The South Shore may have picked up a Niagra Junction switcher and rewired it for 1500V. Most migrated to Grand Central terminal to replace the old S-1's, but one could have gone to the South Shore. Other possiblities would have a locomotive from the Sacramento Northern, Piedmont and Northern, Niagra St. Catherins and Toronto, or Illinois Terminal. Or the North Shore!
The only secondhand equipment on South Shore from an interurban was wire car 1100 and express cars 503-504 from the Indiana Railroad. Consider a Class 1 as the original owner.
And was not the wire car from the same series as the two express cars? All three were the three heavyweights (or medium-weights) that were not converted for one-man operation but remodelled to include an RPO section?
The Niagra Junction was a switching subsidiary of the New York Central, so I assume my first answer was correct. And it may have gone into NYC service before going to the South Shore.
The wire car and the express cars were originally IRR 375-377, not sure on the renumbering. South Shore's two steeplecab switchers (1004-1005, IIRC) went to Niagara Junction since they were too light for South Shore but nothing from Niagara Junction went to South Shore. NYC is the correct Class 1, though.
Before you ask about these, South Shore's two boxcab locomotives from the pre-Insull AC electrification went to St. Clair Tunnel Co.
With all the east coast rail experts on line. Has anyone know the correct answer to this question but me? What was the name of the railroad of the first railroad accident in the USA? Where did it happen in the USA?
CSSHEGEWISCHStill looking for a response on my South Shore question, I didn't think that it was that tough.
During the 1960s didn't the South Shore rebuild some former NYC electrics for freight service? IIRC they were numbered into the 700 series.
That is correct, and you beat me to it. Once I saw that NYC was correct, I remembered the conversion of some R-1 electric freight locomotive (freight because they lacked train heating boilers, although they were used in passenger service in emergencies) from 600V dc to 1500V dc for South Shore operation.
DSO17 CSSHEGEWISCHStill looking for a response on my South Shore question, I didn't think that it was that tough. During the 1960s didn't the South Shore rebuild some former NYC electrics for freight service? IIRC they were numbered into the 700 series.
Close enough. South Shore purchased ten R-2 motors from NYC and rebuilt six of them in 1955-1958 as 701-706. In 1966 or 1967, an additional R-2 was rebuilt as 707, South Shore's last electric. One or two of the R-2's purchased by South Shore also spent some time in the Detroit River Tunnel electric zone. The rebuilding involved conversion from 600 VDC to 1500 VDC and from third-rail to overhead current collection. DS017, you get to ask the next question.
CSSHEGEWISCHClose enough. South Shore purchased ten R-2 motors from NYC and rebuilt six of them in 1955-1958 as 701-706. In 1966 or 1967, an additional R-2 was rebuilt as 707, South Shore's last electric. One or two of the R-2's purchased by South Shore also spent some time in the Detroit River Tunnel electric zone. The rebuilding involved conversion from 600 VDC to 1500 VDC and from third-rail to overhead current collection. DS017, you get to ask the next question.
I don't have a question ready. Somebody else jump in with a question.
What year was the first electric locomotive of New York Central built?
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=958926
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/nyc100.jpg
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=99341&t=w
I do not have access to any data, but my memory says the first prototype and experimental S-1 was built in 1902 and tested and modified extensively before the GCT electrification was opened a few years later. The electrification was opened before GCT was completed, and at first the New Haven did use NYC DC power into GCT before completing its own first electrification to New Rochelle in 1910. At least that is what I remember. I think the production S-1's were built in 1904.
Dave, it's your turn if you got a question. 1904 NY Times article about test run:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9B02E2D61E3BE631A25750C1A9679D946597D6CF
Most readers know that the Boston Revere Beach and Lynn (in Boston "The narrow guage") had its wood-bodied open platform coaches converted into electric mu cars by General Electric in 1930, some time after construction of wood passenger cars had been replaced by steel. But after this conversion, there were two NEW transit system routes opened that opened exclusively with wood-bodied open-platform mu cars, both standard gauge.
What two lines were they, and when did they open?
Why the use of wood open-platform cars?
What was the source of these cars?
What electrical-mechanical changes were needed to fit them for their new assignment?
What is the current status, operation if any, and equipment if any on these routes today?
What if any of this wood equipment has survived and where?
Please do not answer if you know of only one of the two routes.
A hint seems in order since there are no takers so far. Here are two hints:
One of the then new routes currently does see electric passenger service over the route.
One of then new routes was east coast and one west coast.
Further hint: Both routes opened during WWII.
Deleted as it only covered one of the two routes. Sorry I did not read the whole entry.
Rgds ign
PS to D.Klepper. sent you the text of this.
Please post your complete reply. You are correct. Except that they were all second-hand 2nd Avenue el cars, not 3rd Avenue, which continiued running until well after WWII. You picked the correct two lines in your private corresponance to me. You might do a little more research on the one still operating and see how it changed. The original trains were only two-cars long in regular service!
And then post a new question. Thank you for your reply.
OK the answer was the Shipyard Railway, which most of you knew already, and the New York subway system's Dyre Avenue Line, which opened with two-car gate-car trains from Dyar Avenue to one of the two platforms of the old New York Westchester and Boston station at East 180th Street for a free transfer through the old existing walkway to the Lexington Avenue White Plains Avenue line (on an elevated structure). Rather than posting a new question, can I please give that honor to any of you who can complete the details of the equipment and subsequent operations of both lines?
The Dyer Avenue lined was opened as a shuttle running from the southbound NYW&B platform at E180th Street (free transfer to the adjacent IRT elevated structure station via an existing passengeway) north to Dyer Avenue. The middle express tracks had been removed except for some layup tracks north of E180, the 11000V AC catenary had been replaced by IRT standard third rail, and the signals were of the IND-BMT standard, not the IRT standard. (Diverging route green over yellow, not red over green, and straight route green over green not green over red). The initial few days of operation was with three-car open-platform wood gate cars salvaged from the 2nd Avenue Elelvated, whose Queens line shut down about the same time, the line to the Bronx having ended in 1940. Lack of patronage meant consist reduction to two cars very quickly. There was one connecting crossover north of the 180th Street station, and this became the northbound track when through service was finally established sometime after WWII. (Date, anyone?) Before through service was established, the track layout on the elevated structure north of 180th Street was reconfigured, and a flyover bridge track installed to take southbound trains off the Dyer Avenue line and allow them to access the southbound local or center bi-direictional express track at E160 without conflicting with northbound trains to 241St and White Plains Avenue. Steel car service started sometime before through service was established, with classic Low-V IRT standard prewar cars, 4 or 5-car trains, if I remember, since the area served built up rapidly. The elevated open platform cars had to have subway type third rail shoes attached, replacing their gravity type elevated shoes. I don't know of any other modifications to these cars. The idea of using part of the old NYW&B RofW was suggested by the Bronx Borough President as an alternative to the expense of the planned extension of the D-train east from its 205th Street terminal.
If someone else wishes to relate the history of the Shipyard railway, I'll be happy to let him or her ask the next question.
Shipyard Railway was opened during WWII (I think during 1942) by connecting together streetcar and little-used and unused frreight tracks, to provide efficient transportaton for Bay Area shipyard workers. Regular 600V dc trolley wire provided the power. Second Avenue Elevated cars made the transcontinental trip on their own wheels. Pantographs from scrapped SP-Bay Area and SN interurban cars replaced third rail shoes, and the trains were operated by Key System operators. Special high-platform stations were constructed. They did not operate over the Bay Bridge into SF. At least one car is preserved at the Rio Vista Junction museum.
NEW QUESTION: It is 1947 and I wish to move box car, or express car, from South Station to North Station in Boston. What are the shortest and next-shortest routes and what power (locomotives) would they be using?
The Union Freight Railway was a freight street railway, like Manufacturers Railway in New Haven and Bush Terminal and South Brooklyn in Brooklyn, New York. But unlike the latter three, it never used trolley wire, but used steam tank engines, something like the B&O Dockside Switchers, for most of its life. It ran under the Atlantic Avenue Elevated from South to North Station. connecting the NYNH&H and B&A/NYC with the B&M and served many docks, warehouses, and small industries with private sidings along Atlantic Avenue with a double track line that merged into single track for Causeway Street, partly shared with BostonEl/MTA tracks. IN 1947 Alco produce a movie of its complete conversion to Alco diesel switcher power.
The Grand Junction Railway was totally owned by the Boston and Albany in turn owned by the NYC System and ran from the main B&A freight yard next to the Charles River near Brighton to the docks at East Boston adjacent to where the BRB&L narrow gauge terminated, and where the B&M also had docks. From Sommerville to East Boston its tracks were adjacent to those of the Boston and Maine and it still has interchange with the B&M in Sommerville, a CSX-PanAm interchange point. When an undergraduate at MIT (it boarders the campus in Cambridge) I would see a variety of steam power, including six wheel switchers, Mikados, and even occasionally a suburban 4-6-4T. It was dieselized about 1951 or 1952.
New Question: What, where, when, and why the first large Class I abandonment.
I would say that the first large Class I abandonment was the original SP main line to Promontory around the north shore of the Great Salt Lake. It was abandoned in 1942 as part of the scrap metal drive for WW2.
Wrong, I am talking about a much earlier abandonment and it was the complete railroad with the usual subsequent short line operation of just small pieces connecting with other class I's.
Hint: An old issue of TRAINS had the complete story, with the cover showing the abandoned ROW.
Second Hint. An important connection (extremely important connection) was joint with another class I and is part of a class I today. With passenger service.
Third Hint. While it existed, doing interline freight and passesnger service, its excusion trains of a particular type were better known that its regular passenger service.
Sounds like the Colorado Midland Railway to me. Ceased operations in 1918, officially abandoned in 1921, and was reputed to the the largest abandonment in the US until that of the New York, Ontario & Western in 1957. (The Missouri & Arkansas may have been a mile or two longer, but I don't know for certain.)
The Wildflower Excursions were better known than the regularly scheduled passenger trains.
A truly fascinating railroad.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
AWP290Sounds like the Colorado Midland Railway to me.
Seems to me like that for the passengers would have to be back east somewhere.
Obviously this is not what you had in mind, but Amtrak's California Zephyr still operates between Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction over the what was the former jointly owned Rio Grande Junction Railway. This was the current service I was thinking of when I made that comment.
As I said, obviously what you had in mind.
Bob Hanson
Bob Hanson had all the right answers and should ask the next question. But thre reason the line was abandoned is also interesting. This occured while USA railroads were under control of the Feds. Initially, they routed very little traffic over the CM (which in fact was a logical extension of the Rock's line to Colorado Springs for transcontinental traffic). Most went via the UP through Ogden or the D&RG via Pueblo. (The Dotsero connection was still ten years in the future.) CM's management complained and was rewarded with a deluge of traffic that the line could not handle, similar to redent "meltowns." Since the line could not handle the traffic without tremendous delays, it was embargoed and then went out of business. The Midland Terminal Railroad was incorporated to operate the Colorado Springs - Leaville portion which it did until sometime after WWII.
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