This does look interesting. Mark jumped in and named seventeen routes--but unless the UP has made a great change recently, it is still possible to take the T&P between Ft. Worth and Sierra Blanca.
Also, the Silver Comet did not go to Montgomery, unless it was detoured after Champion Davis started supplying power for the former ACL headquarters in Jacksonville (after the ACL and SAL became the SCL). Its route is no longer intact west of Atlanta, though. Mark, were you thinking of the SAL's line across South Georgia?
The IC gained entrance to Birmingham by using the Southern from Haleyville to Jasper (still there), and the SLSF from Jasper to Birmingham (still there).
So far as I know, the Big 4 line from Indianapolis to Terre Haute is still in use.
Thanks, TZ, for your notes. I would expect a short line to be willing to allow a passenger train to run on its track--if it does not have to pay for any upgrade or for the additional maintenance.
Can you come up with more before tomorrow evening?
Johnny
KCSfan One minor correction; The Bluegrass Spcl was a PRR not a Monon train.
One minor correction; The Bluegrass Spcl was a PRR not a Monon train.
The Blue Grass or Bluegrass (what Mike described in his submission) was a Chicago-Louisville Monon train running around 1948. The Blue Grass Special was a PRR Chicago-Louisville train operating in the early 1950's
Deggesty KCSfan LIght up your stogie and shoot us another question, Johnny. Mark We think of the many passenger trains that criss-crossed the nation, and wish they could be running again. But--some could not be operated now, because the tracks are no longer there! Name them, the roads that ran them, and the approximate locations of the abandoned tracks. Some of these lines had more than one train; the name of one is sufficient, but go ahead and name all you know that ran on the same now-gone tracks. Johnny
KCSfan LIght up your stogie and shoot us another question, Johnny. Mark
LIght up your stogie and shoot us another question, Johnny.
Mark
Name them, the roads that ran them, and the approximate locations of the abandoned tracks. Some of these lines had more than one train; the name of one is sufficient, but go ahead and name all you know that ran on the same now-gone tracks.
This is a tall order, and probably also virtually endless. There is a good stab already posted but it also underscores the problem of answering: you did not restrict the question to "famous named trains" or "premier train of a given road". Thus each road has lots of trains, and like in the case of the PRR or NYC or SF, for instance, many many trains and many full and partial routes.
I'll tackle the DL&W where you had the east and westbound Phoebe Snow (formerly the Lackawanna Limited) Hoboken to Buffalo. Today the original main line, the Cut Off in NJ, is gone as is the track west of Willow Point in Vestal, NY. There is some switching track in Elmira off the present NS yard. The main line west from Elmira Heights is gone, was gone, but was a new line built on the right of way from west of Big Flats through Gibson and into Corning where the Erie line is reassumed. West (north) of Painted Post the line reemerges and is in to Wayland. Other stretches of track exist in spots as sidings, spurs, and industrial tracks from Mt. Morris to East Buffalo. In addition to Miss Phoebe, these tracks hosted westbound trains #5 The Twilight, #7 The Westerner, and #15 the Owl; eastabound trains were #8 The New Yorker, #10 The New York Mail, and #4 The Pocono Express. There was a Binghamton Hoboken milk round trip dialy, eastbound #44, and westbound #47, and the Scranton pair, #26 east as The Merchants Express and #11 west as the Scrantonian. The Syracuse branch is exant Binghamton to the CSX (nee CR, nee PC, nee NYC0 connections in Syracuse but cut off to the State Fair Grounds where the track is in place almost into Oswego. The Utica Branch is gone from Chenango Forks to Norwich due to washouts, and is out of service on to Sherburn but intact into Utica; the Richfield Springs Branch isd long ripped up. The Bloom is in in many places in the Scranton-Wilkes Barre corridor but not beyond Nanticoke to Berwick where there is a shortline operating on to Northumberland (a Pittsburg train used this line).
So if all named trains and their former routes were described, we'd have a lot of research done for some kind of book! But I am anxious to read the stories....
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KCSfanRocky Mountain Rocket CRI&P - abandoned KC to Denver & Colorado Springs
From Limon west to Colorado Springs the old RI was the Cadillac and Lake City short line for a while. Is that truly abandon now? I know the owner had a heart attack back in the late 1980s and couldn't keep up with it. The Big Sur Waterbeds manufacturing plant depended on it.
KCSfanColorado Eagle - MoPac - abandoned Denver to KC
Royal Gorge - D&RGW - abandoned Canon City to Dotsero
Johnny,
I'll take a stab at a few of them but I'm not at all sure where the tracks are abandoned. Some may still be in place and are today a short line railroad or a secondary of one of the big Class I's.
North Coast Ltd. - NP - parts of mainline between Minneapolis and Pacific Northwest abandoned
Olympian Hiawatha - CMStP&P - abandoned west of Minneapolis
Rocky Mountain Rocket CRI&P - abandoned KC to Denver & Colorado Springs
Colorado Eagle - MoPac - abandoned Denver to KC
Texas Eagle - T&P - abandoned Ft.W to El Paso
Katy Flyer - MKT - abandoned Parstons - StL
City of Miami - IC - abandoned Jackson, TN to B'ham
Silver Meteor - SAL - parts of "S" line abandoned between Richmond and Jax
Silver Comet SAL - abandoned Atl to Montgomery (maybe Atl- Hamlet as well)
City of Memphis - NC&StL - abandoned Memphis to Bruceton
The Georgian/Humming Bird - L&N - abandoned StL to Evansville
The Westerner - NKP - abandoned StL to Frankfort
Erie Ltd - Erie - abandoned Chi to ?
North Shore Ltd. - NYC - CASO abandoned Buffalo to Detroit
Southwestern Ltd - NYC - abandoned Indy to StL
Phoebe Snow - DL&W - abandoned ?
Jonh Wilkes - LV - abandoned ?
Boy you guys are good. Johnny is our winner having identified 15 trains and Mike is a close second with 8. The only train that I had on my list which you failed to mention was the NH's Nutmeg running between Boston and Waterbury (Yes, Nutmeg is the name of a tree which provides us with the spice of the same name.) One minor correction; The Bluegrass Spcl was a PRR not a Monon train.
Potatoland Special - Bangor & Aroostock - Bangor to Van Buren
Cranberry - NH - Boston to Woods Hole
Camellia - PRR,RF&P,SAL - New York to Miami
Palmland - PRR,RF&P,SAL - New York to Miami
Goldenrod - SR - Birmingham to Mobile
Sycamore - NYC - Cincinnati to Chicago
Bluegrass - Monon - Chicago to Louisville
Corn Belt Rocket - RI - Chicago to Omaha
Good start Johnny, you've named a majority of them that I know of. Let's keep this open for a short while and see if anyone can come up with the rest of them.
KCSfan OK here's the next question. A number of passenger trains had common species of flora (plants, trees, etc.) in their names. Name as many as you can that ran sometime during the 1945-1959 time period together with the railroads that operated them and the end points of their routes. US trains only please. Mark
OK here's the next question.
A number of passenger trains had common species of flora (plants, trees, etc.) in their names. Name as many as you can that ran sometime during the 1945-1959 time period together with the railroads that operated them and the end points of their routes. US trains only please.
Azalea–L&N, Cincinnati-Memphis/New Orleans
Palmetto–RF&P/ACL, Washington-Augusta/Savannah
Cotton Blossom–RF&P/SAL, Washington-Birmingham
Pine Tree--B&M/MeC, Boston-Bangor
Maple Leaf–Lehigh/CN, NYC/Philadelphia-Toronto/Buffalo
Royal Palm–Sou, Cincinnati-Jacksonville
New Royal Palm–NYC/Sou/FEC, Detroit-Miami
Orange Blossom Special–PRR/RF&P/SAL, NYC-Miami
Buckeye–PRR, Columbus-Chicago
Peach Queen–Sou, Washington-Atlanta
Land O’Corn–IC, Chicago-Sioux City
Bluebonnet–MKT, Kansas City-Ft. Worth/San Antonio
Sunflower–MoP, St. Louis-Omaha/Wichita
Portland Rose–UP, Kansas City-Portland
Columbine–C&NW/UP, Chicago-Denver
Johnny (Fauna, not Flora)
Very exoteric indeed!
ZephyrOverland In 1946, a section of the Sunshine Special became a through Texas-New York train via PRR, running through St. Louis instead of beginning or ending there. This was not a first. Name the train, railroad(s), and the endpoints of another train that operated THROUGH St. Louis instead of beginning or ending there, and predated the New York Sunshine Special service.Bonus question - Because of the establishment of the above train in question, another railroad began a similar service but it shared only one endpoint with the other train (the other endpoint for this train was near the endpoint of the above train). This other train did not run through St. Louis, but it did have through cars to and from St. Louis. Name this train, the railroad(s) and endpoints.
In 1946, a section of the Sunshine Special became a through Texas-New York train via PRR, running through St. Louis instead of beginning or ending there. This was not a first. Name the train, railroad(s), and the endpoints of another train that operated THROUGH St. Louis instead of beginning or ending there, and predated the New York Sunshine Special service.
Bonus question - Because of the establishment of the above train in question, another railroad began a similar service but it shared only one endpoint with the other train (the other endpoint for this train was near the endpoint of the above train). This other train did not run through St. Louis, but it did have through cars to and from St. Louis. Name this train, the railroad(s) and endpoints.
Mark - you actually tripped over the answer in terms of the railroads involved, but you were two generations ahead.
The answer to the above question is:
Havana Limited - Chicago-Mobile - Chicago & Alton/Mobile & Ohio
The answer to the bonus question is:
Cuban Special - Chicago/St. Louis-New Orleans - Illinois Central
Both trains existed around 1906. When I first came across these names I was wondering - "Why were these trains named this way?" I knew the IC exploited their accessibility to destinations beyond New Orleans with the naming of the Panama Limited in 1911, but the Havana Limited began in January 1906. From some historical investigation I think I can piece together a possible scenario.
1) The concept of winter seasonal train service was beginning to take hold from New York to Florida and from Chicago and New Orleans west (the California Limited, Sunset Limited and the Golden State Limited were originally winter season trains).
2) Between 1906 and 1909, Cuba was occupied by US forces after they routed the Cuban dictator then in power.
3) Sensing a commercial freight and passenger travel opportunity to a now more secure location (and seeing what Flagler was doing in Florida in developing the Key West Extension), the above mentioned railroads started priming the travel pump by establishing these trains and advertising the delights of vacationing in Cuba, providing an alternative to west coast travel for midwesterners. One could take the Havana Limited and a connecting ship and be in Havana in 60 hours, as opposed a longer trip going to the west coast.
I don't think this bet paid off well. After running as a de-luxe Pullman winter seasonal train for the 1905-06 and 1906-07 seasons, the Havana Limited became a daily coach and Pullman St. Louis- Mobile operation sometime in 1907 and lasting until 1908. The de luxe all-Pullman Cuban Special didn't make it past the winter season of 1906-1907.
Mark - since you were the closest to the answer, why don't you ask the next question?
Could it have been through service to Kansas City from Chicago via St. Louis? Seems unlikely, but might be possible.
Iron Mountain to Texarkana?
http://www.raremaps.com/maps/medium/19200.jpg
We can rule out the Cotton Belt because it did run to Texas. The GM&O at one time ran a through sleeper between Mobile and Chicago via St. Louis. It believe it ran in the consist of the Gulf Coast Rebel and in Alton trains between StL and Chicago but that was a single car not a train so I guess that is not the answer you're looking for. I'm at a loss to think of any other service through StL that meets the paramaters of your question and the replies that you and others have posted.
daveklepperOK, we have eliminated the Frisco and the Missouri Pacific as contenders for runniing a through train over the Chicago and Alton from St. Louis to Chicago, so that leaves us with the Missouri Kansas Texas, the Katy. I think their crack train was simply called the Katy Flyer, but my memory isn't perfect. They may have called it the Texas Katy Flyer or something similar. And not having access to the Texas and Paciifc, it may have used the Fort Worth and Denver of the Burlington system for part of its southern journey. Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio are all possibilities for a southern temrinal, and it may have even used Sante Fe trackage to reach Houston.
OK, we have eliminated the Frisco and the Missouri Pacific as contenders for runniing a through train over the Chicago and Alton from St. Louis to Chicago, so that leaves us with the Missouri Kansas Texas, the Katy. I think their crack train was simply called the Katy Flyer, but my memory isn't perfect. They may have called it the Texas Katy Flyer or something similar. And not having access to the Texas and Paciifc, it may have used the Fort Worth and Denver of the Burlington system for part of its southern journey. Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio are all possibilities for a southern temrinal, and it may have even used Sante Fe trackage to reach Houston.
The Katy is not the answer either. Its actually a smaller road that didn't go to Texas.
I'll give this another day - at that point I'll reveal the answer.
daveklepperDid not at one time the Texas Eagle or Texas Special operate through to Chicago, with southern points Houston (or Dallas or Fort Worth) and San Antonio (or El Paso), using the GM&O or the Alton northeast of St. Louis and MP and T&P from there? I presume the Frisco may have tried to compete with a similar train, but have zero idea what its name was or which railroad was used north of St. Louis
Did not at one time the Texas Eagle or Texas Special operate through to Chicago, with southern points Houston (or Dallas or Fort Worth) and San Antonio (or El Paso), using the GM&O or the Alton northeast of St. Louis and MP and T&P from there? I presume the Frisco may have tried to compete with a similar train, but have zero idea what its name was or which railroad was used north of St. Louis
The Texas Eagle and Texas Special never operated north of St. Louis. They may have carried through sleepers to and from Chicago, but that's about it.
As for the Frisco, in order to extend their marketing reach to Chicago without actually running through trains there, had the C&EI name their newly established Chicago-St. Louis trains the Frisco Express, Frisco Special and Frisco Limited. It can be surmised that the Frisco thought they could funnel Chicago traffic through the C&EI. This occurred when they had control of the Chicago and Eastern Illinois (1902-1913.)
You touched on part of the answer: north of St. Louis the through train operated via the Chicago & Alton.
Your question Zephyr Overland
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan Name the longest east coast north -south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. Name the longest west coast north-south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. and name the longest midwest north south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name? Al - in - Stockton
Name the longest east coast north -south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. Name the longest west coast north-south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. and name the longest midwest north south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name?
East Coast - Havana Special - PRR/RFP/ACL/FEC - New York-Key West
West Coast - West Coast - SP - Los Angeles-Portland
Midwest - Twin Star Rocket - RI - Minneapolis-Houston
OK, I think it's time to wrap this question up. The score follows:
Paul - 3 trains - Gopher, Badger & Wolverine
Dave - 1 train - Pony Exp ( an Owl is a bird not a mammal and I believe the Polar Bear was not a US train but ran north from Sault Ste. Marie all in Canada)
Mike - 2 trains - Antelope & Beaver (while equine related the Nancy Hanks, Man 'o War and Thoroughbred are not animal species)
I know of two other trains that nobody mentioned; the NYC/CP Toronto-Buffalo Exp and the NYC/P&LE Pittsburg-Buffalo Exp (or maybe it was the Buffalo-Pittsburg Exp)
Al-in Stockton is our winner with 6 trains - Buffalo Day Exp, Buffalo Ltd, Buffalo Mail, Sea Lion, Dolphin & New England Wolverine. Light up your stogie and ask the next question, Al.
Not a mammel, but of interest, the Clamdigger, the all-tops NY - Boston, later New Haven - Boston Shore Line route NYNH&H local.
Buffalo Day Express (PRR) Washington - Buffalo
Buffalo Limited (NYC) Pittsburgh - Buffalo
Buffalo Mail (DL&W) New York - Buffalo
Sea Lion (PRR/Reading Seashore Lines) New York - Atlantic City
Dolphin (PRR/Reading Seashore Lines) New York - Atlantic City
New England Wolverine (NYC) Boston - Chicago
Antelope (AT&SF) Kansas City to Oklahoma City
Beaver (SP) Oakland to Portland
Man O' War (C of G) Atlanta to Columbus
Nancy Hanks II (C of G) Atlanta to Savannah
Thoroughbred (Monon) Chicago to Louisville
Polar Bear, Algoma and Hudson Bay Winnapeg - Churchill?
Is the Owl a mammal? NY - Boston, NYNH&H
Pony Express, UP, C&NW Chicago - LA
I'll start here:
Gopher/Badger, GN, Minneapolis-Duluth
Wolverine, NYC, Chicago-New York via Detroit
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