rcdrye I just said Mexico. You guys figure it out...
I just said Mexico. You guys figure it out...
PRR to Mexico, PA?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
If Mexico, Missouri, counts, the Wabash served the city with two streamlined City trains--St. Louis and Kansas City.
Incidentally, the capital of Mexico is Mexico, D. F.; not Mexico City.
Mexico in Indiana, Kentucky, and New York do not enter into this.
Johnny
Does Cotton Belt and SP count as one railroad?
Did he say Mexico the country or does he mean something else, perhaps? I have a picture of a KCS streamlined passenger locomotive going through Mexico, in 2013 no less. Catch is, it's Mexico, Missouri...
And Mexico City is a very different thing, and a much longer trip involving significant peak altitude, than just getting to, or across, the Mexican border... theoretically at least you could have taken SSW from St. Louis to Brinkley and thence connected with the Lone Star and SP to go over the SD&AE...
Definitely passenger service from St. Louis to Mexico. Even streamlined! All on one railroad!
Yoo are not specifying passenger service. The Missouri-Kansas-Texas did have at least one line to the Mexican border and interchanged freight cars with NdeM. I see no record of their having through passenger service, but perhaps they did.
The St. Louis - San Francisco also linked St. Louis with many Texas points, but I have not found any line of theirs to the Mexican border.
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Missouri Pacific was famous for its service from St. louis to Mexico City. This other railroad also offered service from St. Louis to Mexico.
daveklepperOvermod, where are you?
Lost in the trenches fighting the coronavirus situation.
I have time to answer these, but not think up proper questions. Ask something while we're waiting...
Overmod, where are you?
Correct, the ex-GNs were the ones.
And yes, electric freght did continue under Conrail until 1984, and the Virginian rectdifier electtics ended up Virginian, N&W, NYNH&H, PC, and Conrail, quite a record!
New Haven EP-3s were tested by PRR leading to the 4-6-6-4 GG! design.
Look forward to Overmod's question.
Geoff, if you're going to nitpick, the date is as late as 1984. See the GE reconstruction of 4453 -- one of the great locomotives that shouldn't have been scrapped.
This being a separate issue from adoption of 'dual-mode-lite' in the ways that could have been adopted as a spur to new electrification as well as workarounds to issues with the old. (How I wish they'd tried it, even with DC motors on SD40-2 equivalents!)
Just an aside, but electric freight hauling continued after PC into Conrail until circa 1981.
GS
daveklepperWhen Penn Central almost immediately ran GG1s to New Haven and diverted Bay Ridge car-float and Maybrook fright traffic to Selkirk Yard, the New Haven's rectifier electrics, the EP-5s and EF-3-ex-Virignians saw freigiht service on ex-PRR electrified lines, until PC electric freight ended. But these were not the first non-PRR electrics to operate under PRR wire. What had the PRR purchased earler, their history both on the original railroad and on PRR?
What had the PRR purchased earler, their history both on the original railroad and on PRR?
I'm only sad that 5011, the ex-Y-1a with the interesting F-unit noses on it, was not put in service as well. Almost a textbook example of 'cognitive dissonance' is provided by that familiar nose with that style of composite single-axle truck underneath...
Now, what else might have been earlier -- I remember something about two experimental locomotives from another system being tried, perhaps on the original section to Paoli, in 1915. In fact I think these were in a previous question in one of the quiz threads here...
*I am sure some wisenheimer will ask 'why not the W-1 electrics, too?' Those were absolutely too big to run on PRR, although it would certainly have been fun to see twelve great axles of power in a single helper unit. I'm not sure I can figure out what the class might have been, but it's sort of like an isomer of the V1 underframe ... PRR appears not to have had 4-8-0s or a putative class for one.
Considering how short a time the FF2s actually ran, it's even possible PRR, had they bought the W-1s 'cheap', would have sold one of the two on to UP by 1960, for use in their Re-animator style coal-turbine science project...
When Penn Central almost immediately ran GG1s to New Haven and diverted Bay Ridge car-float and Maybrook fright traffic to Selkirk Yard, the New Haven's rectifier electrics, the EP-5s and EF-3-ex-Virignians saw freigiht service on ex-PRR electrified lines, until PC electric freight ended. But these were not the first non-PRR electrics to operate under PRR wire.
What had the PRR purchased eaarler, their history both on the original railroad and on PRR?
Prety good. The connection station f or the Twin Citieswas Owen WI, with the through cars continuing to Superior/Duluth. C&NW's Viking was the first choice for connections to the Soo-Dominion. The Milwaukee's Hiawatha was the preferred connection for the Winnipeger. The Soo did run its own through cars for the summer Mountaineer during the 1920s, but by the 1930s they had joined the year-round cars on the Viking. Through cars were dropped during WWII, and never restored.
Soo Line operated its own sleeping cars (often jointly with Canadian Pacific) for the most part, though it had a contract with Pullman. The Soo participated in a Pullman line (with the Milwaukee) from Chicago to Sault Ste. Marie via Pembine WI. The summer trains were heavy borrowers from the Pullman pool.
The railroad was the SOO (Minneapolis St. Paul and Saulte Ste. Marie); the sleeper left Chicago on a train to Duluth and/or Saulte Ste. Marie and arrived in St. Paul on a train from Manitowoc or Saulte Ste. Marie. If the former, the connection point would have been Marshfield or Menasha; if the latter, Widconsin Junction, Prentise, or Ladysmith. The car probably did go on from St. Paul to Minneapolis.
The CB&Q, C&NW, and CMStP&P all had good overnight as well as fast day trains between Chiccago and the Twin Cities. These were advertised connections for the SOO - CP trains to Winnapeg and Vancouver.
I have not been able to confirm this via the Internet, but I believe the through Chicago cars of the Soo-Dominion to Vancouver were handled by the Milwaukee St. Paul - Chicago, and did not go via the SOO itself.
On the Chicago - major city run, the sleeper was carried in two different trains on its route, with the transfer at a small intermediate station. At least three of the competitors on its run ran through sleeping cars and parlor cars with no change. Two of those were advertised as preferred connections.
On the Chicago-next metropolis segment it was not a major carrier, being better known for the destination trains.
Possibly the other railroads provided servce from a different eastern origine? Or served different intermediate points?
It would be logical for the AT&SF to show Chicago - KC CB&Q KC connections, possibly CRI&P as well.
Even though this railroad had its own trains, and even its own sleepers, between Chicago and the next "metropolis" to the west, it advertised other railroads' trains as the preferred way to connect with its west coast and western regional trains.
Let's have your next question and any other info you wish to add.
daveklepperBasically, I wanted a full business day in Raleigh after and before such in NYC, after the Owl from Boston the night before and either a concert and then the Owl or the Merchants to Boston after returning from Raleigh.
Of course that makes sense. The SAL service was geared almost entirely to the Florida market, with no setouts at Raleigh. I did notice the times in both directions allowed for good meals at the north end...
Basically, I wanted a full business day in Raleigh after and before such in NYC, after the Owl from Boston the night before and either a concert and then the Owl or the Merchants to Boston after returning from Raleigh. Don't remember just what I did for dinner before or after leaving Raleigh. Amd I did not want to leave or arrive Raleigh very late at night. I do remember being pleased with having made the decision.
The 1953 Guide I have out lists the arrival in Raleigh at 8:40 in the morning as the arrival and 6:00 in the evening as the departure. No meals were served between Greensboro and Goldsboro.
The 1948 and 1957 SR Official Guide listings don't give a lot of info about 13 and 14, the trains between Raleigh and Greensboro that carried the New York sleeper. The train istelf went on to Goldsboro. There were two other Pullman-carrying trains that shared at least some of the line in both 1948 and 1957, one being the Carolina Special from Chicago.
Please complete the answer and Then ask the next question.
Times of arrivals and departures in both directions. Description of the trains used between Greensboro and Raliegh.
On one occasion the State-of-Maine Concord sleeper was dropped at Ayer for some obscure reason. More than once, I do not know.
And thd Raleigh - NY sleeper was still running in 1957!
The Concord sleeper was cut out of the State of Maine at Lowell.
In 1948 PRR/SR offered a Pullman from New York to Raleigh NC (better served by Seaboard Air Line) that would have reversed direction in Greensboro NC. PRR 137 (the Mount Vernon and Southern Railway Express) NYC-WAS, SR 39 Washington-Greensboro, SR 14 Greensboro-Raleigh. 137 left New York at 6:30PM with a PRR diner and diner-parlor in the consist. Northbound 13 to Greensboro, 38 (Crescent) to Washington, and PRR 118 which carried only SR Cars from the Crescent, the Aiken-Augusta Special and the Asheville Special, and of course an SR diner, arriving after a nice breakfast at 9:15 AM.
For many years, the State-of-Maine New York (GCT) - Bangor NYNH&H-B&M-MC train carried a NY - Concord, NH, sleeper that was dropped off at Ayer or Lowell and picked up by an early mozrning Boston - Concord train, with the reverse in the evening for the return trip. Rode it by myself or with a camp group with multiple sleepers many times At Ayer or Lowell its direction of travel was reversed, much as the whole consist of the NY- Pittsburgh Pennsylvanian endures today.
The PRR and Southern Ry. had a similar sleeper well into the post-WWII era. from and to Penn Sta NYC. What was the southern destination, where was the reversal, and which trains did it use?
And why would I use it instead of the faster and more frequent competition?
State Belt Railway. The tracks in the Embarcadero were largely paved over in the 1980s. Today's F-Line is all new track, but bits and pieces of the State Belt can still be found. At Market Street it crossed both Muni and Market Street Railway tracks before 1944, and ran side-by-side with the Sacramento-Clay cable car.
The State Belt interchanged directly with SP near the 3rd and Townsend SP station, by water with AT&SF at China Basin (near Oracle Park, home of the SF Giants), and by water with Western Pacific at Pier 43. The Pier 43 float bridge is still intact.
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