daveklepperThat is one. Another on the same railroad please?
That is one. Another on the same railroad please?
The Frisco Firefly?
daveklepperAs a passenger train, the Balckhawk was a CB&Q ovenright Chi-Twin train and was simultaneous with the MP truck usage. Don't count. But correct on other two. Score 3 - 1 - 2 IN one case the two train names (passenger and frieght) as the usually applied shortcut name for the railroad begin with the same letter.
As a passenger train, the Balckhawk was a CB&Q ovenright Chi-Twin train and was simultaneous with the MP truck usage. Don't count. But correct on other two. Score 3 - 1 - 2
IN one case the two train names (passenger and frieght) as the usually applied shortcut name for the railroad begin with the same letter.
The Frisco Meteor?
Shot in the dark. Eagle , Missouri Pacific?
Also while here The Piedmont , Southern Ry? Didn't that kind of morph from a passenger train to a mixed passenger/TOFC to only TOFC?
The only other name I can think of is Blackhawk which was used by Missouri Pacific for there truck service.
Rgds IGN
Zepjyr overland has three and Paul has one. Go to the southwest and you'll find some more, also to the south.
Overland Mail - UP
I will accept those, but please come up with at least two more!!!
daveklepperName at least five or more names of really excellent passenger trains (can be all-coach streamliners, all first class, whatever, but always premium passenger trains at the times they were operated), whose names were then used for fast freight service after, sometimes long after, the passenger trains was discontinued. Can be a general service name and not just one round-trip train. But must be the same railroad or its successor.
Name at least five or more names of really excellent passenger trains (can be all-coach streamliners, all first class, whatever, but always premium passenger trains at the times they were operated), whose names were then used for fast freight service after, sometimes long after, the passenger trains was discontinued. Can be a general service name and not just one round-trip train. But must be the same railroad or its successor.
Ill start with:
Pacemaker - NYC
Orange Blossom Special - SAL -> CSX
Super C(hief) - ATSF
daveklepperI am not sure I understand the question comletely, but I think you are looking for train names for the trains the Keystone equipment (low-profile ultra-lightweight, regular width and length and double-truck stainless steel) was used for. This would include at times, the Morning Keystone, the Afternoon Keystone, the Morning Congressional, (but never the Afternoon Congressional), the just plane Keystone running to Harrisburg. I don't remember this equipment ever running north of NYC-Penn on the New Haven. But at times it did show up on the Executive and possibly the Mayflower.
I am not sure I understand the question comletely, but I think you are looking for train names for the trains the Keystone equipment (low-profile ultra-lightweight, regular width and length and double-truck stainless steel) was used for. This would include at times, the Morning Keystone, the Afternoon Keystone, the Morning Congressional, (but never the Afternoon Congressional), the just plane Keystone running to Harrisburg. I don't remember this equipment ever running north of NYC-Penn on the New Haven. But at times it did show up on the Executive and possibly the Mayflower.
This may have been an unclear question. My thoughts concerning this question revolved on the low-profile Keystone equipment. I assumed that this equipment was used only on trains named the Keystone or a variation of that name. I was unaware of any official assignments of this equipment on other named trains. The train names I was looking for include:
Morning Keystone
Afternoon Keystone
Evening Keystone
Midnight Keystone
There was also a Keystone Express that ran before WWI between Jersey City and Chicago/St. Louis and another Keystone Express that ran ofter WWII from Pittsburgh to Sunbury in conjunction with the Lackawanna, but that's out of scope for this question.
At this point go ahead and ask the next question, Dave.
al-in-chgothe Pennsy used to have enormous shop works in a neighborhood of Indianapois named "Keystone." IIRC it is just east of the main drag, I-65, just s. of where I-70 EB has departed toward Ohio. I do not know if that is the same area that Amtrak today calls "Beech Grove," although it wouldn't surprise me.
Johnny
al-in-chgo As for the next question - variations on a theme: PRR's Keystone - list the train names that the PRR used in relation to this name. Okay, to get the ball rolling -- the Pennsy used to have enormous shop works in a neighborhood of Indianapois named "Keystone." IIRC it is just east of the main drag, I-65, just s. of where I-70 EB has departed toward Ohio. I do not know if that is the same area that Amtrak today calls "Beech Grove," although it wouldn't surprise me. Also, "K" class Pennsy steam locomotives! Best known was probably the K4, which most other lines would call a Pacific. "Standard of the World" or was it "World Standard" as to standardized rolling stock, thru traffic, and so on......or just plain bein' impressive! - al
As for the next question - variations on a theme:
PRR's Keystone - list the train names that the PRR used in relation to this name.
Okay, to get the ball rolling -- the Pennsy used to have enormous shop works in a neighborhood of Indianapois named "Keystone." IIRC it is just east of the main drag, I-65, just s. of where I-70 EB has departed toward Ohio. I do not know if that is the same area that Amtrak today calls "Beech Grove," although it wouldn't surprise me.
Also, "K" class Pennsy steam locomotives! Best known was probably the K4, which most other lines would call a Pacific. "Standard of the World" or was it "World Standard" as to standardized rolling stock, thru traffic, and so on......or just plain bein' impressive! - al
Al - I'm looking for variations of the Keystone name that PRR used on other PRR passenger train names.
DeggestyZephyrOverlandLooks like the car actually was conveyed on the Pacific Limited from Chicago to Oakland, with the Milwaukee Road doing the honors between Chicago and Omaha - the only Overland Route train to be operated this way at the time, not running on the C&NW. I wonder if there was an error in the listings, or was it a case of the car just being switched from the San Francisco Limited to the Pacific Limited or vise versa and the railroads involved had not gotten their information synchronized. I've seen a number of such discrepancies is various issues of the Official Guide. That's the odd one that I was thinking of. That the Milwaukee had part in an "Overland" train interested me several years ago. So, you have the honor again.
ZephyrOverlandLooks like the car actually was conveyed on the Pacific Limited from Chicago to Oakland, with the Milwaukee Road doing the honors between Chicago and Omaha - the only Overland Route train to be operated this way at the time, not running on the C&NW. I wonder if there was an error in the listings, or was it a case of the car just being switched from the San Francisco Limited to the Pacific Limited or vise versa and the railroads involved had not gotten their information synchronized. I've seen a number of such discrepancies is various issues of the Official Guide.
That's the odd one that I was thinking of. That the Milwaukee had part in an "Overland" train interested me several years ago.
So, you have the honor again.
In the years before WWI, when the Overland Limited was the premier Chicago-San Francisco Overland Route train via the Chicago and North Western, the Milwaukee Road tried to get some of the Overland's cachet by operating a Chicago-San Francisco Pullman which connected with the main Overland Limited at Omaha. The name of Milwaukee Road's Chicago-Omaha train? The Overland Limited. Milwaukee Road period advertising featured its Overland Limited and its through San Francisco Pullman, but in the fine print the ads mentioned that their train only connected with UP's train.
DeggestyZephyrOverland Deggesty ZephyrOverlandJohnny, the next question is yours. In January of 1930, it was possible to board a sleeper in San Luis Obispo and step off the same sleeper in Chicago. What was the routing (roads and trains) of this car? The car did not originate or terminate in San Luis Obispo. You would be on the Chicago-Los Angeles Pullman that ran on the Overland Route's San Francisco Limited between Chicago and Oakland and the Southern Pacific Padre between Oakland and Los Angeles. Since the Padre was an overnight train, you would be getting on or off at San Louis Obispo around 2 and 3 in the morning.That's one--but not the car that I was thinking of. It did travel in the Padre between Oakland and Los Angeles, but a different train, with closer connections, handled it east of Oakland. For some reason, the SP does not show this car in its representation even though the SP shows the train that handled it, and it is shown in the representations of the other roads that handled it.
ZephyrOverland Deggesty ZephyrOverlandJohnny, the next question is yours. In January of 1930, it was possible to board a sleeper in San Luis Obispo and step off the same sleeper in Chicago. What was the routing (roads and trains) of this car? The car did not originate or terminate in San Luis Obispo. You would be on the Chicago-Los Angeles Pullman that ran on the Overland Route's San Francisco Limited between Chicago and Oakland and the Southern Pacific Padre between Oakland and Los Angeles. Since the Padre was an overnight train, you would be getting on or off at San Louis Obispo around 2 and 3 in the morning.
Deggesty ZephyrOverlandJohnny, the next question is yours. In January of 1930, it was possible to board a sleeper in San Luis Obispo and step off the same sleeper in Chicago. What was the routing (roads and trains) of this car? The car did not originate or terminate in San Luis Obispo.
ZephyrOverlandJohnny, the next question is yours.
In January of 1930, it was possible to board a sleeper in San Luis Obispo and step off the same sleeper in Chicago. What was the routing (roads and trains) of this car? The car did not originate or terminate in San Luis Obispo.
You would be on the Chicago-Los Angeles Pullman that ran on the Overland Route's San Francisco Limited between Chicago and Oakland and the Southern Pacific Padre between Oakland and Los Angeles. Since the Padre was an overnight train, you would be getting on or off at San Louis Obispo around 2 and 3 in the morning.
Looks like the car actually was conveyed on the Pacific Limited from Chicago to Oakland, with the Milwaukee Road doing the honors between Chicago and Omaha - the only Overland Route train to be operated this way at the time, not running on the C&NW. I wonder if there was an error in the listings, or was it a case of the car just being switched from the San Francisco Limited to the Pacific Limited or vise versa and the railroads involved had not gotten their information synchronized. I've seen a number of such discrepancies in various issues of the Official Guide.
ZephyrOverland Deggesty ZephyrOverlandJohnny, the next question is yours. In January of 1930, it was possible to board a sleeper in San Luis Obispo and step off the same sleeper in Chicago. What was the routing (roads and trains) of this car? The car did not originate or terminate in San Luis Obispo. You would be on the Chicago-Los Angeles Pullman that ran on the Overland Route's San Francisco Limited between Chicago and Oakland and the Padre between Oakland and Los Angeles. Since the Padre was an overnight train, you would be getting on or off at San Louis Obispo around 2 and 3 in the morning.
You would be on the Chicago-Los Angeles Pullman that ran on the Overland Route's San Francisco Limited between Chicago and Oakland and the Padre between Oakland and Los Angeles. Since the Padre was an overnight train, you would be getting on or off at San Louis Obispo around 2 and 3 in the morning.
DeggestyZephyrOverlandJohnny, the next question is yours. In January of 1930, it was possible to board a sleeper in San Luis Obispo and step off the same sleeper in Chicago. What was the routing (roads and trains) of this car? The car did not originate or terminate in San Luis Obispo.
ZephyrOverlandThere were at least two Chicago-West Coast passenger trains that were operated on modified routings for a time in an attempt to gain additional passenger revenue. In one instance, the train was eventually discontinued. In the other instance, the train was rerouted back to its "traditional" routing. Name the trains, endpoints, the normal and modified routing and the approximate year(s) this occurred.===Johnny, you got the right train. From mid-1928 to mid-1930, the Californian was operated from Chicago to Kansas City on the Chicago & Alton, where the Rock Island and Southern Pacific took the train the rest of the way to Los Angeles. I have to admit a faux pas at this point. The clue I gave gives the impression that the train was rerouted. In actuality, the Californian was a Kansas City-Los Angeles train that was extended to Chicago via the Chicago & Alton. I just found this out tonight when I was confirming the facts. But, there was a precedent - the Golden State Limited was rerouted in early 1906 for a short time via the Chicago & Alton, but from Joliet to Kansas City. The Rock Island still took the train from Chicago to Joliet and from Kansas City southward. As for the Californian, the train was discontinued on the RI and SP in late 1930 (leaving the Golden State Limited and Apache on the traditional Golden State Route), but the Chicago & Alton portion remained as a Chicago-Kansas City train for a few months longer. The Californian was restored a few years later on the more well known RI-SP routing.
There were at least two Chicago-West Coast passenger trains that were operated on modified routings for a time in an attempt to gain additional passenger revenue. In one instance, the train was eventually discontinued. In the other instance, the train was rerouted back to its "traditional" routing. Name the trains, endpoints, the normal and modified routing and the approximate year(s) this occurred.
===
Johnny answered the second portion with the Californian. The other train I was looking for was Milwaukee Road's Columbian. In February 1931, the Columbian was rerouted from its usual Chicago-Minneapolis-Pacific Coast routing to its Omaha line from Chicago to Manilla, Iowa. From there the train traveled northwest until it rejoined the Pacific Coast Extension at Aberdeen, South Dakota. I think this was a way for the Milwaukee Road to readjust its passenger offerings in light of the deepening economic downturn - the train was combined with the Olympian between Butte and Seattle-Tacoma and the westbound run was combined with the Pacific Limited between Manilla and Chicago. This lasted only for a few months - by May 1931, the Columbian was gone, but the Manilla-Aberdeen portion remained as a local.
Johnny, the next question is yours.
ZephyrOverlandBut, there was a precedent - the Golden State Limited was rerouted in early 1906 for a short time via the Chicago & Alton, but from Joliet to Kansas City. The Rock Island still took the train from Chicago to Joliet and from Kansas City southward.
That is certainly interesting. If the current arrangement of tracks in Joliet (according to Google Maps) is the same as it was in 1906, the westbound train would come into the station, take on/let off, back out of the station and then move over to the C&A track.
I wonder if the Chicago-Joliet crews worked a suburban service train to make a full day's work.
Deggesty I had never thought of the Chicago and Alton as handling West Coast traffic, so when I was looking through the January, 1930, reprint of the Guide right I after I bought it, I was surprised to find this road handling the Californian between Chicago and Kansas City, where the RI took it on to Tucumcari; I had thought that the RI had always handled it east of Tucumcari. As to the start and stop of this routing, I have no idea.
I had never thought of the Chicago and Alton as handling West Coast traffic, so when I was looking through the January, 1930, reprint of the Guide right I after I bought it, I was surprised to find this road handling the Californian between Chicago and Kansas City, where the RI took it on to Tucumcari; I had thought that the RI had always handled it east of Tucumcari. As to the start and stop of this routing, I have no idea.
Johnny, you got the right train. From mid-1928 to mid-1930, the Californian was operated from Chicago to Kansas City on the Chicago & Alton, where the Rock Island and Southern Pacific took the train the rest of the way to Los Angeles. I have to admit a faux pas at this point. The clue I gave gives the impression that the train was rerouted. In actuality, the Californian was a Kansas City-Los Angeles train that was extended to Chicago via the Chicago & Alton. I just found this out tonight when I was confirming the facts. But, there was a precedent - the Golden State Limited was rerouted in early 1906 for a short time via the Chicago & Alton, but from Joliet to Kansas City. The Rock Island still took the train from Chicago to Joliet and from Kansas City southward. As for the Californian, the train was discontinued on the RI and SP in late 1930 (leaving the Golden State Limited and Apache on the traditional Golden State Route), but the Chicago & Alton portion remained as a Chicago-Kansas City train for a few months longer. The Californian was restored a few years later on the more well known RI-SP routing.
Ill give the other question one more day.
ZephyrOverland- one train was rerouted via a railroad that was not known for operating Chicago-West Coast trains
At the same time, the Continental Limited had, in addition to the Chicago-Portland cars that were handled all the way west of Omaha by the UP, one Chicago-Portland car that was handled by the SP west of Ogden, traversing the Modoc line between Fernley, Nev., and Klamath Falls, Ore. This route was 1272 miles from Granger, Wy., to Portland against 944 miles over the UP. The West Coast carried the car between Portland and Klamath Falls. This, of course, was not a full train.
al-in-chgoZephyrOverland KCSfan ZO, This is just a guess but could the train to the Pacific northwest have been the North Coast Ltd? Its usual route was between Logan and Garrison via Butte. I think there is a likelyhood possibility it was rerouted through Helena for a time but I'm not at all sure of that. I'll work on the train to California later on when I have more time. Mark Another good guess but thats not it. The train I'm thinking of that went to the Pacific Northwest was rerouted from 35-50% of its original route and this routing was never attempted again after this train was discontinued. Just a WAG and I apologize if this has already been ruled out by inference, but could it have been the old NP's mainline train, (perhaps named) the Northcoast Limited, if it (not sure) were in service by that name early enough that it originally ran over different routing until some of that line's worst grades and one particularly bad trestle had to be engineered around, adding miles but also adding more safety?? If that is the case, the last trains to run over full NP routing (actually BN for about the last year IIRC) would have been the Mainstreeter and the North Coast Limited, because when Amtrak came in (5-1-71) it no longer ran passengers trains over the old NP. And today only a fraction of the route is owned outright by BNSF. Montana Rail Link has part of it, and I think there's another short-line or short-line franchise, and some of it has been just taken up and gone like the old CMStP&P.
ZephyrOverland KCSfan ZO, This is just a guess but could the train to the Pacific northwest have been the North Coast Ltd? Its usual route was between Logan and Garrison via Butte. I think there is a likelyhood possibility it was rerouted through Helena for a time but I'm not at all sure of that. I'll work on the train to California later on when I have more time. Mark Another good guess but thats not it. The train I'm thinking of that went to the Pacific Northwest was rerouted from 35-50% of its original route and this routing was never attempted again after this train was discontinued.
KCSfan ZO, This is just a guess but could the train to the Pacific northwest have been the North Coast Ltd? Its usual route was between Logan and Garrison via Butte. I think there is a likelyhood possibility it was rerouted through Helena for a time but I'm not at all sure of that. I'll work on the train to California later on when I have more time. Mark
ZO,
This is just a guess but could the train to the Pacific northwest have been the North Coast Ltd? Its usual route was between Logan and Garrison via Butte. I think there is a likelyhood possibility it was rerouted through Helena for a time but I'm not at all sure of that.
I'll work on the train to California later on when I have more time.
Mark
Another good guess but thats not it. The train I'm thinking of that went to the Pacific Northwest was rerouted from 35-50% of its original route and this routing was never attempted again after this train was discontinued.
Just a WAG and I apologize if this has already been ruled out by inference, but could it have been the old NP's mainline train, (perhaps named) the Northcoast Limited, if it (not sure) were in service by that name early enough that it originally ran over different routing until some of that line's worst grades and one particularly bad trestle had to be engineered around, adding miles but also adding more safety??
If that is the case, the last trains to run over full NP routing (actually BN for about the last year IIRC) would have been the Mainstreeter and the North Coast Limited, because when Amtrak came in (5-1-71) it no longer ran passengers trains over the old NP. And today only a fraction of the route is owned outright by BNSF. Montana Rail Link has part of it, and I think there's another short-line or short-line franchise, and some of it has been just taken up and gone like the old CMStP&P.
The North Coast Limited was mentioned earlier and that is not one of the answers I am looking for.
Again, I'm looking for two trains that had unusual reroutes.
- both trains were heavyweight runs when this occurred...
- one train went to California, and the other one went to the Pacific Northwest
- one train was discontinued soon after its reroute
- these reroutes were never attempted again
more hints -
- one train was rerouted via a railroad that was not known for operating Chicago-West Coast trains...
- both trains were secondary runs on their routes
CSSHEGEWISCHThe "City of Portland" was originally a reasonably direct Chicago-Portland run. When it was combined with the "City of Denver" (date unknown), it was rerouted to Chicago-Denver-Ogden-Portland. Sometime in the mid to late 1960's, it returned to its original route on UP and the "City of Denver" was separated at Julesburg.
The "City of Portland" was originally a reasonably direct Chicago-Portland run. When it was combined with the "City of Denver" (date unknown), it was rerouted to Chicago-Denver-Ogden-Portland. Sometime in the mid to late 1960's, it returned to its original route on UP and the "City of Denver" was separated at Julesburg.
Another good guess - see my reply for Daveklepper
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