Yup. Most of the distances NKP handled the cars were fairly short. CERA box trailers had normal train air on their radial couplers. The cars were handled in short cuts, so the relative underframe strength wasn't an issue. Most of the activity had dried up by the time any ICC orders about arch-bar trucks in interchange service kicked in.
I think I remember reading about such an arrangement between the Indiana Railroad (the interurban) and the Nickle Plate (NYC&StL). 'No reason that steam railroad would not have had similar arrangements with the C&LE, Detroit-Toledo, and Northen Ohio.
Although later better known for "High Speed" freight service, this steam road handled interurban trailers for short distances for several connecting lines. Although several other trunk lines shared its territory, it was the only road that regularly did so.
That's it!.
The sections and their assigned washrooms were arranged on each side of the aisle thus from one end of the car: public washroo,: private section, 2 private washrooms (each taking 1/2 the space of a section, and thus were not as roomy as a regular washroom), private section, and then 5 ordinary sections. From the diagram, these private sections had curtains, just as the other sections did, so the porter was not hampered in preparing the berths as they were hampered by the aisle walls in enclosed sections. The only advantage (as I see such) to these sections was that the occupant(s) did not have to wait to use the washroom.
Johnny
The cars were probably a response to the Pickwick Night Coach, a double-deck Pullman-style road coach. Pacific Greyhound bought 10 around 1930, probably for LA-SF service.
The 16 section cars cars were originally rebuilt (to plan 2412H) for SP's Sunset and Lark (used between LA and SF on both trains), with ten standard section plus four sections paired with four of the lavatories set up as "private sections". Car names started with "Dale". Most of the cars were rebuilt in 1937 to plan 4042B (10 sec, 2DBR, 1Cpt) and named for colleges. Four similar cars were rebuilt for Southern.
The names of the cars rebuilt to plan 2412H cars that were painted for Southern Ry. and named after important southerners:
Marshland -> John T. Morgan -> wrecked in 1933 on PRR at Tuxedo MD
Nacora -> Daleview -> John T. Morgan (1933) -> Smith College
Trollope -> John Slidell -> Tufts College
Krantwood -> John Morehead -> Salem College
Graytown -> Henry W. Grady -> Heidelberg College
All four of the names had prevously been used on other cars assigned to Southern, built new in 1925 and 1929.
All of the rebuilds were plan 4042B 10 secs, 2 DBR, 1 Cpt. and ended up in Southern Railway ownership.
Thanks again to the Pullman Project database.
Deggesty In 1931 and 1932, Pullman rebuilt 20 16-section cars to have 14 sections and 6 washrooms. What was the reason for the 4 additional washrooms? Incidentally 4 of these cars were rebuilt for service on a a New York-New Orleans train.
In 1931 and 1932, Pullman rebuilt 20 16-section cars to have 14 sections and 6 washrooms. What was the reason for the 4 additional washrooms?
Incidentally 4 of these cars were rebuilt for service on a a New York-New Orleans train.
I guess it was because of the Jim Crow laws, racial segregation. The population of African Americans in New Orleans is still high nowadays, and the south was governed by the party that passed the Jim Crow laws, African Americans were not allowed to vote, serve on juries and local office...... Just a wild guess.
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Overmod You got this out of Neubauer's list while reviewing the four Williams, didn't you?
You got this out of Neubauer's list while reviewing the four Williams, didn't you?
This work shows diagrams of the floor plans of various cars.
The new names of the cars were Henry W. Grady, John T. Morgan, John M. Morehead, and John Slidell.
1932 cars eventual disposition:
William Davison -> Bluefield (1950) sold to AEC 1650 (1961)
William Lewis Sharkey -> Vicker (1940) to AEC 1652 (1961). There were three William Lewis Sharkeys, the first built new in 1925.
William Rufus King -> Pembroke (1940). Another William Rufus King was rebuilt in 1940 from Naughton (1916)
All of this info from The Pullman Project's database.
Rob:
Thank you for adding information to the above post.
Ed Burns
Johnny has it!!
One book I have shows a broadside of the "William Wyatt Bibb".
Next question to you.
The former Willam Rufus King/Stonewall Jackson ended up on NdeM as Cacahuamilpa (1950)
The four 1932 cars are listed in Pullman records as rebuilds from cars formerly assigned to PRR.
Ravensworth (1911) -> William Davidson
Binstead (1911) -> William Lewis Sharkey
Beach Haven (1910) -> William Rufus King
Bucyrus (1917) -> William Wyatt Bibb
In 1929, Pullman built four 8 section, 1 drawing room, and 2 compartment cars for the Southern Railway Crescent Limited. During the Depression, the train ran without a name,, but simply as #37 and $38. After the Depression, it was renamed Crescent, and Amtrak operates a train with the same name--but it runs on NS all the way between Washington and New Orleans, and not through Montgomery.
The cars wer named William Davidson, William Lewis Sharkey, William Rufus King, and William Wyatt Bibb, all of whom were politcal men in the South (US Representative, Senator, and Vice-President, and state governor--not necessarily in that order. In 1932, they were renamed, in order, George Wythe ("With"), Robert P. Hoke, Stonewall Jackson, and P.G.T. Beauregarde--all men of note in the South..
Dave and Jones1945:
Nope--I forgot that the Capitol Limited was on Amtrak--we rode it from Chicago to PGH about two years and had to wait for three or so hours for a train to Harrisburg.
Keep on digging.
Speaking of B&O Capitol Limited, here is a comparison of the consist to its primary rival, PRR's Liberty Limited in 1938:
The Capitol Limited (11 cars):
(wiki)
PRR's Liberty Limited (7 cars):
just guessing: B&O Capitol Limited, four authors
ALL:
I am going to jump into this forum with a new question:
This train (the name still used by AMTRAK) had four new heavy weights built for the train in 1929. In 1932, these four names were used on rebuilt sleepers.
Hint: All four had the prefix "William" in their name.
Name the railroad those four operated on and the name of the train.
What did all four "Williams'" have in common.
Happy researching!
rcdrye I think Johnny (Deggesty) has it.
I think Johnny (Deggesty) has it.
Not sure where BLS53 came from with his posting. I still don't have an answer on my bottle train query, although rcrdye is getting close. The bottle train was originally from Interlake's blast furnace in East Side to the finishing mill in Riverdale.
Who currently has this? I didn't have the right answer.
rcdrye daveklepper And CSX also uses it? CSX no longer operates in the area. The ex-NC&StL line was abandoned some time after the NC&StL/L&N merger. Your question, Johnny!
daveklepper And CSX also uses it?
And CSX also uses it?
CSX no longer operates in the area. The ex-NC&StL line was abandoned some time after the NC&StL/L&N merger.
Your question, Johnny!
NC&StL never used the bridge. At the time, they had plans to extend their trackage to St. Louis, but that never happened.
L&N took over the NC&StL in 1957. They ran a daily local from Bruceton TN to Paducah until 1981. The tracks were removed from Murray KY northward, a few years later.
The Paducah & Illinois, was on paper only. Strictly concerned with the Metropolis bridge ownership rights and responsibilies of the railroads who used it. The P&I never owned any locomotives or rolling stock.
rcdryeI think one of the ends was Burns Harbor.
That would be this guy. Currently with this name, owned by ArcelorMittal, useta be Beth Steel.
Meanwhile, the facility in East Chicago appears to have been called InLAND Steel at some point, Indiana Harbor ... I don't know whether East or West; this may have something to do with the disjoint operations.
I have no idea where that 'Riverside' came from... of course it's Riverdale. A little history from the Web:
The Acme Steel Furnace Plant on the east side of the river at 108th Street was part of a company with multiple roots. The original steel making plant on the site was Federal Furnace which opened in 1908. It merged with By Products Coke Corporation which in 1905 had opened a coke plant at 112th and Torrence Avenue. The merger was named Interlake Steel. Eventually a conveyor was built across the Calumet River linking these two operations. Acme Steel which began operation in this area in Riverdale in 1917 later merged with these companies and was known as Interlake Steel. In 1984 Acme Steel spun off from Interlake and remained in operation until late 2001 when it went out of business after being in bankruptcy for a number of years. ISG bought the Riverdale plant of former Acme but not the 89 acre furnace plant or the 102 acre coke plant. The site still has some of the few remaining examples of the type of equipment used to make steel in this area. It had the last remaining blast furnace in the Chicago area until it was torn down in July of 2004.
IHB was not involved in the original routing. Acme, later known as Interlake Steel, had the most disjointed steel mill in the Chicago area. Coke ovens were located at 112th and Torrence, blast furnaces were across the Calumet River at 108th and Burley, and the finishing mill (still in operation) is in Riverdale (not Riverside).
Interstate Steel is a steel service center (warehouse) operator only. One of my rugby teammates was a sales rep for that firm.
I know the move was on the EJ&E (at first) but I can't find the names of the plants, though I think one fo the ends was Burns Harbor.
CSSHEGEWISCHThe original endpoints were both Interlake Steel facilities and the routing was over a single railroad.
Well that rules out fairly conclusively what I thought it was: from LTV (now Arcelor Mittal) in East Chicago to the old Acme mill in Riverside (closed 2001, reopened 'under new management' in 2003). Probably south on the ex-South Chicago & Southern 'Bernice Cutoff' line (ex-PRR?) then west on IHB at Burnham; Riverside being close to Dolton Junction.
(At least some of the Acme facilities may have been ex-Interlake Steel, but I haven't found good sources that show which was which. You didn't mean InterSTATE, by any chance?)
.
The original endpoints were both Interlake Steel facilities and the routing was over a single railroad.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter