That's interesting, I didn't know the CNR had a steamship operation.
I took a closer look at SS Dalhousie City and uh-oh! Naughty-naughty! They're flying the Union Jack from the jackstaff! Only the Royal Navy is allowed to do that! They should be using the Merchant Navy jack, which is the Union Jack with a white border.
But I won't say anything to the RN if no-one else does...
Good-looking ships, by the way!
The CPR would not make such an error! Maybe it's a tourist thing but still...
CNR being a ward of the Crown, it doesn't surprise me. The only folks who can screw up regulations would be a government run one!
Well, there would be an exception if HM King George V was on board, but somehow I doubt that's the case.
Well isn't that special! I'm kinda split on the monarchy, I understand their role and to some extent the need for some representation of Head of State but geez, don't they put their pants on like the rest of us?
I'm reminded of the scene in the latest Churchill movie where Sir Winston has to kiss the Kings hand and walk backwards, not turning his back on the Monarch as he exits the room.
It will always be someone anyway, a Dictator, a Tyrant, some super rich person, some celebrity with the brains of a twit. Never ends.
I saw that Churchill movie too, and I'll tell you I was impressed when King George VI came to see Winston to buck him up when he was down. George was a good man, much better than his brother the erstwhile Edward VIII who, as Basil Rathbone said, "Walked away when his country needed him." Basil didn't care for Edward all that much, and said the right man became king after all.
And George was a steam fan, he did enjoy the cab ride on that CPR Royal Hudson! What more can we say?
I think it was William L. Shirer who, in his The Rise and Fall of the Thrd Reich, wrote that the Duke of Windsor was not against Adoph HItler--and Hitler planned to install the Duke as the puppet head of the English government.
Johnny
It's possible Johnny, but we'll never know for certain because it never happened. The Windsors were evacuated from France by the Royal Navy when it was apparant the Germans were going to take the country. Whether Windsor would have agreed to be a German puppet king to begin with is anyone's guess.
But that is the supposition.
Wayne
PS: I just remembered that any doumentation linking the Duke of Windsor with the Nazis is supposedly locked away in the library and archives at Windsor Castle, purportedly not to be seen for at least 100 years, that is, if it's ever seen again to begin with.
But... there are repercussions even today.
And then there was Windsor, which was a non-starter given that the last Duke of Windsor was the former King Edward VIII, who abdicated to marry another American divorcee, Wallis Simpson, and had some rather uncomfortable ties to the Nazis.
Well, I have a book that shows my line back to Edward III and fat lot of good it's done me over the years having Plantagenet blood.
Being a Cleveland girl I love the lake steamers. Here's one that docked back in July:
http://www.rockthelake.com/buzz/2018/06/cleveland-welcomes-great-lakes-cruise-ship/
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Well, Becky, if you trace your family history back farther, you come to the first Plantagenet king, Henry II, who was a great-grandson of William I.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Davies_Warfield https://ia801200.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/34/items/DukeAndDuchessOfWindsor/windsor1d_jp2.zip&file=windsor1d_jp2/windsor1d_0053.jp2&scale=5&rotate=0 https://ia801200.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/34/items/DukeAndDuchessOfWindsor/windsor1d_jp2.zip&file=windsor1d_jp2/windsor1d_0054.jp2&scale=5&rotate=0 https://ia801200.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/34/items/DukeAndDuchessOfWindsor/windsor1d_jp2.zip&file=windsor1d_jp2/windsor1d_0055.jp2&scale=5&rotate=0 https://ia801200.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/34/items/DukeAndDuchessOfWindsor/windsor1d_jp2.zip&file=windsor1d_jp2/windsor1d_0056.jp2&scale=5&rotate=0 https://ia801200.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/34/items/DukeAndDuchessOfWindsor/windsor1d_jp2.zip&file=windsor1d_jp2/windsor1d_0057.jp2&scale=5&rotate=0 Subject: Duke of Windsor's ranch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWOK4my0Nd4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgG3an8vS6o https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekisko,_Alberta
Subject: Duke of Windsor's ranch
I'm not a monarchist by any means, when I read of British government and society in the 18th Century, the corruption, the inefficiency, the nepotism, I say thank God for the American Revolution and the men who fought it!
Any of the above that we have here now we can only blame ourselves for.
But the British royals are interesting people, any way you look at it.
Wouldn't bother me a bit if we got rid of all the pomp and circumstance and malarkey that goes along with the Monarchy. It's not so ' in your face' as it used to be up here. The French in Quebec gave it lip service and downright disgust at times.
Union Jacks flew everywhere when I was kid. Heck there were more Union Jacks than Red Ensigns flying. I never got that, never.
"I wonder how things are in the colonies today?"
My reply--" Aww, blow it out your ear"
I do enjoy the juicy scandals though.
Hot off the presses .. this is actually quite interesting ... lots of train action, including the Silver Meteor. Big thanks to Mike for uncovering this.
Clipings from the Toronto Star
Ah, the Duke of Windsor and "THAT woman!" as Lady Firestorm's mother used to call her.
Lady F's mom was a proud Newfoundlander, "The SENIOR British colony!" as she used to call it, and told Lady F that when Edward VIII abdicated in 1937 she and her friends were heartbroken. "Why Mom?" Lady F asked.
"Oh, he was so handsome!"
"HIM? That horse-face?"
"Oh, you don't understand..."
As time went on Mom realized the better man got the throne, and was proud to call George VI and Queen Elizabeth (Later the "Queen Mum") her sovereigns.
It took a world war, though.
Penny says " Being a Cleveland girl I love the lake steamers. Here's one that docked back in July:"
During my summers in Port Dover on Lake Erie it was always a big deal when the Ferries came in from Cleveland, Ohio and Erie, Pa. Everyone went to the pier to watch. These regular scheduled runs dwindled and were pretty much gone by 1960. Too bad because it's a loooonnnng way around to drive but a short hop across the lake. They still run the occasional, maybe twice a year, for events, but not Ferries. Just a big lake cruise type ship. $4500 starting for today's multi day cruises...yeesh.
The CNR also had coal delivered to them in Port Dover and Port Dalhousie from the Bessemer and Lake Erie. CPR had theirs brought in at Port Burwell by the Pennsy from Ashtabula. Like I say, it's a long way around the lake by rail too! Those days are long gone now but lake freighters from Cleveland and other points still call around, to Port Dalhousie too as it is the water port for St. Catherine'. Industry and Railroading along with the Ferries and general freight lake boats have greatly diminished in the area. Not like it was even up to the 70's.
Check out these beauties docked at the Great Lakes Exposition of 1937:
If there's any moment of local history I would wish to time travel to visit, this would be it!
Those lake boats look like a lot of fun, but how'd everyone like a Lake Erie cruise on this old gal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qukAF8QAPSo
Since it exists I assume that perhaps you can. What an unforgettable experience that would be.
At my age I couldn't do much but could go as far as a person could on the bow and do the 'King of the world' thing. Then they probably keel haul me.
If I only got to load and fire the carronade I'd be a happy man indeed.
Maybe handle the wheel for bit as well. "A tall ship and a star to steer her by..."
Well let me try this again.
Firelock--- No way they let you have the wheel or touch anything to do with the cannon. Now you and me will both be keel hauled.
I'll only bombard any diesel locomotives in sight, I promise!
Now you're going to get thrown in the klink.
They'd have to catch me first!
"Let fly the fore-courses! Give 'er the mainsail, topsails and t'gallants! Stun'sls too! Every rag she'll carry!"
Now they are going to get you a shrink.
Firelock76If I only got to load and fire the carronade
In my freshman year of high school they still dragged the cannon out on the field and fired it during the national anthem. Being in the marching band, (the Valley Forge Patriots our mascot was a minuteman) we were always smack down range of the thing and even with a small charge it usually scared the bejesus out of at least 10 percent of us musicians!
Miningman Now they are going to get you a shrink.
Maybe they better, if I'm going to start having flashbacks to wars I was never in!
Hey Becky, I can imagine how even a small charge of black powder can scare you, especially if you don't know it's coming. Sometimes even if you DO know it's coming.
Here's a video of Lord Nelson's old flagship HMS Victory "firing a broadside." They're not actually shooting the great guns, what you see are pyrotechnic charges with about three ounces of black powder, and look at the bang they make!
Now, imagine what Victory's 24 pounders with their usual charge of eight pounds of powder must have been like!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnomDilySlA
"Come cheer up m'lads, 'tis to glory we steer,
And add something more to this wonderful year..."
Well ok... on the USS Niagara video they held a reenactment of the Battle of Lake Erie with 9 American and 6 British tall ships. So I suppose you are quite sane.
Man your cannon Firelock, think I have little choice but to be on the Canadian, err, British side. What a hoot that would be.
Sounds like fun, but a re-enactment only, mind you.
No more "Cousins Wars," not in this dangerous age we live in.
See, I can be serious!
Firelock76Give 'er the mainsail, topsails and t'gallants! Stun'sls too! Every rag she'll carry!"
You're from New Jersey, aren't you?
If you're going to say 't'gallants' then it would be t's'ls, NOT pronounced "top-sayles", and it's 'stuns'ls' (an abbreviation of 'studding sails' that needs no contraction in the first word, note where the apostrophe goes, just as 'rarin' to go' is NOT an abbreviation of 'raring to go). And you do not 'give her' the mains'l the way the Army Air Corps gives her the gun.
And 'let fly' applied to sails means to LOOSEN so they stop driving... dogs will go faster if you let them slip, and cannonballs if you let them fly, but there's a difference with tall ships.
It's all right, though. Just don't think you can move to Somalia just yet...
MiningmanI'm reminded of the scene in the latest Churchill movie where Sir Winston has to kiss the Kings hand and walk backwards, not turning his back on the Monarch as he exits the room.
This is VERY strange, considering the relationship between Churchill and the Rex Imp. as described in a number of places in the former's history of the Second World War. Is that scene in "Churchill" or is it in "Darkest Hour"?
Definitely in Darkest Hour. There are several scenes with the two of them in private and they did seem friendly and showed concern for each other and the country, but this one scene was quite formal. Churchill had just been elected and the King was required to summon him and ask Churchill to form the new government. It was all very proper and stuffy.
MiningmanIt was all very proper and stuffy.
Musta been too many of the wrong kinds of Poms watching. British pomp and circumstance can be almost unmatched at times. Fortunately* when the actual time comes to do the do, they get things done most of the time.
*This is a loaded word for some, the al-Fayeds and divers Argentines among them...
CNR had another steamship line, if you consider the GTW carferry across Lake Michigan, between Muskegon, MI and Milwaukee, WI. It ran until 1978. Its last ferry, the City of Milwaukee, is preserved in Manistee, MI. I toured it a few years ago. I might also have ridden it when it operated for the Ann Arbor, but I did not keep track of ships names.
Miningman Definitely in Darkest Hour. There are several scenes with the two of them in private and they did seem friendly and showed concern for each other and the country, but this one scene was quite formal. Churchill had just been elected and the King was required to summon him and ask Churchill to form the new government. It was all very proper and stuffy.
M636CAlso in the movie, Churchill is seen suggesting to Albert that the name George would be more acceptable than Albert which was seen as too German. (strange given the number of Kings named George that never learnt English).
More than usually sucky, as Victoria's Albert was one of the best of the lot ... I have often thought (as have other alternative-historian SF aficionados) that the world would have been much better had he lived longer.
Good thread.
Midland Mike-- Thanks for that reminder. How on earth did we lose these things. Well thankfully at least we still have the Great Lakes ferries Badger in the US and the Chi-Cheemaun in Ontario, both of whom have a fine railroad heritage.
Firelock-- Wow to the broadsides from the HMS Victory. I understand the real thing pushed and lifted the ship back. How the heck does anyone survive that onslaught. By the way my high school was Admiral Lord Nelson and our yearbook is The Victory. A big school, very middle and upper middle class. Which leads me to....
Penny--- We shot off a cannon as well during football games but no Minute Men, we had Redcoats and striped sailors and Admiral Lord Nelson himself with a sword and his Admiralty feathered hat. Now how about getting those two football teams together!!!! Wholly Cow! ... which brings me to Firelock again...
Firelock-- staged re-enactment with 15 tall ships out on Lake Erie, now I know anything is possible, because they did it, but I think it best we do this BEFORE Penny's High School vs. my High School football game or maybe someone will get too serious.
Overmod-- Ok I'm lost.. can you expand a bit on the Fortunately comment? I think I get the gist but only peripherally. Also what about Victoria's eldest grandson, the somewhat lunatic Kaiser Wilhelm II, without him it's quite possible there is no WWI and II. Just gotta have a bigger Navy than the Brits didn't you?
M636C-- Both you and I have to stare at Monarchy on the reverse side of our coinage every day. Maybe an unkept beard on the Duke of Sussex ( ahem, not Windsor) might pop up someday on the dime, who knows!
...and to our American cousins and dear friends don't feel left out because the O'Bushtons came close to perpetual family rule and may still yet, but the Sex Pistols came along and shook it up. So much fun.
Ok late edit--- Overmod.. it all came together, I get it.
Unless the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge take their whole families on the same Lionair flight, it isn't likely. Harry is now sixth in line...
Given the role that Harry has been given, I think the intention was to give him the title Duke of Edinburgh but nobody expected Philip to last that long. With all the awards and similar carrying the title of "Edinburgh", someone like Harry who could keep the title going (and not become King) is needed.
The names "nickel" and "dime" are not used in Australia, just "five cent" and "ten cent". The decimal currency was only introduced on 14 February 1966 and I guess it hasn't been long enough for nicknames. The shilling that preceded the ten cent was abbreviated to "bob" the two shilling coin being "two bob" but only for round numbers, two shillings and sixpence being "two and six".
The Queen's image only appears on the smallest banknote, but on all coins.
Peter
Overmod M636C Also in the movie, Churchill is seen suggesting to Albert that the name George would be more acceptable than Albert which was seen as too German. (strange given the number of Kings named George that never learnt English). More than usually sucky, as Victoria's Albert was one of the best of the lot ... I have often thought (as have other alternative-historian SF aficionados) that the world would have been much better had he lived longer.
M636C Also in the movie, Churchill is seen suggesting to Albert that the name George would be more acceptable than Albert which was seen as too German. (strange given the number of Kings named George that never learnt English).
Peter, did you also have a five shilling coin, called a "crown" and was the 2 & 6 coin called a "half crown?" And, did you also use guineas or just pounds?
Now Overmod me old son, in that fine film "Damn The Defiant" Sir Alec Guinness (as Captain Crawford) gives a command "Give her the mainsail!" so I have it on Sir Alec's authority it's a proper command.
AND Sir Alec was a Royal Navy veteran to boot!
I'm from New Jersey all right, that means I can drive anything!
Now Wayne, me lad, that fine film "Damn the Defiant" was written jointly by the guy who wrote the Quatermass Experiment and the guy who invented Klaatu barada nikto'. Neither of them having any Navy experience whatsoever (the one being the British equivalent of 4F for photophobia, and the other spending WWII in the Signal Corps making training films).
The screenplay was an adaptation of a bestselling novel from 1958, Frank Tilsley's "Mutiny". Tilsley, alas! was not a Navy man either; he was a war reporter for the RAF and wound up with what may be a suspicious rank of 'Squadron Commander' -- well, it's reminiscent of a sort of naval role, the Gilbert & Sullivan ruler of the Queen's nay-vee, but not a terribly compelling indication of intimate familiarity with the semantic nomenclature of tall ships... a survey of his works includes titles like "I'd Hate to be Dead", "The Jungle of Your Heart","The Boys of Coastal", "Pleasure Beach", and "The Lady in the Fur Coat" which would indicate to me that his research for the one novel might well be tainted by, er, Air Force terminology...
Deggesty Peter, did you also have a five shilling coin, called a "crown" and was the 2 & 6 coin called a "half crown?" And, did you also use guineas or just pounds?
I have never seen a five shilling coin. However a "50 cent" coin was introduced in 1966, made of silver and it was withdrawn and replaced by a cupro-nickel version with twelve sides in 1970, the silver version being circular with milled edges.
2/6 was always called "half a crown" but had to be made up from a Florin (2/-) and a sixpence. As a result we now have 20c coins but no quarters.
Yes, guineas were used. Tradtionally racehorses were sold with prices in guineas because prices in Guineas had some sort of 'upper class" appeal. So were expensive automobiles. For those who really don't know what Johnny and I are talking about, it was a tradition in England to quote prices of costly items in guineas where One Guinea = One Pound One Shilling = 1 and 1/20 Pounds, so 5% more than the same number in pounds.
This was extensively used in advertising of home electronics (mainly television sets) where 50 pounds was a sort of break point between cheap and expensive sets. So a TV set was advertised as 49 guineas = 51 pounds 9 shillings.
One of my happy memories is of a TV quiz show, about the time the change in the 50 cent coin was announced. This was the first night of a TV show hosted by a man with a long running and successful radio show. It had an unnecessarily complex procedure where a question was answered, then if correct, a key was drawn from a barrel which unlocked (or not) a padlock on a new Ford sedan.
Anyway, the first contestant was asked "how many sides has the new...." at which she interrupted with "twelve". Prior to this, they had opened the padlock to show that one key worked, and dropped it in the barrel. The woman reached into the barrel, pulled out a key and opened the padlock.
At this, the host stormed off throwing his program notes away. They went to an advertising break, after which he returned, saying "Ford have said they will give us a new car for tomorrow night...."
The program didn't last the season.....
When Australia converted to decimal currency they used one dollar = ten shillings = 1/2 pound. Only the copper coins were replaced since one cent =1+1/5 pennies but sixpence became 5 cents, one shilling became ten cents.
When the UK changed some years later, they kept the pound, so one new penny = 2.4 old pennies, so a shilling became five new pence and so on.
So an Australian visiting the UK had to get used to familiar coins which had half the numerical value they had at home. This was even harder shortly after the change when they still said "shilling" or "florin" rather than 5p or 10p....
OvermodKlaatu barada nikto
Good Halloween reference!
Thanks, Peter. Did high-price doctors also express their fees in guineas?
MiningmanMidland Mike-- Thanks for that reminder. How on earth did we lose these things. Well thankfully at least we still have the Great Lakes ferries Badger in the US and the Chi-Cheemaun in Ontario, both of whom have a fine railroad heritage.
I did not realize the Chi-Cheemaun had a railroad heritage. I see it belonged to Ontario Northland Marine. It seems far away from the ONR.
Deggesty Thanks, Peter. Did high-price doctors also express their fees in guineas?
Not that I have any personal experience, but almost certainly....
I had two cousins who were high priced surgeons, but fortunately never needed to use them. One was Professor of Surgery at Oxford University (in the mid 1970s).
You know, I knew there was a film out there the showed just how smoky a sea battle was in the age of sail, and here it is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik
Give it a few seconds to load. Or maybe "lock and load."
Firelock76 You know, I knew there was a film out there the showed just how smoky a sea battle was in the age of sail, and here it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik Give it a few seconds to load. Or maybe "lock and load."
Firelock-- What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing? The level of comraderie, adrenalin, fear, heroics all out in the middle of an unforgiving ocean combined with such lethal and devastating force and consequences with every action and decision is unmatched. Likely because things were so visibly unfolding at close quarters and so vulnerable.
Thinking you better have one helluva Captain.
MiningmanWhat it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing?
As with pirates ... it's because you weren't there. Likely the effect of one good broadside, with the splinters flying, would cure you of any romantic attraction to the subject whatsoever. The sort of innovation Southey (I think it was) attributed to Napoleon, putting all sorts of trained ground troops up in the rigging to sharpshoot the sailors on deck wholesale as ships closed, is another grand wholesale murder.
Modern gunnery and aircraft attack (including various 'kamikaze' tactics) is more effective at destruction, but often less horrifically maiming than the effect of grape or canister or the wooden 'shrapnel' of sea-seasoned wooden structure, repeated again and again and again until enough of the crews on one ship were out of commission to work enough guns. And the paintwork all was spatter-dashed with ... something appropriate to this season, I think.
Well I'm really not fond of deep deep water, the kind where the Kraken and Moby Dick call home. I do have a boat in the Marina at Port Dover and for some time now, but my 3 now grown up daughters look after it and use it now. ( I pay the annual Marina fees, insurance and major maintenance from far away landlocked Saskatchewan, which proves one is never as smart as they think they are). It's not a sailboat.
No way I would have made any kind of a naval military sailor in any era. Maybe Merchant Marine on the Great Lakes with hopefully a gal in every port. ...and never on Lake Superior in November.
Overmod Miningman What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing? As with pirates ... it's because you weren't there. Likely the effect of one good broadside, with the splinters flying, would cure you of any romantic attraction to the subject whatsoever. The sort of innovation Southey (I think it was) attributed to Napoleon, putting all sorts of trained ground troops up in the rigging to sharpshoot the sailors on deck wholesale as ships closed, is another grand wholesale murder. Modern gunnery and aircraft attack (including various 'kamikaze' tactics) is more effective at destruction, but often less horrifically maiming than the effect of grape or canister or the wooden 'shrapnel' of sea-seasoned wooden structure, repeated again and again and again until enough of the crews on one ship were out of commission to work enough guns. And the paintwork all was spatter-dashed with ... something appropriate to this season, I think.
Miningman What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing?
Don't forget the (lack of) personal hygiene on cramped wooden ships at sea for months at a time.
The smell below deck must have been 'powerful'.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Ah, yes; the aromas from the areas where captured enemies were kept are described in Kenneth Roberts' two novels set in the War of 1812--Captain Caution and The Lively Lady. It could also be muddy down there.
DeggestyAh, yes; the aromas from the areas where captured enemies were kept are described in Kenneth Roberts' two novels set in the War of 1812--Captain Caution and The Lively Lady.
To say nothing of the conditions to which the British subjected detainees during the early part of the American Revolutionary War, where poor olfactory sensation was far from the worst.
The difference is that dude was discussing people who by necessity were supposed to be kept both enthusiastic and healthy during their presumably stinky sojourn.
As an interesting, if somewhat disgusting aside: people who don't bathe for an extended period of time stop having really objectional personal odor after a while. We observed this firsthand at the Springhill hardware store, where once a year a tribe of 'mountain people' who made twig furniture as a family business would come in to get their nails, twine, tools, etc. They did not engage in any kind of regular active 'hygiene' but the only smell was a kind of mustiness. Were they to exercise to a sweat, or get actively drenched, I suspect this happy observation would rapidly become far less happy.
Associated with Canadian National Steamships were "Canadian National Electrics" (see about 6:30; and consider the related quiz question) and associated park, as here
https://gpsvideocanada.com/nst7-dvd-niagara-st-catharines-toronto-railway
Admittedly, the water might not have been as 'crystal-clear' as indicated, but don't you just want to jump into some of those scenes? (Although there are a couple of very determined women chowing down that might frighten small children and household pets...)
Miningman Short story http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/edu/ViewLoitLo.do;jsessionid=255E98F13865F562BCE23C52CB232FD0?method=preview&lang=EN&id=5904 Long story http://www.saskatchewanmilitarymuseum.ca/SSR/soldiers/maule/2006/cfhq005.pdf https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-lMAAOSwT-FZBmkP/s-l1600.jpg https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/1/3/1336163/adf0d5ab-23f6-483a-ab98-1ac7164117aa-A01219.jpg
Such a heroic and stirring deed! They were not designed for transatlantic crossings; compare to the size of early transatlantic ocean liners like RMS Etruria and Umbria, these beautiful cruises probably needed to convert extra space to store enough coal and food. But the world was at war, there was no room to be too picky.
North Atlantic storm is no jokes, these pics were taken from a much larger ship RMS Aquitania ( 901 ft long) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Aquitania
By the way, my favorite Ocean Liner was the RMS Lusitania, a victim of WWI....
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Jones1945By the way, my favorite Ocean Liner was the RMS Lusitania, a victim of WWI....
A Lusi fan!
Yes, CP's Empress class ships were better suited for transoceanic service:
Penny Trains... CP's Empress class ships were better suited for transoceanic service ...
But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.
Penny Trains A Lusi fan!
Yes ! I prefer the overall design of Lusitania to her sister ship Mauretania. If I was living in that era and rich enough to afford first class tickets for my whole family, I would travel on Lusi instead of much bigger but slower ship like RMS Olympic. Another ship I love was the SS Normandie; another war victim of yet another world war. The interior design was not for everyone but it was a Holy Temple of Art Deco on the sea for me.
My favorite battleship was the Nelson Class:
Overmod But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.
Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii.
Jones1945 Overmod But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up. Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii
Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii
Interesting that only recently was the speed of death at Pompeii realized; 'common knowledge" when I read about this as a child was that it involved relatively slow gas and ash suffocation, and not prompt pyroclastic flow.
For 'contemporary' speed record, I suggest Saint-Pierre on Martinique, in 1902. Would that Hamburg or Dresden have been as mercifully quick!
To Canadian National Steamships.
The illustrations below are from the five different "Lady" liners:Lady Nelson, Lady Drake, Lady Hawkins, Lady Somers and Lady Rodney.These ships were built in 1928-1929 and were all of around 8,000 grt and approx. 438 ft. long.Three of them were sunk during WW2, but the Lady Nelson and Lady Rodney survivedto continue their Caribbean service after the war until sold in the early 1950sto carry pilgrims and emigrants for the Khedivial Mail Line of Egypt.
From a 1932 Canadian National Steamships promotional brochure (see below).
There is a photo of the Lady Nelson as the Gumhuryat Misr during the 1950s on the P and O Line website of Michael Ian Byard
A little more elegant the the accommodatios on the British Columbia ferries.
I did have a comfortable cabin when I spent the night from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert four years ago, though, and the dining room provided good meals in the morning and the evening. I was unable to get a cabin for the southbound trip, had to sit up.
Todays cruise ships have pretty sterile looking motel type rooms, nothing like these. But hey, they offer wifi, drunks, stoners and weirdos galore. They just take the 'forever party' onto the boat. Civilization is dead! ... and heaven forbid if you light up a cigarette!
Perhaps river cruises and ferries are a bit more civilized.
I'll take the rattan and steamer trunks and no wifi any day. Heck I'll take a tramp steamer if there are any left.
MiningmanTodays cruise ships
Designed by a consortium comitee of Borg and Vogons.
MiningmanTodays cruise ships have pretty sterile looking motel type rooms, nothing like these. But hey, they offer wifi, drunks, stoners and weirdos galore. They just take the 'forever party' onto the boat.
But the continuous party is the POINT of the cruise. Why just ride around in a little room, going up and down, with little to look at outside, when you could be dancing, or swimming, or exercising, or eating, or eating, or eating. Much of the cruise experience is directly derived from the Catskill experience (and, later, to my father's despair, the Poconos experience) where stuff is always going. And tips are always flowing. It's a decidedly different set of definitions of 'civilized' than I think most of us have. It would be interesting in the extreme to see what would happen if Carnival arranged for and then catered more train services....
No, I wouldn't ride them. But that's not the point -- enough other people might ride them to justify operating a whole train, hoi-polloi coaches and all, for all the gray commodity destination pairs on the route.
Well Carnival already has the multimark logo so that's a start.
I'm sure the old ships in the day had plenty of activities. Shuffleboard on deck, probably a pool, tennis, badminton, ballroom dancing. Gents hiding in leather chaired smokey rooms playing poker. I see a piano in the room full of rattan and wicker so entertainment as well. I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century.
Besides wouldnt you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's oggling and harassing your girlfriend.
I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudouir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say.
Late Edit: That was not fair to Russians, changed it to 20 somethings but any group of well inebriated dudes.
Thank You.
Miningman I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century. Besides wouldn't you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's oggling and harassing your girlfriend. I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudoir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say.
I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century.
Besides wouldn't you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's oggling and harassing your girlfriend.
I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudoir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say.
I love these similes, Vince. Travel experience had changed since the function of ocean liners switched from a luxury transportation vessel to merely a cheap club on the sea. From a pillow, a door handle to the interior design of the cabin and dining room, many cruises which people could easily afford a ticket nowadays were too "Las-Vegaslized"; bad taste eyesore all over the place, from inside to outside of the ship. I wonder what Norman Bel Geddes would have said if he could foresee the future from the 1950s.
(Skip to 20m40s if you think the video is too long)
Had no idea about the Noronic. I have no real words to comment. It is like the Charles Francis Adams report of the catastrophe at Abergele.
I do recall discussion of other catastrophic ship fires where lemon-oil polish of well-seasoned wood paneling was a major factor in rapid spread. But not like this.
The picture of 5406 is interesting because it is an example of that somewhat regrettable railroad-photographer tendency to slant the board in the darkroom to make things look longer than they are. That tender is artificially enhanced to the point it almost looks like the 64T unbuilt variant... especially notable in the spacing between pedestal journals and the rear overhang.
1953 Ad. Got to like the addition of the streamlined Northern and the F units depiction.
The Noronic fire remains quite famous in Toronto. A simple linen closet and fire hoses that don't work brought down a whole industry.
Of course the rest of the ship was a tinderbox, eventually this would have happened.
I recall when they towed the hulk through the Burlington canal, a railroad/roadway lift bridge crossing over along the beach strip, for the short jaunt to the awaiting Waxman scrapyard and the blast furnaces of Stelco.
NDG FYI. ' S S Noronic. ' This definitely did not help the Steamship business. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xlMwXPVspis/VqaB_Z73WDI/AAAAAAAAMnM/MylOtSk35QM/s1600/SSNoronicfire1949-URBANTO-user-Goldie.JPG http://torontodreamsproject.blogspot.com/2010/09/worst-disaster-in-history-of-city.html
The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case.
https://jgburdette.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/collision-in-the-narrows-halifax-explosion/comment-page-2/
Quote.
These are really nice.., from Mike .. luv the bananas picture, also great article Last thread.
Some good stuff here too: https://www.cruiselinehistory.com/ss-city-of-cleveland-on-a-labor-day-cruise-in-1947/ Search "great lakes" on the main page for more articles. Site is by one of the writers from "The Love Boat".
Jones1945 NDG FYI. ' S S Noronic. ' This definitely did not help the Steamship business. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xlMwXPVspis/VqaB_Z73WDI/AAAAAAAAMnM/MylOtSk35QM/s1600/SSNoronicfire1949-URBANTO-user-Goldie.JPG http://torontodreamsproject.blogspot.com/2010/09/worst-disaster-in-history-of-city.html The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case. https://jgburdette.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/collision-in-the-narrows-halifax-explosion/comment-page-2/
From what I've read there's no buildings on the Halifax waterfront that date from before December 6th 1917. Absolutely none.
The Mont Blanc explosion's been compared to what we'd call today a "tactical nuke."
Wow. Never heard that "tactical nuke" reference before. They discovered the hard way what ammonium nitrate and fuel oil brought together is all about. That is still what we use underground for blasting, nicknamed 'Anfo' by everyone. Colour coded by country too... USA uses green beads, we use pink.
Nice boat Penny. What a beauty.
From the Noronic article " at one time there were more people asleep on boats on the Great Lakes than on any ocean in the world".
I'm sure I have seen the SS City of Cleveland at some point in Port Dover as a kid. Distinctly remember it was a big deal when the "big boat from Cleveland" visited on special occasions.
Also .. Jones 1945- Thanks for the SS Normandie clip. That is just stupendous. It reflects a whole culture and a nation. What I would give to spend 24 hours in the day. Think I would have trouble just breathing!
So we lost our magnificient ships, our Steamship lines, the look to the future of steam with all what we have been discussing, many of our stations, sleeping and dining car services to everywhere, fully functional extensive Interurban and streetcar services everywhere, the great names of our railroads and our trains, and so on, all under the banner of progress and expediency. What a load of crap!
I suppose next someone is going to tell me that Gov't mandated food guidelines have in no way contributed to obesity and diabetes epidemics and that we are all so much healthier now. People aren't dropping dead of heart attacks at 58 or 63 anymore because someone figured out that childrens aspirin will save your sorry butt.
Pennsylvania Station is gone, the indestructible Pennsylvania RailRoad is gone, the mighty New York Central is gone, ... where is the Lackawanna and the Lehigh Valley? The Minneapolis and St Louis? The Monon? The Pacific Electric? Did we suffer a North America wide nuclear attack? What hath God wrought!!!
Firelock76From what I've read there's no buildings on the Halifax waterfront that date from before December 6th 1917. Absolutely none.
The explosion happened off the north part of Halifax. Closer to downtown there are a number of older buildings along the waterfront in an area called the Historic Properties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_Properties_(Halifax)
Miningman Nice boat Penny. What a beauty. I'm sure I have seen the SS City of Cleveland at some point in Port Dover as a kid. Distinctly remember it was a big deal when the "big boat from Cleveland" visited on special occasions.
I like the length of the grand stair and the atrium of SS City of Cleveland which brought natural light deep inside the ship. Bright sunlight always makes objects look fresh and lively. If only I could still have the chance to traveling by big steamboat and steam train on the same trip.....
Miningman Also .. Jones 1945- Thanks for the SS Normandie clip. That is just stupendous. It reflects a whole culture and a nation. What I would give to spend 24 hours in the day. Think I would have trouble just breathing! So we lost our magnificent ships, our Steamship lines, the look to the future of steam with all what we have been discussing, many of our stations, sleeping and dining car services to everywhere, fully functional extensive Interurban and streetcar services everywhere, the great names of our railroads and our trains, and so on, all under the banner of progress and expediency. What a load of crap!
So we lost our magnificent ships, our Steamship lines, the look to the future of steam with all what we have been discussing, many of our stations, sleeping and dining car services to everywhere, fully functional extensive Interurban and streetcar services everywhere, the great names of our railroads and our trains, and so on, all under the banner of progress and expediency. What a load of crap!
You are very welcome, Vince. I am glad to see that more and more videos from the past being uploaded on different platforms including YouTube.
I totally agree with you that the human race missed a lot of great things in the past 100 years. If the concept of planned obsolescence is part of this so-called progress, I would rather be stuck in the 1930s forever! I love innovative ideas and everything that I think it is beautiful. But, unfortunately, for me, I am never a big friend of contemporary design and style. I am glad to see human rights were improved in some countries (Yes, only a handful of them); I can see some very amazing contemporary designs being created. But usually, only 10% (or less) of them could be my cup of tea.
Yes it's a complicated thing. People use the word cheaper everyday as in "it's cheaper this way" or "it's cheaper to produce" , "cheaper to buy" so much so it has become a normal part of everyday conversation.
Cheaper means poorly made, poorly constructed, inferior quality, not meant to last. I use the word 'less expensive' if it applies as it gives a comparison. It denotes efficiency and smart application to offer a service or product with less expense. Not cheapness.
Life had a nice pace to it. The rat race and cheapness became the order of the day. Things went too fast. We lost too much and we disposed of much what was solid, so much of the fabric of society, so much what was built and was normal and necessary. Now we have the .1%, a far smaller and shrinking middle class, whom exist to serve only the .1% at their whim. This was planned, this was marketed, this was sold to all.
The Pennsy is gone, S1 is scrapped along with 100,000 rebuilt perfectly fine, many new, steam locomotives so we were told they were "war weary", streetcar lines were tore up, Packers are no more as are so many diverse car companies, the CMSt.P&P is obliterated off the planet, competition was eliminated and we squeeze into sardine cans with people wearing their pyjamas, delays the norm, and mayhem at the terminals along with extra everything costs that are usary yet most folks defend that!, a generation has turned their back on Capitalism because it did/does nothing for them.
It's cheaper all right. Big time.
Check out these Menu's. We can imagine. Sept 9 menu lists 'grapenuts ice cream'....not sure what that is but it sounds crunchy. Does anyone still offer this?
MiningmanSept 9 menu lists 'grapenuts ice cream'....not sure what that is but it sounds crunchy.
GrapeNuts was, and I think still may be, a Post breakfast cereal. "Crunch" is kind of an understatement for its mouth feel; I'm tempted to quote the old Playboy review of Laphroaig single-malt: "it takes a verra determined laddie to get that stoof doon"...
I'd suspect 'GrapeNuts ice cream' would be like a tortoni on steroids. You'd certainly have your fiber, though.
It has been more than a few years since I ate any GrapeNuts--the cereal was, indeed, quite crunchy. There was, also, GrapeNuts Flakes--perhaps more enjoyable if your teeth were not up to crunching GrapeNuts. However, as I remember, the Flakes did not have the same ingredients as the Nuts had.
So you think the Grapenut ice cream is simply the Post cereal added to ice cream? Maybe so, but would it not be Grape Nuts in italics and perhaps identified as Post Grape Nuts? I dunno, maybe not.
Yes Post Grape Nuts is still available from time to time as is the Grape Nuts Flakes. They have a small dedicated following and I'm sure most of us have tried it at least once. Even my dog gives up after a while and that's with milk!
I'm trying to imagine it in ice cream. Maybe just a wee bit of the Grape Nuts here and there or sprinkled on the top.
Now I got to try it out. Sprinkle on top of vanilla, yes? Or no, mix it in?
https://www.eater.com/2018/9/24/17887660/grape-nuts-cereal-ice-cream-flavor-history-explainer-recipe
My favorite cereal hasn't been made in years:
Never tried mixing it with ice cream. Never had pregnancy cravings either which is how many of these improbable combinations get started!
Midland Mike, thanks for that Halifax link! I couldn't be happier to be wrong!
Miningman, and other who may be unfamiliar with the term, "tactical nuke" is what us military guys, present and former, call low-yield (low kiloton or less than a kiloton) nuclear weapons made for battlefield use. Capable of being delivered by aircraft or in some cases by artillery their postulated use would have been to stop a Soviet "blitz" into Western Europe if all else failed.
Goes without saying they've never been used anywhere by anyone. And even using them might have opened a "Pandora's Box" of horror no-one might have imagined.
And it's a safe bet any country with a nuclear capability has them.
Thanks Penny and Firelock
Mike just sent me this!
Firelock76low-yield (low kiloton or less than a kiloton) nuclear weapons made for battlefield use
One step below artillery fired weapons like the 15kt (about the same yield as the little boy) Upshot-Knothole test Grable of 1953:
Yep, that's "Atomic Annie" all right, a 280mm (11 inch) bore artillery piece. Twenty like it were produced. Later developments of nuclear artillery shells for eight inch and 155mm (6 inch) caliber guns made a big, unwieldy unit like "Annie" obsolete.
I think the trade agreement necessitating construction of the Lady Ships ultimately causes the existence of the brand name "Canadian National Steamships."
Thanks to Mike for this great information.
Fascinating.
Doesn anyone use that classy phrase "The year of our Lord..." anymore, or is it just politically incorrect to do so?
Firelock-- Perhaps we have shifted more suitably to phrases like 'Year of the Rat' , or ' Year of the Monkey'. Certainly describes things better.
Yes, all the formal this and that in those documents and all the very distinguished very important people listed and it's really all about bananas!
Outside of the listed requirement for "Accomadations for 100 First Class passengers ( see above mentioned very important people ) the only thing they specifically denote is bananas.
Cue Harry Chapin.
Remember that recent Photo of the Day with the 2 CB&Q steam locomotives thundering by, rods blurred, white smoke and steam billowing far into the atmosphere, heck you could feel the shaking just by looking at the picture and it's all about bananas.
Bananas rule! Who knew?
MiningmanCue Harry Chapin.
That's not funny!
MiningmanPerhaps we have shifted more suitably to phrases like 'Year of the Rat' , or ' Year of the Monkey'. Certainly describes things better.
We don't have a creature to describe what kind of year this one has been!
One of my pet peeves is people starting to say "accross" the world. A lot of people died to prove that the world is R O U N D!
I adored Harry Chapin. Saw his performance at the O'keefe Centre in Toronto just days before his untimely death. No disrespect intended whatsoever.
Even drove down the 30,000 pounds of bananas hill into Scanton, Pa. just to do it. Of course Scranton is a Mecca for us steamfans and that was part of it.
Dark days of WWII Jan. 1942 Fate of a Lady Ship
"Operation Drumbeat" or, "Paukenslag", right after the opening of hostilities between the United States and Nazi Germany. U-Boot men called it "The Second Happy Time", the US Navy was powerless to stop the U-Boot onslaught, there was almost nothing in the way of Navy assets on the East Coast.
It was so bad that Navy blimp crews had to raid all the hardware and sporting goods stores in the area of the Lakehurst NJ Naval Air Station for small arms, especially rifles.
Imagine a Navy blimp making a pass over a U-Boot with the aircrew banging away with Winchesters like a Hollywood western! It happened.
Needless to say the situation didn't last, but while it did a lot of ships and men were lost.
Yes and I believe there was an extensive coverup and news suppression of the events at that time. The allied loss of ships and men was staggering. That's were the loose lips sink ships campaign started.
MiningmanYes and I believe there was an extensive coverup and news suppression of the events at that time.
It didn't work. Many of the sinkings were clearly visible to large numbers of people on the shore. Very obvious that not only was our coastal shipping, particular oil shipping, an eay target but that there was little we could do about it ... not only in the short run but indefinitely, at that time.
One has only to look at the history of oil trains in these years to understand just what a spectacular amount of workaround was necessary ... just to avoid something that perhaps should have been easily foreseen, resulting from little more than expedience on our part.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the 'chosen' answer to the I'll Never Go Hungry Again repercussions turned out to be pipeline construction (with all the associated dismal lags and delays). And who am I to say this was a wrong answer... ?
Miningman Dark days of WWII Jan. 1942 Fate of a Lady Ship
The Canadian steam passenger ship Lady Hawkins was sunk by a U-66 about 260 nautical miles from the coast of the States. Another Canadian steam merchant Cornwallis was sunk by U-1230 a lot closer to the coast of US in 1944. I believe the War Department was really triggered. Cruising on a civilian ship in Atlantic or the Far East during WWII was no other than a suicide mission. Even a battleship like The HMS Prince of Wales didn't have a chance.
Homo sapiens never failed to kill each other; generation after generation, just like all the creatures you can find in the Amazon jungle; but at least no creatures would know how to nuke their own planet.
General Norman Schwartzkopf remembered that as a boy on the Jersey shore in 1942 he could see the oil tankers burning offshore from the U-Boot attacks.
And I haven't thought about this in years, but as a kid on the Jersey beaches in the 1960's occasionally I'd encounter black sticky bands in the beach sand close to the waters edge. It wasn't until years later I realized they were the oil residue from ships sunk by U-Boots 25 years earlier.
It's been said that the two most hated vessels in maritime history are the Viking longship and the German U-Boot. Nothing else comes close.
Firelock76 ... occasionally I'd encounter black sticky bands in the beach sand close to the waters edge. It wasn't until years later I realized they were the oil residue from ships sunk by U-Boots 25 years earlier.
Sadly, I never tumbled to this until you mentioned it just now.
I thought they were road tar or some other sort of dumped thing like eroded asphalt. Kids can be naive when brought up outside of war.
Jones1945-- One takeaway is that we have managed to go almost 75 years without nuking the planet. It's getting increasingly difficult to keep the Genie in the bottle though. One nutbar off the rails fanatic group is all it takes. The question is 'is it inevitable?'
Getting back to 1942 or any year over the oceans during wartime, well let me say how terrifying it would be out there being so vulnerable and having your family along as well. Those ships went down real fast too, sometimes a matter of minutes. Can you imagine being a worker in the engine room. The oil tankers set ablaze with the water itself on fire.
The world is run by Devils and demons who feed on this terror and death, no doubt about it.
How bad was it in 1942? I remember reading years back about an American Merchant Marine sailor who made one convoy trip that year, one only.
When his ship got back to New York he walked off and joined the US Army. He figured it was safer!
Regarding Censorship 1942
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.156766/page/n183
1942... This one's for Firelock
Explanation in the link
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usmcarchives/9453909752
Miningman Jones1945-- One takeaway is that we have managed to go almost 75 years without nuking the planet. It's getting increasingly difficult to keep the Genie in the bottle though. One nutbar off the rails fanatic group is all it takes. The question is 'is it inevitable?' Getting back to 1942 or any year over the oceans during wartime, well let me say how terrifying it would be out there being so vulnerable and having your family along as well. Those ships went down real fast too, sometimes a matter of minutes. Can you imagine being a worker in the engine room. The oil tankers set ablaze with the water itself on fire. The world is run by Devils and demons who feed on this terror and death, no doubt about it.
I actually feel much better after reading your reply, Miningman. It is inevitable if the whole game is being manipulated by some sort of aloof, evil and overwhelming power. I am glad to know I am not the only one here believe this.
Peace is never a normalcy; unfortunately, it actually contrary to humanity. I tried to deny this thought when I was much younger, but the history of human civilization, which was written with blood and tears, is an undeniable fact. Just imagine how many innocent people were tortured in all kinds of war during the past 4000 years. So I accepted the cruel reality, tried my best to live a positive life.
U-boat and torpedo-carrying aircraft of the Axis were some most "demonic" killing machines ever made in human history since they were used to destroy civilian ships. I still remember the story happened on the RMS Lusitania during WWI; when the ship was sinking, people were drowned alive when trapped inside the elevator. But compared to the sinking of Soviet's Armenia and HMT Lancastria in WWII, these cases were much more horrifying.
Well thanks for that shot of Sergeant Jiggs, Miningman!
And "Semper Fi" and "Happy Birthday" to any Marines out there.
Remember the words of President Ronald Reagan, "Some people go through life wondering if they've made a difference. Marines don't have that problem."
I guess we all did and do, in one way or another. Maybe in ways we'll never know.
Firelock-- I understand it's the Marines 243rd birthday. A necessary force with an outstanding history.
Jones1945-- Thank you for the kind words. It is beyond the scope of this Forum to go down these paths but let me just say there are good people out there and they know. Perhaps at some point these dark forces will be eliminated completely, maybe even time erased and all things restored. You just might be able to see and touch the S1, Q's and T1's. Now that's good!
Interesting how the British government tried to deny the Lancastria tragedy but the good folk persisted and it and its victims have been honoured. The Soviet Armenia was clearly marked as a hospital ship. In both cases the Captains delayed departure significantly and sealed their fates and by doing so created a different history. Probably > 10,000 people combined perished. Denied a life and timeline of their own, who knows what could have been.
Of course the Allies sunk 2 large overcrowded Nazi evacuation ships, probably more smaller ones, in 1945, a lot of civilians, same thing. Total War!
Jones1945being manipulated by some sort of aloof, evil and overwhelming power
Keep your family close, eyes and ears open.
Miningman - You are right. Just as we heard a lot of heroic stories during the WWII which shown the beautiful side of human nature. And I am really grateful that I met a lots of sincere and helpful forum members here. Civilian, local folks are always nice and helpful, but the root of many problems are always created from the people with power.
Penny Trains - Thanks for the nice quote! I am psychologically ready to see some drones hijacked by A.I, carrying some mini nukes outside my windows.
John Ford speaks through John Wayne, and truer words were never spoken...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCCCwkcBOOw
And that's a gorgeous poster Mr. Jones! "Antiques Roadshow" gorgeous!
Just back from a 3 day annual Conference in Saskatoon put on by Sask. Geo. Society highlighting exploration activity in Saskatchewan. Very nice, very fancy, yada, yada, yada. We ,( my 3 senior students and self) stayed at the historic old CNR Hotel Bessborough.
Now here's the thing.. they call Saskatoon the 'Paris of the North' ( all streets are tree lined with magnificient elms and lights lights lights and art art art everywhere)...so then is Paris the Saskatoon of Europe, or France?
Then this arrives:
In Paris, the Saskatoon of France, CNR owned Hotel Scribe.
....more fun stuff........ there are red lions on the brass elevator doors. Why?, I dunno, but it sure looks regal.
Realized it ended up being a selfie!
CNR items in display case at the Hotel
......and you could buy this at the show, parked right outside the front doors of the Bessborough, a new exploration tool.
WOW! I don't know what I like more, those neat old CNR artifacts or that street rod for the New Millenium!
Wonder what kind of gas milage it gets?
It's a Sherp. Making exploration fun again. Beats a portage with a gazillion bugs and heavy packs.
I'll bet! As we used to say in the Corps, "Don't walk when you can ride!"
4 cylinder Diesel... Floats and operates over and on water....Russian! Built in St. Petersburg. Hauls 5,000 lbs.
Russian? Now that's interesting, but maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
It wouldn't win a beauty contest, but then the Russian philosophy is typically "It doesn't have to look good, it just has to work!"
Kind of like the T-34 tank, the AK-47, and the Moisin-Nagant rifle.
There was a manufacturer from Australia there as well. They make a new high tech very innovative core box for diamond drill core... not as exciting as the Russian Sherpa but it was to me. They told me they tried to come last year but needed a work visa to come into the show and were stopped at the border. I said "whaaat"... what happened to the Commonwealth? and he raised his hands and said "poof, gone". They sent me 5 boxes for my classroom and several boxes of Tim-Tams. Super nice people.
Australia, Australia, we luv ya!
More on the Hotel Scribe. It turns out that during the Nazi Occupation of France the Hotel Scribes manager collected a very handsome rental fee from the Gestapo, which made it one of their headquarters, and did so without revealing the Hotels ownership as being Canadian National Railways. Apparently he invested the rental monies and made quite a tidy sum for the CNR. How weird is that? Strange things happen in war.
https://books.google.com/books?id=9kGMs4hokcgC&pg=PA65&dq=%22the+transmission+centre+was+the+hotel+scribe%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7ksCA1YzfAhWMm1kKHWRKD80Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=%22the%20transmission%20centre%20was%20the%20hotel%20scribe%22&f=false
https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Way-Chronicle-War-Pariss-ebook/dp/B01E5WU3OQ?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0#reader_B01E5WU3OQ
CNR President Thornton purchases the Hotel Scribe for $75M and sets a new direction fir the CNR
Miningman There was a manufacturer from Australia there as well. They make a new high tech very innovative core box for diamond drill core... not as exciting as the Russian Sherpa but it was to me. They told me they tried to come last year but needed a work visa to come into the show and were stopped at the border. I said "whaaat"... what happened to the Commonwealth? and he raised his hands and said "poof, gone". They sent me 5 boxes for my classroom and several boxes of Tim-Tams. Super nice people. Australia, Australia, we luv ya!
Should you explain Tim Tams?
Mining is very important in Australia.
As in Canada it is often in remote areas but hot more often than cold.
M636C-- Yes you are right. Tim Tams are delicious chocolate biscuit cookies. Fairy large for a cookie, they are thick and layered, almost a chocolate bar.
Thanks Australia for Tim-Tams! Sometimes life is kind.
The Commonwealth, "Poof! Gone!"? What happened? Did 9/11/2001 have something to do with it?
One could write a book on that subject Firelock.
Here are some short answers:
The postwar Commonwealth was given a fresh mission by Queen Elizabeth in her Christmas Day 1953 broadcast, where she envisioned the Commonwealth as "an entirely new conception – built on the highest qualities of the Spirit of Man: friendship, loyalty, and the desire for freedom and peace."[21] Hoped for success was reinforced by such achievements as climbing Mount Everest in 1953, breaking the four minute mile in 1954, and in 1966 a solo circumnavigation of the globe.[22]However, the humiliation of the Suez Crisis of 1956 badly hurt morale of Britain and the Commonwealth as a whole. More broadly, there was the loss of a central role of the British Empire: the defence of the Empire. That role was no longer militarily or financially feasible, as Britain's withdrawal from Greece in 1947 had painfully demonstrated. Britain itself was now just one part of the NATOmilitary alliance in which the Commonwealth had no role apart from Canada. The ANZUS treaty of 1955 linked Australia, New Zealand, and the United States in a defensive alliance, with Britain and the Commonwealth left out. The second major function of the Empire made London the financial centre of the system. After the Second World War, the British treasury was so weak that it could not operate independently of the United States. The loss of defence and financial roles, furthermore, undermined Joseph Chamberlain's early 20th century vision of a world empire that could combine Imperial preference, mutual defence, and social growth arm. Furthermore, Britain's cosmopolitan role in world affairs became increasingly limited, especially with the losses of India and Singapore.[23] While British elites at first hoped the Commonwealth would preserve and project British influence, they gradually lost their enthusiasm, argues Krishnan Srinivasan. Early enthusiasm waned as British policies came under fire in Commonwealth meetings.
In March 2015, the Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organisation proposed that the national governments of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and Canada — the four Commonwealth countries with a white, Anglo-Saxon majority — should advocate for freedom of movement between citizens of their countries, similar to the current arrangement existing between Australia and New Zealand through the Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement.[115] In May 2016, Australian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom Alexander Downer expressed support for "freer movement" between Australia and the United Kingdom, stating: "Over time we would like to continue to talk to the British government about arrangements we could make to liberalise movement between Australia and the UK, if not have completely free movement...".[
I guess that part remained as a proposal.
The real only connection I witness any longer are the 'Commonwealth Games'.
You know the current 53? members, if they could get some of the old biggies on board like India, Saudi Arabia and Hong Kong back on board and form a true free trade zone that would make for one powerful economic entity.
But....you know, Money and Politics, not gonna happen.
I cannot say that I am a Globalist by any stretch but I am embarrassed and humiliated that an Australian manufacturer of core boxes for the Mining Industry needs a work visa and was prevented from entering the country with his wares. They made it this year though, after applying for the work visa.
While many were wrestling with log in problems and locked out of the threads temporarily I was among the lucky few who could post. During this time I posted about the CNR Hotel Bessborough in Saskatoon, where I was attending a Geological Society Conference. Anywho, I took a picture of the fabulous brass elevator doors and was perplexed about the Red Lions emplaced on the very centre of the doors. Posted a picture.
So here is what I uncovered.
The lion is a common charge in heraldry. It traditionally symbolises courage, nobility, royalty, strength, stateliness and valour, because historically it has been regarded as the "king of beasts".[1] Lion refers also to a Judeo-Christiansymbolism. The Lion of Judah stands in the coat of arms of Jerusalem. Similar looking lion can be found e.g. in the coat of arms of the Swedish royal House of Bjelbo, from there in turn derived into the coat of arms of Finland, formerly belonging to Sweden, and many others examples for similar historical reasons
Further reading explains the lions on the doors as being ' lions rampart'. There a quite a number of poses, each with its own name and meaning. Such is life and society.
I pointed out that Saskatoon is referred to as ' The Paris of the North' so then it was pointed out, and asked of me, " then is Paris the Saskatoon of France?".
That lead to the Hotel Scribe in Paris, purchased by the CNR and the Big Hank thread ( Sir Henry Thornton) as he did the purchasing!
Lions Rampart indeed!
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