Tower track diagram

[train18393]

I am confused by some pictures, or possibly not. I am trying to figure out where the track diagram board and the levers were in relation to the main tracks. Were they facing the main tracks, or were they in the "back" of the tower in relation to the main tracks? I am modeling a Big Four tower on stilts and going to put a simple interior including levers, track diagram, biffy, desk, and other large objects. This interior will be light with a small overhead lame so it will be visible. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have been to a couple of towers in Ohio like Alexis, Vickers & Wabash in Toledo, not Big Four-on stilts; as well as a couple of others near West Dayton, but I do not remember the layout of the interior. I do remember the interiors being a green similar to Alpine Green & Cream of the EMD units, but that could be wrong also.

Thanks

Paul DeMuth 

[Anonymous]

train18393, it appears that you are rather unique, a modeler with a modeling question whose answer most likely can be found on this forum rather than a model train forum.

I worked in several towers and those I remember most clearly had the levers facing the track with the diagram hanging above the levers.  The big windows were track side and while operating the levers, you could look out the side windows, up and down the tracks, with the order board handle also near at hand.

However, there were exceptions, especially on non-'armstrong' interlockings.  The electrical wires could be easily run anywhere, not like the pipes to an armstrong interlocking.

An example is Corwith Tower on the Southwest side of Chicago.  It sat between the old Santa Fe and the old Chicago and Alton.  When operating the plant, my back was to the Alton tracks and the Santa Fe tracks were running in front of me, on the backside of the machine. The diagram was on the far (North) wall.  Although both railroads ran southwest, at thie tower both tracks were running east/west with the old Illinois Norther crossing both in a north/south direction.

My memory says the tower was East of the IN tracks but my diagram of the track arrangement says the tower was West of the IN tracks.  And after visiting a few of the places I worked 60 years ago, I think I'd better not rely on my memory ANYMORE.

Art

[rrboomer]

As almost all interlocking towers were retangle shaped buildings the levers for the "armstrong" type plants will be on the long wall facing the tracks.

Two examples that come to mind are Thornton Jct (GTW-CEI). The levers and track diagram faced east along the C&EI, which had all the armstrong switches, locks and signals. Other is JK Tower just west of South Bend, levers faced NYC Kankakee line.

Homan Ave in Hammond was a non armstrong plant and the switch and signal levers (pistol grips) faced away from the IHB/MC with the Monon, Erie/C&O,NKP all being east of the tower.

[train18393]

Thanks for the input, the arnstribg lever plant and track diagram will go to the front of the tower with the interlocking machine. Biffy, desk and potbelly etc will go wherever they will fit. I have had plenty of questions, but I usually research in books and the internet to find the correct answer, but there is nothing like getting answers from people who know first hand. I always asked my father who retired from the Chessy System (C&O) or my Grandpa (NYC) but unfortunatly my prior sources are now at the throttle of a Hudson on the way to Laselle on the Century!

Thanks again

Paul  

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a good design, train18393.  The JN tower in Lincoln Illinois was an armstrong plant.  It was on the East side of the tracks with the long West side, with all the windows, facing the tracks.  The levers were along that side with the diagram up on the wall above the windows.

The short sides of the tower had windows partway back from trackside. The back (East) wall had no windows, the stairs coming up along that side and the doorway near the South wall.  Telegraph and phone lines came in near the roof at that corner and the grounding terminal block was on the South wall close to the door.  During electrical storms that block was a sight to behold, and one to stay away from. 

The desk, with phone and telegraph, was along the North wall in the Northeast corner.  The heat source, a pot belly stove, was in the middle of the East wall. 

Old time sources keep getting rarer and rarer.  My three older brothers are no longer around to have their brains picked; wish I'd done a more thorough job when I had the chance! 

Art

[J. Edgar]

for whats its worth every tower ive been in as both a railfan and employee the track diagram/lever bank always faced the "primary" or owning railroad......that line or lines is the front of the building hence the orientation of the diagram/levers

[train18393]

Another quick answer or two please, if you don't mind. In an armstrong plant what are the chanches of using the armstrong levers to throw the electric track switch motors and electrical signals, or would they have replaced the armstrong plant with something new from US&S?  I do plan on modeling the pipes and levers, bellcranks etc. that moved the track switches as if they had recently been replaced by electric switch motors. I don't know how many times I triped over them while taking pictures as a younger man, but for some reason I ignored the towers themselves.

For Art, thank you very much for your input, was the AC power feed through to the electrical wiring in the south east corner on the rear wall by the grounding lug, also was there a pin block on the south wall with insulators on the outside of the wall where the wires for the telephone and telegraph lines were terminated.

 Thanks again for all the info. I do want to at least come close to correct on this project, and will use it to build several towers. 

Paul  

 

 

[rrboomer]

Yes, if the switch or signal was later converted to an electric motor the lever would still be used to operate the switch. The lever protects the system from a conflicting movement being set up.

Over the years most interlockings had levers removed from service. A couple of examples would be when the derails and associated locks where removed. Each interlocking plant has a "Master lever" To line up a route for railroad  "A" the master lever would be in (example) out position, to line up a route for railroad "B" the lever would have to be in the opposite position.

[Anonymous]

Paul (train18393), it's been too long ago; I just don't remember where the AC came in nor how the telegraph/phone lines came through the wall.  But I DO remember that grounding board lighting up during an electrical storm. 

When there were problems with the telegraph lines, the operator would be instructed to ground a line south or north of the station/tower to help isolate or pinpoint the problem.  But at this late date, I scarcely remember how the board looked or was used.  I had no camera at that time, and I now sure wished I'd had one and taken some pictures.

Art

 

[spikejones52002]

The Santa Fe Corwith tower was a yard tower. The yard master top floor and tower operator second floor down and looked over the yard.

The feed into Corwith was controlled by IC tower North of Corwith and East of the feed tracks. It sat South of I-57 West of Kedize Ave.

The tower operator faced south.He had his back to the IC trackage and right sholder to the Santa Fe feeder. I do not know the type of control mechanism. He used pull - push levers  in a console and not floor mounted swing arms.

[Anonymous]

I don't want to 'hi-jack' this thread but only to clarify or add to a couple of posts.

J. Edgar in his post said that the towers he was in had the 'diagram/lever bank' facing the '"primary" or owning railroad'.  As I understand it, in Illinois the first railroad at a junction gets to have their employee in the interlocker and the next railroad gets to help to defray some or all of the costs.  I have no idea who EXACTLY owns the tower. 

At the Corwith interlocking, the Chicago & Alton (later, Alton, later GM&O, then ICG, then IC, and now Canadian National) was there first (the GM&O name was on my paycheck).  The tower sat on or adjacent to their ROW (right of way) on the north side of the tracks, and the ATSF (now BNSF) ROW was quite a way further to the north.  (I had to flag and walk an ATSF passenger train across the interlocker one snowy night when the snow kept the signals from clearing; it IS quite aways away and seems MUCH further away in a snow storm!!). 

The Santa Fe's Corwith Yard was on the south side of the Alton (now CN) tracks; there is a canal running along the north side of the Santa Fe mainline so there was no room on that side to build their yard.  Thus, all ATSF freight trains entering or leaving Corwith Yard had to traverse the interlocking plant, crossing the Alton's double track main line.

The tower's panel and machine faced away from the Alton; the Alton tracks were behind the operator while he was at the machine.

I suspect each tower is built and engineered to minimize costs but have nothing to back up this opinion.

Spikejones52002 mentions the 'IC tower - - sat South of I-57 West of Kedize Ave'.  Should read 'south of I-55 west of Kedzie'

Art 

[rrboomer]

I would suspect the orientation between the armstrong interlocking towers and the railroads that crossed was strictly dictated from an engineering viewpoint. There were usually a lot of rod and levers to be run to the the controlled switches and signals, plus each rod had a  number of supports which each had a concrete pad. So it would seem logical that things would be built and located to minimize the length of rods, number of bell cranks, support pads, etc.

I have noticed that in most cases the operator's desk and communications were set up so he had a good view of the tracks of the railroad that signed his paycheck.

[timz]

for whats its worth every tower ive been in as both a railfan and employee the track diagram/lever bank always faced the "primary" or owning railroad......that line or lines is the front of the building hence the orientation of the diagram/levers

You mean, when the towerman is facing the board he has his back to the RR?

[John Busby]

Hi guys

Signal boxes Towers as you call them.

The pannel and levers are faced so the signal man can operate the signals and points and in the old days level crossings as well, but he can also see the train operations with ease as well.

So the windows levers and diagram and track are all on the same side of the tower there are Exceptions to the rule and that is determined by rail safety issues not who owns the tower.

When electric signals and points started to come in the signal lever tail was attached to a bulky switch which operated the signal or set of points in this way they did not loose the benefit of the mechanical interlocking built in to the lever frame

This is true of all mechanical signal frames regardless of manufacturer 

regards John

[train18393]

Thank  you very much for much informative discourse. I have learned alot about the layout of towers and their major componants.

 I have seen telephone mainframes light up during lightning storms. It looks like Frankenstein being antimated. Ma Bells' equipment had carbon blocks on every wire pair coming into the mainframe so the surge would be grounded . It does not require a direct hit to cause alot of fried carbon blocks. Just the charge that is generated in the length of wires hanging on the poles can be enough to fry the carbons. Cooked carbons are so much easier to change than stepper switches. I am sure the railroads had something similar on their lines as Ma Bell had in their inside plant.

 

thanks again for all your information, now I know that I am at least on the right track.

Paul 

[John Busby]

Hi train18393

On signaling equipment a variety of lightning arrestors have been used to blow and direct the charge to earth away from the equimment these are more than just on the telephone lines

They are also in equipment cases and on various ccts but nothing will survive a direct hit

I would not like to see what would happen without the arrestors it does enough damage when we have them

regards John