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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, May 21, 2024 5:58 AM

Louisville, KY, but Toronto's  wide-gauge is, I believe, closer to standard than Louisville's was.  But maybe you meant USA 

The largest interurban serving the city was the Indiana Railroad, and its predicessor the Interstate,  The Louisville & New Albany was an interurban with the Louisville track gauge,  The Daisy Line.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, May 21, 2024 8:46 AM

Louisville was the "normal" wide gauge - 5' 2 1/2", perhaps best known as Pennsylvania gauge, though also used in West Virginia, Ohio, Louisiana and probably elsewhere.  The system I'm looking for shared its city with one of the largest interurbans, though of course they didn't share any track.  It was around long enough to get PCCs, some of which went on to serve in other cities.

Another odd thing in the system - on the PCCs the pedal usage was backwards, with power on the left and brake on the right.

The track gauge used was close enough to standard to be the cause of a famous 19th century train wreck.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, May 23, 2024 6:10 AM

Cincinnati, 4'-9"

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, May 23, 2024 8:17 AM

Cincinnati was Penn gauge 5' 2 1/2".  Hometown Cincinnati Car had dual-gauge track to accomodate.

As far as I can figure the gauge used came from a pre-civil war midwest railroad ("Ohio Gauge") and was carried over first with horsecars, then cable cars, and finally electrics. Mainline use of the gauge pretty much ended after a famous wreck attributed to "compromise wheels" in 1867.  There was also a hometown car builder in this city.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 23, 2024 6:12 PM

Ohio gauge as I remember it was 4'10", not 4'9".  The 'compromise wheels' had wider treads with the flanges at 4'8.5" spacing, similar to how the Russian Decapods were converted, but the centering action on Ohio-gauge track could be insufficient.  See the description of the Angola Horror for one example.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 24, 2024 6:26 AM

Correct.  Like many streetcar systems with odd gauges, St. Louis stuck with its non-standard untile the end of rail operations in 1966.  Some of the PCCs went to San Francisco's Muni, first by lease, then later sale.  At least one of those has been preserved.Fortunately for Muni, PCC trucks are relatively easy to re-gauge.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, May 25, 2024 8:00 AM

Frankly I had no idea there were SIX cable systems in St. Louis, and I only know that much via a throwaway line in the Wikipedia article.  Can you give some details on these?

Also mentioned was the first 'steam' traction service that had a gauge different from everybody else's at the time.  There has to be a story behind that.

Someone needs to write about the ongoing follies with United Railways and the burglary and theft of the reform petition...

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 25, 2024 3:36 PM

George W. Hilton's monumental "The Cable Car in America" lists these systems in St. Louis:

St. Louis Cable & Western (side grip) 1887-1891

   St.L.C.&W. had a steam dummy operation on (most likely) 3 foot gauge that extended west from the cable line's end. 

Citizen's Railway (bottom grip) 1887-1894

Missouri Railroad (side grip) 1888-1901

Peoples Railway (side grip) 1890-1901

St. Louis Railroad (bottom grip) 1890-1900

All but the last were east-west systems.  St. Louis had a lot of cable mileage, maybe fourth behind San Francisco, Chicago and Kansas City.

The sixth system, the Western Cable Railway was a finite cable system used from 1891 to 1921 belonging to Lemp's Western Brewery, which crossed the St. Louis Railroad.  Technically a common carrier railroad, it was used to move boxcars from a St. Louis Iron Mountain & Southern connection, not for passengers.  It was the only St. Louis cable railway NOT built to 4'10" gauge.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 30, 2024 7:06 AM

A specific rail operatio ran with about 120 steam locomltives,  Electrification was accamplished 1901-1903.  The steam locomotives were sold off in small lots, one-to five for one buyer,  This process tiik time, and a special yard was built for their storage,  The last two were sold in 1942.

Name the railroad,  As a bonus, give further detailsd and name similar electrifications and steam-power sales.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 1, 2024 6:01 PM

The Manhattan Elevated Railroad, an amalgamation of the various El companies in New York, began the process of selling off its large stable of 0-4-4T Forneys in 1901.  Some went to a dealer, some were sold directly by Manhattan Elevated or successor Interborough Rapid Transit.  They ended up in a wide variety of industrial, forestry and other services where a small locomotive was an advantage.  Info on the storage yard can be found in some of Dave Klepper's posts over the last few years.

In Chicago, two of the four L companies opened service with steam locomotives.  The Chicago & South Side had 45 Baldwin-built steam locomotives.  It was the only one of Chicago's "L"s to use steam in the Loop. After reorganization as the South Side Rapid Transit(.), it was converted to electric MU operation, the first electric railway to do so.  The first 20 Forney's were shipped in a solid train, led by a Baldwin-owned locomotive later exhibited at the World's Columbian Exposition.

The Lake Street Elevated Railroad had 36 Rhode Island Forneys.  Lake Street converted to electric operation in 1896, at first with "Locomotive cars", later with MU cars.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 2, 2024 3:23 AM

Thanks, and hope you can ask a question,.

The Manhattal Elevated, then IRT steam storage yard at about 132nd  Street, between Willis and Third Afvenues, in The Bronx:

Manhaatn Elevated Forney:

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, July 5, 2024 9:34 AM

As the GSA cleaned house of Korean-war era railroad equipment in storage during 1973, some of it ended up in Amtrak service in three very different configurations.  I'll accept any two of the configurations, and the original equipment type for each.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 8, 2024 7:53 AM

Hospital cars and troop sleepers converted into material-handling cars for occasional baggage sevice, but mostly for the short-lived parcel delivery servicem a sort of revival of Railway Express service.  A few ended their careers as part of NEC work-trains and wire trains.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, July 8, 2024 11:56 AM

I thought the contribution of 'express cars' (that might have come directly from this source to Amtrak service) was limited to the trucks, to be used under one of the runs of "MHC" carbodies and perhaps those reefers, and that the trucks were said to have come from "REA cars" and not directly from a Government car sale to Amtrak.  These might have been the trucks that exhibited bad equalizers...

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 8, 2024 2:20 PM

While all of the conversions in the 1970s were "non-revenue" (that is, no seats were sold), one of the three conversions was for a passenger amenity (about 10 cars), one to release revenue space for passengers (about 30 cars) and the third for passenger train operation support (about 36 cars). Some of the last group were converted a second time to support Metroliner and other services.

The MOW conversions came later, after the former hospital cars were removed from service when eastern long distance trains were converted from steam heat to HEP.

Plenty of WWII-era troop carrying and hospital equipment went into pre-Amtrak service, for both passenger and express service.  The Korean war era cars were only of two types, and did not include any equipment converted by Amtrak for express service.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 9, 2024 2:19 AM

Without carefully finding Amtrak historical data, category 2 sounds like crew dorms with space for train crew to do their business without occupying passenger lounge space, and category 3 is steam-heat cars for locomotives without adequate on-board steam-generation capability.  I'd have thought there might be HEP generator cars involved but the 'hint' appears to rule that out.

Category 1 would be some kind of baggage accommodation, but I did not know there was any functional 'shortage' of better baggage cars from 'contributing' roads.  (I don't consider Amtrak Package Express a 'passenger amenity' Smile)

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 9, 2024 5:37 AM

Using your categories, the 10 cars in category 1 were rebuilt for non-revenue passenger use.  The category 2 use as crew dorms is correct, practically no mods at all.  Some of those were later rebuilt as straight baggage cars.  Amtrak had a bunch of ex-GN and ex-NP boiler cars, so, no boilers. Some of the "Category 3" group WERE converted to HEP generator cars (some even used in Metroliner service, with GG1s), but the initial conversion was for a much simpler purpose. 

Several of the "category 1" cars were specially outfitted for international service.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 4:24 AM

My take is that Overmod is up for the next question.  Agreed?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 11:58 AM

daveklepper
My take is that Overmod is up for the next question.  Agreed?

Negatory!

Only one-third of the question has actually been answered, and that was self-evident from a hint that was given, not from actual 'knowledge'.  My guess about train heat was solidly wrong.

We're perhaps a looooooong way from answering all 3/3 of the question!

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 11, 2024 6:10 AM

If it's any help all of the first group were cars of one type, the second an thirs groups were all buit from cars of a different type.

My first encounter with a baggage-dorm was on the "Inter-American" from St. Louis to Dallas in 1974.  The car was still in its original paint with an Amtrak car number stencilled on the side.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 17, 2024 8:17 AM

The first group of former Army hospital car equipment were built for food service, the last group ended up in food service, several of them with an international theme.

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