D&RGW's Farmington Branch (from Durango) was built as standard guage and converted to narrow in about 1923. It was apparently built to block SP and AT&SF interests from extending branches into the region, which has high plains ranching and was rich in coal deposits. At least some of the branch lasted to the end of D&RGW narrow guage freight operations in 1970.
The Farmington Branch did last until the end of NG D&RGW freight operations. The last few revenue trains carried pipe and other equipment for oil-wells. The actual abandonment included the branch with the Durango - Chama line, with the two states, New Mexico and Colorado, taking possession of Chama - Antonito, and the D&RGW holding on to Antonito - Alamosa for a while longer. However, the last revenue (as opoosed to clean-up trains) freight trains did operate several months ahead of those on the Durango - Alamosa line.
I felt very fortunatte to ride the branch line twice, once in 1961 and once in 1962, on Maurey Kleibolt Chicago Railroad Club specials. The second time in the office car William Jackaon Palmer.
And it was asked before, by you or someone else, and I answered correctly the first time,
rcdrye D&RGW's Farmington Branch (from Durango) was built as standard guage and converted to narrow in about 1923. It was apparently built to block SP and AT&SF interests from extending branches into the region, which has high plains ranching and was rich in coal deposits. At least some of the branch lasted to the end of D&RGW narrow guage freight operations in 1970.
Wow, we have a near photo finish. Both rcdrye and daveklepper are correct but Rob is the winner since his answer was posted 20 minutes ahead of Dave's.
The Rio Grande at one time considered standard gauging the line from Antonito to Durango (and possibly on to Silverton) and went so far as to survey a new route that would have a more favorable ruling grade than the narrow gauge line from Chama to Cumbres Pass. They decided there wasn't enough revenue potential to justify the project which led to the decision to covert the Farmington Branch to narrow gauge. The discovery of oil in the Farmington area in the early 1950's resulted in a minor traffic boom and saved the Branch from an early demise. A considerable volume of pipe and drilling supplies was transported and crude oil was shipped to Alamosa where it was transloaded to standard gauge cars. One of the tank car companies even acquired 70 new narrow gauge cars to handle this traffic.
Mark
This railroad's original main line segment west out of its namesake city was built as single track in 1847, double tracked fairly early, eventually growing to 5 tracks for the length of the original segment (double track west of there.) In the 1930's one of the tracks was removed for a water line to the raiload's major freight yard. In 1962 the line was further reduced to three tracks after a bunch of near-in suburban stations were closed, and a nearby rapid transit line was relocated.
Railroad (best known name is OK), RT line and major freight yard should do it.
The railroad is the Chicago & North Western, the rapid transit line is CTA's Lake Street Line (relocated from ground level operation west of Laramie to the C&NW embankment) and the yard is Proviso.
I knew that would have a quick turnaround. The original line ran 10 miles west to the Des Plaines River in what's now River Forest. It was soon extended west, double tracked and is now the very busy UP Galena Sub. The lift of the Lake St. L was in November 1962, so it makes our 50 year mark by a few months. It's interesting to note that the gates on the ground level "L" only had lanterns on the bars, had no crossing flashers and were hand operated to the end.
And the line on the ground used simple suspension trolley wire, with all cars motor cars assigned to Lake Street equipped with two trolley poles, and jumpers provided to power light and heat in the non-motored trailers. I do not believe Lake Street at the time used any control trailers, and my memory says all trains were gate cars, but that might be in error. I don't think any of the postwar cars, 6000's and after, were used on the line until after the "lift," except possibly test operation of the articulated experimental. I recall riding only gate cars in 1952.
Next question please
Lake St used all sorts of wood cars, including control trailers. Before and after the "lift" the line was almost completely equipped with 4000 series "Plushies" with poles. The 5001-5004 articulated experimentals could not operate west of Laramie due to clearance problems, and only made a couple of test trips (not sure what the problem was but it didn't seem to be worth fixing). 6000 series and 1-50 series PCC cars were never assigned to Lake St. The 2001-2180 series replaced all of the Plushies by mid-1966. 2200 series cars came in 1969 with the Lake-Dan Ryan through route.
Before the line change C&NW had suburban stations about every half mile along the stretch. The Oak Park station was the only one that remained after the change. "L" stations were reduced from 7 to 5, all at the same cross streets used by C&NW's former stations.
The 2000's were the Pullman green and cream and the 2200's the Budds or visa versa?
2000s were originally Alpine Green and White (later repainted a bunch of different ways). The Budd 2200s were (of course) Stainless Steel! 6000 series were originally painted in the fabulous Mercury Green and Croydon Cream scheme, with Swamp Holly Orange striping. Most of the 6000s ended up in the Green and White scheme by the early seventies, before bicentennial mania hit.
CSS - we're ready for your question!
CRT/CTA operated some rapid transit service on trackage rights arrangements. Name the operations involved, the railroads on which the rapid transit operated, and the year the operations were discontinued.
The CRT and CTA operated Gaarfield Park service west of Laramie on the CA&E out to Mannheim and stopped around 1951, with the CA&E continuing to provide service at longer headways and higher fares. The Northside Elevated for a while had trackage rights on the Milwaukee's Evanston Branch untl the CRT bought the line while continuing to provide freight service for the Milwaukee, I think this was just before WWWI. The Stockyards Branch operated on trackage rights on RoW owned by the Stockyards own railroad until the CTA abandoned the line around 1956(?) The Dempter Street - Howard Street line had local stops and operated on trackage rights on the North Shore north (west) of Howard Street, and trackage rights continued to be used after the service was discontinued around 1950 to reach the CTA's shops which were located on the CNS&M and not on the CTA itself! The CTA bought the line with the final CN&M abandonment in 1963 and later restored some nonstop service with the Skokie Swift. This continues today. The CNS&M continued to serve Demster Street, again higher fares and longer headways, as long as it operated.
rcdrye 2000s were originally Alpine Green and White (later repainted a bunch of different ways). The Budd 2200s were (of course) Stainless Steel! 6000 series were originally painted in the fabulous Mercury Green and Croydon Cream scheme, with Swamp Holly Orange striping. Most of the 6000s ended up in the Green and White scheme by the early seventies, before bicentennial mania hit. By Pullman, I meant manufacturer, not the green color! Thanks for the answer! CSS - we're ready for your question!
By Pullman, I meant manufacturer, not the green color! Thanks for the answer!
Actually the 2000s were built by Pullman...
The North Side line had a long and tangled history. Built by CM&St. P. interests as a separate company it was intended to provide lakefront service to Milwaukee in competition to the C&NW. The furthest is got was Llewellyn Park in what is now Wilmette on the site of the present CTA Linden station. The Chicago and Milwaukee Electric got trackage rights south to Church St.. in Evanston in 1904. The Northwestern Elevated entered into a trackage rights agreement in 1908 where NWE had rights to Central Avenue Evanston and C&ME retained their rights to Church St (about a mile of overlap.) NWE extended to Linden (Llewellyn Park) in 1911. CM&St. P provided the tracks, NWE the overhead, C&ME paid something to both. Freight and oversize C&ME cars got around NWE stations on gauntlet tracks.
This odd arrangement remained in place even after the North Shore started operating to the Loop, maintaining their own platform at Davis for Shore Line trains after their Evanston local service ended. The NWE and successors CRT and CTA operated freight service to CMSt.P&P's account until 1973 along the north side right of way which had been elevated with the help of CM&St. P crews in the teens and twenties. CTA gained ownership in the 1950s - I'm pretty sure after the end of Shore Line service.
daveklepper is correct and has the right to the next question.
I possibly left one out, in that the Kenwood branch also used former steam RR RoW, but in this case I think this was just bought directly and never involved trackage rights.
I will ask a similar question: The New Yok City Tranist Auhtority operates on RofWs that at one time or another had steam locomotives in regular freight and/or pasenger or electric locomotives in interchange frieght service operating. Name as many as you can, minimum number six.
Several have been discussed on recent posts here and on the TRAINS Transit post.
and one was in the news recently and over the past year
and another opened its rapid transit service with some of the very oldest New York City equipment avilable, long since scrapped.
and a third currently operates on (or in?) the oldest structure still in use in rapid transit service in New York City.
And four others had a common destination.
And one had a unique feature discussed in this forum but no longer existing.
I am surprised that nobody has come up with six out of eight of the answers. I thought everyone knew about which steam railroads became rapid transit lines in one particular borough of NYC. One was commonly named after its builder. OK, if anyone has five answers, go ahead and be the winner.
I can only come up with two for sure - one ex-Long Island and one South Brooklyn RR.
The South Brooklyn was not a steam railroad. It was set up as the freight railroad of Brooklyn United, then Brooklyiln Rapid Transit, and then after the Malbone St. tradgedy caused reorganization, the Brooklyn Manhattan Transit, and finally the New York City Transit Authority. In fact, i do not believe the SB ever owned a steam locomotive. By the time it was set up, all lines were lectrified, and the only steam remaining was through service to a particular common destination by LIRR summer only trains using the same tracks as some of SB freight service. It certainly did haul freight, and hauled it over three of the lines that were once steam railroads. But there were four, and there is no record I know of of the SB hauling frieght on the one of the four that alway had and sstill has the heaviest passenger service of the four. I never saw a freight siding on that line. I never sas a freight siding on one of the lines the SB run over, but it was a good shortcut between important interchange points, and so I once did see an SB steeple cab with a bunch of boxcars, one of which was Illinois Terminal!. So, look deeper and then you will have five to speak insteada of just two. And one other is extremely obvious and has been discussed often in this Forum, with its reopening in part as a rapid transit line using the oldest equipment operating at the time. The hints given should give nearly all of them away.
The LIRR item was the Rockaway Beach line, later taken over by MTA.
The South Brooklyn was not a steam railroad. It was set up as the freight railroad of Brooklyn United, then Brooklyiln Rapid Transit, and then after the Malbone St. tradgedy caused reorganization, the Brooklyn Manhattan Transit, and finally the New York City Transit Authority. In fact, i do not believe the SB ever owned a steam locomotive. By the time it was set up, all lines were lectrified, and the only steam remaining was through service to a particular common destination by LIRR summer only trains using the same tracks as some of SB freight service. It certainly did haul freight, and hauled it over three of the lines that were once steam railroads. But there were four, and there is no record I know of of the SB hauling frieght on the one of the four that alway had and sstill has the heaviest passenger service of the four. I never saw a freight siding on that line. (But it probably did haul freigiht in its steam days, inclding consructiion material for hotels.) I never sas a freight siding on one of the lines the SB run over, but it was a good shortcut between important interchange points, and so I once did see an SB steeple cab with a bunch of boxcars, one of which was Illinois Terminal!. So, look deeper and then you will have five to speak insteada of just two. And one other is extremely obvious, was not steam but did have one frieght locomotive for a small amount of freight business (mostly coal delivery, like the Philadelphia and Western's freight business), and has been discussed often in this Forum, with its reopening in part as a rapid transit line using the oldest equipment operating at the time. The hints given should give nearly all of them away.
rc, of course you are correct. But you were not supposed to give an answer until you came up with 5!!!
So now you are OBLIGED to do the research and come up with four more, which should be eashy given the thread so far.
With no claim to completeness here are eight:
South Brooklyn Ry (electrics in interchange - read the question!)
BMT Canarsie
BMT Sea Beach
BMT Culver
BMT West End (Brookly Bath and Coney Island)
BMT Brighton
IND Rockaway (the recently reopened ex-LIRR line)
SIRT
Thanks to Nariq01 for the pointer.
All have now been tallied. Yes, the NYW&B did handle freight in the Bronx, because its freight interchange was at the south end, not in New Rochelle or Portchester, and its single juice jack picked up and delivered at the NYNH&H Oak Point Yard. Again, the South Brooklyn does not count because it operated over the tracks of three of the four Coney Island Lines, all exept the Brighton Line, in my experience. What very limited tracks were exclusively South Brooklyn, were not used by post-electrification passenger service, and the SB was formed after electrification. There may still be some tracks that are exclusively SB between 9th Avenue station and the Brooklyn Waterfront, including some tracks in the 39th St. yard, although I suspect these are not considered SB tracks and are used by MofW trains. But yes, the Broadway elevated and the first part of its extension to Jamacia were opened with steam, The stretch between Crescent and ENY is the oldest existing structure used in rail transportation in New York City. That on Broadway, w of ENY to the Bridge was rebuilt duing the Dual-Contracts era. Although Brighton, Culver (Prospect Park and Coney Island Railway), West End (West End & Bath Beach), and Sea Beach also have rebuilt structure of one type of another, there are traces of the original still in use. In the case of the Brighton, this is mostly in the Prospect Park - Parkside area, for Culver, the lead into Coney Island Yard, and for Sea Beach and West End, the tracks just north of the Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island station. Similarly, the on-level portion of the Canarsie Line is original, and it is also a former steam railroad line.
OK rc, let's see your question!
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