I don't have the research material at all handy, and would probably have to explore the web (might be a fruitless search) to find National de Mexicano history. I know European self-propelled railcars were built for a private railroad with lots of scenery in the western Mexican pennisular, but that isn't what the question refers to. Chiwawa Pacific? Spelling?)
I think the translation was done with a sense of joy and accomplishment, so it was a reward, not a punishment. May all good deeds be treated similarly henceforth and forever, Amen.
daveklepper Better he should just ask the next question!
Better he should just ask the next question!
But, he came through with a new question, which I trust you will answer immediately.
Johnny
CRI&P GOLDEN ROCKET cars
VALLE VERDE -GREEN VALLEY
VALLE VISTA - VIEW VALLEY
VALLE MAR - OCEAN VALLEY or SEA VALLEY
EL CAFE -THE CAFE
EL COMEDOR - THE DINING ROOM
LA COSTA - THE COAST
LA JOLLA - THE JEWEL
LA PALMA - THE PALM
LA QUINTA - THE INN
LA MIRADA - THE DWELLING
THE SP SET
VALLE RIO GRANDE - RIO GRANDE VALLEY
VALLE DEL SOL - SUN VALLEY
VALLE IMPERIAL - IMPERIAL VALLEY
EL CAFE FRONTERO - THE FRONT CAFE
LA FONDA - THE SMALL RESTAURANT
MONTE SANTA RITA - MOUNT SANTA RITA
MONTE SAN JACINTO - MOUNT SAN JACINTO
MONTE SANTA CATALINA - MOUNT SANTA CATALINA
MONTE CHIRICAHUA - MOUNT CHIRICAHUA
LA GALERIA - THE GALLERY
My question is three train sets were built in a European country for service in Mexico. Name the train they were built for who built them and name the sleeping cars and types of sleeping cars?
Al - in - Stockton
I was planning on taking the car names to the office this AM where I have four beautiful young ladies who are all fluent in Spanish and have the answers when I return. Some of the Spanish I know such as Valle Verde in English would be Green Valley. I should have the rest before noon including the proposed SP cars. Then I will pose a question that should have everyone diving for research material.
passengerfan I believe the trains you are talking about were the jointly owned SP/CRI&P Golden Rockets. There were to be two train sets one each owned by each road. Only the CRI&P train set was built by Pullman Standard. They were to have entered service between Chicago and Los Angeles in late 1947. The RI train set was completed as follows: 820 Baggage 24 Crew Dormitory Car 347 VALLE VERDE 48-Seat Leg Rest Coach 348 VALLE VISTA 48 - Seat Leg Rest Coach 349 VALLE MAR 48 -Seat Leg Rest Coach 412 EL CAFE "Fiesta" Coffee Shop Tavern Lounge Car 428 EL COMEDOR 36 Seat Dining Car 660 LA COSTA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car LA JOLLA 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car LA PALMA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car LA QUINTA 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room Sleeping Car LA MIRADA 2-Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation. The RI trainset made one trip to Los Angeles for promotional purposes and never carried any revenue passengers under the Golden Rocket name. The idea was the two train sets would operate on a 39-3/4 hour schedule to match the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles but it was never to be. The SP never completed there train set and the schedule could not have been met without ATS on the SP portion of the trackage from Tucumcari to Los Angeles. Instead the Golden Rocket cars went into Golden State service still lettered for the train that never was the Golden Rocket. PS I just finished the final tax return for a client this afternoon so will have more time on my hands until the mad house starts all over in January 2010. Its been an especially long tax season this year and I have never had so many clients on extension as this year. I have a feeling this is going to become a permanent state for taxpayers with more and more going on extension from April 15 to October 15.
I believe the trains you are talking about were the jointly owned SP/CRI&P Golden Rockets. There were to be two train sets one each owned by each road. Only the CRI&P train set was built by Pullman Standard. They were to have entered service between Chicago and Los Angeles in late 1947. The RI train set was completed as follows:
820 Baggage 24 Crew Dormitory Car
347 VALLE VERDE 48-Seat Leg Rest Coach
348 VALLE VISTA 48 - Seat Leg Rest Coach
349 VALLE MAR 48 -Seat Leg Rest Coach
412 EL CAFE "Fiesta" Coffee Shop Tavern Lounge Car
428 EL COMEDOR 36 Seat Dining Car
660 LA COSTA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car
LA JOLLA 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
LA PALMA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
LA QUINTA 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room Sleeping Car
LA MIRADA 2-Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation.
The RI trainset made one trip to Los Angeles for promotional purposes and never carried any revenue passengers under the Golden Rocket name. The idea was the two train sets would operate on a 39-3/4 hour schedule to match the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles but it was never to be. The SP never completed there train set and the schedule could not have been met without ATS on the SP portion of the trackage from Tucumcari to Los Angeles. Instead the Golden Rocket cars went into Golden State service still lettered for the train that never was the Golden Rocket.
PS I just finished the final tax return for a client this afternoon so will have more time on my hands until the mad house starts all over in January 2010. Its been an especially long tax season this year and I have never had so many clients on extension as this year. I have a feeling this is going to become a permanent state for taxpayers with more and more going on extension from April 15 to October 15.
Now, since you named the cars (I didn't ask for this item), you must translate the names.
For those interested the SP GOLDEN ROCKET train set though never built did have the following names selected.
NO number baggage Dorm car
VALLE RIO GRANDE 48 Seat Leg Rest Coach
VALLE DEL SOL 48 Seat Leg Rest Coach
VALLE IMPERIAL 48 Seat Leg Rest Coach
EL CAFE FRONTERO Coffee Shop Lounge Car
LA FONDA 36 Seat Dining Car
MONTE SANTA RITA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car
MONTE SAN JACINTO 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
MONTE SANTA CATALINA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
MONTE CHIRICAHUA 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car
LA GALERIA 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation
Deggesty passengerfan Johnny You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question. Al - in - Stockton The Train that Never Was I think that all followers of this thread know of the C&O’s plan to inaugurate a day train between Washington and Cincinnati. To make this possible, the C&O ordered new locomotives, many cars, including sleepers that would not be used on this train, but on various overnight trains. When the B&O learned of the plan, the Cincinnatian was launched, using equipment that the B&O already had.. It was not long before the B&O learned that there was no real market for such a schedule, and their train was moved to the Detroit-Cincinnati day run, which had been successful. The C&O learned from the B&O’s experience, canceled its proposed deluxe train, bought some of the cars it had ordered, and allowed other roads to buy those that the C&O would not be able to use. About the same time, two other roads planned a joint train that would run tri-weekly, using two sets of equipment (each one owned by one of the roads). Eleven cars were built for one railroad; no cars were built for the other railroad–and the train was swept away before it ever came into being (the cars that had been built were used on an existing joint train). What were the two roads? Which one had the cars built? What was the Train that Never Was? What train were the cars used on (with the name of the Train that Never Was on the letterboards)? Why was the train swept away? Johnny
passengerfan Johnny You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question. Al - in - Stockton
You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question.
The Train that Never Was
I think that all followers of this thread know of the C&O’s plan to inaugurate a day train between Washington and Cincinnati. To make this possible, the C&O ordered new locomotives, many cars, including sleepers that would not be used on this train, but on various overnight trains. When the B&O learned of the plan, the Cincinnatian was launched, using equipment that the B&O already had.. It was not long before the B&O learned that there was no real market for such a schedule, and their train was moved to the Detroit-Cincinnati day run, which had been successful.
The C&O learned from the B&O’s experience, canceled its proposed deluxe train, bought some of the cars it had ordered, and allowed other roads to buy those that the C&O would not be able to use.
About the same time, two other roads planned a joint train that would run tri-weekly, using two sets of equipment (each one owned by one of the roads). Eleven cars were built for one railroad; no cars were built for the other railroad–and the train was swept away before it ever came into being (the cars that had been built were used on an existing joint train). What were the two roads? Which one had the cars built? What was the Train that Never Was? What train were the cars used on (with the name of the Train that Never Was on the letterboards)?
Why was the train swept away?
Just for information. I believe Metro North makes a practice of running only mu cars (all three lines) around the loops to equalize wheel wear. Diesels probably have wheel wear equalization by moving trucks around under the locomotives at Harmon. Non-powered coaches are not that critical, including the cab-cars. Any comments from someone more familiar with the situation than I am?
In 1962, the UP had two 6-6-4 sleepers, American General and American View (A.C.F., 1950), rebuilt to 4 sections, 6 roomette, 4 double bedrooms, 1 small snack section, for service on the Butte Special?(Salt Lake City-Butte). But, the names apparently were not changed.
I can’t find any other rebuildings of just two cars.
passengerfan Each road remodeled two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars for there own named trains, they only operated on the owning roads tracks from beginning to end of each run.Each road had two sets of equipment to maintain overnight service in each direction for thes named trains. Is that enough information to help. Al - in - Stockton
Each road remodeled two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars for there own named trains, they only operated on the owning roads tracks from beginning to end of each run.Each road had two sets of equipment to maintain overnight service in each direction for thes named trains. Is that enough information to help.
In 1956, Great Northern had two of its 16 duplex roomette, 4 double bedroom Glacier cars (Oberlin Glacier & Harrison Glacier, P-S, 1947) rebuilt to 8 duplex roomette, 2 double bedroom, buffet lounge cars that were given the names Manitoba Club and Winnipeg Club, for service on the Winnipeg Limited. But, didn't this train run on CN rails into and out of Winnipeg?
Deggesty passengerfan Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to? Al - in - Stockton Al, am I right in understanding that the cars each road had remodeled were for its own train, or was there one train operated jointly by the two roads? Johnny
passengerfan Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to? Al - in - Stockton
Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to?
CORRECT!!! The MU's are run around the loop on a scheduled basis, smothing like once every two months. I don't know how the diesels and unpowered coaches are handled. Tt is pssible to trn equipment at both Croton Harmon, and at Brewster. Think the New Haven line fleet can currently only be turned at Grand Central.
daveklepper So far incorrect. Keep trying!
So far incorrect. Keep trying!
But Mark, today's commuter coaches...those in push pull service especially...often have permanent seating so that half the riders are always riding backwards! Otherwise, commuter coaches have flip over seats. But that is not the reason trains use the loops today...
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I'm guessing it must be to turn the train because unless the cars had flip over seats passengers would be riding backwards heading either outbound or inbound from GCT.
Mark
It is widely known that there are loop tracks for both the upper and lower levels at Grand Central Terminal. Given that most trains, all pushpulls with dual-power and nearly all multiple unit electrics simply reverse ends at Grand Central, the push-pull dual power locos always on the north end and the cab car on the south, what really essential purpose do the loops served and why are they used regularly?
DO NOT ANSWER IF YOU ARE A METRO NORTH EMPLOYEE!!!!
Perspective! I've seen the equpment changes, et al, on a regular basis, so I didn't even think all you have included, Dave! But you are right. There are still some position light signals around. But in my shallowness I was thinking the complexity and multi meanings of the word "change", in this case, as an active verb. Therefore I limited my sights to the AirTrain to JFK and the new stations for the F and J train services tunneled below the station building allowing for a covered passage from LIRR to subway instead of the three block hike to Jamaica Ave for the old BMT (the el structure is gone), or the further hike to the E&F train's old IND designated station; E train is still there but F's are on new line.
At anyrate, Dave, your answers trump mine for sure...your turn...
There were still some trains that exchanged steam for DD-1 electrics for a run to Penn Station during and after WWII. I don't know whether this lasted into the diesel era but I think it did. The rolling stock is very different. No more MP-54's, no more postwar conventional mu's. No more baggage car service and checked baggage. No more mail handling. No Push Pulls back then or dual power, which exist today. Position light signals back then, are they still around? The track arrangement has been somewhat simplified with higher-speed switches. No more active Union Hall Station East of Jamaica Station. Newer platform train identification signs. New public address system.
But that's only one change!
AirTrain
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/0/5/1905.1071727920.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/9/2/2892.1248711279.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/photo//1413609/L
http://www.airliners.net/photo/JetBlue-Airways/Airbus-A320-232/0936050/L/
CHANGE AT JAMAICA means so much to those riding the Long Island RR...I even have a 1950's era book of that title written by a hapless commuter who happened also to be a NY Times writer...but Mike's pictures posted above and in the question also point out another set of reasons for the phrase. My grandparents lived just a block north of the station near the Arena and I could wax nostalgic of the many hours we spent train watching on those platforms a half century ago...cleaninng out the phone coin returns for up to $5 bucks for both of us after the rush hour; the long string of freight cars trundling eastbound around the station on the far south track away from the platforms, the double deckers the FM cabs the Owl eye cars the, well...enough...
... But it does bring up a question to ask about change at Jamaica in fact. I can see...and have used...two major changes (note the word changes) at Jamaica station which were not extant back in the mid 20th Century. What are those changes (aside from the platform and bridge work)?
Henry, yes your turn again. Change at Jamaica.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1287522
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=675668
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?54645
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Jamaica_Station_Arch.jpg/800px-Jamaica_Station_Arch.jpg
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/jamaica/Jamaica_c.1971RGlueck.jpg
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?42314
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?10541
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?10558
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?42534
Pic one made me think Pittsburgh...but two and three changed my mind about 400 miles east to:
Jamaica, Queens, on the Long Island!?
What station is this?
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/1913.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/1927.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/Track.jpg
Mike
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