Ain't he a stinker!!!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
LOL, She was "The First Niagara"!
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
It was called a Niagara. I will get even with that scoundrel. Perhaps a question about Burkina Faso!
See Page 1 ( that's one, as in page 1) of 'Know Thy Niagaras'
http://anyflip.com/aspq/rehi
OvermodThe H S-1a was far from a 'flop' -- it operated very successfully in initial tests, before the groundswell of 'negative enthusiasm' for that ominous 850psi dial began building.
Sound like another victim who was wrongfully accused, intentionally or not, with historical facts back up or not... Just as the PRR T1 has been described as a class of crazy slipping Michael Jackson-Moonwalking machine until recent years. And I read somewhere that a dude post message like the PRR S1 was scraped immediately after the World Fair due to its gigantic size. Thanks to Wiki, people who actually care about the specific topic could provide historical facts to put an end to rumors, including conventional knowledge that was built upon misinformation.
So what was the name of NYC HS-1a #800? Miningman, I know you will find it!
The NYC October 1931 Employee Magazine has a near full page article on the debut of the #800, quite the write up but no mention of a name.
HOWEVER...Know Thy Niagaras does... it was called a Niagara! How about that. Man that sucks.
I'll be glad to be all the way down in the Mid-South when you find the answer.
Ok ,thanks , good tip, now someone search all the NYC Employee Magazines from 1932 and down . I have to go grocery shopping and prep up for tomorrow first day back from Winter Break. 4 hours face time in 3 subjects and groggy students ( and instructors) .
The name was given before 1932.
The H S-1a was far from a 'flop' -- it operated very successfully in initial tests, before the groundswell of 'negative enthusiasm' for that ominous 850psi dial began building. As a larger, more capable, much more fuel-efficient early Mohawk it might have succeeded nicely ... but the early Mohawks got dramatically obsoleted right around this time by the improving state of the 'conventional two-cylinder art' that replaced any reason for three-cylinder engines with duplexes, and then any reason for multicylinder non-articulated engines with big simples of intelligent detail design...
Compare the Gresley high-pressure engine of about this time, as well as the LMS Fury, when looking at hopes and expectations from higher-pressure compound operation. We see an interestingly different trend on B&O, where the attempt is to use marginally higher pressure from a watertube firebox only (up to about 350psi) in two-cylinder simples ... didn't go too far there, either, and certainly not after Emerson retired.
There is a New York Central Employee Magazine published until 1932. Then there is the " The Headlight" starting in 1940. This leaves a gap of 7-8 years, which I cannot find either on the CASO site or the NYC Historical group site.
Other than that all I get is an endless amount of E Bay sites.
So I shall guess- Seneca or Oneida, Delaware, Onondaga, Chippewa, St. Lawrence, .maybe even Cuyahoga , but that's in Ohio but it is Lake Erie related... I think David's guess of Cayuga was in the ballpark.
Firelock Wayne's suggestion to me was "Flop" which although doubtful is accurate.
Maybe 16 wheeler, 800 class, VHP ( very high pressure), WTE ( worst thing ever)
According to "Know Thy Niagaras" the name was published in the NYC employees' magazine when the locomotive was introduced to service.
Other possibilies: Samson, Herculies, Amazon
The wheel arrangement was eventually "Niagra," but I suppose it would be something different, yet associated with a river or body of water. Great Lakes? Lake Michigan or Lake Erie? Cayuga?
daveklepperIf they had great hopes for it they might have named it the Cornelius Vanderbilt.
They saved that for the Kantola-streamlined Hudson...
Note that the 'name' here is a class name, not an individual name applied only to the particular example. It would apply to the wheel arrangement, just as 'Mohawk' would be applied to the predecessor 4-8-2s or 'Hudson' to the recently-introduced 4-6-4s.
If they had great hopes for it they might have named it the Cornelius Vanderbilt. Just a guess.
MiningmanSo far I have not found a specific name for #800.
Keep looking. You will be surprised what you find.
I have to wonder if they replaced the boiler before making it the Selkirk hump engine. It was clearly intended for mainline work. Neighboring D&H's high-pressure experimentals were most likely the push to both NYC and Alco - but like the D&H engines, the HS-1A needed to stay close to someone who could give it lots of TLC.
Interesting. Hs-1a # 800 had a named designation? Well many railroads called them Northerns, lots of exceptions though. UP called them FEF's , CNR called them Confederations and there are many others Dixies, Potomocs...) . Perhaps since it spent its whole career in yard work at Selkirk they called it a Selkirk! That would clash with CPR's mighty Selkirks though. So far I have not found a specific name for #800.
NYC very famously introduced a class of 4-8-4 locomotives at the end of WWII, calling them "Niagaras" (the river, as with 'Hudson' or 'Mohawk'
But this wasn't the first class of NYC 4-8-4: there was an experimental high-pressure 'freight' locomotive from the late '20s. What was the name assigned to the wheel arrangement in 1931?
Bumped to throw it open to new blood.
Thanks! The only reference I ever had was Mr. Middleton, and he evidently didn't know how to spell it. (Not the first time I was deceived; for years I thought the LeTourneau trailer-handler had a very different name courtesy of John Kneiling... if you can't trust him to know what an intermodal machine is called, who should you trust?
Moral -- as with the 18-year-old da Vinci -- trust, but verify. Surprising what you can learn.
(Amusingly, if you have posts set to 'latest first', as I do, and if Kalmbach screws up the presentation sort order after you've posted something, as it does, you find yourself at wanswheel's post of Thursday, April 16, 2009, 11:27pm, which discusses the freight arrangements on C&LE and the Lake Shore...)
Note the very different but critical technology change necessary to implement the Bonner 'system' in the early Thirties. Since the vehicles can't have normal cross-axles or axletrees, very interesting suspension arrangements are necessary, which on wagons suffer from extreme lack of lateral rigidity. By the time of the interurban, we see suspension almost like that of an aircraft undercarriage, quite possibly incorporating 'knee-action' friction shock absorbers. Presumably reinforcement in the van bodies was necessary to allow use of this design of undercarriage, and it is interesting to speculate what would be necessary to accommodate the use of multiple tires for later weight accommodation as governments (Missouri a particular case in point) moved to restrict road-damaging vehicles through load and size restrictions per axle or tire...
I still think the Lohr system is underrated as a method of low-drag "TOFC" intermodal.
It's Bonner, not Banner, but you win anyway.
Col Bonner sold one flat car and a four wagons that almost looked like oxcarts to the Manx Electric Railway, a 3 ft. gauge electric line on the Isle of Man, in 1898. His next delivery was a single flatcar and six trailers to the Lake Shore Electric, which used it in Cleveland - Toledo - Detroit service (with Detroit United Railways) from 1931 to 1933. Cincinnati & Lake Erie, which worked heavily with LSERy on interurban freight, opted for its own container system instead. LSE would have needed a transfer crane to handle C&LE containers, so they were only used on C&LE lines. The state of Ohio decided in 1933 that both railroads needed highway carrier permits to carry highway trailers. Rather than fight off the state both interurbans dropped their truck-related services, continuing their box-motor and trailer service. Interurban freight held up fairly well for both companies into the 1930s until the loss of interurban connections, including the Northern Ohio to Akron and Canton, the Penn-Ohio system east of Youngstown, the DUR connection to Detroit, and the Fort Wayne & Lima and Dayton & Western connections into Indiana.
The Rail Wagon used special trailers that it slid under, so loading was simple - just park the trailers on the ramp and shove the car until they were loaded. Insull's Ferry Truck system used standard road trailers, eventually carrying non-Insull trailers as well.
http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2018/07/bonner-road-rail-wagons-something-ive.html
Banner 'rail wagon' service on the Lake Shore in 1930?
The 'store door' service on Cincinnati & Lake Erie was one of the inspirations for my idea of overnight high-speed NEC container trains in the 1970s...
The system I'm looking for is a little less "Piggyback" like in that the frame of the trailer sits on the carrying flatcar. Think Flexi-van without removing the wheelsets and you'll be close. Add an interurban that neighbored another interurban with pioneer container service and you should have it. The system was known by its inventor's name.
For what it's worth, the only other implementation of this system involved slate wag(g)ons in the U.K.
I think the answer is Long Island Rail Road's "Farmer's Trains" in 1880s. Piggybacking was pioneered by the Long Island Rail Road back in 1885 for the benefit of farmers seeking a faster, more economical way of getting their produce to markets in Brooklyn and New York.
As this old woodcut of the Long Island City terminal shows, loaded wagons were carried on specially built flat cars, much in the same way loaded truck trailer is transported today. The Horses rode in special boxcars, and there was a coach on each train for the grooms and drivers.
The system I'm looking for was a hybrid trailer/container system. The design of the system dated to the end of the 19th century, with one installation, not in the U.S. The interurban bought one special car which would carry three trailers, and six trailers.
North Shore's Ferry Truck system was contemporary - it was actually tried first on the South Shore, but the market wasn't there. North Shore had a market that really worked, at least until US 41 was paved.
The North Shore was a pioneer in trailor-on-flatcar service, but I think you want something earlier.
I should note that after the sale of the Chelsea-Revere streetcar lines to the Boston Elevated, the Eastern Massachusetts Street Railway, still operating the Quincy, Howes Neck, and Stoneham streetcar lines, did start Lynn - Boston bus service in competition with the Narrow Gauge and B&M rail service as replacement for its suburban streetcar service that had run to Haymarket Square and Brattle Loop at Scolley Square Station using Boston Elevated tracks south of Chelsea Square. I think that this bus service continues today as "T" express bus service in competition with the "T" commuter rail service.
One of the ancestors of Piggyback was created with 6 trailers and one car by an interurban. A neighboring company developed its own container system after negotiations on patent fees and other things to use the piggyback system failed, only to shut down container operations when the state insisted that the railroad had to have a motor carrier certificate to handle containers.
Name the pre-piggyback system and the company with the containers.
Note - the pre-piggyback system "may" have been invented in the U.K. some thirty years before the events mentioned above - but the developer still managed to patent it anyway!
Will one of you ask the next question?
All of you gave part answers and one of you can ask the next question. The standard gauge now is on the RoW, so one can say that, yes, finally part of the line, Airport - Revere-Wonderland, was finally converted to standard gauge after a long period of no use. And we have 600volt dc traction and overhead caternary just like BRB&L days!
Nobody did note that the NYNH&H did have a proposal to buy and electrify and standard-gauge the line around 1911. It was not acted on.
And the original builders found that standard-gauge ties were cheaper than narrow-gauge.
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