Û
More faces for front end consideration
It is a little known fact that Gilles Gratton became a locomotive later in life:
https://i.redd.it/p3zy7h6oj2oz.jpg
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Goalies didn't wear masks in Gordies prime days.
FYI in order 1) Gerry Cheevers, Boston Bruins 1977...those are all the locations of his actual scars over the years.
2) Gary Bromley, Vancouver Canucks 1981
3) Gilles Gratton, New York Rangers 1971
Don't shoot, I'm an NHL Goalie!!!
You see what I mean about painted Diesels and Goalie Masks.
Firelock76 Jeez! What would Gordie Howe say?
Jeez! What would Gordie Howe say?
Probably nothing, he would simply rush up the ice and score on them.
After all, actions are far louder than words!
Well that's it. If I saw three guys coming at me looking like that I'd just have to shoot 'em!
And then bayonet 'em just to make sure!
If it had a "GG" classification the wheel arrangement of a GG2 would have been exactly the same as a GG1.
It worked like this, the PRR classified a 4-6-0 wheel arrangement as a "Type G," so since this particular electric was essentially two 4-6-0's back to back it was classified GG1. Hence a GG2 would have still had a 4-6-0/0-6-4 wheel set-up.
As an aside, that hockey goalie with the skull mask is creepy!
If the SS ever fielded a hockey team I suppose their goalies would have looked just like that! Probably would have had a pair of MG-42's backing him up as well!
Oh, and that plain, non-striped, all Tuscan Red Pennsy E-unit? The late Don Ball called it "The Rustoleum Special!"
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
SD70Dude And while the PA is often listed as having superior looks I don't think this paint scheme quite does them justice: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/645935/
And while the PA is often listed as having superior looks I don't think this paint scheme quite does them justice:
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/645935/
From SD70Dude
And now for a "nose" that only a mother could love:
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/485173/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/524846/
These photographs show one of the problems of the original Krauss Maffei units, and one of the reasons for a change to a hood design on the later SP units:
In the first photo, 4002 is seem more or less as built while the trailing unit is fitted with external ducts to draw the engine intake air from lower down in tunnels to avoid overheating. This is similar to the modifications to EMD units, although they involved radiator cooling air rather than engine intake air. The second shows a (presumably) later photo of 4002 where additional air intake griles have been installed near floor level (with internal ducts replacing the ugly external ducts).
I've never disliked the appearance of these units. Recalling that they had to meet the European loading gauge, in order to carry out trials on the Semmering Pass in Austria. I would probably buy one of the Rivarrossi models if I come across one....
But the move from around 2400HP to 3600HP in US domestic locomotives and improvements in wheelslip control were at least partly due to the performance of these units. A number of similar units of greater power than these were built for use in China, and had relatively long service lives there.
Peter
This one has the E-unit individuality that was lost later on. It's an excellent look for a streamliner.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Firelock states-- " 3) Those Krauss-Maffei units are ugly all right, but it's a classic example of "Form following function." Apparantly K-M didn't care what it looked like as long as it worked."
Except they didn't work, or should I say work out very well. More junk.
Jones 1945 states-- " if Southern Pacific wanted something powerful in terms of horsepower, they could consider building an oil burning PRR Q2 4-4-6-4 with improved mechanical design and cutting edge stuff of the 1960's, 8000hp/18 wheels! "
Well now wouldn't that have set the Railroad world on its ears. Who the heck could build it? Baldwin is rubble, Lima and Alco unable. Many important appliances made by outside suppliers are defunct and gone. Overseas maybe. Perhaps Alco/MLW up in Montreal if it was early enough in the 60's.
They even have a SP look to them. Russel was maverick enough, open minded, liked steam, and SP certainly had the money. They were pronounced as the new Standard of Railroading.
Hold the presses, that All-Diesel issue is cancelled. Then of course the Rio Grande has to give them a go. Good stuff.
Firelock76A couple of things... 1) Know what those tough, no-nonsense trains crews on the Burlington called Aeolus? "Big Alice," after "Big Alice, the Goon" in the Popeye comic strip! http://popeye.wikia.com/wiki/Alice_the_Goon 2) As far as diesel paint schemes are concerned, I'm amazed at how well the better-designed ones have stood up. Look at how well the diesels in the Norfolk-Southern "Heritage Fleet" look in those classic paint jobs. Those guys in the GM design shop really knew their business! 3) Those Krauss-Maffei units are ugly all right, but it's a classic example of "Form following function." Apparantly K-M didn't care what it looked like as long as it worked. 4) I looked at the straw poll last night and it looks like pre-war slant nose and post-war bulldog nose are tied. Lady Firestorm was looking over my shoulder and is MOST displeased! The pre-war Art Deco inspired slant nose better come out on top or there's going to be hell to pay! AND it looks like there's only three votes cast in each category! You people better get busy...
1) Know what those tough, no-nonsense trains crews on the Burlington called Aeolus? "Big Alice," after "Big Alice, the Goon" in the Popeye comic strip!
http://popeye.wikia.com/wiki/Alice_the_Goon
2) As far as diesel paint schemes are concerned, I'm amazed at how well the better-designed ones have stood up. Look at how well the diesels in the Norfolk-Southern "Heritage Fleet" look in those classic paint jobs. Those guys in the GM design shop really knew their business!
3) Those Krauss-Maffei units are ugly all right, but it's a classic example of "Form following function." Apparantly K-M didn't care what it looked like as long as it worked.
4) I looked at the straw poll last night and it looks like pre-war slant nose and post-war bulldog nose are tied. Lady Firestorm was looking over my shoulder and is MOST displeased! The pre-war Art Deco inspired slant nose better come out on top or there's going to be hell to pay!
AND it looks like there's only three votes cast in each category! You people better get busy...
1) I consider Alice, the Goon a metaphor of Alien specie living around with human in a fantasy world, so this nick name did fit the looks of the Aeolus which really looked like something made by Aliens. I heard they had another nickname “The Tin Can” since the streamlined shrouding next to the firebox was designed to be able to lift up for cleaning of ashes, but these plates generated annoying loud noises when the Aeolus running at high speed. The Aeolus looked great at side view, I especially love the square and deep windows of the Cab, but overall it was not something really outstanding design except her stainless-steel casting. Their bass model in good condition is very rare.
Miningman Jones 1945--Milwaukee Erie Builds certainly did capture the imagination. Too bad they lasted about 28 minutes. Early fish heads on their way to the blast furnace in a gondola, Loewy styling and all. They symbolize to me the Olympian in total decline, the bankruptcy of the Milwaukee and it's ugly horrible embarrassing end. The Milwaukee 4-8-4's put them to shame in every way, including looks and appearance, certainly performance. See Above ^
Jones 1945--Milwaukee Erie Builds certainly did capture the imagination. Too bad they lasted about 28 minutes. Early fish heads on their way to the blast furnace in a gondola, Loewy styling and all. They symbolize to me the Olympian in total decline, the bankruptcy of the Milwaukee and it's ugly horrible embarrassing end.
The Milwaukee 4-8-4's put them to shame in every way, including looks and appearance, certainly performance.
See Above ^
The streamlined pilot was such a great idea, it made MILW and CB&Q's 4-8-4s front end looked much longer and classy. I don't know who inspired who but we know postwar PRR's K4s had a similar design on their pilot but of course I heard some railfans dislike them. No designer can please everyone.
MILW's demise would be the next thing I am gonna study in-depth, there are not many things left that I want to know about Pennsy tbh, except the Triplex of Raymond Loewy and the average monthly mileage of S1 after 1942, probably never could be found......
Oh yeah Miningman, Columbus Day is still celebrated here in the US, and in a number of South American countries too from what I understand.
New York City still holds the Columbus Day parade, although a few years back the PC crowd tried to get it abolished. That effort didn't last too long, either they realized they were looking ridiculous or someone "connected" had a few words with them.
Well at least someone is awake and posting on the Classic Forum, so thanks to Firelock for kicking things off.
My vote is in the gondola in the preceding post photo. Perhaps this is not in the spirit of things but I'm not voting for any Diesel. I'm the guy protesting across the street with the sign 'Stop The Vote', 'Who Cares', Mikado Killers Shame, and 'Diesels Suck And Stink'.
Thanksgiving weekend for us Canukleheads, and I understand Columbus Day for Americans.....do the Italians still hold a parade or has it been intimidated and bullied into the caves? Hope the Columbus statue is still there.
A couple of things...
Something about streaky rust stains and Jade Green.. they were always seen together.
The California Golden Seals were original 6 expansion teams. They even had gold coloured skates in their first year! They then became the Oakland Seals. Here's a good trivial pursuit question-- for a short period of time they were the Bay Area Seals! Nobody remembers that. The franchise never made a nickel, failed, and moved, became the Cleveland Barons which failed faster than you can say I put a smoke unit in my Aeolus.
I don't think any team in any league could beat the Vancouver Canucks for just awful awful uniforms. Long pants!.. remember that!, and the dizzying multi coloured stripe thing. Is it something about being on the West coast? Hey lets all live on a major unstable fault on the ring of fire.
Substitute Milwaukee FM Erie Built....fish heads!
Miningman The warbonnet scheme just doesn't work on the few E units Sante Fe had. It's too long, it runs out of wow factor...or something. It's Friday night of a long weekend and I've had a very stressful week and can't think. I have both the Bulington E5 and Aeolus Hudson in N scale ( I added a smoke unit to the Aeolus.. just be careful how you say that) and always display them side by each as the Newfoundlanders say.
The warbonnet scheme just doesn't work on the few E units Sante Fe had. It's too long, it runs out of wow factor...or something. It's Friday night of a long weekend and I've had a very stressful week and can't think.
I have both the Bulington E5 and Aeolus Hudson in N scale ( I added a smoke unit to the Aeolus.. just be careful how you say that) and always display them side by each as the Newfoundlanders say.
I guess ATSF considered the warbonnet scheme, a very successful design as a cooperative image, a publicity tool (like a business card of ATSF) so that they keep using it for so such a long time, I am not a huge fan of it but I do appreciate that they keep the appearance of the fleet looked consistence and using streamlined skirted car until late-60s Their taste on passenger cars were also admirable.
One of the reason I love Pennsy more than other railroads is the color of their engines, the DGLE and the lettering was such a classy thing. Raymond Loewy's improvement on GG1, the cat-whisker stripes and the color of F.O.M was so attractive to me and some of my family members as well. Even the post war 3 strips passenger car still looked decent and "Traditional", it is hard for me to not had a crush on Pennsy. Speaking of pennsy, there is one nose design worth mention:
(source: Ebay)
If these Baldwin-made Diesel units were not problematic, *PLUS Penny 100% adapted Loewy's color scheme of it (light color roof, new strips design, square headlights), they were the most beautiful diesel serving the East-West market in 1950s. Bad luck of both Pennsy and Baldwin, if things were not scripted.
What's wrong with this:
It could have been worse:
I think the Golden Seals were inspired by this:
Pretty far from lightning stripes eh?
How far they fall...
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/668211/
Good thing the Vancouver Canucks didn't see that blue paint scheme on the Rio Grande PA because they would have adopted it to add to their other numerous disasters. Actually the Pittsburgh Penguins had something like that for a while.
SD70Dude Don't mean to distract from the steam discussion, but I happened upon these while looking for something else, a pretty good side by side comparison of the two EMD nose styles: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/668211/
Don't mean to distract from the steam discussion, but I happened upon these while looking for something else, a pretty good side by side comparison of the two EMD nose styles:
FM Erie-Built, another masterpiece of front end design (by who?), that eyes catching stainless steel plate around the headlight matched the shape of the front end perfectly and reminded passengers the wings on the Class A and F7s, it also made the cumbersome A unit looked powerful, fast and sharp.
That's actually the only colour photo I've ever found of the Rio Grande PA's in that scheme. It didn't last long, for obvious reasons.
Can't say I've ever heard of anyone "ralffing" over a warbonnet before. Well, maybe those experimental yellow or bluebonnets, but not the classic one!
This would look pretty good sitting next to the E5:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/locomotive/images/4/4b/Cbq4001Aeolus-2.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20161018022331
Might as well admire NHL hockey goalie masks. Santa Fe E8 in warbonnet just does not work. The tire treads down the front nose... bleech! Ralff club, el puke-o. It is most difficult for me to cut up my much loved Rock Island but of the 43,806 paint schemes they used this one was one of the best. The E5 is 100% steam era produced and influenced, an Art Deco attempt by a Diesel to looks its best by pretending to be steam or at least look somewhat ok next to it. So we are admiring paint and camouflage.
D&RGW PA is ugl-A beyond the beyond. Looks like a horrendously failed sports team uniform.
Getting excited about painted silver couplers... we'll knock yourself out.
More, just look at that silver glow! Can't paint drawbars like that anymore!
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/423836/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/469195/
What's wrong with the tender...the smooth cylindrical sides match the boiler contour quite nicely. Looks great.
Miningman Thanks for all that Jones1945. The streamlined Northerns highballed past our station in Burlington, Ontario frequently. While many trains stopped these felllas never did. Folks milling about on the platforms paralleling the inside tracks waiting for their train would be in for a real treat or freightening shock when the 6400's roared by all raw power, always on the outside tracks, a very impressive sight. My first encounter with them was this way and I was held captive by the moment, its such a vivid memory. You know, I can't help but think that the railroads really knew what they doing back then. It was important and permanent. It was for all of us, it was service that could be counted on, all the time. It all worked so well, with great good people. We lost too much too quickly. It's just not like that any more. The streamlined Northerns would take your breath away and capture your imagination. A person was frozen in the moment.
Thanks for all that Jones1945.
The streamlined Northerns highballed past our station in Burlington, Ontario frequently. While many trains stopped these felllas never did. Folks milling about on the platforms paralleling the inside tracks waiting for their train would be in for a real treat or freightening shock when the 6400's roared by all raw power, always on the outside tracks, a very impressive sight.
My first encounter with them was this way and I was held captive by the moment, its such a vivid memory.
You know, I can't help but think that the railroads really knew what they doing back then. It was important and permanent. It was for all of us, it was service that could be counted on, all the time. It all worked so well, with great good people. We lost too much too quickly. It's just not like that any more.
The streamlined Northerns would take your breath away and capture your imagination. A person was frozen in the moment.
Don't mention it Miningman! I understand that the feeling when a railfan encounter his favorite big steam running in front of him, it can be almost as powerful and breathtaking as meeting ones first love! I believe you remember what Raymond Lowey shared about his story when he saw his works running at speed in person first time. The vibration , the heat and the energy, the sound and "sweet-smelling", passengers’ excited reactions made it an unforgeable moment to many railfan like you and me. Until nowadays, I still can't find any other type of railroad motive power have the same level of charms as steam locomotives!
CNR Class U-4-a is one of my favorites 4-8-4s, I love them since I found pics of them in books and stamps when I was a child. The design of U-4-a included wind tunnel testing to looking for ways to improve smoke clearance around the locomotive cabs of steam trains, instead of making changes to their existing "Confederations" Class’s designs and it proofed that CNR's semi-streamlining approach on their Class U-4-a were working fine. (Did PRR take notes?)
I suspect that CNR Class U-4-a inspired PRR about the design of Q1 #6130 Duplex’s since earlier 4-8-4 of CNR like U-2-d and U-2-h with smaller diameter drivers or even U-4-a itself were seen hauling freight trains, coincidently Q1 and U-4-a were both semi-streamlined, their diameter of drivers were also 77 inches. Please note that streamlining a freight engine was never a tradition of PRR, before or after Q1, although people could argue that Q2 were also semi-streamlined with their "T1-style boiler casting”.
M636CBut 6401 had no Royal Insignia, and was still lettered CN so is most likely to be green and black. What is hard to tell is exactly which areas were green and which black. I think CPR had a standard Hudson on its pilot train, to take over if the the blue one failed (which it didn't). I am amazed at the collection of illustrations Jones 1945 has found, but none of them indicate 6400 in Royal Train colours in a real colour photo.
I am amazed at the collection of illustrations Jones 1945 has found, but none of them indicate 6400 in Royal Train colours in a real colour photo.
lol, I thought I found the pic you wants, Peter! This case reminds me of people were discussing about PRR's DGLE in different era on different trains or the color of PRR#3768 when it was pained in "bronze" shortly which had no photo avalible for reference.
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