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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 6:47 AM

wanswheel
Brainerd, Minnesota is named in honor of the former Miss Ann Brainerd, wife of the first president of the Northern Pacific RR. Who was he and what already-built railroad was he also president of?

Mr. John Gregory Smith was the president of the Vermont Central.  While Wikipedia lists him as a trustee of the Vermont and Canada (VC, later CV, now NECR mainline north of Essex Junction) he was instrumental in building, buying, leasing and whatever else it took to control what eventually became the Central Vermont and Rutland systems (VC/CV held the Rutland under lease from 1871 to 1896 and the O&LC from 1870 to 1898).  Mr. Smith was also Governor of Vermont in the 1860s. The current operating headquarters of the NECR at St. Albans are Mr. Smith's legacy to northwest Vermont.  The VC's original shops were in Northfield VT, on land formerly owned by one of the VC's founders.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 7:54 AM

There is a problem with the posting of the newspaper item.   Can you correct it?

The problem of low joints and high centers common to most run-down steam railroad lines did not seem to exist on the interuran lines I rode, in general.

And they could have stopped to have lunches at good restaurants .  Like many a fan trip.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:30 AM

I found an interesting item in the second paragraph of the account of the trip Mike (Wanswheel) posted this morning: "Each tourist was furnished with a dairy..." SO, they had plenty of milk, ice cream, butter, and cheese?Big Smile I had set my coffee cup down before reading the account.

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 3:36 PM
rcdrye
Mr. John Gregory Smith was the president of the Vermont Central.
Yes, but Governor Smith always called himself ‘Gregory,’ or J. Gregory Smith, to spare Miss Ann from being compared to Pocahantas. In Brainerd he’s a park. http://www.ci.brainerd.mn.us/parks/park_gregory.htm
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 5:03 PM

wanswheel
Governor Smith always called himself ‘Gregory,’ or J. Gregory Smith

In later years he seemed to prefer "Governor".

On to the next question...

A famous museum which has a few Central Vermont artifacts is the indirect result of Governor Smith's ascent through railroads to the Governor's office.  Name the railroad controlled for a while by Vanderbilt interests to further a son-in-law's political ambitions in emulation of Governor Smith.  Bonus for the museum.  Extra bonus for naming the federal act that pushed the Vanderbilts to dump the property (no, it wasn't the Sherman Anti-trust Act...).   Even bigger bonus for the son-in-law...

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:04 PM

The Rutland.

The ICC Act of 1887 as amended by the Panama Canal Act of 1915.

William Seward Webb.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 20, 2014 6:29 AM

KCSfan

The Rutland.

The ICC Act of 1887 as amended by the Panama Canal Act of 1915.

William Seward Webb.

Mark

Mark got all of the key answers.  The museum is the Shelburne Museum in Shelburne VT.   CV artifacts include a 4-6-0 and business car Grand Isle.  Dr. Webb was willing to try for the Governor's office in either Vermont or New York, but didn't get anywhere in either one.  His Daughter Electra founded the Museum.

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:53 AM
Excerpt from 1914 NY Times article: Taking up the gift of a private car to Clement, the brief says: The efforts put forth by Clement in assembling the properties which went into the Rutland consolidation, however injurious in their results to the general body of stockholders, were undoubtedly of great benefit to the members of the Rutland Preferred Syndicate, and accordingly the board embraced an opportunity which presented itself of rewarding Clement for his service to the syndicate by presenting to him a portion of the property of the stockholders. At this meeting the unauthorized appropriation by Dr. Webb of 1,000 shares of the Rutland preferred stock was "ratified" and this favor to Dr. Webb was matched by the gift to Mr. Clement of the Rutland's private car Grand Isle. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10C13F63D5C13738DDDA90A94D8415B848DF1D3
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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:31 PM

What was the first Class I railroad to completely dieselize? Name both the road and the year dieselization was completed.

Mark

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Posted by Davide Ritarose on Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:31 PM

Hi: new here:

I worked as Locomotive Engineer for CN Railway and worked on freight trains leaving Montreal over Victoria Bridge going to Island Pond VT; St. Albans VT; Massena NY; and Rouses Pte NY. I also worked for many years on Amtrak "Montrealer" to St. Albans VT.

Just to put the cherry on the cake I also ran those electic communter trains under Mont Royal tunnel. Both the old 25'000 volt trains (box cabs etc. and took my retirement (last run) on the new electric communter train.

So: Yes Amtrack the Montrealer which went to St. Albans VT and along the east side of Lake Champlain (and also the Amtrak crews which went to Rouses Pte hense New York NY along the west side of Lake Champlain) went from Central Station over Victoria Bridge. When Windsor (CPR) station was open to inter city passenger trains that Amtrack via Rouses Pte NY left Windsor ststion and crossed the CPR bridge at Lachine via the first nation Mohawk territory. All CN freight trains to the US and east went over Victoria bridge.

The Massena subdivision was closed and I took a differnet route later, Kingston Subdivision to Coteau down to the Con Rail (NYC) at Valleyfield to Huntingdon back on the old CN track (Massena sub) which was sold to CR onwards to Massena NY.

Electric: Yes there was only yards in lenght on Victoria bridge at the west end (on the Montreal side) as the electric was from Central Station to Bridge Street (The wire extended a little on the bridge. Then west ward to Turcot Yards (the old Tutcot) The westward wye from Central Station to Turcot. Also a six mile extention from EJ Tower (East Junction) off the Mont Royal Sub to Montreal North (Nord).

CN 25,000 never crossed Victoria bridge.

However the Montreal & Southern Counties Railway (former SER South Eastern Railway) went all the way across Victoria Bridge towards downtown terminal at McGill street.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:33 PM

KCSfan

What was the first Class I railroad to completely dieselize? Name both the road and the year dieselization was completed.

Mark

If the Texas-Mexican was a class I in 1938 then it was the first, with Whitcomb box cabs.

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:57 PM

TM was a Class I. The Whitcombs were essentially mechanically VO660s, and had the rather odd wheel arrangement of 'D'.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, March 21, 2014 2:08 AM
Davide Ritarose

Hi: new here:

I worked as Locomotive Engineer for CN Railway and worked on freight trains leaving Montreal over Victoria Bridge going to Island Pond VT; St. Albans VT; Massena NY; and Rouses Pte NY. I also worked for many years on Amtrak "Montrealer" to St. Albans.

Davide, welcome to the Classic Trains threads, and thank you for driving the Montrealer. In the old days, it was the CV engineer, often my grandfather, who drove that train in Quebec, according to my father: “Another idiosyncracy of Nos. 20 and 21 was that, by special agreements with the Brotherhooods, these two trains, and these two only, were exclusively CV jobs all the way White River Jct. to Montreal. This came about because of a contract Grand Trunk Railway had signed with Rutland RR in 1919, under which GTR agreed never to operate a through passenger service Montreal-New York City except via Rutland RR. In order to operate the Montrealer and Washingtonian without violating that contract, it was necessary that the CN avoid all participation in the operation of the train; so it was set up as a CV operation, running into Montreal under CV trackage rights, rather than as a CN operation St. Johns-Montreal.” Mike

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, March 21, 2014 4:29 AM

The Texas Mexican is correct and as Northwest has stated it was a Class I. The last of the Whitcomb's were  actually delivered in early 1939.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 21, 2014 6:49 AM

To service what was (for it) a major passenger traffic point, this railroad built a motor train out of its entire fleet of former McKeen motor cars plus a second-hand one, the power car re-engined by EMC.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, March 21, 2014 9:26 AM

Would this be CGW No's 41 and 42, the Blue Bird, which ran between Minneapolis and Rochester?

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 21, 2014 11:15 AM

KCSfan

Would this be CGW No's 41 and 42, the Blue Bird, which ran between Minneapolis and Rochester?

Mark

It sure would.  Probably the only McKeen-built equipment fitted out with Pullman sections and a buffet.  Of course CGW managed to time its introduction well, right about the time of the stock market crash.  The train was only in service for about a year.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, March 21, 2014 2:37 PM

You'd hardly expect to see compound articulated mallets running in the central mid-west but one small Class I road had five of them. What was the railroad and the wheel arrangement and builder of these engines?

Mark

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Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, March 21, 2014 7:27 PM

I vaguely remember a story in "Trains" about which Class 1 dieselized first. There was quite a discussion as to whether of not the TEXMEX was a Class 1 at that time. 

The MNS and the MTFR were among the first railroads in the Twin Cities to dieselize.

Ed Burns

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 22, 2014 4:08 PM

KCSfan

You'd hardly expect to see compound articulated mallets running in the central mid-west but one small Class I road had five of them. What was the railroad and the wheel arrangement and builder of these engines?

Mark

A very closely allied railroad had a camelback 2-8-0. Hard to imagine both malleys and a camelback  running in the heartland.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, March 24, 2014 8:58 PM

These engines were featured in an advertisement by their builder that was headed:

"MALLET LOCOMOTIVES for HEAVY TRAINS on LIGHT TRACKS"

The ad went on to say:

"Heavy trains can be hauled over light tracks by using Mallet locomotives. The result is economical operation, because double heading is avoided and the number of train movements necessary to handle a given tonnage is reduced."

"The locomotive illustrated is used on 70-pound rails, and has a handling capacity of 3,000 tons on grades of 0.6 per cent"

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 4:54 AM

I think it's surprising that a midwestern road with just over 300 miles of light traffic density trackage would have five Mallets.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:24 AM

The railroad that owned the Mallets was a "Family Line" long before the L&N, SCL, Clinchfield, et al ever joined to form the Family Lines.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 12:05 PM

The Wheeling and Lake Erie had some 2-6-6-2 Mallets from Alco(Brooks) and Baldwin, used them on mine runs in Ohio.  They also had at least three 4-6-0 camelbacks at one time, which were eventually rebuilt into conventional cab-at-rear engines.  Four of the Baldwin 2-6-6-2's lasted long enough to get Nickel Plate numbers 940-943.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:09 PM

rcdrye

The Wheeling and Lake Erie had some 2-6-6-2 Mallets from Alco(Brooks) and Baldwin, used them on mine runs in Ohio.  They also had at least three 4-6-0 camelbacks at one time, which were eventually rebuilt into conventional cab-at-rear engines.  Four of the Baldwin 2-6-6-2's lasted long enough to get Nickel Plate numbers 940-943.

Close but no cigar, Rob. Go west young man.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 6:35 AM

Chicago Great Western bought 10 2-6-6-2s, quickly dumped them  on the Clinchfield, which used them for less than 10 years.  On the other hand CGW's operation was bigger than 300 miles.

The Chicago and Alton had three 2-6-6-2's that I could find. 

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:27 PM

The area served by this road does not immediately come to mind as a coal mining region. Nevertheless, hauling coal from mines on its own and connecting lines was a big part of its traffic. The parent company which owned this and other railroads also owned coal mines.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:58 PM

Missouri, Oklahoma and Gulf (Later Kansas, Oklahoma and Gulf) had five Baldwin 2-6-6-2 compounds built in 1912.  They worked in the still-active Oklahoma coal district.  KO&G was part of the Muskogee group with the Midland Valley and Oklahoma City-Ada-Atoka lines.  I'm not sure which of the others had a camelback, since looking up "Midland Valley" gets about a million hits on the U.K. line of the same name.

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:32 PM

You've got it, Rob. The MO&G's Baldwin built 2-6-6-2's were numbered 300-304. Midland Valley No. 4 was the 2-8-0 Camelback.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:41 AM

Two suburban operations served the same city from stations about 9/10ths of a mile apart.  Trains from one took two possible routes to this suburban location, where branch line trains of the other terminated across the street.  Before both companies upgraded their suburban operations in the 1920s, most trains of both companies arrived and left behind tank engines.

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