1947 view of the yard at Michigan & Wyoming Avenues, before PCCs arrived:
My guess is that it is the northern terminal of the Woodward Avenue Line (Oak Park?) before it was cut back to Eight Milke Road. The Michigan Avenue route sign might be an error, or the car was to be through-routed out to Wyoming Avenue for some special service.
My guess is that it is the northern terminal of the Woodward Avenue Line (Oak Park?) before it was cut back to Eight Milke Road. The Michigan Avenue route sign might be an error, or the car was to be through-routed out to Wyoming Avenue for some special servive.
Michigan Ave. and Woodward Ave. meet at Campus Martius Park, but it is downtown, whereas the photo looks like out in the country. I live in Michigan, and our library has a 3 volume set on the Railroads of Eastern Michigan, which is trolley heavy. I'll try to get down there to see if they can give a clue.
Help by answering this puzzle/ The previous picture has a Peter Witt with a Woodward route sign, but here, at the same locatiom, a Peter Witt with a Michigan (Av.) sign. Just where was this loop?
An sttempt at an interior photo:
woodward Avenue PCC, southbound:
The next to last line that did not use PCCs was Mack, two downtown photos:
Fort did get PCCs and was through routed with Kerchiaval, but this downtown photo was taken earlier:
Fourteen also never got PCCs and was an early bus conversion. Downtown Grand Army Plaza off-street loop and north end of the line, loop on Detroit University campus, with operators' facilities building matching the campus architecture:
Baker was the last line that did not use PCCs, but converted directly to bus (early 1949?). It was alsdo the only line providing full-time service to the Ford River Rouge Plant, with Michigan (later Michigan-Gratiot), and Fort-Kerchival running there rush hours and shift-change times only.
I first visited Detroit, with my parents, in January 1942. We used the Empire State Express both ways. Even at going on age 10 I explored the streetcar lines, but without a camera. The Woodward Avenue Line at that time ran at least all the way to Royal Oak. Possibly even as far a Birmingham, But I did not have time to go beyond Royal Oak before turning back to be in time for dinner.
After WWII, the line was cust back to 8-Mile Road, where a chrt-turn loop was already in use, and a covered interchsnge station to buses constructed, as in the 1947 picture. A year PCCs replaced the Peter Witts, and shown on an earlier posting.
The Peter-Witt heading toward the camera will turn left on Wyoming Avenue for the rush-hour and shift-change extension of the Michigan Avenue line to the Ford River-Rouge plant. The car wirh the blind side in the view is on the regular turn-back loop.
But Woodward Avenue has real-use streetcar tracks again.
Just call it light rail.
I haven't been to Cobo Hall in some years. There was still a section of DSR track embedded in Washington Blvd. that ran for about 100 yards. I'm sure it's been tore out since Washington Blvd. was resurfaced some years ago.
Page 118 of Cox's Birney Book mentions the DSR's one-off Birney replacement, here photographed at the Michigan-and-Wyoming yard in 1948.
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The arrivals' platform was open without fencing.
daveklepperI suspect the fencing with gates at the streetcar door locations, was done just before or even during WWII
I'd be more inclined to find it being related to the labor unrest in the 1930s, when protecting access to the plant from this or other mass transit might have been somewhat 'difficult'.
Vince, I doubt very much it's a "mortal sin" to post trolley models on the CT site, I'm sure most will find it interesting.
I've got several myself I run on the O gauge layout. An Atlas Public Service, an Lionel Bergen County Transit, an MTH Jersey Transit PCC, a Bowser VTC car and an MTH one as well, limited run club collector cars.
By the way VTC stands for "Virginia Train Collectors," but we all fudge it a bit and say it means "Virginia Transit Company!"
Transit Gloria Mundi!
Wayne
From Dave:
Thanks! Richard Allman thanked me for DSR pix and sent a pic of his model.Should these be posted on the Classic Trains Detroit threat?There is an old thread (mine) on his layout in the MR Forum.
Not a fan of model pics on Classic but in the case of these two distinguished gentleman how can you resist.
New thought. Could it have been Henry Ford's idea?
Most unusual. I suspect the fencing with gates at the streetcar door locations, was done just before or even during WWII, when crowding on the platforms was common during shift changes and everyone used public transit because of economics and gas rationing. The pictures are from 1947 and 1948, when many had already switched to driving personal cars and service was reduced accordingly,
Does anyone know of any other streetcar terminal with this sort of fencing?
Similar mutli-track-with-loop streetcar terminals existed in New York City:
Underground at 2nd Ave. and 59th-60th Streets for Queensboro Bridge
Underground at Delancy and Essex Streets for Williamsburg Bridge
Park Row City Hall for Brooklyn Bridge
Coney Island for McDonald Avenue and Coney Island Avenue lines
Underground in Newark, still existing, for Newark City Subway
Cleveland's Public Square had four such terminals with loops!
East Bay Terminal had high platforms for the three interurban lines and street-level loops for Muni streetcars
None had this kind of fencing
daveklepper Four pictures of the Ford River Rouge Plant terminal, beginning with the inbound track and then views in each direction over the whole four-track terminal.
Four pictures of the Ford River Rouge Plant terminal, beginning with the inbound track and then views in each direction over the whole four-track terminal.
Was it usual for streetcar terminals to have so much fencing between the platform and the tracks they served? Only the inbound track has an open platform.
I don't see why we could not have both.
Unfortunately, at that time the money would have been wasted. People were deserting public transit of all kinds in favor of their own automobiles during the postwar prosperity.
David's streetcar postings always remind me of the lines from the Joni Mitchell song "Big Yellow Taxi..."
"Don't it always seem to go, and you don't know what you've got till it's gone!"
And now a lot of urban areas are prepared to spend millions to re-create what was, and was thrown away. Imagine if they put the money into refurbishing them in the 1940's and '50's.
For pictures of the Ford River Rouge Plant terminal, beginning with the inbound track and then views in each direction over the whole four-track terminal.
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