I was reading the Dream Trains 2 magazine last evening and it seems that the article about the 'Cincinnatian' is what this post is about.
The railroad was the Baltimore and Ohio -(before its mergers) - and I have just reached the part where Amtrak stepped in. The article mentions these 56ft'ers and gives then the numbers and names of 3572 Oakley and 3573 Norwood. I can't recall the builder however.
Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad
https://www.buckfast.org.uk/
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)
The only trains I know of that carried 56 seat coaches with a Nurses room that were built new were the CHALLENGERS the cars were built by Pullman Standard. The 6160 - 6166 were owned by the C&NW and the 5200 -5211 were UP owned they operated in both the San Francisco Challenger between Chicago and Oakland and the Challenger between Chicago and Los Angeles.
Builder of the Cincinnatian cars was B&O shops and they were actually built from heavyweights and streamlined.
Al - in - Stockton
The article I refer to mentions the existing heavyweight cars and says that B&O 'cobbled together' two five car consists, which as far as I can see, included the two 56ft. cars.
But I accept, there may be others I know not of.
passengerfanThe only trains I know of that carried 56 seat coaches with a Nurses room that were built new were the CHALLENGERS the cars were built by Pullman Standard. The 6160 - 6166 were owned by the C&NW and the 5200 -5211 were UP owned they operated in both the San Francisco Challenger between Chicago and Oakland and the Challenger between Chicago and Los Angeles.
Al's turn - again.
Great Western, thanks for the posts. Interesting information; however, the question was not about coaches that were 56 feet long but rather coaches that had 56 seats in them. I'll have to go read that article that you referred to .
I should probably disqualify myself answering questions about streamlined coaches as I am writing a book on them at the present time and hope to have it finished soon it is now 448 pages without pictures so might have to be done in volumes. It is more technical and informational then similar books have been in the past. I had just completed the information on the Challenger trains so the information was handy.
My question is name the Coach only streamliners that operated west of the Mississippi? This does not include trains that operated with parlor cars or sleepers. The list is not very long.
Start with the City of Salinas? (UP) The Bullet cars of the Bamberger interurban, StLC - Ogden Do Budd RDC-car operations count? How about McKeen motor cars?
passengerfan I should probably disqualify myself answering questions about streamlined coaches as I am writing a book on them at the present time and hope to have it finished soon it is now 448 pages without pictures so might have to be done in volumes. It is more technical and informational then similar books have been in the past. I had just completed the information on the Challenger trains so the information was handy. My question is name the Coach only streamliners that operated west of the Mississippi? This does not include trains that operated with parlor cars or sleepers. The list is not very long. Al - in - Stockton
Well, carpe the diem, I guess. UP's Challenger, obviously, where it was advertised a passenger could "eat for a dollar a day" (in the Thirties).
And of course, ATSF's El Capitan. I do not believe it was commonly hitched onto the Super Chief until after the end of our historical period of interest, which now extends to January 1960; and even after the trains started running combined, it (they) would break back into two separate trains in high season. But certainly El Cap (I have been asked not to call it "THE El Cap") was its own being when it incorporated the newer technology of hi-rise cars beginning in, I think, 1956.
This next one is probably wrong, but I'll give it a shot: The Mainstreeter? - a.s.
passengerfan My question is name the Coach only streamliners that operated west of the Mississippi? This does not include trains that operated with parlor cars or sleepers. The list is not very long. Al - in - Stockton
Red River - GN - St. Paul-Grand Forks
City of Las Vegas - UP - Los Angeles-Las Vegas
We will count RDC runs as long as they were named. I don't think McKeen cars will qualify.
The Mainstreeter operated with a slumbercoach up until the end so doesn't count. The Red River, City of Las Vegas, El Capitan are good.
Did the two SP Dallas - Houston trains carry a parlor or where they all coach? They were streamlined, initially with streamlined steam, I think streamlined Pacifics and not 4-8-4's One was the Hustler, and I forget the name of the other. Only two consists were required, since a round trip each day was possible. Sunbeam?
Was the Zepherette name of the Sacramento - Ogden RDC that the WP operated an official name?
I'll add the Starlight between San Francisco and Los Angeles on SP and the San Diegans between San Diego and Los Angeles on ATSF.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'll add the Starlight between San Francisco and Los Angeles on SP and the San Diegans between San Diego and Los Angeles on ATSF.
passengerfan CSSHEGEWISCH I'll add the Starlight between San Francisco and Los Angeles on SP and the San Diegans between San Diego and Los Angeles on ATSF. The Starlight actually operated with a Parlor and later a sleeper. The San Diegans is correct. So was the Zephyrette answered earlier. By the way so was the City of Salina I forgot to acknowledge earlier. I can think of at least three more. The Sunbeam and Hustler both operated with a Parlor car. Al - in - Stockton
Does the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al
al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al
No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day.
By the way the RED RIVER is disqualified as it was not a coach only streamliner the Observation of this train was a dining parlor car named RED RIVER.
passengerfanal-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton
The IC's Land of Corn (west of the Mississippi, in Iowa)
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm passengerfan al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton The IC's Land of Corn (west of the Mississippi, in Iowa)
passengerfan al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton
Here are four more I found
El Pasoan AT&SF Albuquerque - El Paso
Cascadian GN Seattle - Spokane
AuRoRa ARR Anchorage - Fairbanks
Caribou Dayliner N. Vancouver - Prince George
I don't know who answered the most so figure it out for yourselves and that person ask the next question.
From prior post: "I don't know who answered the most so figure it out for yourselves and that person ask the next question."
Is it possible that railwayman, Carl and any others who contributed right answers can give Schlimm "first refusal" on the opp'y to ask the next question? Y'all decide - al-in-chgo
Didn't the Carribou Daylight actually have two classes, and does deluxe coach still qualify as coach? As I remember, regular seating was in straight-back seats while deluxe gave you reclining seats and a complimentary meal. Does that still qualify as coach?
The Caribou Dayliner definitely had two classes when I rode it in 1993. First class was known as "Caribou Class" and occupied the passenger section of the only RDC-2 (or was it and RDC-3? I forget) and part of the baggage section was used as a small service buffet/galley. The car had reclining seats, overhead luggage bins, a la airlines, and a car attendent. Meals were included in the price of the ticket.
First class was available in only one direction each day, as they owned only one RDC with baggage space. I road to Lillouet in coach class (only class available N/B) and first class south.
Nice ride.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
AWP290 The Caribou Dayliner definitely had two classes when I rode it in 1993. First class was known as "Caribou Class" and occupied the passenger section of the only RDC-2 (or was it and RDC-3? I forget) and part of the baggage section was used as a small service buffet/galley. The car had reclining seats, overhead luggage bins, a la airlines, and a car attendent. Meals were included in the price of the ticket. First class was available in only one direction each day, as they owned only one RDC with baggage space. I road to Lillouet in coach class (only class available N/B) and first class south. Nice ride. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
I am sitting here watching the football game and answering your post at the same time the game is now in overtime.
passengerfan AWP290 The Caribou Dayliner definitely had two classes when I rode it in 1993. First class was known as "Caribou Class" and occupied the passenger section of the only RDC-2 (or was it and RDC-3? I forget) and part of the baggage section was used as a small service buffet/galley. The car had reclining seats, overhead luggage bins, a la airlines, and a car attendent. Meals were included in the price of the ticket. First class was available in only one direction each day, as they owned only one RDC with baggage space. I road to Lillouet in coach class (only class available N/B) and first class south. Nice ride. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA You are absolutely right and I of all people should know better as I rode the train fom North Vancouver to Prince George twice, once when it was PG&E and the second time BCRail. I still think it was one of the most magnificent trips for scenery in North America. I rode the train round trip after spending a day in Prince George the first time and the second I took the Rupert Rocket from Prince George to Prince Rupert and took the BC Ferry to where I took the RDC trip to Victoria and then on to the mainland by ferry. That was kind of a circle tour. I am sitting here watching the football game and answering your post at the same time the game is now in overtime. Al - in - Stockton
How many streamlined Observations of all types were operated by Amtrak?
passengerfan Rather than let the post die I will throw a quick question out there. How many streamlined Observations of all types were operated by Amtrak?
Rather than let the post die I will throw a quick question out there.
1 -5 db obs lounge (NYC)
7 - obs lounge (ACL)
2 - obs lounge (FEC)
5 - obs lounge (SAL)
1 - obs coach (SAL)
2 - obs coach (NYC)
3 - obs diner (C&O)
4 - obs dome sleeper (CB&Q)
3 - obs dome parlor (CB&Q)
1 - obs dome parlor (WAB)
As to naming the all coach streamliners that ran west of the Mississippi, I checked back, and it seems that Dave had two correct answers--Zephyrette and City of Salina.
Johnny
Deggesty passengerfan Rather than let the post die I will throw a quick question out there. How many streamlined Observations of all types were operated by Amtrak? I found the following information in Railway Passenger Car Annual Volume VI 1984: 1 -5 db obs lounge (NYC) 7 - obs lounge (ACL) 2 - obs lounge (FEC) 5 - obs lounge (SAL) 1 - obs coach (SAL) 2 - obs coach (NYC) 3 - obs diner (C&O) 4 - obs dome sleeper (CB&Q) 3 - obs dome parlor (CB&Q) 1 - obs dome parlor (WAB) As to naming the all coach streamliners that ran west of the Mississippi, I checked back, and it seems that Dave had two correct answers--Zephyrette and City of Salina. Johnny
Your list is only 29 I have 47 that were owned by Amtrak at one time or another. None were ever considered for HEP and all were either sold or scrapped. If you want a list I will print it out for anyone who wants one.
Dave your question.
Name all premier streamliners in the 1948-1956 era that had a backup move during their regular passenger carrying travel between end-ponts. This does not count equipment dropped or picked up to serve branchline points. This does not count self-propelled mu cars, specifically RDC's or electric mu's. A premier streamliner need not have sleepers but must at least have food service that is better than a strolling cart.
A backup move can either be with the entire train running backwards and a trainman or conductor in the rear car with either or both brake control and control of the commmunications whistle, or a switcher coupling on behind the rear car and pulling the whole train backwards.
Complete change of direction with the locomotive running around the train or swapping of locomotives should be listed separtely. I am aware of a city where this happend regularly.
passengerfan schlimm passengerfan al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton The IC's Land of Corn (west of the Mississippi, in Iowa) The IC Land O'Corn very good. Here are four more I found El Pasoan AT&SF Albuquerque - El Paso Cascadian GN Seattle - Spokane AuRoRa ARR Anchorage - Fairbanks Caribou Dayliner N. Vancouver - Prince George I don't know who answered the most so figure it out for yourselves and that person ask the next question. Al - in - Stockton
One more (which I didn't see mentioned):
SP's Redwood- the RDC train which ran from Willits to Eureka up to the beginning of Amtrak.
I'll start with IC's "Green Diamond", which had to back into the Springfield station.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'll start with IC's "Green Diamond", which had to back into the Springfield station.
SAL's Silver Comet backed into or out of Atlanta. Southern's Southerner backed into or out of Atlanta and Birmingham (for that matter, Birmingham's terminal was a stub station for all through Southern trains). The Tennessean, New Royal Palm and Royal Palm backed into Chattanooga. NC&StL's Georgian and Dixie Flagler/Dixieland backed into or out of Chattanooga (both Chattanooga stations were stub). Also, the Dixie Flagler/Dixieland had a backup move in Atlanta. KCS's Southern Belle backed into or out of Alexandria, and Shreveport, La., Texarkana, Ark.-Tex., and Joplin, Mo. Except for the ACL-FEC through trains, ACL and SAL trains had a backup move in Jacksonville. SAL's Silver Meteor and Silver Star each had a backup move in Tampa on the way to/from St. Petersburg; also the Venice cars had a backup move in Tampa. The ACL's West Coast Champion's Sarasota cars had a backup move in Tampa, and the Naples cars had a backup move in Lakeland. When they went into Ogden, the City of Los Angeles and City of St. Louis had a backup move.
When the City of St. Louis went into Cheyenne, was the engine run around the train in Cheyenne and Denver?
If you count backup moves at the end of the run, all trains backed into New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal: Humming Bird, Crescent, Southerner, City of New Orleans, Panama Limited, Southern Belle, Louisiana Eagle, Sunset Limited, and, perhaps more.
Edit: having re-read the question, I have removed the Sarasota, Venice, and Naples cars.
My two cents worth. I am not giving answers but ideas
1. Think of the places were trains had to back in. I'll city Fargo, ND. St Louis, Mo . Also (don't know if this counts) during the Amtrak era the Southwest Limited(Super Chief/El Capitan) had to be split to fit into Union Station. I suspect this may have also been the case at LaSalle St(?) Also Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal(LAUPT?) was also a stub(I think) . San Diego. (Santa Fe's San Diego's, also The Oakland Mole (on Southern Pacific) was a stub terminal and had some thru trains. Jacksonville Union Station(?) was a stub if I remember a piece in Classic Trains several issues back. Also New Orleans Union Station(?) Boston both North Station & South Station are stubs.
Was Richmond(Va) a stub? Charleston, WV,
Rgds IGN
The Southland, Flamingo, and the Dixie Flyer all performed back-up moves in Atlanta, coming in, as they did, to Union Station on the L&N and departing from Terminal Station on the CofG. The Flyer changed routes in 1952, going over to the ACL south of Atlanta, but this still involved a back-up move as the only tracks going through, not terminating at, Union Station were those of the Georgia Railroad.
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