Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

The curtailment of this train cut its run by 280 miles, and it no longer ran in two states.

What was the new terminus, and why was it chosen?

 

In December of 1968, the Washington-New Orleans Pelican was cut back to a Washington-York, Alabama operation.  York was the last stop in Alabama for the train, so service to Mississippi and Louisiana was gone.  A few months later, the Bristol-Chattanooga portion was lopped off, leaving the Pelican as a Washington-Bristol train and an unnamed Chattanooga-York unnamed train, keeping the Pelican's numbers and schedule for the latter.  Soon after wards, the Chattanooga-York portion was gone, leaving the Washington-Bristol portion left.  By November of 1969, the name was gone, and the train itself would be gone in 1970.

It looks like a textbook example of how the Southern rationalized its passenger service in the late 1960's, killing one leak link at a time in state-wide lengths.

 

[daveklepper]

Did the Pelican start operating just from Waqshington to Monroe because the N&W disconinued its portion?  Or did it run just from Birmingham to Bristol for the same reason?   Because Tennesee insisted it continue for some reason?   Or from Birmingham to New Orleans?

 

Maybe it still had a mail contract on a part of its run?

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

It the train the Pelican?

"A wonderful bird is the Pelican, whose beak holds more than its belican." -- Dixon Lanier Merritt.

I would have attributed this to Ogden Nash, but I thought I should look it up.

What was the new terminus, and why was it chosen?

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

This train was named for a creature whose mouth could hold more "than its bellican."

 

Is the train the Pelican?

[Deggesty]

This train was named for a creature whose mouth could hold more "than its bellican."

[Deggesty]

This train had its tail shortened in 1969.

[Deggesty]

Bob, I would not know what to do with track bolts; I do not need a lot of paperweights. thanks, anyway .

The curtailment of this train cut its run by 280 miles, and it no longer ran in two states.

[Deggesty]

AWP290

Give that man a five-pound box of track bolts!

That took a tad longer than I thought it would.  The train was, indeed, the Royal Palm, train 3 in the timetable.  The sordid event took place at a wide spot in the road in the Okeefenokee Swamp called Council, GA.

Over to you, Johnny.

Bob

By then, Council was not even a flag stop for the train. It was the last named spot on the GS&F before it entered Florida for the first time on its way to Jacksonville.

Now, another train that was abbreviated by Southern, in another state, a few years later.

This train left its last true division point, traveled 125 miles (27 miles short of its former division point), to a junction that had a wye, turned there, and proceeded to its destination close to the East Coast. I made two trips that included the turnaround; the first time the conductor refused to lift my transportation from my then railhead to the turnaround point and back.

Second part: why was the turnaround point chosen (other than that it had a wye)?

[AWP290]

Give that man a five-pound box of track bolts!

That took a tad longer than I thought it would.  The train was, indeed, the Royal Palm, train 3 in the timetable.  The sordid event took place at a wide spot in the road in the Okeefenokee Swamp called Council, GA.

Over to you, Johnny.

Bob

[Deggesty]

AWP290

This one shouldn't be too difficult:

In the 1960's, under President D. W. Brosnan, Southern Railway entered into what amounted to a holy crusade to discontinue passenger trains (some of which were actually still earning a small profit!)

In a spectacularly bad public relations move, Brosnan ordered a name train discontinued before the end of its run and had its passengers detrained literally in the middle of a swamp and bussed to the train's terminal.

Question:  What was the train?  And for extra credit, what was the name of the town (and I use the term loosely) where this event occurred?

As I said, this one shouldn't be too difficult as there are a number of guys on this list who probably recall the event as it received an inordinate amount of publicity (much to the chagrin of SR.)

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

Surely, someone else knows that the Royal Palm was cut off east of Georgia sometime between 10/31/65 and 5/1/66. I do not remember if it had crossed Florida without stopping until it reached St. George, Georgia, or if it was stopped at Fargo, before entering Florida at all. I did not remember any statement about busing the passengers to Jacksonville; I do remember that the sleeper passengers were not allowed to stay aboard until a decent time.

[AWP290]

This one shouldn't be too difficult:

In the 1960's, under President D. W. Brosnan, Southern Railway entered into what amounted to a holy crusade to discontinue passenger trains (some of which were actually still earning a small profit!)

In a spectacularly bad public relations move, Brosnan ordered a name train discontinued before the end of its run and had its passengers detrained literally in the middle of a swamp and bussed to the train's terminal.

Question:  What was the train?  And for extra credit, what was the name of the town (and I use the term loosely) where this event occurred?

As I said, this one shouldn't be too difficult as there are a number of guys on this list who probably recall the event as it received an inordinate amount of publicity (much to the chagrin of SR.)

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[KCSfan]

AWP290

Illinois Central, The Panama Limited, May 1, 1942, unless I'm mistaken.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

Wow, that was quick. No mistake about it. You are right on all counts so the next question is yours Bob.

Mark

[AWP290]

Illinois Central, The Panama Limited, May 1, 1942, unless I'm mistaken.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[KCSfan]

During WW2 the construction of passenger cars for America's railroads was suspended as men. material and machines were diverted to building only those things essential to the war effort. What were the last sets of streamlined equipment to be completed after the US entered the war? Name the railroad, the train and the date this equipment went into service.

Mark 

[wanswheel]

[Deggesty]

CSSHEGEWISCH

I will suggest that these trains were equipped with Tip Top Tap Cars.  My guess is that they drew their name from the tavern-lounge at the Allerton Hotel in Chicago.

Paul, according to the equipment listing 69 and a quarter years ago, the Hiawathas did have Tip Top Tap cars--the cars on the trains to Minneapolis were styled "Tip Top Tap cars," and served Beverages and light luncheons." The cars on the Midwest Hiawatha were styled "Tip Top Tap Diner," ran between Chicago and Omaha, and served "50c. luncheon, 65c. dinner; also a la carte and buffet service." A cafe-lounge car was operated between Manilla and Sioux Falls; it offered the same fare that the diners offered. I may have seen the explanation of the name before, but I had forgotten it.

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

It's about 11:15 pm and I am too tired to look up my references so I'll take a stab at this question strictly from memory. Would these be the beaver tail observation cars? I seem to recall reading they were built by the Milwaukee Road in their own shops which I think were in Milwaukee or maybe West Allis. The name derived from their distinct sloped backs which bore a faint resemblance to a beaver's tail - broad, thick at the base and sloping back somewhat to a thin tip.

Mark

You have a good memory, Mark. The beaver tail observation cars, built by Milwaukee Road shops, were operated on these trains 69 years ago. As to the name, I always thought of beaver tails as being almost flat, and not having a slope such as that of the rear of these cars. It certainly was a dsitinctive shape, which no other road copied (just as no other road had Sky-Top observation cars).

So, you have the privilege of asking the next question.

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I will suggest that these trains were equipped with Tip Top Tap Cars.  My guess is that they drew their name from the tavern-lounge at the Allerton Hotel in Chicago.

[KCSfan]

It's about 11:15 pm and I am too tired to look up my references so I'll take a stab at this question strictly from memory. Would these be the beaver tail observation cars? I seem to recall reading they were built by the Milwaukee Road in their own shops which I think were in Milwaukee or maybe West Allis. The name derived from their distinct sloped backs which bore a faint resemblance to a beaver's tail - broad, thick at the base and sloping back somewhat to a thin tip.

Mark

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

Next question is yours, John

Now, to day trains on the Milwaukee, also in early 1941.

What equipment did the following trains have in common that was not operated on any other train, according to the MILW representaion in the Guide?

Morning & Afternoon Hiawathas (Chicago-Minneapolis), Midwest Hiawatha (Chicago-Sioux Falls), Chippewa (Milwaukee to Channing & Channing to Chicago; the listing does not show how the car was returned to Milwaukee).

Who built these cars?

Why were they given their distinctive name? (I have never been able to figure this one out.) Whoever can give this answer deserves a box of $15.00 cigars and a case of the best champagne.

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

ZephyrOverland

As for the next question:

The Milwaukee Road briefly ran a train named after a nocturnal creature.  Name the train and the route.

 

In January of 1930, the Milwaukee was operating The Bat between Chicago and Minneapolis. Westbound, it had a Milwaukee to LaCrosse setout sleeper, and eastbound it had a St. Paul to Chicago setout sleeper.

 

That's the train I was looking for.  Next question is yours, Johnny.

 

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

As for the next question:

The Milwaukee Road briefly ran a train named after a nocturnal creature.  Name the train and the route.

 

In January of 1930, the Milwaukee was operating The Bat between Chicago and Minneapolis. Westbound, it had a Milwaukee to LaCrosse setout sleeper, and eastbound it had a St. Paul to Chicago setout sleeper.

[ZephyrOverland]

KCSfan

Those are the two I had in mind so the next question is yours ZO. I have no idea where the C&EI came up with the slogan "The Noisless Route" since I'm sure their trains were just as noisy inside and out as those on any other railroad of the time.

 

I have a suspicion that C&EI tried to make lemonade out of lemons by referring itself as "The Noiseless Route" due to the fact that their St. Louis route did not pass through any larger population centers and did not carry any set-on or set-off sleepers.  So, in theory, you could get a better nights sleep on board a CEI train.  While this was a usable selling point during the time it was used, it also glossed over the lines greatest weakness - the lack of substantial intermediate traffic.  This weakness was the primary cause of C&EI exiting the Chicago-St. Louis market in 1949.

As for the next question:

The Milwaukee Road briefly ran a train named after a nocturnal creature.  Name the train and the route.

 

[wanswheel]

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/uic_cop,821

[KCSfan]

ZephyrOverland

Century of Progress and Spirit of Progress

C&EI - Chicago-Pana, IL

B4 - Pana - St. Louis

The C&EI slogan at this time was "The Noiseless Route."

Those are the two I had in mind so the next question is yours ZO. I have no idea where the C&EI came up with the slogan "The Noisless Route" since I'm sure their trains were just as noisy inside and out as those on any other railroad of the time.

Johnny, you're right they were C&EI trains all the way between Chi and StL and the Pana-StL part of their route was on trackage rights over the Big Four. The Spirit of Progress was the night train leaving both Chi and StL about midnight and arriving at their destinations about 7 in the morning. I have a 1937 OG showing its consist as reclining seat chair cars, two Pullmans and a cafe lounge car. Interestingly, the latter was unusal in that it served a midnight supper as well as a club breakfast in the morning.

The day train, The Century of Progress, left around Noon and arrived around 5pm. It ran on a 5-1/2 hour schedule southbound and a 5 hour flat schedule northbound. The consist was reclining seat chair cars, a cafe-lounge car and a drawing room/parlor/observation car.

Mark

 

 

 

 

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

KCSfan

What railroad ran two trains whose names were inspired by the 1933-34 Chicago Worlds Fair? Name the trains, their routes and the advertising slogan used by the railroad at that time.

Mark 

Century of Progress and Spirit of Progress

C&EI - Chicago-Pana, IL

B4 - Pana - St. Louis

The C&EI slogan at this time was "The Noiseless Route."

Weren't these trains operated by the C&EI all the way Chicago-St. Louis, using trackage rights over the Big Four Pana-St. Louis? I don't think that the Big Four showed them in its timetables.

By the way, was one of them an overnight train?

[ZephyrOverland]

KCSfan

What railroad ran two trains whose names were inspired by the 1933-34 Chicago Worlds Fair? Name the trains, their routes and the advertising slogan used by the railroad at that time.

Mark 

Century of Progress and Spirit of Progress

C&EI - Chicago-Pana, IL

B4 - Pana - St. Louis

The C&EI slogan at this time was "The Noiseless Route."

[KCSfan]

Since it's been over a week and still no question from garyla I'll throw one out to keep the thread alive while we're waiting for him.

What railroad ran two trains whose names were inspired by the 1933-34 Chicago Worlds Fair? Name the trains, their routes and the advertising slogan used by the railroad at that time.

Mark 

[al-in-chgo]

daveklepper

Again Garyla, we are waiting for your question!

 

-Maybe you should PM him?   -   al

 

[daveklepper]

Again Garyla, we are waiting for your question!