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Cincinnati Union Terminal Departures / Arrivals

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Cincinnati Union Terminal Departures / Arrivals
Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Tuesday, June 8, 2021 5:13 PM

I have been looking about for a daily arrivals and departures at Cincinatti for maybe 1948 or thereabouts. I can cobble something together from available timetables but it would be a lot easier and I would be less likely that I'd miss services if I could just see everything in one.

I appreciate there's a list of named services on Wikipedia but I am thinking there must've been more.

I've looked under the usual stones but does anyone have any pointers?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 10:21 AM

If you can find a copy of the Official Guide for that particular period, your task might be a bit easier.  There were also a lot of unnamed locals operating during that era, too.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 10:49 AM

I am interested in this topic, so please let me give it a try!

PRR:

  • Cincinnati Limited (to/from New York City)

NYCRR:

  • Ohio State Limited  (to/from New York City)
  • James Whitcomb Riley (to/from Chicago) 

B&O:

  • Cincinnatian  (to/from Detroit)

C&O:

  • George Washington  (to/from  Washington, DC)
  • Fast Flying Virginian (to/from  Washington, DC)
  • Sportsman (to/from  Washington, DC)

L&N: 

  • Humming Bird (to/from New Orleans) 
  • Flamingo (to/from  Atlanta, Georgia)
  • Pan American (to/from New Orleans)

N&W:

  • Cavalier (to/from Norfolk)
  • Pocahontas (to/from Norfolk)
  • Powhatan Arrow (to/from Norfolk)

Southern:

  • Royal Palm (to/from Miami, Florida)
  • Ponce de Leon (to/from Jacksonville, Florida)
  • Carolina Special (to/from the Carolinas)

I am 100% sure there should be more trains on the list, but I don't have time to dig deeper.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 12:31 PM

B&O also had through trains - The National Limited, The Diplomat and the Metropolitan Special.  There were several numbered trains that operated from Detroit through CUT to Louisville.  I believe there was also a local that operated over the secondary lines between Cincinnati and Pittsburgh.

C&O 'might' have had a train operating between Cincinnati & Chicago - a maid of all work local.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 8:05 PM

From the February 1948 Official Guide:

Cincinnati Union Terminal hosted these railroads for passenger service:

Baltimore & Ohio

Chesapeake & Ohio

New York Central System

Louisville & Nashville

Norfolk & Western

Pennsylvania

Southern Railway System (CNO&TP)

It also hosted the Erie at its Freight House.

B&O: National Limited, Diplomat, Cincinnatian, unnamed 11/12 from Baltimore/Washington, 33/34, Washington Express from Pittsburgh, four numbered trains to Louisville, three to Detroit.   The Cincinnatian name was soon moved to one of the Detroit trains.

C&O: FFV, George Washington, Sportsman from Washington.  19/20 Hammond IN (Chicago via Erie)

NYCS: Royal Palm, Ponce de Leon, Florida Sunbeam, six pairs of numbered trains to Cleveland, Ohio State Limited, Cincinnati Special, Carolina Special, plus various locals

L&N: Azalean, Humming Bird, Pan American, 3/4, 7/8.  17/18,29/30 to Winchester.

N&W: Cavalier, Pocahantas, Powhatan Arrow, 23/24

PRR:   Cincinnati Limited, 213,267,227,202,206,222.  From Chicago: Southland, Union, Cincinnati Daylight Express, Cincinnati Night Express

Southern: Royal Palm, Ponce de Leon, Florida Sunbeam, Carolina Special, Skyland Special

These are mostly from the condensed schedules.  Many of the trains carried Pullmans that ended up on connecting trains, or which made across-the-platform connections for other destinations.  I'm sure I missed a couple but the list illustrates how many trains called there on a given day.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:21 PM

Thanks everyone forthese great tips. Embarrassingly I'd never heard of the Official Guide and found a scanned one from 1945 on streamliner schedules. Amazing amount of detail. Thanks for outlining those from 1948 redrye.

I've long pondered where'd have been the place to see so many of the locomotives and trains I like best and Cincinnatti must be the place. In one day sandwiches and flask in hand I could have seen A Niagara, a P7d, an F-19 and a N&W J, but by the look of things so, so much more. The mind boggles ;)

Thanks again!

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:17 PM

From its 1947 inception until early in 1950, The Cincinnatian operated the Baltimore-Cincinnati route.  In 1950 it was switched to the Detroit-Cincinnati route.  The streamlined P7d's could handle additional cars on the Detroit route.  On the Baltimore route the schedule limited the train to 5 cars.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, June 11, 2021 6:31 AM

The Cincinnatian was also supposed to be competition for C&O's Chessie, which never started...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, June 11, 2021 10:22 AM

rcdrye

The Cincinnatian was also supposed to be competition for C&O's Chessie, which never started...

 
N&W established the "Powhatan Arrow" for the same reason.  Both were money-losers but B&O re-routed the "Cincinnatian" since Detroit-Cincy had better potential and N&W could afford to eat the losses from the "Powhatan Arrow".
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Saturday, June 12, 2021 2:17 AM

I really do have to make a table of this stuff.

In 1949 the Cincinnatian and the Powattan Arrow would have been lined up for departure at the same time as the George Washington arrived. That would have been sight to behold.

More research needed.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, June 12, 2021 8:11 AM

Representation of the Westbound trip

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Sunday, June 13, 2021 4:51 PM

Thanks BaltACD it's a great simulation isn't it?

I'm lucky enough to have a Key Imports Cincinnattian which is definitely the pride of the fleet. More than that it currently has pride of place on the living room mantle. Not sure my wife is as fond of it as I am though, or the dusting exclusion zone ;D. That was one of the things that drew my curiosity to CUT.

I seem to have come through on the Cardinal in 1988 but at that point in my life knew nothing about Cincinnati at all 

There's great footagr of the Cincinnatian here as well as EM-1s and a streamlined C&O 4-6 4

https://youtu.be/VyoOTgqM76Q

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:02 PM

TheFlyingScotsman
There's great footagr of the Cincinnatian here as well as EM-1s and a streamlined C&O 4-6 4

https://youtu.be/VyoOTgqM76Q

I have watched that video several times.  A great testament to the train and its time.

I do wish someone with some B&O geographical knowledge had edited the footage together in geographical order.  The opening scene appears to be a engine at Grafton before or after the engine change.

The routine operation of the Cincinnatian had a engine change at Grafton in both directions.  There were four streamlined Cincinnatian engines.  The routine operations kept three of the four busy on a daily basis.  The spare, I believe, was kept around Baltimore and it is highly likely that the four were routinely rotated through the daily operations, with a different 'spare' being in Baltimore each day.

Mt. Royal station that is pictured before the early morning Westbound departure, is now operated by the Maryland Institute of Art.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Monday, June 14, 2021 3:44 AM

Yes I took that first scene to be the engine change at Grafton too. Mein Gott changed days there alright! And not for the best. 

Mount Royal. That's a good tip. I'll look that up I was trying to figure that one out. 

What about the big cement plant do you know where that is?

But yes what a period piece....

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, June 14, 2021 9:02 AM

TheFlyingScotsman
There's great footagr of the Cincinnatian here as well as EM-1s and a streamlined C&O 4-6 4 https://youtu.be/VyoOTgqM76Q

Thank you so much for posting this awesome video. Those 12-wheel rebuilt heavyweight betterment cars of B&O are very elegant; beautiful livery and streamlining, probably ride like a Pullman sleeper as well. 

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 14, 2021 12:00 PM

Jones1945
Those 12-wheel rebuilt heavyweight betterment cars of B&O are very elegant; beautiful livery and streamlining, probably ride like a Pullman sleeper as well.

Remember that B&O got into 'real' lightweight streamlined trains very early.  They did not ride satisfactorily and were sent (with the boxcab power) to the Alton.

By 1947 B&O had a good evolved sense of what "their" competition in that hottest of developing late-Forties markets -- from somewhere to Cincinnati -- ought to involve.

Bet the food was among the best, too.  Makes me hungry just thinking

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, June 14, 2021 2:01 PM

Overmod
Bet the food was among the best, too.  Makes me hungry just thinking

My Grandfather would have ensured that!

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