards aren't in bad shape, but if they can't take care of it they should de-accession it to someone who CAN take care of it.
Canadian locomotive in an American collection or not, I think it's a damn disgrace to let it go like that. Maybe it's only skin-deep, and the innards aren't in bad shape, but if they can't take care of it they should de-accession it to someone who CAN take care of it.
Sad! Reminds me of how MILW "treat" their Class A and F-7 :
Canadian Pacific would not let a steam locomotive to deteriorate that far on their property. Milwaukee did but any picture of locomotives at the scrap yard or in the process of being scrapped will be a very sad sight indeed regardless.
Condition of Locomotives.
The Railways and Bell Telephone. Icons of Our Era. Many Others.
SCRAP the damn Thing. CP 5361, TOO!
Now now. My iPhone 10 still says Bell at the top left as the service. We still have some Jubilees around, not working and they look like crap but we got them and hopefully the saga of 5361 is not done with yet.
However of course I know what you mean NDG. Something that was so vital and important and such an integral part of everyday existence has all but vanished from sight. It is not the same.
As the last generation that was familiar with these it is important we keep the torch lit, no matter how small the flame that is left.
I was looking at the article on the Eaton's miniature trains in Canadian Rail 509 when I noticed that the photograph on page 209 showed a different model locomotive than the other photographs in the article. Since this was said to be before the real locomotives were complete, it may have shown an earlier version of the design for the 3000.
The boiler appears to be smaller in diameter and there is a dome like projection near the cab. But the obvious change is in the shape of the streamlined casing at the front. While the shape is similar, the footplate extends further forward with steps extending into the streamline casing on each side.
This is slightly reminiscent of 3001 as rebuilt with a "Royal Hudson" front end but with elements of the 3000 as built.
I assume that this locomotive was later modified to look like the real locomotives as built.
Peter
NDGStreamlining? http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/S.L.%202.JPG
For when you absolutely, positively, have to get shopped locomotives to their stalls overnight. Without getting smoke in your eyes going into the roundhouse at high speed -- thanks, NRC!
Does S.L.2 denote "shop locomotive"? (And isn't it amusing there apparently was no "S.L.1"?) This was the Weston shop switcher after 1930. Rebuilt out of what was originally a compound 4-6-0 of 1892.
To me, shows great pride and interest even in small details.
Was not scrapped, apparently, until 1958. Certainly a shame it was not preserved.
1892, imagine that. Certainly shows the pride and skill of the shop.
Ran across this, another rather surprising shop switcher.
Yes, that is the its number! 0000 is used for shop work. Winnipeg 11/20.2004 Terry May Ex MP-1 ex 401, ex 7601 nee 7254 SW900 GMD A1385 3/1958
[quote user="Overmod"]
Miningman Here is a one-of only... A Jubilee in the freight paint scheme of all black. The logic of a high speed passenger locomotive used in freight haulage escapes me. The second batch built were not the 'real ones' as designed. They were hand fired to boot which must have been quite the workout. I have posted a pic a while ago of a Jubilee pulling 60 cars on the Smith Falls division. Must have been an ordeal getting underway.
In Britain it was well-recognized that a good 4-6-0 could cover any service assigned to a nominally-larger Pacific -- the difference being in things 'other than performance'. It does not surprise me that a good 4-4-4 could start a train of 60 loads, and of course that it could "pull any train it could start". Of course that presumes knowledgeable and professional enginemen,
Liima never actually built a 4-8-6, did they? I think there was a proposal for a 4-10-6, which never saw the light of day.
Thank You, Sir.
No-one ever built a 4-8-6 Father, not in this country anyway. Overseas, maybe.
There was a proposed Lima 4-8-6 and I believe drawings were made, but the project never got anywhere.
There were, however, some 4-6-6's! Watch closely, but ignore the music, it doesn't suit the geographic location at all!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07dxgFsKZCY
Fr.AlLima never actually built a 4-8-6, did they? I think there was a proposal for a 4-10-6, which never saw the light of day.
This is actually two things.
Lima did, in fact, go a long way toward actually building a 4-8-6; Col. Townsend was actively advertising it long beyond the practical end of new steam-locomotive orders, and in my opinion it was really the consummation of the BLH merger (and the nearly-immediate utter disassembly of Lima as a builder) that kept at least one developed design (added to the cleverly-retouched picture in the ad) from being developed. The double-Belpaire boiler was actually test-fabricated (at 1/4 scale, very large for a model) and in fact survives today in a museum collection.
Meanwhile, a 4-10-6 drawing that I was told was derived as an expanded version of the 4-8-6 was published, I think in Trains Magazine. I don't remember the actual issue, but someone drew a pencil copy of it which is in the possession of the Casey Jones Museum in Jackson, TN.
Really? I do remember that 4-8-6 and they offered steam late in the game in their catalogue. Yeah Lima got the short end of the merger for sure. Did Baldwin not highjack their Centre Cab transfer locomotive as well and sort of flubbed it up.
Would Lima not have been in a very good cash position at the end of WWII? They certainly had the smarts. They just seemed so independent in their thinking from the rest. If FM could make such a splash you would think Lima could make a bigger one. Was there any development at all toward a road Diesel besides the road switchers LRS-1200's for NYC and those monster transfer units?
Well one things for sure, they sure knew how to build a long lasting powerful and beautiful steam locomotive many of which are still with us. SP, T&P, C&O, PM, NKP the Diamond builders plate lives on.
Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton.
Why does that remind me of three drowning men grabbing each other in a vain attempt to keep their heads above water?
Sad.
MiningmanWas there any development at all toward a road Diesel besides the road switchers LRS-1200's for NYC and those monster transfer units?
Therein lies, in my opinion, the secret of what happened to all the 'advanced' steam being developed by them in the late Forties. It involves something called the free-piston engine.
This involved using pistons in cylinders solely as a gas generator, running the resulting combustion gas through a turbine. Reasonably good success was had with this in making air compressors for submarines in the Thirties, in Germany, and among the entities embracing this nifty idea as producing very high, very scalable rail horsepower at diesel economy and quite low mass per hp was the Hamilton Engine Company. Personally I suspect Lima, interested in Super-Power, acquired Hamilton for this instead of their reliable old boat-anchor line of switcher-class inline motors; I also suspect that this was the underlying jewel in the crown for the acquisition of Lima-Hamilton by tired old Baldwin and their Westinghouse taskmasters.
This is the great age of the diesel-hydraulic, for great lightness in passenger power, as well as the short period the great Ingalls combine was considering the Bowes drive for light, effective drive in a relatively small 2000hp PA competitor. And you see repeated reference into the early 1950s about a 4000hp free-piston engine from them ... as well as reference to free-piston rail developments elsewhere in the world.
All this came to a screeching halt (pun not exactly unintended) sometime in the middle Fifties, when issues with intake noise and stroke synchronization noise made high-power free-piston gas generators a VERY unpleasant subject. GM actually went so far as to build a carbody for their version (look up "FG9") before It Became Abundantly Clear The Neighbors Would Complain.
Baldwin, meanwhile, having experimented with high-speed German engines and Mekydro transmission as a (decidedly dubious!) alternative to soon-to-be-deprecated Westinghouse railroad electricals, and then losing a large PRR second-generation order to EMD, gave up on domestic production entirely, even in 'their own name'. And most of the rest is predictable history, except for the premature orphaning and death of the Lima-Hamilton switcher and road-switcher line, which was truly unfortunate -- my understanding is their build quality was literally second to none in most respects. If pathetically underpowered by actual Lima locomotive standards...
Thank you Overmod for that perspective on the way things unfolded.
Yes long time and faithful friend Pennsy snubbed their go to builder Baldwin with a contract award for 600 Geeps to EMD opposite Baldwins tender of an equivalent number of RF or AS something's. This was all for the last push in the Dieselization across the system.
Obviously it was clear to Pennsy by that time that depending on 600 more Baldwin locomotives out there would be a nightmare.
Likely Alco was given lip service consideration as their, lets say, PA's were giving them fits and really no match in reliability to EMD. It would have been spiffy though to see 600 RS-18 types out there instead of Geeps.
So perhaps the Lima-Hamilton company seemed a good thing and should have rebuked and fought off anything to do with anyone else.
Who knows what they could have come up with on their own, even with advanced steam designs that were being touted elsewhere in the world.
A rendering of C&O 4-8-6
In the book "Perfecting the American Steam Locomotive" By J. Parker Lamb, page 166, there is a "rendering" of C&O J3a using rotary cam poppet valve, double Belpaire firebox and a 6-wheel trailing truck frame with only 2 wheels on one side. The author mentions that Lima didn't put a lot of effort to promote the new engine but a model of double Belpaire firebox was built within 1948.
Lima probably couldn't find enough railroad to invest their 4-8-6 and could smell a dead-end of steam engine ahead. Therefore, they changed their approach and tried to interest the NYCRR to replace the boiler of their Hudson with the double Belpaire firebox. The book is available on Google Books.
M636CThe view above shows the system , which appears to include a counterbalance weight.
Unless I'm badly mistaken, that's the vacuum diaphragm housing. Look carefully in the shadow "below" for the vertical pipe connection.
At one time I had some technical details on these in conjunction with discussions on 'steam locomotive MUing'. For some reason I'm now having difficulty finding the references again. Can someone please post links?
Overmod Unless I'm badly mistaken, that's the vacuum diaphragm housing. Look carefully in the shadow "below" for the vertical pipe connection. At one time I had some technical details on these in conjunction with discussions on 'steam locomotive MUing'. For some reason I'm now having difficulty finding the references again. Can someone please post links?
In your last respond of this thread "Steam that could have been" on Trains dot com forum:
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/228310.aspx?sortorder=desc&page=2
you mention about MUing and "...Note that much of the automatic control in the Cook '219 patent was presaged by Doble's and Besler's work on steam automobiles." Is that the reference you are looking for?
Jones1945In your last respond of this thread "Steam that could have been" on Trains dot com forum: http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/228310.aspx?sortorder=desc&page=2 you mention about MUing and "...Note that much of the automatic control in the Cook '219 patent was presaged by Doble's and Besler's work on steam automobiles." Is that the reference you are looking for?
No. The patent involved is this one from 1936, involving at least semi-automated firing. What we are considering here are the arrangements used to control steam, both throttle and cutoff, when there is no 'hand' in the cab. The British 'auto-trains' and the LBE sets in Germany feature this, and there are references that show some of the apparatus used.
This in turn is separate from the experiments done in the early Twenties to provide automatic proportional cutoff (something that becomes easier and somewhat more precise still if you have Valve Pilot installed and properly calibrated) and the approach Franklin Railway Supply used with the type-D conversion for USATC (components for the 'kit' made by Vulcan in Wilkes-Barre!) in the late '40s.
Too bad... In case our newcomer or lurker doesn't know how push-pull steam train operated in the UK, please take a look at this animation (not my video):
A picture of the driving cab at the front of the autocoach. This is the place for the engineer to control the steam engine which is in the middle of the consist:
http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/vis/1450/ericn_drives_kenu_16feb08h.jpg
Yeah what's so striking about the Canadian experience with the end of steam was the great variety of engine types, the sheer numbers as they were everywhere, the full roundhouses, the condition and appearance of most all of them being kept up so nice. Steam was everywhere in abundance 1957, wee bit less 1958 but still plenty of variety and common and early 1959 still. It was that summer and fall you really saw the difference as entire roundhouses full simply vanished.
We have heard these observations from visitors to London and Niagara Falls. One weekend steam everywhere and bustling and the very next weekend everything is gone and only Diesels. Just like that.
As NDG has pointed out some in new paint, still wet, beautifully maintained. CNR engines freshly shopped out of Stratford. Hundreds of small light engines serving branch lines up in the Bruce Pennisula overnight ..gone.
Both CNR and CPR ...big systems, purged on one fatal date on the calendar ... and by mutual agreement!
Familiar engines, familiar numbers. That is what was so traumatic.
As NDG stated, we waited, watched and listened.
A last late flurry around Montreal of a select few and then all went quiet. Stories of a run from Winnipeg to Kenora, was it true?
Then the roundhouses, the water tank, the coal towers, the watchmans tower.
Then the passenger trains and the colours, maroon and green/gold. Then the telegraph wire, familiar freight cars, the station.
It was steam and all those engines that we knew that hurt the most. When the curtains closed on the theatre and the new show began it was only a mere shadow of its former self.
You can't fool an old horse fly.
I could be wrong, but I wasn't aware that Canada had a great variety of steam locomotives to begin with. CT not so long ago carried an article about Canda's only Mallets, later rebuilt.
Certainly the beautifully streamlined Selkirks, Hudson's, and Jubilees were unique. The latter wheel arrangement I the States was found only on the Reading. Still, it must have been thrilling for US fans to experience Canadian steam at its finest during those last years.
Fr. Al.--Well yeah. Besides 4-4-0s. 0-4-0's, 0-6-0's, 0-8-0's, 0-10-0's, 2-6-0's, 2-8-0's , 2-8-2's, 2-10-2's, 4-6-0's, 0-10-2's, 4-6-0's 4-8-0's 4-6-4's, 4-6-2's, 4-8-4's, 2-10-4's, 4-8-2's, 2-8-4's, and most all of those in numerous sub classes from a plethora of builders, experimental things , Shays, Hieslers and Climax's and probably some more that I left off, yeah not much variety.
Such a small land, only between the Atlantic and Pacific and up to the Arctic Ocean just doesn't require variety! But yes we didn't need no stinkin' mallets.
PS I see I forgot the 2-6-2 Prairie Type.. not terribly popular or in great numbers but there would have been had the CNR's post war order of 300 of them happened... that would have been most interesting!
.
Canada had 0-10-2s? Let me see the pictures! (Rebuilt from 2-10-2s?)
For some reason in various parts of the world not neccesarily communicating with eachother, the 2-6-2 was seen as the "way ahead"
In Poland, East and West Germany and even Japan new designs of 2-6-2 were prepared or built.
In West Germany, there was a 2-6-2 version of the Class 10 three cylinder Pacific seriously considered.
This might have related to the use of roller bearings reducing the risk of load related bearing failure and better methods of side control....
in ...... Added (scroll down to links between yellow charts) 0-10-2 yard engine with cut ...
Overmod.. it's in here somewhere.
Overmod-- Here you go
What was that unusual Camelback we discussed a few months ago? Wasn't that a 0-10-2?
1026 (re# 3230) Only 2-8-0 Camelback. Built by Richmond Locomotive Works #2804 3/1899 Built as a compound with Wooten firebox to burn anthracite coal. This engine and five D11 camelback 4-6-0's all worked west out of Medicine Hat.
Only Camelbacks in Canada were these. Perhaps you were thinking of a Tank Locomotive of the St. Clair Tunnel Company, Grand Trunk RR which actually started life as a Camelback. They were 0-10-0's
600 0-10-0T specs. and photo credit Later rebuilt with tender. See below.
St.Clair Tunnel Co. 1304 (ex 601) 0-10-0 Decapod with side tanks removed (1898) and tender added. Cyl. 22" x 28" Drv. 50" Press. 160 lbs. t.e. 58,500 One of four built as 0-10-0T Camelback by Baldwin 1891
Yes, that's the engine I WAS thinking of.
M636C--.Thanks for 2-6-2 Prairie type input. Logically you would think the 2-6-2 was a real winner and as popular as a Mike would be but that never happened. Just about everybody had a few, a very few, and they never caught on.
I think they were an example of 'un-optimized' , if that's even a word, circumstance. What seems good actually is the worst of the features of those types bracketing it.
Something must have occurred in technology advances, as Peter has stated specifically, that fixed deficiencies and suddenly put them, post war, in a great light again.
Perhaps Overmod can shed some bright light on why they seemed to be such a weak sister and their sudden rock star status that never happened.
MiningmanPerhaps Overmod can shed some bright light on why they seemed to be such a weak sister and their sudden rock star status that never happened.
Certainly not a weak sister in Russia!
I suspect you will find plenty of them in use on ATSF, too. Note the special circumstances that made those popular.
Part of the issue is that they had the same basic problem a Mogul did: three driver pairs with a two-wheel leading truck was the wrong compromise for most general service, and the 'better' design was a 2-8-0 on the freight side and the choice between a 4-6-0 and a 4-6-2 for passenger work. By the time a 'good enough' equalization and guiding setup was engineered for a non-Krauss-Helmholtz type leading truck arrangement, the sorts of traffic a 2-6-2 would be suited for were no longer cost-effective for working with steam -- especially brand-new steam with all its associated costs.
The same logic that generates a small Jubilee out of not-quite-the-need-for-a-Hudson quite handily establishes a counterpart for not-quite-the-need-for-a-Mikado. (We can invoke Lewty-booster economics for starting TE and low-speed power if we need to.) Problem is justifying new-build cost for what is usually a niche filled by hand-me-down older locomotives ... a niche often much more adequately filled 'new' by internal-combustion locomotives when those have reached a sufficient stage of sophistication.
Then again, with respect to that 'rock-star status', there were these (which should be beloved of Becky if they aren't already)
Killed off in a hissy-fit of jealousy after NYC asserted fuller control over motive power from 'home' in the East ... although admittedly they might have been burned over the Wilgus use of two-wheel Bissels on the new electrics, one of which got in a massive wreck almost the first time it was run in servlce.
Thanks for that Overmod. Nice depiction of the 20th Century and LS&MS.
After WWII the CPR ordered 600 G5/G6 class Pacifics to replace worn out war weary older Pacifics and ten wheelers. Then Dieselization caused the cancelling of the order after 100 were actually built.
At the same time and for the same reasons the CNR requested a massive order of 2-6-2 Prairies. That seems surprising to me. I assume these were actually for use in the actual Prairies, branchlines and such. Again the nasty Diesel put an end to that fun.
It is puzzling though. Of course when the CPR yinged the CNR yanged.
2-6-2T seemed to have had some popularity on lumber and mining lines. They were probably more like bi-directional moguls.
Beautiful! There were also the CN 4-6- 4T commuter engines. One was Steamtown's original locomotive before the ICC inspector forced them to shut it down.
Fr.Al Beautiful! There were also the CN 4-6- 4T commuter engines. One was Steamtown's original locomotive before the ICC inspector forced them to shut it down.
Yes, that was Steamtown's CN # 47. The locomotives papers were lost in a roundhouse fire in Canada, and the ICC inspector said "No papers, no running."
Steamtown could have gone the whole route of boiler and other inspections if they wanted to, but with plenty of other engines in the stable they chose not to. Understandable.
I'll tell you, if I had the money (don't we all wish that?) I'd make an offer to Steamtown to fund the restoration of 47. There'd be a condition, though. I'd like it cosmetically altered to resemble a Jersey Central 4-6-4T. It'd go great with all that CNJ passenger rolling stock they've got!
Besides, the CN is where the CNJ got the idea for a 4-6-4T to begin with.
NO disrespect intended to our Canadian friends and brethren!
I'd like to see both that engine and the Jubilee up and running. Does anyone know about the status of the B&M Pacific being restored? Is that the engine that used to be displayed outside the Boston Museum of Science? When I went to school in New Hampshire, I used to hitchhike down there to see it. There was a retired B&M engineer on duty there. He told me,"Son, you don't want to go into railroading. It's all finished." This was in 1970, when the B&M was just about finished.
Fr.Al I'd like to see both that engine and the Jubilee up and running. Does anyone know about the status of the B&M Pacific being restored? Is that the engine that used to be displayed outside the Boston Museum of Science? When I went to school in New Hampshire, I used to hitchhike down there to see it. There was a retired B&M engineer on duty there. He told me,"Son, you don't want to go into railroading. It's all finished." This was in 1970, when the B&M was just about finished.
The preserved B&M P-4 is #3713, you could find the detail of her preservation progress in the below website:
http://www.project3713.com/the-locomotive/
http://www.project3713.com/faq/
A 3D animation of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GxbpODotVE
The 'skyline' streamlining on the boiler was removed.
My 2nd favorite Pacific in America.
Geez I wonder who ended up with that after all the years.
Here is 2816 before it achieved fame , in regular service in those dying days of steam '59-'60.
FYI 2819 was the last of the non-streamlined Hudsons 2800-2819. Scroll to bottom pic.
H1b 2816 (MLW #68535 12/1930) when it was just another 2800. Who would have ever guessed its future?On the table at the Glen off the suburban train below. 6/22/1959 Bob Krone
2816 with suburban (commuter) train from Rigaud at Montreal West. 6/22/1959 Bob Krone
2816 Gallery
H1b 2819 last standard 2800. MLW 68538 12/1930 Montreal April 1952 Bruce Chapman Collection
Here is the first one 2800, just out of the Angus shops with some big honkin' elephant ears.
H1a 2800 (first of ten) fresh out of Angus shops poses for its official photograph. MLW 68058 11/1929 Note the background whiteout of shop. Canadian Pacific Railway/Walter Pfefferle Collection
I wonder how those elephant ears worked out in the long run? Maybe not so well?
From what I've read how effective "ears" were depended on a lot of variables such as locomotive configuration and usual operating speeds.
I think the fact that the ears were removed within a few years (I presume usually at the next visit to main shops) speaks to how beneficial they proved to be.
Miningman H1a 2800 (first of ten) fresh out of Angus shops poses for its official photograph. MLW 68058 11/1929 (Canadian Pacific Railway/Walter Pfefferle Collection)
MLW 68058 11/1929 (Canadian Pacific Railway/Walter Pfefferle Collection)
This is of more interest, I think, than it's getting.
First, this date is a year or more before the NRC research into smoke-lifting streamlining. Second, those ears are very similar to (much later) developments on, for example, UP and NYC in shape and size, and I can't imagine the Canadian Pacific examples performing much differently in practice. There has to be more to this story.
2810 with experimental inboard smoke deflectors.Outremont shop track 5/1937Lawrence Stuckey/Bruce Chapman Collection
2808 brand new ex MLW. December 1929. CPR/Steve Morris Collection
First of ten H1b 2810 (MLW #68529 11/1930) in official photograph. Canadian Pacific Railway/Bud Laws Collection
These are Builders photos of first batch 2800-2809 and second batch 2810-2819 with no smoke deflectors so I'm thinking the picture of 2800 with the smoke deflectors is from a later shopping and not the original builders photo.
The smoke deflectors were applied by CPR to only a handful of engines in several classes in the late 1930s, and were removed again in the late 1940s and very early 1950s. None came from the builder so equipped.
John
Thanks for the clarification John
2812 in original appearance. Location and date unknown except prior to May 12, 1936 when running board panel applied with engine number relocated there and shield logo applied to the cab in its place. Bud Laws Collection
2813 outshopped with smoke deflectors. Montreal 1936 CPR/Steve Morris Collection
So I would have to say that 1936 is when they were applied along with other changes
The future is here. General Motors 754 A-B-A F3 diesels on CNR sit beside 2810 in Ottawa Union Station. These Electro Motive demonstrator diesels were handed over to the CNR at Central Station MontrealMay 27,1948 and used on various runs. Addy Schwalm/Bruce Chapman Collection
The Diesels came and the Hudsons found themselves schlepping coal
H1a 2807 (MLW #68605 12/1929) with empty hoppers for coal loading at Prescott. Ottawa West c.1950 Addy Schwalm/Bruce Chapman Collection
H1b 2812 with experimental smoke deflectors. MLW 68531 11/1930
Miningman 2810 with experimental inboard smoke deflectors.Outremont shop track 5/1937Lawrence Stuckey/Bruce Chapman Collection
I like this kind of smoke deflector which does not cover the staircase and the catwalk, a similar design could be found on B&M P4 and PRR S2 (the smaller version). I think CPR Hudson look better without smoke deflector though.
I'm glad they removed them for good early 50's. This looks a bit deranged.
Here is 2815 again by this time downgraded to freight service (running Extra) out of Montreal. January 1950Canadian Pacific Railway/Steve Morris Collection
Miningman I'm glad they removed them for good early 50's. This looks a bit deranged. Here is 2815 again by this time downgraded to freight service (running Extra) out of Montreal. January 1950Canadian Pacific Railway/Steve Morris Collection
eww!! This is the reason why I do not like the appearance of New York Central's Mohawk and Niagara as well as the late version of PRR S2 #6200. Speaking of anthropomorphism, these "elephant ears"(aka Wagner-type smoke deflectors) make them looks like a lady wearing a dress with oversized shoulder pads! Anyway, smoke deflectors were not designed for beautification but in many cases, a smoke deflector could make a steam engine looks better or equally beautiful, even the engine has a lower profile.
Interesting thing about smoke deflectors, to me anyway.
I see photos of engines with them, and they look like they belong there and always did. Then I photos of other engines with them and they look downright awkward and ridiculous.
It all depends, I guess.
Flintlock76 Interesting thing about smoke deflectors, to me anyway. I see photos of engines with them, and they look like they belong there and always did. Then I photo of other engines with them and they look downright awkward and ridiculous. It all depends, I guess.
I see photos of engines with them, and they look like they belong there and always did. Then I photo of other engines with them and they look downright awkward and ridiculous.
Agree. It is just a personal preference thing. Just as some people never like any streamlined or semi-streamlined steam engine, some people like me found some of them incredibly beautiful. Some people from the EU never interested in trains in America, some people love other's countries train more than their own country.
Yes, some people even become violent as they express their dislikes--in an early issue after the first all-diesel issue of Trains (there was a picure of a steam locomotive in the news section of that issue), David P. Morgan had a picture of a copy of that issue which had been returned; the copy was torn into two pieces.
And, about the same time, one subscriber expressed the desire that the magazine limit its coverage to United States railroading.
I remember someone objected to the predominantly Interurban issue. It was Spring 2013, I think. It wasn't even 100% Interurban. There were photos of the newest 4-4-0' s in service and MoPac's Mallet as well.
You remember correctly Father, I remember that angry letter to the "Classic Trains" editor over the "Interurban" issue myself.
Quite honestly I was amazed at that. I'm not a big interurban fan myself but I found the issue absolutely fascinating, a "steel-wheel on steel-rail" story I knew little about. I still have the issue, it never made it to the recycling bin!
The CRHA bulletins were a lifeline for us in those days and continued to be for a long time yet. Thankfully we had fellas like Omer Lavalee around, guys with the passion for steam.
They were traumatic days for us as well. We saw the smaller roads go all Diesel pretty early like the Ontario Northland and the TH&B. US roads through Southern Ontario, Pere Marquette, Wabash and New York Central lost all steam early too.
Then our streetcar tracks get ripped up, for me in Hamilton, for you in Montreal. Ugly.
Never thought the Royal Hudsons, the 6400 Northerns, the brand new CPR Pacifics, the Selkirks, the 6200 4-8-4's series that won a war, others just newly totally rebuilt out of the big shops, never thought they were in peril, good for 25 more years at least.
Nobody could be that wasteful. Wrong!
A steady march into the blast furnaces in Hamilton. Difficult to understand.
That was just the beginning. Everything (except The Canadian) went to pieces.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter