DeggestyA. Al, I confess that I do not have a complete history of the routing the Birmingham Special, but the earliest schedule I have (June, 1916) does not show it going through Tennessee. That is an interesting routing, which could have had it turning south at Cleveland or Ooltewah for Atlanta instead of going into Chattanooga. Do you have any schedule that shows this? This (the oldest one I have) schedule does show that it did serve the downtown station of the major city (I did not think to check this one). The next three schedules I have, 9/30/17, [[edit, add] shows the same. The next two,] 4/4/20, & 6/15/31, show only the suburban stop (no backup move needed) as it moves on to/from Birmingham. The September 1936 schedule shows it going through Chattanooga, which remained its route until the end. There was a time when there was a through Washington-Memphis sleeper, as well as a NY-Nashville sleeper.
A. Al, I confess that I do not have a complete history of the routing the Birmingham Special, but the earliest schedule I have (June, 1916) does not show it going through Tennessee. That is an interesting routing, which could have had it turning south at Cleveland or Ooltewah for Atlanta instead of going into Chattanooga. Do you have any schedule that shows this? This (the oldest one I have) schedule does show that it did serve the downtown station of the major city (I did not think to check this one). The next three schedules I have, 9/30/17, [[edit, add] shows the same. The next two,] 4/4/20, & 6/15/31, show only the suburban stop (no backup move needed) as it moves on to/from Birmingham. The September 1936 schedule shows it going through Chattanooga, which remained its route until the end. There was a time when there was a through Washington-Memphis sleeper, as well as a NY-Nashville sleeper.
My September 1909 Official Guide shows the Birmingham Special running between Washington and Birmingham exclusively on the Southern. At this time, the only thru train that ran to Chattanooga was the Memphis Special, on its way to Memphis via SR and N&W.
Did not the Tennesean also serve Chattanooga?
Full text of the song:
Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga Choo Choo
Track 29, can you spare me a dime?
Can you afford, to board the Chattanooga Choo Choo
I've got my fare, and just a trifle to spare.
You leave the Pennsylvania Station 'round a quarter of 4.
Read a magazine and you're in Baltimore
Diner in the diner, nothing could be finer,
The to have your grits* and eggs in Carolina/
When you hear the the whistle blowing 8 to the bar,
then you'll know that Tennesse is not very far.
Shovel a little more coal in, gotta keep her rolling,
Whoo Whoo Tennesse, there you are!
There's gonna be, a certain party at the station.
Satin and lace, I used to call her funny face.
She's gonna cry, until I tell her that I'll never roam.
Chattanooga Choo Choo, won't you choo choo me home.
*strictly Kosher, in accordance with Rosh Yeshiva Danny Isaac's wishes.
Also, track 29 has always been an LIRR track.
The Southerner, from its beginning, in 1941, until its end, ran over the Southern all the way from Washington to New Orleans.
B. Correct.
C. Correct. The timing of the activities on board after leaving Penn Station fit the schedule, Two things amused me. One was directly from the song, since I could not imagine the route as being Southern all the way, going by way of Asheville. the other was from the movie, which showed the Tennessee line as being crossed more or less away from a city. As someone who took this train (and the Tennessean and Pelican) into and out of Bristol several times, I knew that the state line is crossed in an urban setting--State Street in Bristol, Va., and Bristol, Tenn.
By the way, when you were growing up in SW Virginia, did you ever see the Birmingham Special (considering its scheduled passing between Radford and Bristol)?
Johnny
Deggesty New question: what was the original route of the Birmingham Special, and what major city did it barely serve, with a stop at a suburban station (bypassing the downtown station)? Bonus question: what song is said to have been inspired by the schedule of this train (after its route was changed)? Johnny
New question: what was the original route of the Birmingham Special, and what major city did it barely serve, with a stop at a suburban station (bypassing the downtown station)? Bonus question: what song is said to have been inspired by the schedule of this train (after its route was changed)?
A. (New York) - Wash/Union - Charlottesville - Lynchburg /Kemper St. - Roanoke - Bristol TN/VA - Knoxville - Chattanooga - (barely) Atlanta for a while - Birmingham. There may also have been a connection to Memphis at one point thru Chattanooga; that's how The Southerner was routed. (In fact, there was no direct, through way to travel on land between Knoxville and Memphis before I-40 was constructed; the unusual looking Knoxville - Chattanooga - Memphis U-shaped route that The Southerner avoided the Cumberlands and followed the river/valley systems as much as possible.)
B. Atlanta, as mentioned above.
C. "Chattanooga Choo-Choo" is the song. Despite the inappropriate lyric about having "ham and eggs in Carolina" the trains from the Northeastern U.S. went to Chattanooga thru Virginia and Tennessee, not NC or SC (sorry, Tex Benecke!).
I'd say you are the winner, with the most locations and the most specific trains as apposed to all trains of a particular railroad at a particular location. One city still left out is Phily, with a few PRR trains that could be called streamliners (The Steel City, for a time) changing ends either at Broad Street while it lasted and then at 30th Street between New York City and the West. So we await your question.
Meanwhile, on the other thread, still looking for PRR-NYC sleepers.
narig01Was Richmond(Va) a stub?
After the SAL began using the Broad Street station in Richmond, the SAL trains--Silver Comet, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Sunland, and Palmland all had a backup move, to SAY. As long as SAL used Union Station, the operation through Richmond needed no backup move.
I'll add the "Twin Cities 400", the power swapped ends to go from St. Paul to Minneapolis.
The only errors I have caught so far are:
Jacksonville was a through station for the ACL - East Coast Florida FEC through trains, streamliners and others. with the two-traclk FEC bridtge into Jacksonville directly south of the station across the (Johns?) River. It was a stub station for all other trains, however.
San Diego had no through trains ---except now the San Diego Trolley. All trains in the streamliner era into San Diego teminated there and originated there.
We seem to have one winner so for, but there are still a few locations not mentioned.
The Southland, Flamingo, and the Dixie Flyer all performed back-up moves in Atlanta, coming in, as they did, to Union Station on the L&N and departing from Terminal Station on the CofG. The Flyer changed routes in 1952, going over to the ACL south of Atlanta, but this still involved a back-up move as the only tracks going through, not terminating at, Union Station were those of the Georgia Railroad.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
My two cents worth. I am not giving answers but ideas
1. Think of the places were trains had to back in. I'll city Fargo, ND. St Louis, Mo . Also (don't know if this counts) during the Amtrak era the Southwest Limited(Super Chief/El Capitan) had to be split to fit into Union Station. I suspect this may have also been the case at LaSalle St(?) Also Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal(LAUPT?) was also a stub(I think) . San Diego. (Santa Fe's San Diego's, also The Oakland Mole (on Southern Pacific) was a stub terminal and had some thru trains. Jacksonville Union Station(?) was a stub if I remember a piece in Classic Trains several issues back. Also New Orleans Union Station(?) Boston both North Station & South Station are stubs.
Was Richmond(Va) a stub? Charleston, WV,
Rgds IGN
SAL's Silver Comet backed into or out of Atlanta. Southern's Southerner backed into or out of Atlanta and Birmingham (for that matter, Birmingham's terminal was a stub station for all through Southern trains). The Tennessean, New Royal Palm and Royal Palm backed into Chattanooga. NC&StL's Georgian and Dixie Flagler/Dixieland backed into or out of Chattanooga (both Chattanooga stations were stub). Also, the Dixie Flagler/Dixieland had a backup move in Atlanta. KCS's Southern Belle backed into or out of Alexandria, and Shreveport, La., Texarkana, Ark.-Tex., and Joplin, Mo. Except for the ACL-FEC through trains, ACL and SAL trains had a backup move in Jacksonville. SAL's Silver Meteor and Silver Star each had a backup move in Tampa on the way to/from St. Petersburg; also the Venice cars had a backup move in Tampa. The ACL's West Coast Champion's Sarasota cars had a backup move in Tampa, and the Naples cars had a backup move in Lakeland. When they went into Ogden, the City of Los Angeles and City of St. Louis had a backup move.
When the City of St. Louis went into Cheyenne, was the engine run around the train in Cheyenne and Denver?
If you count backup moves at the end of the run, all trains backed into New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal: Humming Bird, Crescent, Southerner, City of New Orleans, Panama Limited, Southern Belle, Louisiana Eagle, Sunset Limited, and, perhaps more.
Edit: having re-read the question, I have removed the Sarasota, Venice, and Naples cars.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'll start with IC's "Green Diamond", which had to back into the Springfield station.
I'll start with IC's "Green Diamond", which had to back into the Springfield station.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan schlimm passengerfan al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton The IC's Land of Corn (west of the Mississippi, in Iowa) The IC Land O'Corn very good. Here are four more I found El Pasoan AT&SF Albuquerque - El Paso Cascadian GN Seattle - Spokane AuRoRa ARR Anchorage - Fairbanks Caribou Dayliner N. Vancouver - Prince George I don't know who answered the most so figure it out for yourselves and that person ask the next question. Al - in - Stockton
schlimm passengerfan al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton The IC's Land of Corn (west of the Mississippi, in Iowa)
passengerfan al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton
al-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al
No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day.
The IC's Land of Corn (west of the Mississippi, in Iowa)
Here are four more I found
El Pasoan AT&SF Albuquerque - El Paso
Cascadian GN Seattle - Spokane
AuRoRa ARR Anchorage - Fairbanks
Caribou Dayliner N. Vancouver - Prince George
I don't know who answered the most so figure it out for yourselves and that person ask the next question.
One more (which I didn't see mentioned):
SP's Redwood- the RDC train which ran from Willits to Eureka up to the beginning of Amtrak.
Name all premier streamliners in the 1948-1956 era that had a backup move during their regular passenger carrying travel between end-ponts. This does not count equipment dropped or picked up to serve branchline points. This does not count self-propelled mu cars, specifically RDC's or electric mu's. A premier streamliner need not have sleepers but must at least have food service that is better than a strolling cart.
A backup move can either be with the entire train running backwards and a trainman or conductor in the rear car with either or both brake control and control of the commmunications whistle, or a switcher coupling on behind the rear car and pulling the whole train backwards.
Complete change of direction with the locomotive running around the train or swapping of locomotives should be listed separtely. I am aware of a city where this happend regularly.
Deggesty passengerfan Rather than let the post die I will throw a quick question out there. How many streamlined Observations of all types were operated by Amtrak? I found the following information in Railway Passenger Car Annual Volume VI 1984: 1 -5 db obs lounge (NYC) 7 - obs lounge (ACL) 2 - obs lounge (FEC) 5 - obs lounge (SAL) 1 - obs coach (SAL) 2 - obs coach (NYC) 3 - obs diner (C&O) 4 - obs dome sleeper (CB&Q) 3 - obs dome parlor (CB&Q) 1 - obs dome parlor (WAB) As to naming the all coach streamliners that ran west of the Mississippi, I checked back, and it seems that Dave had two correct answers--Zephyrette and City of Salina. Johnny
passengerfan Rather than let the post die I will throw a quick question out there. How many streamlined Observations of all types were operated by Amtrak?
Rather than let the post die I will throw a quick question out there.
How many streamlined Observations of all types were operated by Amtrak?
1 -5 db obs lounge (NYC)
7 - obs lounge (ACL)
2 - obs lounge (FEC)
5 - obs lounge (SAL)
1 - obs coach (SAL)
2 - obs coach (NYC)
3 - obs diner (C&O)
4 - obs dome sleeper (CB&Q)
3 - obs dome parlor (CB&Q)
1 - obs dome parlor (WAB)
As to naming the all coach streamliners that ran west of the Mississippi, I checked back, and it seems that Dave had two correct answers--Zephyrette and City of Salina.
Your list is only 29 I have 47 that were owned by Amtrak at one time or another. None were ever considered for HEP and all were either sold or scrapped. If you want a list I will print it out for anyone who wants one.
Dave your question.
passengerfan AWP290 The Caribou Dayliner definitely had two classes when I rode it in 1993. First class was known as "Caribou Class" and occupied the passenger section of the only RDC-2 (or was it and RDC-3? I forget) and part of the baggage section was used as a small service buffet/galley. The car had reclining seats, overhead luggage bins, a la airlines, and a car attendent. Meals were included in the price of the ticket. First class was available in only one direction each day, as they owned only one RDC with baggage space. I road to Lillouet in coach class (only class available N/B) and first class south. Nice ride. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA You are absolutely right and I of all people should know better as I rode the train fom North Vancouver to Prince George twice, once when it was PG&E and the second time BCRail. I still think it was one of the most magnificent trips for scenery in North America. I rode the train round trip after spending a day in Prince George the first time and the second I took the Rupert Rocket from Prince George to Prince Rupert and took the BC Ferry to where I took the RDC trip to Victoria and then on to the mainland by ferry. That was kind of a circle tour. I am sitting here watching the football game and answering your post at the same time the game is now in overtime. Al - in - Stockton
AWP290 The Caribou Dayliner definitely had two classes when I rode it in 1993. First class was known as "Caribou Class" and occupied the passenger section of the only RDC-2 (or was it and RDC-3? I forget) and part of the baggage section was used as a small service buffet/galley. The car had reclining seats, overhead luggage bins, a la airlines, and a car attendent. Meals were included in the price of the ticket. First class was available in only one direction each day, as they owned only one RDC with baggage space. I road to Lillouet in coach class (only class available N/B) and first class south. Nice ride. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
The Caribou Dayliner definitely had two classes when I rode it in 1993. First class was known as "Caribou Class" and occupied the passenger section of the only RDC-2 (or was it and RDC-3? I forget) and part of the baggage section was used as a small service buffet/galley. The car had reclining seats, overhead luggage bins, a la airlines, and a car attendent. Meals were included in the price of the ticket.
First class was available in only one direction each day, as they owned only one RDC with baggage space. I road to Lillouet in coach class (only class available N/B) and first class south.
Nice ride.
I am sitting here watching the football game and answering your post at the same time the game is now in overtime.
Didn't the Carribou Daylight actually have two classes, and does deluxe coach still qualify as coach? As I remember, regular seating was in straight-back seats while deluxe gave you reclining seats and a complimentary meal. Does that still qualify as coach?
From prior post: "I don't know who answered the most so figure it out for yourselves and that person ask the next question."
Is it possible that railwayman, Carl and any others who contributed right answers can give Schlimm "first refusal" on the opp'y to ask the next question? Y'all decide - al-in-chgo
passengerfanal-in-chgoDoes the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al No as long as it crossed the Mississippi it qualifies. There is at least three left so lets give it another day. Al - in - Stockton
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
By the way the RED RIVER is disqualified as it was not a coach only streamliner the Observation of this train was a dining parlor car named RED RIVER.
passengerfan CSSHEGEWISCH I'll add the Starlight between San Francisco and Los Angeles on SP and the San Diegans between San Diego and Los Angeles on ATSF. The Starlight actually operated with a Parlor and later a sleeper. The San Diegans is correct. So was the Zephyrette answered earlier. By the way so was the City of Salina I forgot to acknowledge earlier. I can think of at least three more. The Sunbeam and Hustler both operated with a Parlor car. Al - in - Stockton
CSSHEGEWISCH I'll add the Starlight between San Francisco and Los Angeles on SP and the San Diegans between San Diego and Los Angeles on ATSF.
I'll add the Starlight between San Francisco and Los Angeles on SP and the San Diegans between San Diego and Los Angeles on ATSF.
Does the train's ENTIRE route have to be west of the Mississippi? - chgo al
Did the two SP Dallas - Houston trains carry a parlor or where they all coach? They were streamlined, initially with streamlined steam, I think streamlined Pacifics and not 4-8-4's One was the Hustler, and I forget the name of the other. Only two consists were required, since a round trip each day was possible. Sunbeam?
Was the Zepherette name of the Sacramento - Ogden RDC that the WP operated an official name?
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