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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 23, 2009 9:36 PM

Bob, even though I knew that Beauvoir came into Jefferson Davis' possession after the War, I did not think of it until Mike posted his comment. Still, it was not easy to get from Warren county, Mississippi, to Montgomery, Alabama, in 1861. Today, you just get on I-20, whiz over to Alabama, and then take US 80 into Montgomery. I'm not up on what railroads were extant then--but even in our time, there was no direct passenger service from Meridian to Montgomery, and the bridge road, Meridian and Bigbee River has come upon hard times. But, you have the right idea: what route did the only President of the Confederacy travel to get to his inauguration?

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:00 AM

Months ago Mark asked, "What railroad is recognized as the first standard gauge road in the deep south and what were its end point terminals?" (West Feliciana RR from Woodville to Bayou Sara). I remember a map of that. Squinting real hard at the words on a peninsula just south of New Carthage, Louisiana, it says "Col. Joe Davis" and "Jefferson Davis" and "hurricane." That was where Brierfield was. Second link is a short biography with info about Brierfield and Beauvoir.

http://www.usgwarchives.org/maps/louisiana/statemap/msrmilbdtobatonrouge1862.jpg

http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/articles/287/jefferson-davis-1808-1889

Photo of Union soldiers at Brierfield

http://www.oldcourthouse.org/APhotographicTour_files/image045.jpg

Photo of Jefferson Davis

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39000/3b39000r.jpg

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Posted by AWP290 on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:11 AM

Mike -

My source, Railroads of the Confederacy, by John Stover, says that Davis rode the Mobile & Ohio RR from Mobile to Corinth.

If you have a more reliable source, so be it.

Your question, sir.

 Bob

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Posted by AWP290 on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:16 AM

Johnny -

I concede that Mike's source is probably more accurate than mine (see my earlier post.)  My source says he rode the M&O to Corinth, MS.  The M&O was completed between Mobile and Columbus, KY, just prior to the outbreak of hostilities and was opened as far as Corinth some time before that, so it was an available, if not utilized, route.

Mike's question.

Bob

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:08 PM

Name 5 trains of the Lehigh Valley Railroad at Penn Station in New York.

Bob, I sure don't know if the Alabama Dept. of Archives & History page is more reliable than your source. Perhaps he could have caught the M&O at Meridian.  The line from Vicksburg looks about complete (as of June 1861) on the CSA Railroads map. In any case, Davis wrote of waiting for a train in Jackson, which jibes better with northbound unless he stopped there for a purposeful visit and not just to change trains.

http://www.csa-railroads.com/images/Western%20Railroads.pdf

http://www.csa-railroads.com/images/Eastern%20Railroads.pdf

Mike

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Posted by adkdivfan on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:31 AM

Asa Packer, John Wilkes, Black Diamond, Maple Leaf, Star

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:02 PM

Adkdivfan, yes your turn. PRR pulled the trains in from Newark after 1917. The Black Diamond was the flagship. The Star and one other train, the Major, also went to Buffalo.  Asa Packer founded the railroad, his train went to Wilkes-Barre, as did the John Wilkes, who Wilkes-Barre is partly named for. The Maple Leaf was more or less a Canadian National train.  I wish I had a picture of the Black Diamond on Alco power.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv530a.jpg

Mike

Edit: some PA's for Henry

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T29/T2951/T2951-med.jpeg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/lv/lv607as.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv612.jpg

http://www.lvrr.com/index.php?album=%2FB-LV%20Diesel%20Engines%2F&image=LV-608_Stripless.jpg&resize=800x800

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/3/0/4730.1166025600.jpg

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:40 PM

In the 50's my father would have to go into Easton, PA from North Jersey and in the summer my brother and I would tag along...we'd brown bag lunch and go to the LV station and eat while watching the westbound Diamond and the eastbound Leaf...

Pic you posted, Mike, is of the FA's and not the PA's....but both were impresseve and brute looking and actually did yeoman service for the LV.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:12 AM

Next question please!

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:27 AM

Thanks Mike...I grew up along the DL&W and thus a DL&W fan and an E8 fan.  But those PA's certainly had lines and power to turn heads and move trains: Erie, LV, Sante Fe, NYC that I can recall most.  Even had a cab ride in the D&H PA's over Belden Hill and through the tunnel!  Great machines!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by adkdivfan on Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:20 AM

There were a number of passenger trains named "City of....". Name as many as you can, with railroads & routes.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:25 PM

City of Miami - Chicago-Miami IC/CofG/ACL/FEC

City of New Orleans - Chicago-New Orleans IC

City of Memphis - Nashville-Memphis NC&StL

City of Kansas City - St. Louis-Kansas City WAB

City of St Louis - St, Louis-Los Angeles WAB/UP

City of Los Angeles - Chicago-Los Angeles CNW/UP

City of San Francisco - Chicago-San Francisco CNW/UP/SP

City of Portland - Chiocago-Portland CNW/UP

City of Denver - Chicago-Denver CNW/UP

Mark

Addendum: City of Milwaukee 400 - Chicago-Milwaukee CNW

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:44 PM

Shame on you, Mark. SmileI just looked them up, and you omitted two of the famous--the City of Cleveland, which the NKP ran between Chicago and Cleveland, and City of Las Vegas, which UP ran between LA and Las Vegas (I would have missed both if I had not looked through a 1958 Guide). Incidentally, it was possible to spend all night in the "City of Cleveland" (5 DB lounge car) when riding the City of Cleveland.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, November 27, 2009 12:36 AM

Johnny,

The City of Las Vegas is a new one to me. I never knew the UP had a train with that name. Now that you mention it I do vaguely remember the City of Cleveland. IIRC it was a truncated version of the old Nickle Plate Ltd which formerly ran between Chicago and Buffalo.

Mark

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, November 27, 2009 7:42 AM
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Posted by adkdivfan on Friday, November 27, 2009 9:13 AM

Mark wins! The City of Las Vegas was later known as the Las Vegas Holiday Special. The Nickel Plate Ltd became the City of Cleveland eastbound and the City of Chicago westbound; it did continue to operate Chicago-Buffalo and the route was not truncated. I do not know why Cleveland was honored instead of Buffalo; may have been due to Cleveland serving as NKP's headquarters city. The name change occurred several years before the N&W takeover. The City of Kansas City name migrated to the UP after, first, the N&W discontinued its version, and later, discontinued its end of the City of St. Louis. In the last years before Amtrak N&W cut the Blue Bird back to a Chicago-Decatur run (replacing St. Louis) and called it the City of Decatur. At roughly the same time UP (and partner Milwaukee Road) consolidated all of its Cities into one train between Chicago and North Platte NE; the combined train was known informally as the "City of Everywhere".

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:50 PM

Here are two more City trains not mentioned:

- City of Decatur - Illinois Terminal -  St. Louis-Decatur

- City of Mexico - MP/TP/NdeM - St. Louis-Mexico City

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:02 PM

What was the last 2' gauge railroad to operate commercially in the US? Tourist and amusement park lines exclided.

Mark

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Posted by AWP290 on Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:14 PM

The Bridgton & Harrison Railroad, in Maine.  I think it quit in 1941 or '42.

Bob Hanson,Loganville, GA

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:28 PM

Sorry, Bob, but this RR remained in operation until quite a later date.

Mark

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Posted by AWP290 on Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:29 PM

You are referring to common carriers, I presume.

 Edaville lasted much longer (it wasn't started until later) but it was not a common carrier - though it was part of a commercial operation - Ocean Spray cranberries.

 Bob

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:05 PM

Not the Edaville either. This railroad was a stand alone operation not a part of a larger company.

Mark

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:33 AM

I will say that it's the Chicago Tunnel Company, which quit in 1959.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 29, 2009 9:14 AM

Bridgeton and Harrison, which abandoned its Bridgeton - Harrison line early but continued operating Harrison - Saco Junction, the latter the connection with Maine Central.  I think this was abandoned in 1940.   The Monson Railroad may have lasted much longer, but I question if it was truly a common carrier, as my memory says it was owned by its only shipper.

 

Saw the abandoned roadbed, some ties still in place, between Bridgeton and Harrison when I attended summer camp at Ironwood, on Long Lake, north of Sebago Lake in the Bridgton area, summers 1948 and 1949.  Campers were taken by bus from the Portland, ME, RR station.  But on one return trip we road parlor on the Yankee Clipper from Boston and had an I-5 4-6-4 up front to New Haven.

 

Sorry , I should have checked the preceding posts.   Of course the Chicago tunnel operated afterward!

I am not certain when the Monson quit. It nmay have outlasted the Chicago Tunnel, quitting at the end of WWII. .

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:05 PM

Paul,

Light up your stogie and ask the next question, The Chicago Tunnel Company operated from 1906 to 1958 hauling primarily parcels, coal, ashes and building construction excavation material on 60 miles of 2' gauge tracks under the streets of the city. They had a fleet of about 3000 cars and 149 mine style electric locomotives that drew 250v DC current from overhead wires by means of trolley poles. The following site is most informative and full of pictures of the tunnels and rolling stock.

http://users.ameritech.net/chicagotunnel/tunnel1.html

Mark

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, November 29, 2009 2:47 PM

I was watching what I believe to be the movie Grand Central Station on TV years ago and was totally enamored with scenes of Chicago Tunnel tracks and equipment along with the L chase!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, November 30, 2009 2:06 PM

I was aware of the Chicago Tunnel Company prior to the flood in 1994 and already had a copy of "40 Feet Below" at the time.  On to the next question:  What was the last straight electric locomotive to be placed in service by the South Shore Line? 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 2:52 AM

After the Illinois Central dieselized its Chicago Lake Front FREIGHT electrification, after WWII, it sold (some?) of its steeple-cab electrics to the South Shore.   I believe this was after the South Shore bought its "Little Joes", the GE's originally built for Russia.  So, even thought these locomotives were much older than the Joes, they came to the South Shore later.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 6:35 AM

Not quite.  The IC steeplecabs were sold to South Shore by way of Iron & Steel Products in 1941.  You are in the right area, the correct answer is a secondhand locomotive.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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