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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 1:55 PM
wanswheel

Mark, is the route more than 500 miles?

(3) No

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 1:54 PM

passengerfan

Did the train operate in a North-South direction? 

(2) Yes

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 1:40 PM

Mark, is the route more than 500 miles?

Johnny, I hope to learn what city on the NC&StL map the sleepers were set out for.

http://railga.com/ncsl95map.html

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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 1:02 PM

Did the train operate in a North-South direction? 

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 11:55 AM

passengerfan

Did the train operate east of the Mississippi River?

(1) Yes

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 10:40 AM

KCSfan

Deggesty

I thought of throwing an oddity of its line in--in its course, the train crossed one state five times, a second state four times, and a third state once, all in less than about fifty miles. Would this have made it easier, or would it have made it more difficult?

Johnny

That would have made it more difficult for me. Because it is only 134 rail miles between Atlanta and Chattanooga, I had a hard time imagining there would be a sleeper running only between the two cities. The same is true of the Chattanooga - Nashville route which is only 152 miles in length.

On to the next one. You have 20 questions to identify the train I have in mind, the end points of its route and the RR(s) over which it ran.

Mark

Mark

Did the train operate east of the Mississippi River?

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 10:01 AM

Deggesty

I thought of throwing an oddity of its line in--in its course, the train crossed one state five times, a second state four times, and a third state once, all in less than about fifty miles. Would this have made it easier, or would it have made it more difficult?

Johnny

That would have made it more difficult for me. Because it is only 134 rail miles between Atlanta and Chattanooga, I had a hard time imagining there would be a sleeper running only between the two cities. The same is true of the Chattanooga - Nashville route which is only 152 miles in length.

On to the next one. You have 20 questions to identify the train I have in mind, the end points of its route and the RR(s) over which it ran.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 9:03 AM

KCSfan

Johnny, I'm going to take a stab at identifying the train. NC&StL No's. 3 & 4 running between Nashville and Atlanta. The leased RR over which it ran was the State of Georgia owned Western & Atlantic between Chattanooga and Atlanta.

Mark

P.S.I can't find any record of setout sleepers at Chattanooga so I'm just guessing that they ran at an earlier time than any of the OG's which I have to reference.

Mark, you are right on; it was the NC&StL's (and then the L&N's) overnight train between Nashville and Atlanta. The 1916 Guide I have shows local sleepers between both Nashville and Atlanta and Chattanooga. The Chattanooga-Atlanta local was dropped first (I don't know when), and then the Nashville-Chattanooga local was dropped (again, I don't know when).

In 1893, the train had a through sleeper between St. Louis and Atlanta, and carried the name Quickstep.

I thought of throwing an oddity of its line in--in its course, the train crossed one state five times, a second state four times, and a third state once, all in less than about fifty miles. Would this have made it easier, or would it have made it more difficult?

Johnny

Johnny

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 11:04 PM

Johnny, I'm going to take a stab at identifying the train. NC&StL No's. 3 & 4 running between Nashville and Atlanta. The leased RR over which it ran was the State of Georgia owned Western & Atlantic between Chattanooga and Atlanta.

Mark

P.S.I can't find any record of setout sleepers at Chattanooga so I'm just guessing that they ran at an earlier time than any of the OG's which I have to reference.

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 10:00 PM

Re:  "#7 Yes. Come on, somebody make a wrong guess.

Johnny" 

 

No WAG from me, Johnny, not this time.  My recent ones have been poor, as you know. 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:55 PM
wanswheel

Is Atlanta the name of any locality mentioned thus far (an end point, a near mid point, a city cars are set out for, a city in the railroad's name)?

#7 Yes. Come on, somebody make a wrong guess.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:53 PM

al-in-chgo

 

Did the train operate, in whole or in part, over one or more of the predecessor railroads of today's CSX? 

 

#6 Yes.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:46 PM

Is Atlanta the name of any locality mentioned thus far (an end point, a near mid point, a city cars are set out for, a city in the railroad's name)?

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:18 PM

 

Did the train operate, in whole or in part, over one or more of the predecessor railroads of today's CSX? 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:28 PM
wanswheel

Is the train in the South?

#5 Yes, definitely.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:28 PM

KCSfan

Did the name of the RR in whose timetables the schedule of the train appeared contain the name of at least one city?

Mark

#4 Yes, indeed.

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:10 PM

Is the train in the South?

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 7:34 PM

Did the name of the RR in whose timetables the schedule of the train appeared contain the name of at least one city?

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 4:36 PM
wanswheel

Is the train ever at mountainous elevation?

#3 Yes, but few people who are not familiar with the area would think of them as mountains.

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 3:53 PM

Is the train ever at mountainous elevation?

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 2:25 PM

passengerfan

Was this train a North - South train?

Al

#2 No, Al, it did not run North to South (or South to North).

Johnny

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 2:03 PM

Was this train a North - South train?

Al

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:48 AM

KCSfan

Did the subject train operate east of the Mississippi River?

Mark

#1. Yes, Mark, it was east of the Mississippi.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 2, 2009 10:21 PM

Did the subject train operate east of the Mississippi River?

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 2, 2009 7:16 PM

KCSfan
The next question is yours, Johnny.

I am thinking of train that had no name for much of its existence. It was an overnight train, with Pullman service from end to end during most of its existence, and, for some of its existence, setout sleepers from both origins to a city a little bit removed from its midpoint.

Although the timetable of one road shows the entire schedule, it was actually operated over two roads, which met at the point where sleepers were set out; one of the roads (still owned by its original owner) was leased by the other.

Edit: Yes, you have twenty opportunities to tell us where this train ran (road and end points).

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 2, 2009 7:03 PM
wanswheel

The Florida Sunbeam resembles the 1920s Suwanee River Special, which at present I understand to be a Big Four train, apart from being a Southern train, with sections from Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland combined at Cincinnati, and with Seaboard at Hampton to Tampa and St. Pete.

Yes. In January of 1930, it also carried a Denver-Tampa sleeper, which was handled by the Rock Island west of KC, and by the Frisco between KC and Birmingham. The schedule that season is interesting, in that there was a lengthy layover in Atlanta, northbound, for the Midwest cars, and it was a day train from the Midwest origins to Cincinnati, and an overnight train from Cincinnati to the Midwest destinations.

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, November 2, 2009 6:40 PM

The Florida Sunbeam resembles the 1920s Suwanee River Special, which at present I understand to be a Big Four train, apart from being a Southern train, with sections from Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland combined at Cincinnati, and with Seaboard at Hampton to Tampa and St. Pete.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 2, 2009 5:43 PM

Sorry to keep you all waiting but I've been out and away from the computer all afternoon.

Bingo! We have a winner. Yes it was the Florida Sunbeam a winter season, steam powered, heavyweight train running between Chicago and Miami and St. Petersburg over the NYC, Southern and SAL.

Some of you probably thought the Sunbeam's nothern terminal was Cincinnati and ruled it out when I answered that it did not originate there. At least prrior to WW2 it ran to/from Chicago and the NYC's Big Four timetables of that era clearly designated it as the Florida Sunbeam. Southbound it ran combined with the Royal Palm's Chi cars to Kankakee where the two split. The Sunbeam ran on to Cincy as Big Four No. x46. The Royal Palm departed Kankakee for Cincy 10 minutes later as Big Four No. 46. Northbound the two ran combined from Cincy to Chi as Big Four No. 35. When this schedule started and how long it lasted I don't know as the only winter month OG I have for the '30's and 40's is the March 1937 issue. The Sunbeam did not run during WW2 but was in service again from 1946 until 1949 when it was replaced by the streamlined New Royal Palm.

At Cincy through cars from/to both Detroit and Cleveland and at least one diner (more likely two) were switched into/out of the Sunbeam. Its consist between Cincy and Florida was 11 Pullmans, at least two coaches, a combine, diner(s), and a baggage car; a total of 17 cars. Because of its size I believe it was doubleheaded over its entire Southern Ry System run. I understand that rather than delay the train while two engines took on coal and water, engine changes were made at Somerset, KY, Oakdale, TN, Chattanooga, Atlanta and probably Cordele and/or Valdosta in GA.

In its entire 328 mile run over the CNO&TP between Cincy and Chattanooga the train made only one station stop, a conditional stop at Lexington to pick up/discharge passengers to and from Florida. I find it remarkable that the duration of the station stops at both Chattanooga and Atlanta was only five minutes each. In order to save time the Sunbeam bypassed Jacksonville and ran over the GS&F Palatka Branch between Valdosta and Hampton, FL. This made it one of only two, IIRC, Florida trains that did not operate via Jax (the other being the Southland).

South of  Hampton the train ran on the mainline rails of the Seaboard. South of Wildwood it ran as two separate trains both having the Sunbeam name with one going to/from Miami and the other to/from St. Petersburg.

The Florida Sunbeam was unique in a number of ways and I always regretted not having a chance to ride it. I did ride its successor, the New Royal Palm in 1950 from Cincy to Jax. I remember being much impressed by the mountain scenery and the many tunnels on the SR's Rat Hole Division.

The next question is yours, Johnny.

Mark

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, November 2, 2009 12:55 PM

 Was an endpoint for this train Jacksonville?

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 2, 2009 11:28 AM

passengerfan

KCSfan

The identiy of this train shouldn't be that hard for you experts so I'm going to give you a bit of a hint.

I believe you got on the wrong track (no pun intended) early in the game.

Mark

What we know it has at least one terminal in Florida.

It ran on the SAL as one of the RRs.

It did not originate in Kansas City

t did not originate Cincinatti

It did not originate in New York

It did not originate in Washington

It was a heavyweight train

It was not the Orange Blossom Special

Did the train originate in Chicago?

 

The only train I know that could fit the bill is the Florida Sunbeam, which had through cars from Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland on the NYC to Cincinnati, thence Southern to Hampton, Fla., and thence SAL to Miami and, in some years, to St. Petersburg.

Johnny

Johnny

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