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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:27 PM

Well the Pioneer Zephyr trainset is the obvious one that comes to mind. It originally ran between KC and Lincoln, NE. For a time it was paired with the Mark Twain Zephyr and the duo ran between Chicago and Denver as the Advanced Denver Zephyr. I believe it also saw service for a brief time on the Chicago to Minneapolis/St. Paul route. Its last route prior to being retired was IIIRC between Galesburg, IL and Lincoln.

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:03 PM

 

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:02 PM

KCSfan

I'm hard pressed to think of any GN, NP or Frisco trains that meet the requirements. A Santa Fe trainset comes to mind as a possibility but I still think it was a Burlington train, so my next question is, was it a CB&Q train?

Mark

Si 7 down 13 to go.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:53 PM

I'm hard pressed to think of any GN, NP or Frisco trains that meet the requirements. A Santa Fe trainset comes to mind as a possibility but I still think it was a Burlington train, so my next question is, was it a CB&Q train?

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:24 PM

KCSfan

Dang, I thought sure it was the MTZ since it fits your original question and all the prior answers. Guess I need to narrow it down a bit more before guessing a specific train.

Was the RR that operated the train a predecessor of today's BNSF?

Mark

 

Si 6 down 14 to go.
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:11 AM

Dang, I thought sure it was the MTZ since it fits your original question and all the prior answers. Guess I need to narrow it down a bit more before guessing a specific train.

Was the RR that operated the train a predecessor of today's BNSF?

Mark

 

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:00 AM

KCSfan

Al, I'll have a try at answering. Was it the CB&Q's Mark Twain Zephyr?

It originally ran between St. Louis and Burlington, IA. Its next assignment was a brief one running as the Advanced Denver Zephyr between Chicago and Denver. Following that it ran as one of the Twin Cities Zephyrs between Chicago and Minneapolis.St. Paul. I'm not sure but I think it next was returned to it's original StL-Burlington route running again as the MTZ. This was followed by an assignment running between St.L and KC, as a joint CB&Q/Alton train named either the MTZ or maybe the Ozark Zephyr. I recall reading somewhere that its last route before being retired was between Galesburg, IL and St. Joe, MO but I can't confirm that from any of the OG's that I have and I don't know what it was named when running in this service.

I'm pretty sure of these routes though I may not have them in the correct order.

Mark 

Mark No 5 down 15 to go.

Al - in - Stockton.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:56 AM

Al, I'll have a try at answering. Was it the CB&Q's Mark Twain Zephyr?

It originally ran between St. Louis and Burlington, IA. Its next assignment was a brief one running as the Advanced Denver Zephyr between Chicago and Denver. Following that it ran as one of the Twin Cities Zephyrs between Chicago and Minneapolis.St. Paul. I'm not sure but I think it next was returned to it's original StL-Burlington route running again as the MTZ. This was followed by an assignment running between St.L and KC, as a joint CB&Q/Alton train named either the MTZ or maybe the Ozark Zephyr. I recall reading somewhere that its last route before being retired was between Galesburg, IL and St. Joe, MO but I can't confirm that from any of the OG's that I have and I don't know what it was named when running in this service.

I'm pretty sure of these routes though I may not have them in the correct order.

Mark 

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:56 AM

KCSfan

 Al,

Was the trainset given different names when it ran on each of its several different routes?

Mark

 

Mark Yes thats 4 down sixteen to go.

Al - in - Stockton 

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:51 AM

 Al,

Was the trainset given different names when it ran on each of its several different routes?

Mark

 

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:40 AM

KCSfan

Were the different routes of this train all in the geographical area between Illinois and the Rockies?

Mark

Mark Yes 3 down 17 to go.
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:37 AM

KCSfan

passengerfan

Deggesty

Al, I take it that you are saying that a particular road used a particular set of equipment over at least three different routes, and, each time, called the schedule by the name assigned to the equipment. Am I right?

Johnny

Thats 2 down 18 to go.

Al - in - Stockton

Geez Al, if you'r going to charge Johnny for that question at least give him a yes or no answer.

Mark

Sorry Johnny the answer was no.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:27 AM

Were the different routes of this train all in the geographical area between Illinois and the Rockies?

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:22 AM

passengerfan

Deggesty

Al, I take it that you are saying that a particular road used a particular set of equipment over at least three different routes, and, each time, called the schedule by the name assigned to the equipment. Am I right?

Johnny

Thats 2 down 18 to go.

Al - in - Stockton

Geez Al, if you'r going to charge Johnny for that question at least give him a yes or no answer.

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 10:25 PM

Deggesty

passengerfan

I am looking for the name of a train the RR that operated that train and at least three of the routes the train was assigned to?

Al - in - Stockton

Gentlemen you have twenty questions starting now. 

Al, I take it that you are saying that a particular road used a particular set of equipment over at least three different routes, and, each time, called the schedule by the name assigned to the equipment. Am I right?

Johnny

Thats 2 down 18 to go.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 9, 2009 9:45 PM

passengerfan

I am looking for the name of a train the RR that operated that train and at least three of the routes the train was assigned to?

Al - in - Stockton

Gentlemen you have twenty questions starting now. 

Al, I take it that you are saying that a particular road used a particular set of equipment over at least three different routes, and, each time, called the schedule by the name assigned to the equipment. Am I right?

Johnny

Johnny

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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 9:12 PM

al-in-chgo

The George Washington, Chesapeake & Ohio, Washington, D.C. (Newport News)  - train joined in Charlottesville, VA, then ran thru West Virginia but was "decoupled" with one stem going thru Frankfort, KY to Louisville, and the "main" portion going to Cincinnati, OH, terminus, where it connected with such day trains as the James Whitcomb Riley up to Chicago. 

There may have been other "moving parts" to the C&O's best-known varnish up 'til the late Fifties, but I have indicated:  one operating entity / operating under one name / with three routes no matter how you slice them (Newport News - C'ville),  Wash. D.C. to Cincinnati (and/or branch to Louisville). 

 I don't know if this is the train you had in mind, but does it fit your definition?  - a.s.

 

 

 

Sorry Al  no cigar 1 Down 19 to go. No it does not fit the definition I had in mind.

Al - in - Stockton 

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Monday, November 9, 2009 8:16 PM

The George Washington, Chesapeake & Ohio, Washington, D.C. (Newport News)  - train joined in Charlottesville, VA, then ran thru West Virginia but was "decoupled" with one stem going thru Frankfort, KY to Louisville, and the "main" portion going to Cincinnati, OH, terminus, where it connected with such day trains as the James Whitcomb Riley up to Chicago. 

There may have been other "moving parts" to the C&O's best-known varnish up 'til the late Fifties, but I have indicated:  one operating entity / operating under one name / with three routes no matter how you slice them (Newport News - C'ville),  Wash. D.C. to Cincinnati (and/or branch to Louisville). 

 I don't know if this is the train you had in mind, but does it fit your definition?  - a.s.

 

 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 1:09 PM

I am looking for the name of a train the RR that operated that train and at least three of the routes the train was assigned to?

Al - in - Stockton

Gentlemen you have twenty questions starting now. 

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 12:20 PM

All the trains I know of have been mentioned so it's time to draw this question to a close. By my count the score is:

Henry - 1

Al-in-Stockton - 3 (Sorry but the Meremaid wasm't named after a specific woman and doesn't count.)

adkdivfan - 1

Al is our winner and gets to ask the next question.

Mark

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Posted by AWP290 on Monday, November 9, 2009 10:12 AM

Nice try, Al.

Henry Flagler had three wives at one time or another - none of whom were named Dixie.  No.s one and three were named Mary, wife No. 2 was named Alice.

No cigar, there.

 

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 9:55 AM

Dixie Flagler was the wife of Henry Flagler and the train was named for her.

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Posted by AWP290 on Monday, November 9, 2009 6:20 AM

The Nancy Hanks II was a Central of Georgia passenger train, not Southern Railway.  It did not turn a wheel on the Southern, only the CofG.  The Southern controlled the CofG after 1963, but the Nancy was inaugurated in 1948, long before the Southern conquest - er, takeover - of the Central.

 The Central of Georgia still exists as a legal entity but for operating purposes is part and parcel of NS. Until fairly recently it had separate (and different) contracts with the operating unions.  Possibly still does.

 Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA 

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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 6:07 AM

If the question is not closed I have one more the Mermaid a PRSL train between Philadelphia and Atlantic City.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 3:47 AM

adkdivfan

C&NW's Kate Shelley 400, Chicago-Clinton IA. IC's Miss Lou, Jackson MS-New Orleans.M-K-T's Katy Ltd, San Antonio-Kansas City.

The Kate Shelley definitely but not the other two. Neither the Miss Lou nor Katy Ltd (or Katy Flyer) were named for women. The former was merely an abbreviation of the two states covered by the train and the latter just the "common name" by which the MKT was known.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 9, 2009 3:29 AM

al-in-chgo

Don't bother replying -- yes, you win!  The Internet had the complete poem about Abe Lincoln's (blood) mother who died when he was nine.  But Wiki stub specifically connected the famous trotting horse (named for the biped) to the Sou. Rwy. train, 1947-1971.  

Al,

I hope I'm not being too nit picky but you've got it right. The race horse was named after Lincoln's birth mother and the train was named for the race horse. When the Central of Georgia first put it in service the drumhead on the last car depicted a horses head framed by a horseshoe.

Mark

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Posted by adkdivfan on Sunday, November 8, 2009 10:04 PM

C&NW's Kate Shelley 400, Chicago-Clinton IA. IC's Miss Lou, Jackson MS-New Orleans.M-K-T's Katy Ltd, San Antonio-Kansas City.

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Sunday, November 8, 2009 8:21 PM

Re:  "al-in-chgo:  The Nancy Hanks, Atlanta - Savannah, Southern Rwy." 

 

"Sorry Al but the Nancy doesn't count. The train along with its Man 'o War companion were named for famous race horses". 

If you say so, but didn't the name also belong to Abraham Lincoln's Southern-born stepmother?  -  a.s.

Don't bother replying -- yes, you win!  The Internet had the complete poem about Abe Lincoln's (blood) mother who died when he was nine.  But Wiki stub specifically connected the famous trotting horse (named for the biped) to the Sou. Rwy. train, 1947-1971.  

Poem on request ito anyone who pm's me.   Oops  - a.s.

 

 

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, November 8, 2009 8:15 PM

passengerfan

I came up with five.

Ann Rutledge - Alton later GM&O between Chicago and St. Louis

Dixie Flagler - FEC owned but operated over the C&EI, NC&STL,L&N, AB&C, ACL, FEC between Chicago and Miami

Nellie Bly - PRR PRSL - Philadelphia - Atlantic City

Phoebe Snow - DL&W New York - Buffalo later after merger with Erie extended to Chicago

POCAHONTAS - N&W  between Norfolk and Cincinnatti 

Al - in - Stockton 

Al,

I'll credit you with three trains, the Ann Rutledge, Nellie Bly and Pocahontas. Henry mentioned the Phoebe first so credit goes to him for naming her.

The Dixie Flagler was not named for a woman. The Dixie part of its name derived from its running on the Dixie line route of the Dixieland and Dixie Flyer. Flagler referred to Henry M. Flagler, Florida land developer and FEC mogul.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, November 8, 2009 8:09 PM

al-in-chgo

 

The Nancy Hanks, Atlanta - Savannah, Southern Rwy. 

Sorry Al but the Nancy doesn't count. The train along with its Man 'o War companion were named for famous race horses.

Mark

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