There is a New York Central Employee Magazine published until 1932. Then there is the " The Headlight" starting in 1940. This leaves a gap of 7-8 years, which I cannot find either on the CASO site or the NYC Historical group site.
Other than that all I get is an endless amount of E Bay sites.
So I shall guess- Seneca or Oneida, Delaware, Onondaga, Chippewa, St. Lawrence, .maybe even Cuyahoga , but that's in Ohio but it is Lake Erie related... I think David's guess of Cayuga was in the ballpark.
Firelock Wayne's suggestion to me was "Flop" which although doubtful is accurate.
Maybe 16 wheeler, 800 class, VHP ( very high pressure), WTE ( worst thing ever)
The name was given before 1932.
The H S-1a was far from a 'flop' -- it operated very successfully in initial tests, before the groundswell of 'negative enthusiasm' for that ominous 850psi dial began building. As a larger, more capable, much more fuel-efficient early Mohawk it might have succeeded nicely ... but the early Mohawks got dramatically obsoleted right around this time by the improving state of the 'conventional two-cylinder art' that replaced any reason for three-cylinder engines with duplexes, and then any reason for multicylinder non-articulated engines with big simples of intelligent detail design...
Compare the Gresley high-pressure engine of about this time, as well as the LMS Fury, when looking at hopes and expectations from higher-pressure compound operation. We see an interestingly different trend on B&O, where the attempt is to use marginally higher pressure from a watertube firebox only (up to about 350psi) in two-cylinder simples ... didn't go too far there, either, and certainly not after Emerson retired.
Ok ,thanks , good tip, now someone search all the NYC Employee Magazines from 1932 and down . I have to go grocery shopping and prep up for tomorrow first day back from Winter Break. 4 hours face time in 3 subjects and groggy students ( and instructors) .
I'll be glad to be all the way down in the Mid-South when you find the answer.
The NYC October 1931 Employee Magazine has a near full page article on the debut of the #800, quite the write up but no mention of a name.
HOWEVER...Know Thy Niagaras does... it was called a Niagara! How about that. Man that sucks.
OvermodThe H S-1a was far from a 'flop' -- it operated very successfully in initial tests, before the groundswell of 'negative enthusiasm' for that ominous 850psi dial began building.
Sound like another victim who was wrongfully accused, intentionally or not, with historical facts back up or not... Just as the PRR T1 has been described as a class of crazy slipping Michael Jackson-Moonwalking machine until recent years. And I read somewhere that a dude post message like the PRR S1 was scraped immediately after the World Fair due to its gigantic size. Thanks to Wiki, people who actually care about the specific topic could provide historical facts to put an end to rumors, including conventional knowledge that was built upon misinformation.
So what was the name of NYC HS-1a #800? Miningman, I know you will find it!
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
It was called a Niagara. I will get even with that scoundrel. Perhaps a question about Burkina Faso!
See Page 1 ( that's one, as in page 1) of 'Know Thy Niagaras'
http://anyflip.com/aspq/rehi
LOL, She was "The First Niagara"!
Ain't he a stinker!!!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Did not receive an acknowledgment that this was the answer sought out but I'll assume it is an proceed onto the next question.
Two Eastern titans of the rails had named passenger service from large urban areas, one of them fed in by several branch lines on route, terminating in a much much smaller location. They were a big deal pre WWII, then put on hold during the war years, then reinstated and re-equipped after the war years. Initially very successful they went into decline fairly rapidly and discontinued in the early 60's, the first in '61 followed a year less a day by the other.
In the last years of operation the second to discontinue claimed its named train averaged ten people per trip. Another sad tale of iconic well known service faded into lore and relegated to history.
The endpoint is not exactly a place 'associated' with these biggies, far from metro areas, coalfields and their usual places of doing business.
Perhaps the folks today wish they were still available.
What were the trains names, origins and endpoints?
Hoping the question is not too vague.
MiningmanDid not receive an acknowledgment that this was the answer sought out...
Why would you think one was necessary ... for such an obviously correct answer?
(cue quiet but maniacal satisfied laughter...)
Two Eastern titans of the rails had named passenger service from large urban areas, one of them fed in by several branch lines on route, terminating in a much much smaller location. What were the trains names, origins and endpoints? Hoping the question is not too vague.
Won't be. It's a good question for people with full OGs.
This is almost certainly going to be a society or 'spa' destination, like French Lick or White Sulfur Springs or even some point in the Mohawk and Malone service area. Maintaining a 'name train' with only an average of 10 passengers will be a strong clue. It does not escape my mistrustful eye that Canadian Eastern titans of the rails may be involved.
No, no Canadian Roads involved at all.
PRR "Northern Arrow" to Mackinaw City, with cars originating in Cincinnati, Columbus, St. Louis, and Chicago. The first to be withdrawn, in 1961.
NYC's "Timberliner" lasted a bit longer, on its Detroit-Mackinaw City run.
I had first thought of the Laurentian ski trains from Montreal, but they didn't fit.
We have a win-nah! You bet, bang on.
The TIMBERLINER was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever leave Mackinaw City. A few minutes earlier the daily RDC3 BEELINER had arrived from Detroit. It was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever arrive at Mackinaw City. As soon as the RDC3 was unloaded, it was coupled to the rear of the TIMBERLINER where it can be seen just a few moments before the final passenger train departed.
I have pics of both trains on their final runs but they are buried among my Imgur pics and there are a lot. I will post them sometime soon in the future.
The PRR Northern Arrow was a really long train, even its final run, as it picked up cars from many cities along its route.
The NYC filed for discontinuance the same year as the Pennsy in 1961 citing an average of 12 riders but was turned down. They tried again a year later and this time said 10 riders per average trip and that was the magic number. The BeeLiners fate was attached to the Timberliner and Sept. 3/62 both left together as explained above and Mackinaw City passenger was over.
There were some rumours and stories that NYC ran a few trips in '63 but it is unconfirmed, makes little sense and likely folklore.
Miningman The TIMBERLINER was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever leave Mackinaw City. A few minutes earlier the daily RDC3 BEELINER had arrived from Detroit. It was the LAST scheduled NYC passenger train to ever arrive at Mackinaw City. As soon as the RDC3 was unloaded, it was coupled to the rear of the TIMBERLINER where it can be seen just a few moments before the final passenger train departed.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/626813/
Is that a friend of yours beside the locomotive? Looks a little young to be you.
I'll try to post a question by tomorrow evening.
Future railfan, or already one. Yeah that's one of the pics all right. Only 3 cars but all are quite interesting.
I think I posted that Pennsy pic on Classic before. It's a really long train.
At the time of the Timberliner's last run (see previous question), what was the longest scheduled Budd RDC run in North America?
Railroad and endpoints please.
Well you specified North America so that rules out Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie from Down Under, a distance of 1,052 miles.
The Western Pacific Zephyrette Salt Lake City to Oakland was 917 miles but maybe it was discontinued a couple of years before the Timberland.
So I will go with Rock Island's Choctaw Rocket 761 miles between Memphis and Amarillo.
Pacific Great Easterns North Vancouver to Prince George was a big one too at around 500 miles.
Man all of those are a long way to go in a Budd car.
PGE had the amenities and on-board service that made the experience more pleasant.
That Western Pacific trains 1 and 2 ran into part of 1960; someone will have the exact date. That's still well short of the last Timberliner.
Keep in mind that the Choctaw Rocket was an E6-hauled Pullman Standard consist; the RDC train up to 1958 was the Choctaw Rockette. (I don't know if it had a 'name' after that...)
Theoretically, at least (on the theory that nobody rides a local-accommodation train end to end by particular choice) it would have been possible to run the Cherokee with RDC equipment. Had this been done with the sort of amenities provided by the WP or the B&O Speedliners, it might not have been so bad ... no, wait, an RDC on the Rock's deteriorating jointed rail all the way via Tucumcari to Los Angeles? Maybe not...
Hard to believe that whole 'parallel' route west from Memphis is gone.
All of the former Rock Island from Memphis is gone?... Suppose that is not surprising but sometimes it's one of those things you just don't want to accept, best not to know.
MiningmanAll of the former Rock Island from Memphis is gone?
There may be some small portions of it in use. The astounding thing is that something as valuable as a 'route of the 35th Parallel' was not seen as a strategic asset to be kept ... does this remind you of a certain northern equivalent similarly 'removed from the board'?
The route was valuable enough to be considered as one of the five choices for the original Pacific Railroad survey (in the mid-1850s). It's interesting to look at the historical forces that left it relatively unsuccessful as a line to the West.
Holee CASO Batman! One would think in terms of National Security and economic expedience but I suppose the railroads are so yesterday.
Not smart, important asset.
If my memory serves me correctly, the RDC that ran as part of the "Twin Star Rocket" started south from Kansas City as the rider coach on what had become primarily a mail and express run and ran on its own from further south to terminate in Dallas-Fort Worth.
CSSHEGEWISCHIf my memory serves me correctly, the RDC that ran as part of the "Twin Star Rocket" started south from Kansas City as the rider coach on what had become primarily a mail and express run and ran on its own from further south to terminate in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Problem with this is that even if it 'counts' all the way from KC, the mileage to Dallas is considerably shorter than that of the (acknowledged valid here) Choctaw 'Rockette'.
Distance to Dallas is an indicated 625 miles. Fort Worth is shorter at 591. (This from 1957; I doubt it would be appreciably longer by 1961 or so)
Now, if the RDC-as-rider connected through from the Twin Cities, or even a point further south, then you'd be able to add a proportional share of the 489 miles to get to KC... but I suspect that's not the case.
Note that the Twin Star Rocket actually connected with the Choctaw Rockette in El Reno, OK (which is an indicated 380 miles south of KC). So if we extend the question slightly to allow changing from one RDC to another, we get 893 miles as the combined route...
CRI&P's RDC-3s assigned to the 762 mile Choctaw Rockette run didn't lose their motors until the train was discontinued on August 7, 1964. The de-motored RDC-3s were then assigned to the "Cherokee" where they ran until 1967. The two cars assigned to the Kansas City Rocket were stored after the train was discontinued south of Wichita in late 1962, eventually being traded to GE as partial payment for U25Bs.
The Choctaw also had a prewar observation car available for overflow, with a baggage room cut into the blind end. RI used it even though it voided the Budd warranty.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1928554
Miningman So I will go with Rock Island's Choctaw Rocket 761 miles between Memphis and Amarillo.
That's it, though it had been nameless since 1958, as noted above. Perhaps Rock Island should have tried a co-branding initiative with the dancers.....
Miningman Pacific Great Easterns North Vancouver to Prince George was a big one too at around 500 miles.
PGE ran scheduled passenger trains north of Prince George for a brief time, and I have seen photos of a RDC loading mail, express and passengers at Dawson Creek (I doubt they made a good connection with what remained of the Northern Alberta's passenger service).
The total mileage from North Vancouver to Dawson Creek is 724 miles, and going the other way to Fort St. John is 728 miles. So the 'Rockette' would still win out even if the PGE Budds ran though Prince George (I don't believe they did, but I could be wrong).
728 miles .. wow , guess I was thinking Kilometers and did a quick conversion in my head. That's pretty close to the Rock Island run. Was that also a named train...The Caribou? I think so.
Will post a new question soon enough.
I believe the 'Cariboo' was the only officially named PGE/BC Rail train, though there were numerous nicknames.
I had not heard this one until now:
https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1950/6/1/green-light-for-the-crazy-quilt-express#!&pid=14
SD70DudePerhaps Rock Island should have tried a co-branding initiative with the dancers.....
You mean go Union Pacific one better and paint on the equipment "We Can-Can Handle It"?
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