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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 6, 2022 2:01 AM

Please  give the  reasons for and natures of the four rebuildings.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 6, 2022 2:03 AM

Hint:

 Both photos after second rebuilding, two more to follow.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:32 AM

Built as open platform "Gate" cars.  Some cars rebuilt to "C" configuration 1923 (enclosed platforms) . Cars in NYC Transit Museum Rebuilt into "Q" cars (enclosed platforms) for 1938/1939 worlds fair.  Lightweight trucks 1950, changes to roof 1957, restored to 1907 appearance (open platform) 1979.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 6, 2022 7:07 AM

OK:  Why rerbuilt to Qs?  Why and from where light-weight trucks?  Why roof lowered?   Christey Strret connection involved?  Why?

The restoration did not include important items as seen in the photo/  Please mention what they are.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, October 6, 2022 7:37 PM

From what I can find the trucks were replaced in 1950 to allow service on the Third Ave. El, replaicing IRT gate cars. Since I don't know what type trucks they have I don't know where they came from (IRT gate cars?)  The 1957 mods were to run on the Myrte Avenue line, which required roof line changes for what must have been clearance reasons.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 7, 2022 6:42 AM

And what prompted the construction of Qs from gate cars?

The only subway tinnels constructed to railroad clearances for height. and that would permit passage of regular freight cars and the usual open-platform, cleristory-roof elevated cars were the subway tunnals from both the Manhattan andc Williams burg Bridges to the BMT's Chambers Street5 Station near Park Row and the Brooklyn Bridge Elevated Terminal, anf the entire Fourth Avenue Subway south from the Manhattan Bridge to Fort Hamilton.  All other subway tunnels in New York City had and have height restrictions and are intended for use only by steel subway cars.

With this information, anyone wish to go further?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 7, 2022 8:18 AM

daveklepper
And what prompted the construction of Qs from gate cars?

Cars were upgraded for service to the New York World's Fair 1939-1940.  The 1950 lightweight trucks came from IRT composite cars.  The 1957 roof change was for access (through the Subway) to the Coney Island Shop.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 7, 2022 5:44 PM

daveklepper
My understanding was the O-1 (4-4-4 or 2-B-2) was compatible with the P5 (4-6-4 or 2-C-2), sharing same control system. All gone by the time the GG1 fleet was finished.

I'd be interested to see if the L6 1-D-1s were, or more appropriately would have be since most weren't finished, were compatible.

A couple of the O1s had a long and satisfactory life in general service, in something that might make a good quiz question: they were 'dedicated' as a sort of very stable equivalent of an articulated R1 to take LV trains from Hunter Tower to the New York 'end' of their run.  When LV abolished passenger service, and the PRR had its 'cull' of oddball power in the early '60s, there was no particular reason to keep the 'set' operating.  (Wouldn't you have liked to be there to see a brace of these electrics taking over from Cornell-red PAs?)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, October 8, 2022 10:21 AM

Since the L6's were going to be the freight power to complement the P5's (and O1's) as passenger power, MU compatibility may not have been an issue.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 8, 2022 1:51 PM

The Chrystie Street project took the Manhattan Bridge to Broadway tracks  to Houston Street and then Sixth vAvenue. and  took the tracks tward the Chambers Street Station to the Broadway line,, leaving no connection from the Coney Island based southern Brooklyn part of the old BMT to the eastern part except via the "Nassau Cut" ?via tunnel" route. which lacked the necessaru height clearances.  Andcif you look carefully at the most recent photo posted, you'll see that the roofs remeined lowered.  And note the modern couplers.

Go ahead RC.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, October 8, 2022 5:32 PM

Post World War II, only one railroad's passenger trains operated on the Indiana Harbor Belt. Name the belt railroad they formerly traversed.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 10, 2022 12:26 PM

The Baltimore and Ohio, when it moved from Grand Central to the Chicago & Northwestern Terminal.  To reack Grand Central, it had used the tracks of its own best railroad, B&O asnd Chicago Terminal, which was a seperate corporation, a subsdiary, and classified and operated as a best railroad with other users.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 10, 2022 12:54 PM

Nope.  B&O (and PM) used C&NW's Rockwell Sub from Ogden Jct to Western Avenue. B&OCT rails were used from Pine Jct. to Ogden Jct.  The use of the IHB was for a similar length of time as C&NW's use of North Western's CPT.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:28 AM

rcdrye

Post World War II, only one railroad's passenger trains operated on the Indiana Harbor Belt. Name the belt railroad they formerly traversed.

 

The railroad is the Soo Line when they moved their remaining trains from Grand Central to Central Station.  The new route involved IC from Central Station to Broadview, where the IHB was used to connect with Soo just past Norpaul.

The former belt line is the B&OCT.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:47 AM

That's it.  All of the switches at Broadview and Franklin Park were hand-throws, so it was a pretty time-consuming move.  At the time (1963-1965) the remaining passenger train was primarily a mail train, though it did carry a sleeping car.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:12 AM

There is currently a third route involving passenger service on the former Soo Line. Metra's North Central Service uses the Milwaukee Road West Line from Chicago Union Station to Franklin Park, where it picks up the former Soo, now CN.

The locations of these Chicago stations: Woodlawn, Englewood, "Little" Englewood and Chicago Lawn; have something in common.  What is it?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 13, 2022 8:00 PM

You may want another answer but:

They are all located on the south side of Chicago, on or close to 63rd Street.

They all serve or served residents who live nearby and commute or commuted to jobs in downtown Chicago.

They were all and some are served by trains with diesel locomotives, not electric commuter-car MU trains.

Low-platform stations, not "level-boarding."

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 14, 2022 6:33 AM

Dave has, of course, answered the question.  For the record:

Woodlawn   IC, Big Four, MC 

Englewood   NYC, PRR, NYC&St L, CRI&P

"Little" Englewood   C&WI (Erie, Monon, C&EI, Wabash)

Chicago Lawn    GTW

Adding B&OCT's 63rd street station (B&O, PM) would have given it away.  None of the stations are in use today for intercity trains, though Metra still has a station at 63rd St.

63rd street was (and still is) a major street on Chicago's South Side.  It was the only east-west South Side street to get PCCs under CTA - prewar cars transferred from Madison St.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, October 14, 2022 10:10 AM

Dave's first answer was the one that I was looking for.  As an aside, I ride through "Little" Englewood twice a day.  The platforms and canopies still exist in a deteriorated state.  A check of NICTD's website shows that South Shore has a handful of trains that still stop at 63rd Street.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 16, 2022 4:24 AM

I ded make one important error.  The IC (with South Shore tenant) is, of course, electrified, and its station has high platforms  for level boarding.  But I do have a question ready, so I'll proceed:

What wasw most unusual about the Long Island Railroad's operation of the Rockaway line across Jamaica Bay, a type of opeation not seen on any other Class One or real railroad, and only seen in part on some streetcar, interurban. and rush hours on one NYC subway route with two rush-hour lines that do not run today.  This LIRR operation took place for many years and lasted until a hurricane took out the Jamaica Line.  The rebuilt line is part of the subway system, without the possibility of this type of operation. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 17, 2022 12:16 PM

Hints:  The West End Local and Culver Express ghad a small-scale versdion ofv the same typoe of thing in the New York subway system until 1967 and dating from pre-1940 Unification.

The New York City Terminals of the period were the Atlantic Terminsl at Flatbush Avenue, Brooklyn, and Pernnsylvania Station in Manhattan.  But what happened on Long Islasnd, includings Queens, including the Rockaways?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:06 PM

-Previous hints corrected.  Additional hint:

Colunting the around trip on the same routing in reverse as one. there were six different services prtovided!

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 24, 2022 3:15 AM

The over-Jamaica Bay line. today operated as part of the subway system. does see more than one service, but cannot be operated in the fashion it was with some time ago the LIRR.

Some time a go, probsbly on a TRAINS LIRR thread, as manager of the Columbia Grammar Preperatory School Football team, I reported that returning from a match with the Woodmere (LI) team at Woodmere Academy, the team was surprised to have mr bord a train that sdeemed to be going in the same direction as tterminasl. to my surpriserhec one we exited before the game. 

This clue should certainly provide the answer.

But the follwing year, with my not confirming the schedule, the train took us to Brooklyn's Atlantic Terminal, and my cklassmates were certain not to let me forget this error.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 25, 2022 8:42 AM

LIRR operated at least two joint services with BRT for a period up to maybe 1918 in cooperation with BRT from the Rockaways to a couple of points in Brooklyn not served by LIRR.  When the City purchased the Rockaway line from the LIRR in the mid 1950s it required extending an IND line to a BMT El segment and the construction of a couple of ramps, after which Rockaway line trains could get to any of several BMT/IND destinations.  My knowledge of NYCTA operations is limited so I can't name them all.  One of the side effects of the Rockaway acquisition was the effective merger of former BMT and IND services into the B-division.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 25, 2022 2:37 PM

Interesting, but not relevant.  It was the Crystie Street connection that merged the BMT and IND into now the B Division.   And the IND yook over the outer part of the abandoned-in-stages Fulton Street Elevated several years befole running to Far Rockaway and Rockaway Paek.

The joint LIRR=BMT swevices aew not relevent and ended much earlier.

 

Suggest you look at Rockaway LIRR timetables beforw the IND Subqat takeover, and you'll have the answer.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 26, 2022 4:31 AM

Is not it unusual, after going from A to B, to rerturtn to A by boarding a train at B going in the same direction as the train that you left when arriving at B?

 

So what does that say about what was unusual?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 4, 2022 4:51 AM

Possibly operation of the New York Central - Bostan and Albany Highland Branch (until conversion the the "D" Green-Line Light-Rail) and even the Elevated in downtown Chicago can be considered smaller-scale examples?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 10, 2022 3:03 PM

I gave lots of hints, and the vedry obvious answer is loop operation, most unusual for a Class One.  This allowed multiple services on the Over-the-Bay Line:

Penn. Sta. - Penn Sta. Clockwise and couterclockwise.

Atlanic (Brooklyn) Term. - Atlantic Term. clockwise and counterclockwise

Penn. Sta. - Atlantic Term. cl9ockwise and counter., and the reverse of each/

Additionally were Atalantic Term. and Penn. Sta. to and from Rockawat Park

Summers saw some service from Penn Sta. to and from Rockaway Park via Valley Stream and Far Rockaway, the long way around, not over the Bay.

Somromr rlse please ask the next question.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 20, 2022 2:22 PM

The name of the New Orleans Public Belt's Junction with the SP Sunset Route says it all. 

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