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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 19, 2010 5:07 AM

I was not looking for the official name of the pass, which was seldom used, but for the visual description, which was the common term used for the route.  So Garyla is correct, "Giants Ladder", and there is a wonderful book that is the biography of David Moffat and the history of the Denver and Salt Lake Railroad by that name.   The route was a series of switchbacks on both sides, more on the east side, and looking from the base, it truly looked like  giant ladder!!    Next question please?

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:54 AM

It was known as the "Moffat Road," but that, of course, makes no reference to any of the features found along the way.

Johnny

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Posted by garyla on Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:01 AM

Wasn't that "The Giant's Ladder"?

If I ever met a train I didn't like, I can't remember when it happened!
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Posted by Great Western on Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:31 AM

 Hi Dave,

 

The name Rollins Pass comes to mind - but  that is most likely not the answer.   Anyway at least it proves that I read the Forum.  Big Smile

Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad

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If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:47 AM

Hint:   The name for the route was the title of a book having as its main subject one of my personal heroes.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 15, 2010 2:26 PM

What was the popular name of the route that took the original Denver and Salt Lake over the Rocky Mountains before the building of the Moffat Tunnel, and what the features that gave it that name.

 (Vestiges of the route were still to be seen when I first rode the CZ in 1960, but they disapeared years ago.)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, March 15, 2010 6:29 AM

daveklepper

Six-wheel trucks?

We have a winner!!  South Shore diners 301-302 and parlor cars 351-352 were the only interurban passenger equipment to ride on Commonwealth six-wheel trucks.

Daveklepper, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 15, 2010 3:38 AM

Six-wheel trucks?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:39 AM

The diners and parlors were straight trailers without pantographs.  South Shore's latest trailers (the current 200 series) are the first on the road that have pantographs. 

Hint:  Think at the bottom of the car.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 14, 2010 3:56 AM

YOu might want to check on the parlors.

OK.   A long shot.   While the IC mu's were married pairs, with power for the trailer bussed only from the companion motor cars, the South Shore trailers, including parlors and diners, were separate units, and 1500V removable jumper cables were available to power trailers from adjacent motor cars.   Indeed, on the South Shore, the practice in winter storms train line the 1500V dc throughout the train, reducing arcing when sleet on the wire was encountered.

But the diners, and possibly some parlors, required more than the usual amount of hotel power, so possibly they were equipped with one or two pantographs?   I think ore motor cars had two, with only on in use usually.

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:24 PM

 

This is a shot in the dark, If the were built during prohibition did they have a secret compartment for alcoholic beverages? 

(by the way if I get this right please continue without me, as I'll be out of contact for the next several days. Did finally get another machine tho.

Thx IGN

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, March 12, 2010 9:58 AM

South Shore's diners had no controls.  I'm pretty sure that the parlors didn't, either.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 12, 2010 2:43 AM

Did these cars have motormen's controls to allow them to be used as control trailers?

This was true of some of the North Shore's similar equipment, and obviously steam road parlors and diners did not have this equipment.

Also, stoves were electrically powered and the parlors may have had a small electrically powered stove or hot water heater for warm drinks.  Steam road diners generally had charcoal burning stoves or used heating oil.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:59 PM

daveklepper

Vestibules and traps and steps and doors at both ends.

The diners didn't have steps and traps, all of South Shore's coaches did have all of that equipment, I'm thinking of diners and parlors only.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:40 PM

Vestibules and traps and steps and doors at both ends.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:01 AM

South Shore's dining cars and two of its parlor cars had a characteristic that made them unique among interurban equipment.  What was that characteristic?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 4:33 AM

Still waiting for Paul's question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 7, 2010 2:41 PM

Those are the locomotives I had in mind, so you get to ask the next question.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, March 5, 2010 9:58 AM

I will say the pair of 2-6-6-2T's built for Uintah RR.  They later went to Sumpter Vally in Oregon, where they acquired tenders and were resold to International Railways of Central America.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 4, 2010 5:18 AM

Narrow gauge steam please?

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Posted by cn854 on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 10:38 AM

The GN did not assigned a switcher at Winnipeg, GN's and NP's Midland Railway of Manitoba had a GMDL SW900 for yard and interchange traffic and a torpedo tubed GP9 for passenger protection power for the GN and NP psgr trains, stationed in Winnipeg.

 Mark Perry

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 4:03 AM

Hint, ended up used bv two railroads in the USA, then may have been sold to a foreign country.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 1, 2010 4:38 AM

 What the very last rod (not geared) narrow gauge steam locomotives built in the USA for service on a USA railroad?

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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:47 PM

 

Fm Narig.I regret my being unable to reply with a new question.  With regrets my laptop that I use on the road crashed last week and I've been unable to reply. My apologies for this. I do have the ability to watch replies on my cell ph.

     I've asked Dave Kepler to continue here.   

 

Thx IGN   

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:42 AM

Narig, it's your question, because you were correct when you wrote that you had read somewhere about using three car bodies to make one car.

I have to comment regarding the lack of full-width diaphragms for the streamlines New England States.  Yes, the feature car, the solarium observation round end, a pair, was purchased for this train, and possibly the twin-unit diners, but all other equpment was part of a general equipment pool that was shared with the Empire State Express and several other trains.   For a while the NYC did try to keep stainless equipment separate from straight-side two-tone grey equipment, but that went out the window with Pearlman.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:07 AM

I remembered that I had ridden a 2rm&Bth car on my first (age 28) visit to Europe in 1960.   It was probably in Vienna, although I also rode trams in Amsterdam, Frankfort, Strasburg, Milan, and Rome.  Then in the 1980's I believe I rode one as a museum car in Brussels on an ERA fantrip there.   Very rough riding.   I think I read that Calcutta recently took  some of their old 4-wheels and made the into three-body two-truck articulateds. 

Waiting for the next question.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:02 AM

Al, that's a neat website and in case you didn't see it, here's a link to the index page of  A General Chronology of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company by Christopher T. Baer. 

http://www.prrths.com/Hagley/PRR_hagley_intro.htm

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:08 AM

Check on "somewhere I saw a description."   That is the answer.   In 1904 several streetcar copmpanies tried just that, the Brooklyn-NY system, Boston, and few others.   Two single-truck cars had one platform removed, an articulation joint replace it, and a third single-truck body was shortened and suspended as the connecting link between them.   The articulation joint often leaked in rainy weather, so the moniker "two rooms and a bath" was frequently applied to these cars.  Boston Elevated ended up converting nearly all their single-truck closed cars to this form,retaining trucks and motors and beefing up the springing and controlers,but very little material brand new.  Brooklyn had a few experimentals and disgarded the idea quickly,bought 200 Birney cars for single-man operation, and then sold these when buying the largest fleet of double end Peter Witts anywhere, about 535 such cars plus 200 single-end in 1930.    The two-rooms-and-abath cars were bad riding cars, the articulation arrangement seeming to amplify every joint instead of damping it as in convenitonal articulation.   Two trucks and three bodies instead of three trucks and two bodies.

The Washington Baltimore and Annapolis interurbans were contemporary with the BMT's D-Types which have (two or three are still operable for museum and fan-trip purposes) three bodies and four trucks.   I believe Stillwell was still involved with both the WB&A and BMT designs.  Both were successful designs.

The Boston Elevated's 2rm&bth cars were all retired when the lightweight Type 5's arrived in the 1020's.  They were never allowed on Subway routes, which were handled by the big doiuble-truck heavy Type 2,3,and 4cars, the latter hauling center-entrance trailers after about 1916, and then the Center Entrance mu cars replaced  the wood 2, and 3types.   The 4 was basically steel and continued until about 1955.   

Some companies spliced two single-truck bodies together to make a double-truck car.   But this involved a new underframe, new trucks, and new motors.   Not a great saving over a new car!

Your question,  

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Monday, February 15, 2010 8:37 PM

Hi, Chicago Al again.  Sorry to intrude but I found a site that is quite specific about the date of implementaiton of the Budd stainless-steel coaches, the originals brought in during 1952.  Daveklepper, you remain quite right on all the answers.  This may just add a little detail: 

 http://www.prrths.com/Hagley/PRR1952%20Dec%2004.pdf 

...note that it is a .pdf document.

 

Below I have highlighted the part I found most interesting.  This is on the third page of the document whose link is above; the document itself is called simply "PRR Chronology / 1952 / December 2004 Edition." 

 

........Mar. 15, 1952 Last run of Richmond-Terre Haute "ghost train" No. 413-426. (A-sheet)

Mar. 17, 1952
The Congressional (18 cars each) and The Senator (14 cars each) reequipped

with 64 lightweight streamlined cars from the Budd Company;

Morning/Midday Congressionals introduced and old Congressional

becomes Afternoon Congressional.(check tt.) Ten GG1s repainted from

Brunswick Green to Tuscan Red with gold stripes to match cars;

Afternoon Congressional christened at Penn Station by wife of Mayor

V.R. Impellitteri and at Washington by Mrs. Alben W. Barkley; Senator

christened at Washington by wife of New Hampshire Styles Bridges and

at Boston by wife of House Majority Leader John McCormack; consist

of
Congressional is 8 coaches, tavern-lounge, twin-unit diner, room car,and 6 parlors including parlor-observation; consist of Senator is 8

coaches, tavern-lounge, diner, and 4 parlors including parlorobservation;

new equipment causes ridership to increase 9%. (MB, NYT,

Wayner, tt.)

Mar. 18, 1952 New Haven installs ticket vending machines in Grand Central Terminal.

(NYT).........

 

Enjoy!  Allen  S.

PS Dave:  Don't feel bad about not listing the stainless-steel siding as the innovation "obvious" to the general traveling public.  I almost said "apparent" or "visible" but settled for the more ambiguous adjective, which meant the answer I was looking for was more "hiding in plain sight" than self-evident.  I really thought you deserved the win and I still do.  -  al

 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by narig01 on Monday, February 15, 2010 4:36 AM

1st guess, Peter Witt cars?

In my copy of the Interurban Era by William Middleton the earliest articulated electric railcar I can find specifically is the Washington, Baltimore & Annapolis articulated cars were built in 1927 by J.G.Brill, for use on the Baltimore to Washington, D.C. line.  (I'm reasonably sure this is not what your looking for, but I thought I'd mention them)

       I also see a reference to a 1904  car that was manufactured by John Stephenson of Elizabeth, NJ, that was exhibited at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in St Louis. This is described as "a 12 wheeled interurban car". I did not see any reference as to whether this was an articulated car or some other combination(ie 2 3-axle trucks) 

 

       One other description I saw somewhere was were 3 four wheeled cars were spliced together to create a single car. The middle section being suspended between the 1st & 3rd cars. I do not recall the dates.

    Last. About the Key System Bridge units, I would not describe Bridge Units as "light rail", not with 8" or 10" concrete floors. (forget how thick they were) .

      I apoligies for the rambling here as is it 430am and it has been a long day (Chattanooga, Tn to Hope, Ar)

Thx IGN

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