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Remembering the Third Avenue Elevated

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 8, 2023 4:04 AM

Henry Raudenbush sent this postcard for distribution. In addition to answering some Qquestions regarding pre-1936 arangement of the New York and Halem line, a car leaving The Bowery into South Fourth Avernue, and Third Avenue Railways, a car already ln The Bowery on its outer south-bound track entering the four trsck layour (see the Third Avenue Homemade Lightweight thread), the picture is interesting for showing the completion of the third-track construction, installed south of this point, but not yet connected through the Ninth Street "Hump" station upper (express) level:

   

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 1, 2023 2:01 AM

Manhattan Elevated Forneys in Iowa! 

From Bill Wall, fellow Branford Elec. Ry. Assn. (shoreline trolley.org) member:

The two Forneys sold in 1930 to Bion J. Arnold to scrap the Elgin and Belvedere interurban line, which he did over a period of several years.  Take a look at the makeshift platforms that he added over the coal bunker on the two locomotives.   This was done to have a working space to remove the overhead wire on the line.

 

Think about it -  a Forney line car!

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 13, 2022 9:34 AM

deleted

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 13, 2022 9:21 AM

If you wish me to see the photo you are talking about, and I assume others may wish to see it, by all mans do post it here, since it is even more impotant to the Elevated's history than TARS-TATS history.

I have not seen it on the Forum.  Could my server again  be blocking messages  from you again?  Not in my inbox.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Thursday, October 13, 2022 3:07 AM

Dave -

I never meant at all for you to post this photo here or on the Trolley thread. Nor to do ANY editing to it -- as I instructed you on a thread here a while ago re: photos I submit. 

It was sent by email to you TO ONLY show you the exact location of the actual Yorkville Clock. And to be compared with the present day (color photo) of the restored functioning Yorkville Clock I sent you. Allman did a nice job additng the extra BALL at top in above photo - but THAT was not the point or focus of the photo itself being email-sent by me to you!! Also, the 3 balls were EQUAL size -- the added top ball as added is shown larger than the 2 lower balls ! And not round like the two lower balls are!

This is a CROPPED PHOTO version I sent you of the much larger scene I have with not only to top ball fully in view and quite more sky above it --- but 3 balls on a hanging sign - at top of photo - from the side of Stern's building wall.  However, this cropped version still  is a good addition to the 3rd Ave El thread --- so its OK as is.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 1:48 PM

And further improved: (but Joe Frank should visit the Third Avenue Lightweight thread before commenting.)

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 7:13 AM

 

Richard Allman's superb improvcement on my work

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 6, 2022 7:13 PM

Glad that the clockface is readable.  In the afternoon, a similar train would be a Local Rxpress northboubd, and a local southbound.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:40 PM

You are somewhat correct about the photo time of day --- buts its very late morning -- really actually near NOON -  as the rush hour only expresses also were ended by time of photo taken...which is obviously WELL INDICATED by the clock face time shown as nearly 20 minutes to NOON ! 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 1:28 PM

Since the buildings on 3rd Avenue's west side are facing sunlight, I  believe this is a morning photo, and six cars on the train tell me it is bounf to Bronx Park or 241st Street fron City Hall, returning as a local from where it originatedc on its doentoen run as a non-rush-hour Local-Express, express only south of 125th Street.

Did you take the worthwhile original picture itself?

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Friday, September 30, 2022 2:14 AM

Dave ----- the view is looking north due west along the uptown track side of the 3rd Ave El -- with an uptown 6 car MUDC Local which has just left the E. 84th St uptown station directly behind me -- headed to E. 89th St Station at right lower corner.  The lamp post next to the train is at the S/E corner of E. 85th Street on 3rd Ave. I knew most all the shops and stores seen in this photo and grew up at this area. Yes, that IS the now famed Yorkville clock -- in its original state - owned by Sterns Jewelers and Pawn Shop at right.  EVERYYTHING seen in that photo except that clock,  minus its 3 hanging top balls when it was restored,  is completely gone today.  As are most of the people around back then (EXCEPT me, and you, heh)  !  (Joe F)

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7:09 PM

Mild editing of a photo sent by Joe Frank, of the clock on Third Avenue south of 86th Street, with the uptown 89th Strteet Statiom in the backround.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 1, 2022 1:48 AM

Both versions  are valuable, and you did a fine photo-editing job on this.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Sunday, July 31, 2022 7:57 PM

Hello Dave.

That is an enlargement image I made (from the full size image) of the end of the last car -- I thought that man leaning out the storm door opening may have been you at about age 22 or 23 then !  Here BELOW  is the FULL SIZE version which I also sent you via private email an hour ago.

It is looking north from the north end of the lower level N/B local station platform of the 3rd Ave EL's E. 42nd Street Double-Deck Express Station.  This final and last "revenue" local train on the Manhattan part of the EL was at this location about 6:30 PM that Thurs. 5-12-1955 as it heads towards the E. 47th Street Local Station seen in distance.. and the Bronx and the to soon be E.149th Street new southern terminal station.  Regards - Joe F.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 31, 2022 2:15 PM

Joe Frank sent me a scanned version of the newspaper photo of the May, 1955 last Manhatgan 3rd Avenue Elevated,  I was in the Army at Fort Bragg, NC, and could not attend.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 7, 2022 12:43 AM

Correction, the infornative entry and discussion on "changing ends" is on the Scranton thread.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 7, 2022 12:10 AM

Go to the thread on Third Avene homemade lightweight cars, and you will get all the information you could want.  But not only double-end streetcarsm but also classic non-air-conditioned commuter and long-distance railroad coaches had (have) flippable, reversable seatbacks, and the streetcr operator or railroad trainmab or conductor could (can) walk down the aisle and use one hand on the right and one on the left flipping the seatbacks pivoted at mid-height or at the bottom on a the two curved tracks under the armrests.

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Posted by traindaddy1 on Monday, July 4, 2022 1:36 PM

Have been reading and remembering the 3rd Ave. El.

One of my "oldest" recollection was not of the elevated line itself but of the trolleys that ran underneath. 

What, beleive it or not, was the way the wicker seat backs were moved to reflect the change of direction for the return trip. (As a youngster, I always though that the trolley had to make a circle to go back downtown before I saw the action) 

Another thing I remember was how wide 3rd Avenue appeared once the El was removed.

Thanks, so much.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, June 22, 2022 9:06 AM

daveklepper
several on Cuban sugar plantations

Hmmm, maybe a trip to Cuba's in order?  Hmm

Of course, who knows what kind of shape they're in at this point, if they're even still around?  Steam hunter Colin Garratt once said the maintanance on Cuban steam engines ranged from "outstanding" to "bombs looking for a place to explode,"  and some did.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 11:45 AM

The other Third Avenue Elevated thread has what I was told was the original elevated railroad steam locomitive.

One of the Forneys was kept operational for emergencies, and was kept under cover in a shed near 129th St. and 2nd Avenue.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 19, 2022 6:28 AM

Two more Nate Gersten transmissions arrived, one is herewith poted, the other on the other Third Avene Elevated thread.  This shows the yard just north of the Harlem River Bridge filled with the 0-4-4T Forneys that powered the Manhattan Elevateds before electrification.  The train behind is a Seconf Avenue train to or from Bronx  Park, with one of the rare oipen-car trailers in its consist.

All the operational Forneys were sold for further use. two ending up in Alaska, several on Cuban sugar plantations, and many on short-lines.   The last two were sold in 1942!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 2, 2022 2:30 AM

Nate Gerstein photo looking north on thr lower level of the Harlem River Bridge also belongs here.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Friday, December 31, 2021 2:31 PM

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Friday, December 31, 2021 5:47 AM

 

Hello Dave

Well, as you can see - via the private email I sent to you - with the 2021 image of the same location on E. 86th Street -- nothing is remaining as seen in your 1946 B&W photo --- except the corner building at left at the SW corner 2nd Ave & E. 86th Street.  All others west to 3rd Ave. -- and somewhat west to Lex. Ave.,  replaced by Hi-Rise buildings.  The old neighborhood is decades long gone from the Multi-European based communiuty it was long ago.  It was a basic big waste of my time and effort to try to put the modern photo here for you to see on this message at this site -- it would continually not show up.   Regards - Joe F

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 30, 2021 1:09 AM

transferred from the Brooklyn Elevateds thread, following Joe Frank's correction.

Looking west from 86th Street & 2nd Avenue, 1947 or 1948.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 27, 2021 11:20 AM

If the train was only five cars long, the reason above would apply, and the origine going north was probably South Ferry, with the niorthern destination 129th Street or Tremont Avenue.

If the train was seven-cars long, originated at City Hall, and had any Bronx northern destination, Tremont Avenue, Fordham Road, Bronx Park, Gun Hill Road, or 241st Street- White Plains Road, it was Through Exoress euipment that had been diverted  to provide local service to fill a gap. porobably because of some disruption on the South Ferry branch.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 26, 2021 3:48 AM

A very very rare rush-hour exception, possibly because a  more-than-average number of MUDCs  were in for repair and/or maintenace at 99th Street Shops.

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Posted by WILLIAM O CRAIG on Friday, December 24, 2021 12:33 PM

I rode a gate-car local train on  the Third Avenue elevated line in Manhattan in August 1949 when I was on my first visit to New York.  I could see the express track rising up alongside us through the car windows.  It was the first time I found out about the upper-level arrangement for express trains.  It must have been during rush hour, because the train was crowded and my sister and I had a little trouble getting through the gate to get off.  

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Tuesday, December 21, 2021 5:34 PM

 NOTE:  I removed the accidentally installed duplicate posting here, of what is seen (my first posting) above !! Sorry for the duplicate posting - don't know what happened to cause that ! !

 

I guess the readers here don't appreciate really scale detailed transit modeling -- except Dave Klepper !

Joe F

 

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