This would be San Francisco's local switching railroad that had (among other tracks) the tracks on the Embarcadaro that are now used by MUNI's E and F heritage operations. Don't remember the official name of the operation. It did last through WWII and several years later. San Fancisco Belt?
Even though this belt line only served the city it was located in, it wasn't owned by the city. At one point in its route it crossed the tracks of both privately and publicly owned street railways.
Since the ATS box isn't on the front deck it's probably on top of the tender.
ATS, ATC and cab signal systems all had hardware that looked more or less the same, but the internals were different. This led to lots of interesting situations on detour moves, even fairly recently. Amtrak detours out of Chicago on the C&NW in the F40PH era got a borrowed C&NW engine until someone figured out that the ex-IC E-units could be assigned since they had a compatible ATS setup. Eventually someone at Beech Grove assembled the "Cab Signal from Hell" which could be set up on multiple systems onto some of the F40 fleet. Even today Amtrak has to pay attention to assignments with ATS active in the LA basin, ACSES on Amtrak lines and I-ETMS everywhere except for the ITCS installations near Chicago.
This publicly-owned line served two military bases. It also interchanged with two of its three class I connections via water. Even though its primary job was to serve shipping, it did not run its own car float operations.
The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac had ATS as well.
Yup, right on, thanks for the correction.
MiningmanIn 1929 four passenger engines (all Pacific 4-6-2) were equipped with Automatic Train Control (ATC) to operate over the NYC between Welland and Buffalo.
Note that rcdrye was correct; this equipment is ATS, not ATC. The only thing it does is penalty-brake the train if signals are missed; it does not control speed.
The actual train-control box location ought to be specified -- my guess is that it's under the cab, as I see cabling going there, but many American roads sited it to be easy to access and maintain (but comparatively away from road dust and thrown debris). The only ATS 'equipment' on the tender truck is the inductive shoe. The position of the shoe is interesting; it would be difficult to mount on a composite trailing truck, and of course not on an inside-bearing lead truck, so it goes on the tender; I notice that the truck is pushed up to the very front of the tender for better stability, so there is limited clearance, and presumably dynamic stability of the truck is better with the shoe on the trailing rather than leading axle anyway.
You betcha! Diving in head first with the correct answer in record time.
In 1929 four passenger engines (all Pacific 4-6-2) were equipped with Automatic Train Control (ATC) to operate over the NYC between Welland and Buffalo. G2 class 2659 and 2662 and G4 class 2714 and 2715. G3's 2332 and 2337 replaced 2714 and 2715 which were transferred to Western Lines in February and Julyof 1938. In 1948 all four were replaced by three modern Pacifics 2398 and brand new MLW built G3j 2465 and 2469 built in June and July after which only three more 2400's were built. Note: 2662 may have been kept as a John Street protect engine with ATC. See 1950 photo above at TH&B Hunter Street station.
ATC equipment connected to right side tender truck second axle.
rcdrye has the fine honour of the next question.
Automatic Train Stop (ATS). Required on the MC/NYC Welland-Buffalo. Looks like the "shoe" is on the trailing axle of the lead tender truck.
The TH&B ( Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo Rwy.) ran daily service trains Toronto-Buffalo and return. 4 Canadian Pacific steam locomotives were specially equipped with a device not required anywhere else on the CPR or the TH&B. The TH&B Hudson's used in this service already came with the device.
2659 Squaw Island, Buffalo, New York. January 7, 1939 Bud Laws Collection
2662 northbound for Toronto in Buffalo, New York. Bud Laws Collection
2662 with Buffalo train bound for Toronto. TH&B Hunter Street station Hamilton 10/01/1950
Note: This was a John Street protect engine by this time.
So what was the device, this special requirement and why only on this part of the system?
SD70DudePerhaps Rock Island should have tried a co-branding initiative with the dancers.....
You mean go Union Pacific one better and paint on the equipment "We Can-Can Handle It"?
I believe the 'Cariboo' was the only officially named PGE/BC Rail train, though there were numerous nicknames.
I had not heard this one until now:
https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1950/6/1/green-light-for-the-crazy-quilt-express#!&pid=14
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
728 miles .. wow , guess I was thinking Kilometers and did a quick conversion in my head. That's pretty close to the Rock Island run. Was that also a named train...The Caribou? I think so.
Will post a new question soon enough.
Miningman So I will go with Rock Island's Choctaw Rocket 761 miles between Memphis and Amarillo.
So I will go with Rock Island's Choctaw Rocket 761 miles between Memphis and Amarillo.
That's it, though it had been nameless since 1958, as noted above. Perhaps Rock Island should have tried a co-branding initiative with the dancers.....
Miningman Pacific Great Easterns North Vancouver to Prince George was a big one too at around 500 miles.
Pacific Great Easterns North Vancouver to Prince George was a big one too at around 500 miles.
PGE ran scheduled passenger trains north of Prince George for a brief time, and I have seen photos of a RDC loading mail, express and passengers at Dawson Creek (I doubt they made a good connection with what remained of the Northern Alberta's passenger service).
The total mileage from North Vancouver to Dawson Creek is 724 miles, and going the other way to Fort St. John is 728 miles. So the 'Rockette' would still win out even if the PGE Budds ran though Prince George (I don't believe they did, but I could be wrong).
CRI&P's RDC-3s assigned to the 762 mile Choctaw Rockette run didn't lose their motors until the train was discontinued on August 7, 1964. The de-motored RDC-3s were then assigned to the "Cherokee" where they ran until 1967. The two cars assigned to the Kansas City Rocket were stored after the train was discontinued south of Wichita in late 1962, eventually being traded to GE as partial payment for U25Bs.
The Choctaw also had a prewar observation car available for overflow, with a baggage room cut into the blind end. RI used it even though it voided the Budd warranty.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1928554
CSSHEGEWISCHIf my memory serves me correctly, the RDC that ran as part of the "Twin Star Rocket" started south from Kansas City as the rider coach on what had become primarily a mail and express run and ran on its own from further south to terminate in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Problem with this is that even if it 'counts' all the way from KC, the mileage to Dallas is considerably shorter than that of the (acknowledged valid here) Choctaw 'Rockette'.
Distance to Dallas is an indicated 625 miles. Fort Worth is shorter at 591. (This from 1957; I doubt it would be appreciably longer by 1961 or so)
Now, if the RDC-as-rider connected through from the Twin Cities, or even a point further south, then you'd be able to add a proportional share of the 489 miles to get to KC... but I suspect that's not the case.
Note that the Twin Star Rocket actually connected with the Choctaw Rockette in El Reno, OK (which is an indicated 380 miles south of KC). So if we extend the question slightly to allow changing from one RDC to another, we get 893 miles as the combined route...
If my memory serves me correctly, the RDC that ran as part of the "Twin Star Rocket" started south from Kansas City as the rider coach on what had become primarily a mail and express run and ran on its own from further south to terminate in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Holee CASO Batman! One would think in terms of National Security and economic expedience but I suppose the railroads are so yesterday.
Not smart, important asset.
MiningmanAll of the former Rock Island from Memphis is gone?
There may be some small portions of it in use. The astounding thing is that something as valuable as a 'route of the 35th Parallel' was not seen as a strategic asset to be kept ... does this remind you of a certain northern equivalent similarly 'removed from the board'?
The route was valuable enough to be considered as one of the five choices for the original Pacific Railroad survey (in the mid-1850s). It's interesting to look at the historical forces that left it relatively unsuccessful as a line to the West.
All of the former Rock Island from Memphis is gone?... Suppose that is not surprising but sometimes it's one of those things you just don't want to accept, best not to know.
That Western Pacific trains 1 and 2 ran into part of 1960; someone will have the exact date. That's still well short of the last Timberliner.
Keep in mind that the Choctaw Rocket was an E6-hauled Pullman Standard consist; the RDC train up to 1958 was the Choctaw Rockette. (I don't know if it had a 'name' after that...)
Theoretically, at least (on the theory that nobody rides a local-accommodation train end to end by particular choice) it would have been possible to run the Cherokee with RDC equipment. Had this been done with the sort of amenities provided by the WP or the B&O Speedliners, it might not have been so bad ... no, wait, an RDC on the Rock's deteriorating jointed rail all the way via Tucumcari to Los Angeles? Maybe not...
Hard to believe that whole 'parallel' route west from Memphis is gone.
PGE had the amenities and on-board service that made the experience more pleasant.
Well you specified North America so that rules out Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie from Down Under, a distance of 1,052 miles.
The Western Pacific Zephyrette Salt Lake City to Oakland was 917 miles but maybe it was discontinued a couple of years before the Timberland.
Man all of those are a long way to go in a Budd car.
At the time of the Timberliner's last run (see previous question), what was the longest scheduled Budd RDC run in North America?
Railroad and endpoints please.
Future railfan, or already one. Yeah that's one of the pics all right. Only 3 cars but all are quite interesting.
I think I posted that Pennsy pic on Classic before. It's a really long train.
Miningman The TIMBERLINER was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever leave Mackinaw City. A few minutes earlier the daily RDC3 BEELINER had arrived from Detroit. It was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever arrive at Mackinaw City. As soon as the RDC3 was unloaded, it was coupled to the rear of the TIMBERLINER where it can be seen just a few moments before the final passenger train departed.
The TIMBERLINER was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever leave Mackinaw City. A few minutes earlier the daily RDC3 BEELINER had arrived from Detroit. It was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever arrive at Mackinaw City. As soon as the RDC3 was unloaded, it was coupled to the rear of the TIMBERLINER where it can be seen just a few moments before the final passenger train departed.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/626813/
Is that a friend of yours beside the locomotive? Looks a little young to be you.
I'll try to post a question by tomorrow evening.
We have a win-nah! You bet, bang on.
I have pics of both trains on their final runs but they are buried among my Imgur pics and there are a lot. I will post them sometime soon in the future.
The PRR Northern Arrow was a really long train, even its final run, as it picked up cars from many cities along its route.
The NYC filed for discontinuance the same year as the Pennsy in 1961 citing an average of 12 riders but was turned down. They tried again a year later and this time said 10 riders per average trip and that was the magic number. The BeeLiners fate was attached to the Timberliner and Sept. 3/62 both left together as explained above and Mackinaw City passenger was over.
There were some rumours and stories that NYC ran a few trips in '63 but it is unconfirmed, makes little sense and likely folklore.
PRR "Northern Arrow" to Mackinaw City, with cars originating in Cincinnati, Columbus, St. Louis, and Chicago. The first to be withdrawn, in 1961.
NYC's "Timberliner" lasted a bit longer, on its Detroit-Mackinaw City run.
I had first thought of the Laurentian ski trains from Montreal, but they didn't fit.
No, no Canadian Roads involved at all.
MiningmanDid not receive an acknowledgment that this was the answer sought out...
Why would you think one was necessary ... for such an obviously correct answer?
(cue quiet but maniacal satisfied laughter...)
Two Eastern titans of the rails had named passenger service from large urban areas, one of them fed in by several branch lines on route, terminating in a much much smaller location. What were the trains names, origins and endpoints? Hoping the question is not too vague.
What were the trains names, origins and endpoints?
Hoping the question is not too vague.
Won't be. It's a good question for people with full OGs.
This is almost certainly going to be a society or 'spa' destination, like French Lick or White Sulfur Springs or even some point in the Mohawk and Malone service area. Maintaining a 'name train' with only an average of 10 passengers will be a strong clue. It does not escape my mistrustful eye that Canadian Eastern titans of the rails may be involved.
Did not receive an acknowledgment that this was the answer sought out but I'll assume it is an proceed onto the next question.
Two Eastern titans of the rails had named passenger service from large urban areas, one of them fed in by several branch lines on route, terminating in a much much smaller location. They were a big deal pre WWII, then put on hold during the war years, then reinstated and re-equipped after the war years. Initially very successful they went into decline fairly rapidly and discontinued in the early 60's, the first in '61 followed a year less a day by the other.
In the last years of operation the second to discontinue claimed its named train averaged ten people per trip. Another sad tale of iconic well known service faded into lore and relegated to history.
The endpoint is not exactly a place 'associated' with these biggies, far from metro areas, coalfields and their usual places of doing business.
Perhaps the folks today wish they were still available.
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