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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 25, 2014 2:10 PM

The last eastbound Citiy of LA leaving LA 30  June 1971, with 844(4) added in front of the four E-units Rawlins - Cheyanne.    The last NYNH&H passenger steam, a fan trip, Boston - New Haven via Willimanric, return via Shore Line, unfortunately I only rode the return.  The last Quebec - St. Joiquin CN interurban, a fantriip the day after end of regular service.   The last Revere, Chelsea, East Boston streetcar, the night before the Blue Line extension to Orient Heights from Maverick opened.   The last Classon Point streetcar in The Bronx, fantrip the day after the last regular "V" car ran.   The last Sedgewick Avenue (really Ceder Street) Bronx streetcar, an impromptu Kneiling insisted extension of a fan trip about nine monthes after the end of regular service.  The last Boston and Maine regular Worcester - Winchester branch line train.  The last West Penn interurban to Brownsville, fantrip the Sunday after the last car ran the Saturday evneing before.  This was in June 1949, and over the next three years the entire system was gradualliy abandoned.  The last streetcar over part of the Bergan and St. John's place lines in Brookliyn, a PCC (1000, the Clarke aliumnium car) fan trip the day after regular service on both lines quit.  Could not reach the stub end eastern end of the two lines because of lack of loops.   I think we also covered the complete Tomkins line on that trip, a line the quite a few weeks earlier.    

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, May 25, 2014 3:40 PM

Last run of SP 126, the Del Monte, from Castroville to Monterey 4/30/1971.  Dual-control GP9s 3002 and 3004, the usual lounge(parlor)/coach pair, two each extra lounges and parlors, and a pair of Harriman commuter coaches.

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Posted by rfpjohn on Sunday, May 25, 2014 7:50 PM

Last run of Penn Central commuter train 987 on the Pemberton branch in South Jersey (the "Back road") on April 25 1969.

The consist was a Baldwin RS-12, PC class BRS12sx, #8084  followed by a PRSL P70 #9875 for the anticipated last run passenger load and the normal push-pull P70 (equipped with a sealed beam headlight, an air horn and zebra striping on the end for back-up moves) #1046.  I rode from Moorestown to Pemberton and caught a ride home with the Vice President of High Iron Co, a complete stranger to me. The train was very full. I made the trip by myself back when strangers were kind folk and a 12 year old could safely accept the help of good folks.

The Pemberton branch was, I believe, PC's last passenger service on a manual block branch and of course, also the line which hosted the very last steam passenger train on the PRR, behind K4s 5351 on 11/12/57.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 26, 2014 2:35 AM

Some data on my last runs.  Citiy of LA, well known, but important that dome diner had been removed and replaced with regular diner about ten months earlier.  Last New Haven steam, conventional old steel open-window coaches behind an I-4 Pacific.  Last car on Segewick Avenue line, second-hand steel 1234.   Classon Point, 1939 home-built lightweight, 646-685, possibly the last build, 685.  (most of group sent to Vienna 1949.)   After termination Quebec fantrip, 1930-build steel single-end lightweight with wood single-end trailer.  St. Johns and Bergin in Brooklyn, PCC 1000.    Last Revere-Chelsie-East Boston car, Type 5 of course.  B&M Worcester - Winchendon, possibly a GP-7 but more likely an RS-2 or RS-3.   Three or four wood open-platform coaches.

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Monday, May 26, 2014 9:00 PM

Say that I'm out-of-bounds if this refers only to passenger last runs....

I'm running a GP9, porwer for the Davis Turn from Suisun-Fairfield, and  also out and back on the Winters Branch from.Elmira,...A car consigned to a GE appliance dealer in Winters for a "BOXCAR LOAD" sale.  Don't spot it, we are told.

One day, or two later, we are told don't spot the car today.  A day or two later, with the car, not told to not spot the car, finished switching at Vaca Valley, we're ready to depart for Winters and have a "cornfield meet" with a Hi-Rail, Company and  Western Division, officers, ordering my conductor, a retired military officer, to hold and not spot the appliances.

"They said,That part of the Branch was "out of service."

So... I never got to run a train to Winters.


 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 1:45 PM

Do I get to ask the next question since I rode the most last runs, even discountning fan trips?  Possibly the reason I rode the most last runs is that I am 82-1/2, and I wonder if any poster is older.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:20 PM

Dave:

As the senior member of this group, please ask the next question.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:51 AM

The electric locomotives that ended up as Conrail's E-33's, before that the New Haven EF-4's, were the electric locomotives owned by the most different rairload companies during their active service life,  recap: Virginian, Norfolk and Western, NYNH&H, PC, Conrail.

For rapid transit cars, they were the Shipyard railway cars that were built originally for the Sixth Avenue elevated, Gilbert Elevated Railway, Manhattan Elevated (probably a comany between), Interuborough, NYC Board of Transportation, NYC Transit Authority, Shipyard Railway (US Govenment).

Which streetcars and/or interurban cars were owned by the most different companies during their active service life?

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Posted by milw-5 on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:49 PM

question is when did milw. rd sioux hiawatha stop running

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, May 30, 2014 8:12 AM

Apparently, my question was not of sufficient interest to provoke answers.  And truthfully, I do not claim to have the best answer.  Many lightwieghts were sold for second-hand operation, and some probably saw third systems before being scrapped.   Two cases of providing the same service under three owners come to mind.   The Birneys in the Marion local streetcar system were purchased and run by Union Traction Company, came into the Indiana Railroad operations in 1930 or 1931, and one or two years later were under local Marion Railways ownership.  The 4200 semi-convertables that operated in Boston, Chelsie, and Revere, and up to 1935  in Lynn, Salem, Gloucester, were purchased and operated by the Bay State Electric Railway, then the Eastern Massachusetts Street Railway, and then came into the ownership of the Boston Elevated Railway, and then the Metropolitan Transit Authority before being scrapped, four owners.  A few went back under lease to the Eastern Mass for the last few months of operation of the Stoneham - Sullivan Square route as a trolley line after an accident put two of the similar 4300'sassgined to the service out of operation. All were scrapped by 1948.   An of course there are the Louisville PCC's that ran tests but no public operation there, then to Cleveland, then Toronto, and maybe one is in San Francisco today?   Twin Cities PCC's to Newark to San Francisco. 

So the new replacement question:   Multiple owners of steam locomatives, and I would suspect that some may have had five or six owners over their useful lives.  Am I correct?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 30, 2014 8:57 AM

An awful lot of early cars got bounced around to various owners, with corporate changes in the middle, which makes tracing ownership complicated.  For example, Bay State Street Railway4175 could probably be claimed by about seven different corporate entities, even though it only ran in Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Jersey before entering private hands, and then landing at the Seashore Trolley Museum.  Some Pacific Electric cars went through four or five corporate changes without leaving the same rails.  Then there's the problem of underlying ownership.  One car in Chicago was transferred from Cicago City Railway to Calimet and South Chicago ownership without changing its number, paint or run assignment.

Steam locomotives are (hopefully) simpler, if only because there were fewer of them...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 30, 2014 10:06 AM

Some Cincinnati Car Co. curved-side lightweights served under four owners which were distinct operations.  I believe that the cars in question finished out their service on the ill-fated Milwaukee Rapid Transit & Speedrail.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 30, 2014 11:21 AM

Aurora Elgin and Fox River Electirc cars in the 300 series spent some time on Shaker Heights Rapid Transit before going to Milwaukee's Speedrail operation.  Some of them spent time at Trolleyville before ending up at other museums.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:43 PM

Well, it looks like we can stay with streetcars and interuban cars, and leave steamers for another question.   Thanks, guys.   Two correcdtions, the 4200's were the Stonham cars, and the 4300's the Chelsies. not the reverse as I posted.  And the PCC's now on the F line in SF in various paint schemes, had four owners, not three, Twin Cities, Public Service of New Jersey. New Jersey Transit, and the SF;s MUNI.

Anyone know the history of the Lehigh Valley Tranist Easton LImited Cincinnat lightweight curve-side cars?

The Grand Rapids car that went to Marion probably had four owners, Detroit United, Detroit Dept. of Street Rys, Grand Rapids, and then Marion Railways.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, June 1, 2014 4:27 PM

daveklepper

Anyone know the history of the Lehigh Valley Tranist Easton LImited Cincinnat lightweight curve-side cars?

LVT got them in 1939 from the Dayton and Troy Electric (Ohio).

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 2, 2014 1:43 AM

Did D&T buy them new or second hand?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, June 2, 2014 11:45 AM

daveklepper

Did D&T buy them new or second hand?

Near as I can tell D&TE bought them new in 1929. They were only used for a few years as the D&T folded in 1932 after a bridge failure.  The cars were returned to Cininnati Car and finally resold to LVT in 1938.  LVT put them in service in 1939.  Thank burlingtonreplicas.com for the info.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 2, 2014 2:47 PM

rcdrye, I believe you should ask the next question since you mentined the Ellgine and Fox River 300's.  Also, is not one of them back home at the Fox River Valley Trolley Museum?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 7:38 AM

daveklepper
 Also, is not one of them back home at the Fox River Valley Trolley Museum?

AE&FRE 304 is at the Fox River Trolley Museum.

New question:

This streetcar shuttle line, which ran less than two blocks, had its own line number and was considered the shortest line in the U.S.  I'll accept the city and the line's purpose.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 9:27 AM

I am unsure if this is the line you are referring to, but the long-term operated Holy Cross Cemetary Shuttle meets your description exactly.   It ran east from Nostrand Avenue on one street, forget the name of the street, to the gate of the cemetary where the street ended.  Nostrand Avenue was a major streetcar line, operating from the Wiliiamsburg Bridge Plaze (at one time crossing the bridge to the underground Essex Street terminal in Manhattan, still viewable from the south side of eastbound J, M, anad Z subway trains just before the portal and the bridge approach), east on Broadway (Brooklyn) under tthe "L" structure, and then south on Nostrand Avemue to Avenue U,   The shuttle borrowed its equipment for its one-car every quarter hour operation, usually in my time a 8000-series double-end Peter Witt.   Single-track, of course.

A somewhat similar but longer line was the Grant Park shuttle at Roossevelt Rd. (Av.) Chicago, which has been discussed earlier on this thread.   This was longer, was double-tracked, usually used two cars, and was a remainder of the through line.

The Jones Street cable-car Shuttle off the O'Farrell-Jones-and Hyde Street cable-car line, which operated before the massive reconfiguration and reduction of the cable car network was also only two-blocks long, and connected the main OJH south to Market Street and the Ferry Terminal.   I think it was double-track, would have to be for cable operation, but usually used only one car.

For the first summer after the East Boston Tunnel rapid transit, now the Blue Line, was extended from Maverick to Orient Heights, with conversion to trackless trolleys of the East Boston - Chelsie - Revere network, a shuttle for one summer only ran between Gladstone Loop, at the new Suffolk Downs Station, and the main gate of the track itself.  A very short line located on the RofW and track of what had been a branch to serve the track from the main Maverick-Orient Heights-Revere Beach line.  After that one summer, patrons of the track had to walk the short distance.

Whe the line had operated through, before the rapid transit extension, service from Maverick to Suffolk Downs Racetrack was the last place Type 4 cars hauling center-entrance trailers made an appearance.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:43 PM

The line I'm looking for had an official length of 800 ft.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:01 PM

Are you referring to the underground one at the Capitol in Washington used by Senators or Congressmen?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:19 PM

This was was a bit further west.  As far as I know the line under the Capitol never operated with Birneys.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 8, 2014 9:03 AM

OK.   First, although the Holy Cross Cemetary shuttle did not run Birney;s at the time I rode it, about 1947, it did at one time.  And my memory says it was shorter than 800 feet long, about two short New York city blocks.     What about a shuttle operated by the Illinois Terminal to connect Peoria with East Peoria because its new streamliners could not cross the bridge because they would derail on a sharp curve?  

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, June 9, 2014 6:41 AM

The line I was looking for was Oakland CA's East Bay Transit line 27, Cemetery and Piedmont Ave, which ran from Cemetery Jct. (with the 10 Piedmont line) to the Mountain View Cemetery.  The total track length fromthe switch to end-of-track was listed as 800 feet, so the operated portion was even shorter.  The line was discontinued in 1937.  The car used ran every 10 minutes, probably the most boring operator assignment ever.

Dave found several short shuttle lines, so he can take the next question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 9, 2014 8:32 AM

Brooklyn's Holy Cross Cemetary shuttle was an exact copy of your 27 if 27 was on a paved street.  And it lasted as long as the heavy Nostrand Avenue line ran, summer of 1949 if my memory is correct.

Question:   Name all operators of 4-wheel Birney safety cars outside the USA and Canada   -and there is a trick to this, too.I

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 3:38 AM

I am counting Peurto Rico, which had Birneys, as part of the USA.   But there are eleven countries, one something else, and 24 different systems ouside the USA.  I'll count anyone coming up with ten systems as a winner.   And what two USA systems removed most of the safety equipment they bought on thier own siingle-truck Birneys and replaced it with something they considered even safer?   (And i agree, with experience to boot..)

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:03 AM

Mexico

Cuba

Australia (Melbourne, Port Adelaide)

New Zealand (New Plymouth, Invercargill)

Argentina (2 systems)

Brazil

Ecuador (from Trenton NJ)

Colombia (Medellin, Pereira)

I'm sure Third Avenue Rail System/Steinway used the foot-brake safety system found on larger cars on their moderately large Birney fleet. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:32 AM

Correct about Third Avenue.  Add to your systems list.   One of the countries, the one outside the USA and Canada, that had the most systems with Birneys, is on your list, but the cities that operated Birneys last, with one still running in a museum operation, have not been included.   So add them.

Also, one system not in a country, but not strictly in Canada or the USA either.   You have mentioned another rail operation there more than once.    If the system operated today, though, it would not be counted.

Two more and you win.   Omaha-Council Bluffs was the other system to use the Third Avenue foot-brake safety system.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:00 AM

I'm working without any reference books, so I may not find any more.  Australia's Bendigo Tramways still has Birneys in a museum operation.  I mentioned Mexico, where Veracruz and Monterrey both had Birneys.  I'm guessing the not-quite-a-country you're referring to is the Panama Canal Zone.

The TARS foot pedal system has interlocks between the pedal, the controller and the door controls.  The brake is released by depressing the pedal, apply is by allowing the pedal to rise, with the brakes self-lapping (controlled by pedal position).  The line switch is cut out when the brake is applied.  This allowed operators to control using only the foot pedal, nice for use on conduit-fed routes with extremely heavy vehicle traffic, like just about every route TARS ran.

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