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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, June 25, 2014 10:39 AM

The Pennsylvania had a Columbian Express; it was westbound only.

Rob, are you sure that  Pan-American existed then? It is not named in the 1917 issue of the Guide that I have. If it had, surely the L&N would have persuaded the Big Four and the Lake Shore & Michigan Southern to have cooperated.Smile

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, June 26, 2014 3:04 AM

Found some trains shuffling off to Buffalo:

NYC - Pan American Express and Exposition Express

L&N, PRR and Erie - Pan American Express and Exposition Express

LV - Exposition Express

Wabash - Pan American Special and Rainbow City Special

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:06 PM

    

“Pan American Exposition visitors are taken to Buffalo over The Akron Route from Nashville on the Pan American Express which daily runs on that schedule via L&N—Pennsylvania—Erie Lines Special to Buffalo and to Niagara Falls and Canadian resorts with stop-overs at Buffalo.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLPWsVJe_SQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9HSgOhP_rM

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:55 AM

ZephyrOverland

For the 1893 and 1901 World Fairs, a number of railroads named or partially renamed their trains to tie into the expositions being held.  The "Exposition" moniker was used on a number of trains for both fairs, but during each fair, other unique monikers were used with some train names specifically for each fair. 

Name the moniker that was utilized on some trains during the 1893 Worlds Fair and another name that was that was utilized on other trains for the 1901 Worlds Fair and supply some examples. 

Myron

A number of individuals contributed parts of answers to this question.  The answers I was looking for was:

For the 1893 Worlds Fair, a number of railroads operated trains with "Columbian" as part of their name.  Examples include:

-Columbian Banner Limited - Wabash - Chicago-St. Louis
-Columbian Express - PRR - Jersey City-Chicago
-Columbian Limited - ATSF - Los Angeles-Chicago
-Columbian Limited - Frisco - Galveston-St. Louis
-Chicago Columbian Exposition Express - MC - Buffalo-Chicago

The 1901 Worlds Fair was subtitled the Pan-American Exposition, resulting in a number of trains with the "Pan-American" moniker:

-Pan-American Express - L&N/Vandalia/PRR/CA&C/Erie - St. Louis/Nashville-Buffalo
-Pan-American Express - NYC&HR - New York-Buffalo
-Pan-American Express - LS&MS - Chicago-Buffalo
-Pan-American Express - NYC&HR/MC/TH&B/CP - New York-Buffalo-Toronto
-Pan-American Limited - RI - Denver/Colorado Springs-Chicago
-Pan-American Special - MC - Chicago-Buffalo
-Pan-American Special - Q&C - New Orleans-Cincinnati
-Pan-American Special - Wabash - St. Louis-Buffalo

Partial correct answers were submitted by Dave, rdcrye, Johnny and wanswheel

To break this 4 way tie, I'm going to ask another question:

What was the last pre-Amtrak train to be renamed in honor of a Worlds Fair?

There could be 2 possible answers.  The winner needs to give the train name, RR, destinations and for which Worlds Fair the train was referring to?

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 28, 2014 10:43 AM

In 1964 and 1965, the Erie-Lackawanna re-named the Lake Cities the World's Fair, and provided coach service between Chicago and New York, with a sleeper between Youngstown and New York (actually, its eastern terminus was Hoboken).

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, June 28, 2014 11:09 AM

Deggesty

In 1964 and 1965, the Erie-Lackawanna re-named the Lake Cities the World's Fair, and provided coach service between Chicago and New York, with a sleeper between Youngstown and New York (actually, its eastern terminus was Hoboken).

Johnny, Ill take that answer.  The other possibility was NYC's World's Fair Special running about the same time as the World's Fair.  Both trains were temporarily renamed in honor of the 1964-65 New York's Worlds Fair.

Johnny, you have the next question.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:48 PM

Sorry to be delayed.

In 1945, how would you travel between  (1)Nashville and Knoxville overnight by Pullman? (2) overnight by through coach? (3) by day (shortest time)?

Give roads and, if possible, trains.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 30, 2014 8:09 AM

Johnny, (1) Prior to March 15, 1945 you couldn't travel between Nashville and Knoxville overnight by Pullman because of the order suspending short Pullman routes to free cars for military travel. On March 15 the Pullman route was restored and it ran in Tennessee Central No. 4 to Harriman Jct. leaving Nashville at 8:30 pm and in SR No.28 from Harriman Jct. arriving in Knoxville at 5:25 am.

(2) I believe there was a through overnight coach that ran between Nashville and Knoxville over the route and in the TC and SR trains listed in (1) above.

(3) The shortest day run would be TC No.2 leaving Nashville at 8:30 am and SR No. 3 arriving in Knoxville at 5:05 pm.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, June 30, 2014 11:23 AM

Mark, you are right in part, except for the year of the order forbidding short Pullman runs--it was still in effect in November of 1945. But, you could still sleep in a berth overnight between the two cities, though you had to get up early in Knoxville. What was the route of this car?

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 30, 2014 12:51 PM

Deggesty

Mark, you are right in part, except for the year of the order forbidding short Pullman runs--it was still in effect in November of 1945. But, you could still sleep in a berth overnight between the two cities, though you had to get up early in Knoxville. What was the route of this car?

I believe this was a Nashville to Washington sleeper. It left Nashville at 9:30 PM and ran in NC&StL No. 3 to Chattanooga. From there it ran in SR No. 45, the Tennesseean, arriving in Knoxville at 6:55 AM.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, June 30, 2014 2:58 PM

Now you have it all! And, the return service to Nashville was the same routing--with a through overnight coach through Harriman, connecting coach day service through Harriman, and the Washington-Nashville sleeper for civilized comfortable overnight service.

Incidentally, the Knoxville-Harriman-Oakdale train connected with the Royal Palm in Oakdale, so travelers who did not want to use the L&N between Knoxville and Cincinnati did have an alternate route.

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, June 30, 2014 4:33 PM

Chicago Railfan’s “Great Union Stations” has info about arrivals and departures in the years 1942, 1956 and 1971.

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/stbeyond.html

It seems in 1942, NC&StL train No. 3 spent more than an hour in Nashville,

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/stbcnsh.html

the Knoxville sleeper was 25 minutes in Chattanooga,

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/stbccha.html

and the Tennessean arrived in Knoxville at 6:15.

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/stbcknx.html

Mike

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 2, 2014 12:11 PM

In the early 1900's there were at least 24 railroads with the word Central and a state in their name such as New York Central and Central RR of New Jersey. By the late 1930's mergers and abandonments had reduced this number but two of the shortest Centrals still operated. These two railroads had very similar names and one could easily be confused with the other. What were the names of these roads?

Mark 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:56 PM

In 1930 (which really was the last year of the Twenties) The two shortest railroads with the name of a state in the name were the Central Railway Company of Arkansas, which showed 7 miles from Plainview to Ola, and the California Central RR, which had 8 miles from San Juan to Chittenden.

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, July 6, 2014 7:50 AM

 

Deggesty

In 1930 (which really was the last year of the Twenties) The two shortest railroads with the name of a state in the name were the Central Railway Company of Arkansas, which showed 7 miles from Plainview to Ola, and the California Central RR, which had 8 miles from San Juan to Chittenden.

Johnny, the time of this question was the late 1930's. I don't know when the two roads you mention were abandoned (or possibly merged) but neither one is listed in the March 1937 OG. Keep in mind that the two I'm looking for had very similar names.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, July 7, 2014 7:34 PM

One of the roads connected with the Frisco and the other with the Mobile & Ohio.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 5:58 AM

Based on geography alone I'm going with Mississippi Central and Missouri Central.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:36 AM

rcdrye

Based on geography alone I'm going with Mississippi Central and Missouri Central.

Close but no cigar. Both roads had the same state in their names.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:18 AM

I know the Alabama Central lasted until 1939.  Was there also a Cental (of) Alabama?

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 10:31 AM

rcdrye

Was there also a Cental (of) Alabama?

No, but you're right on with the Alabama Central. You just need to refine that answer a bit.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:14 AM

In 1930, the Alabama Central Railroad ran 13 miles from Jasper to Fords, and connected with the SLSF, IC, and SOU at Jasper.

In the same year, the Alabama Central Railway ran 8.3 miles from Autaugaville to Booth, where it connected with the M&O.

I avoid handling my November, 1937, Guide as much as possible, since it is very fragile. It was given me in the spring of 1955 by the Southern's passenger agent in Bristol.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:08 PM

Deggesty

In 1930, the Alabama Central Railroad ran 13 miles from Jasper to Fords, and connected with the SLSF, IC, and SOU at Jasper.

In the same year, the Alabama Central Railway ran 8.3 miles from Autaugaville to Booth, where it connected with the M&O.

You've nailed it, Johnny; both the railroads and their connections. When it was abandoned in 1939 the Alabama Central Railway had been reduced to just a five mile line between Booth and Forrester. When abandoned in 1961 the Alabama Central Railroad ran just nine miles between Jasper and Marigold.  

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 4:07 PM

In late 1944 (the issue of the Guide that I have for that era), a certain railroad that operated mainly in the South operated two--actually, one and a half--trains that carried sleepers only. The full train was overnight, running on a slower schedule than another train that covered the same route (with different origins and different destinations) and carried both coaches and sleepers; the half train (it ran in one direction only) ran in daytime and carried sleepers which it turned over to another train with the same origin but traveled farther, which carried coaches and a diner and ran twenty minutes slower overall (taking dwell times into account). The overnight train also carried a sleeper that had a endpoint not on the main line. The day train had a sleeper that terminated at a point on another railroad.

The railroad and the endpoints of the sleepers, please.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, July 12, 2014 11:05 AM

The train that ran in both directions was, itself, an intrastate train which handled an intrastate sleeper, which was carried, in part, by the other train. And, it handled an interstate sleeper, which traveled on the branch and was carried, in part, by the other train (the other train was strictly a mainline train).

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 13, 2014 2:27 AM

Are you talking about the Georgia Railroad with connections to the ACL?  I don't have the OG or timetables to name specific trains and endpoints howver, except that Atlanta was one.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, July 13, 2014 8:02 AM

Southern had Birmingham-Mobile connections for some of its other trains that were all-Pullman, though I wouldn't have thought they were around in 1944.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 13, 2014 8:48 AM

The intrastate sleeper handled in part by the Georgia Railroad might have been Savanna - Atlanta, and an interstate sleeper could easily have been Atlanta - Washington or Atlanta - NY or Atlanta - Wilmington, NC

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 13, 2014 3:39 PM

Sorry, Dave, this railroad did operate in Georgia--along with several other states.

The both sleepers, the intrastate one and the one that had a terminal in another state, were operated on one road.

In 1944, the only service the Southern had in Mobile was the day Birmingham-Mobile train.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:06 PM

Except for the interstate sleeper's branch line route (which went into a port city), these sleepers ran on the main line of the railroad.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:07 PM

I should have specified that neither train was operated in Georgia.

Now think: what other Southern state had rail lines such that overnight sleeper service (albeit with early arrival or late departure), along with sleeper service into a neighboring  state (also with early arrival and late departure) was possible?

Johnny

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