trips of long ago

[daveklepper]

been asked to post traih-riding experiences from the classic era, and would llke suggesions as to where to begin.  Possible topics include:

grade schiool and high-school exploration of NY subways and elevateds

New YOrk area streetcars

13 years old and Suncook Valley

15 years old and West shore and Ulster and Delaware branch

Summer 1950 visit to Montreal, streetcars

Train riding while in the Army  (Ft. Monmouth, Ft. Bragg)

California Zepnyr (not  Amtrak)

Rio Grande Zephyr

New Haven

Metro North Commuting

KC-Fla Special

First fan trips, Bronx trolley, 3rd Av elevated-IRT, CNJ steam

Branford, ShoreLine Trolley Museum tales

Mayrie Kleibolt's Colorado NG trips

ERA San Francisco Convention, other SF experiences

Laural Line, Scranton, Willksbarre

Europe, 1960

Great Britain

Winter Olymics and ERA Convention in Calgaray and Edmonton, plus CN to Vancouver, Sky Train visit

Where to begin?

[wjstix]

One of the most under-appreciated train rides still available is the Metro-North trip up the old NYC Water Level Route from Grand Central to Poughkeepsie. IIRC it's 74 miles to Poughkeepsie, back when I rode it in the 1990's a round trip cost about $17. For that, you got several hours of historic railroading up the Hudson, seeing West Point, Sing Sing, etc...plus of course, getting to experience Grand Central Terminal. A great trip for a Saturday or Sunday.

[NorthWest]

Dave, I'd say start from the beginning, the streetcars, subways and elevateds in New York.

[henry6]

This is what go Ridewithmehenry started.   Lots to ride which are historic and with history to see.  We've done all commuter lines in and out of NYC at least twice...Did Waterbury for the 3rd time two weeks ago...some Philadelphia area and spent most of Fall doing the surface lines of Brooklyn and Queens.   Am working on Mid to late Feb trip right now....we drive 2-3 hours from Binghamton NY, usually ride form Port Jervis, NY or Lake Hopatcong, NJ  just for the fun of riding history.  Only charge is train fare and anyone can join us along the way..

[daveklepper]

Streetcars

From about age 10, I began spending Saturdays with my Aunt Leah, who was a pioneer in Hebrew education in the USA and moved to Israel in 1950 (when I was 18) and taught English and English and American lliterature untii 1985.  This meant riding my favorite trolley line with my favorite streetcars, Broadway - 42nd Street line, equipped in 1937 and 1938 with the double-end lightwieght off-center exit "Huffliners" cars 551-625.  I  continued to about age 16, about two years after buses ran, Decemberr 1946, after which I used the Broadway-7th Avenue local subway trains.  Lunch was always at Leventhals Kosher restaurant, where  out the window I could watch the streetcars.  I suppose, in restrospect, that the streetcar rides and viewing helped the education process.  But one day at the restaurant, the  thought came:  I've been to Coney Island by subway many many times.  I  wonder if I should try it by streetcar all the way.  So  one Saturday during a vacation period when I wasn't shipped via train to relatives in the south, I did it.   About age 12.  I told my parents that I would not be coming home directly from Aunt Leah's but should be back just before dinner.  I had hoped  to go to Coney Island and back by streetcar, but that was optomistic.   I boarded the B streetcar after lunch with Aunt Leah at 106th and Broadway, asked  for a transfer after deposting my nickle in the fairbox,, enjoyed the ride down Brooaway, through Times Sq, and across 42nd Street to 3rd Avenue, transferred to a southbound T car in the 101-200 series (4 end doors, like most TATS home-built lightweights) and got off at the end of the line,  Park Row, Citty Hall.  New fare, new nickle, deposited in the turnstyle at the front of the PCC signed Coney Island,, and 68 Smith Street -  Coney Island Avenue that had been waiting on one of the loop tracks at the side   of  Park Row between the traffic lanes  to the Brooklyn Bridge.   I enjoyed the ride over the Brooklyn Bridge   on tracks that had been used by elevated trains until 1942, when the Myrtle and Lexington elevated trains were  cut back to Bridge and Jay Streets, and the Brooklyn Bridge streetcars shifted from the roadways to the PRW in center.  Then came slow street running in downtown Brooklyn, wiith several types of cars on seven or eight lines observed.  We picked up speed on Smith Street, but ran somewhat slower under the massive IND elevated structure on 9th Street.  A mile or so after the 9th Street drawbridge over the Gowanus Canal, at Bartel-Priitched Square I got a surprise.  A Transit Authority man boarded with a hand-held fare collector and collected an aditional nickle from all passengers riding through.  I did not argue.  I had ridden on the line on Coney Island Avenue before, going between relatives  homes, so the fast running, with loading islands at streetcar stops, was expected.  With waits, the trip took about two hours from the time I left the restauramt, and now it was about 4pm, when I arrived under the wood "train shed"  over   the four Coney Island (streetcar) Terrminal loop tracks.  I decided I could not return by streetcar, since three nickles would be necessary, and I only had a dime left.  A opted for a five-cent return trip, riding a Briighton local to Prospect Park, the Franklin Avenue Shuttle, the A train to 59th Street, and the AA local to 86th Street and home.  About a 90-minute trip includng waits.  My parents were satisfied that I arrived in time for dinner.   But then came another thought:   What about streetcar all the way from Coney Island to the Yonkers-Hastings line?  Next installment  

[KCSfan]

Dave, I'd like to hear about your trip on the Suncook Valley, the Blueberry Express line. I imagine your motive power was No. 1, their ancient slide valve Mogul. You probably rode a B&M connecting train to/from Center Barnstead and I'd like to hear about that trip also.

Mark

[henry6]

I second the motion.

[daveklepper]

Whn did the B&M run to Center Barnstead?   I know they had a line from Rochester to Alton Bay, but I did not know it ran southwest to Center Barnstead?  I rode Suncook Valley the summer of 1945, four times, and the Pitttsfield - Center Barnstead line had been abandoned.

I was attending a summer camp in Center Barnstead.  We got there via overnight coach, the usual 8200-series American Flyers, on the Naragansett, from Grand Central Terminal to South Station.  Bleary-eyed, our camp group was divided into several groups, each with two counselors and about 15 campers, leaving South Station about 10 miniiutes apart, descending to what is now the Red Line, then the "Cambridge -Dorcheser Tunnel."  Rode one stop to Washington Street.  I recall all the train doors on all the cars being open with grilles across including the 1st car, to provide a breeze.  (Had plenty of time to experience this much later in my MIT days.)  Then the "Main Line Elevated in the Washington Street Tunnel" three stops north to the elevated North Station stop.   There we boarded non-airconditioned coaches directly behind the mail-baggage car behind the CP 4-6-2, ahead of a CP coach and the parlor-buffet-obs on the Allouette to Concord, where two chartered B&M buses took us to the camp.

I was scheduled to make five visits spaced through the summer to dentist in Concord, within walking distance of the classic and to me very beautiful Concord Railway Station.  Suncook Valley Transportation Co. ran a twice-daily round trip between Alton Bay and Concord, with its hood-in-front burgandy and maroon bus, and I was to have an early breakfast, catch the bus to Concord with a brown-bag lunch, have a noon apointment with the dentist, be back at the railroad station at 4:40pm for the bus return, amusing myself as possible in Concord during the free time.  On the first trip I got to the Concord station for the return early to watch the railroad action, and saw the loco and combine of the Suncook Valley leave.  I thought nothing of it until I saw the same equipment at the Pittsfield station when the bus stopped there. I asked the bus driver if I could ride it on my next trip and meet the bus in Pittsfied.  Getting a yes for an answer, that is what I did for the subsequent four visits.

The train left Concord with just the loco and the combination car, which had ten or twelve (five or six each side) walkover dark-grey leather-covered walkover seats, a baggage and express compartment, and a 15-foot manned railway post-office compartment, with a blunt baggage-car end without diaphragm on that end, and a typical B&M open platform on the other end, with windows flanking the center end door.  After leaving Concord, the afternoon train (i understand that at times there was a morning one) backed into the south yard, the loco uncoupled, and picked up loaded coal hopper cars from an adjacent track, and recoupled to the combine, mail end forwad.  We then ran south, crossing the Merimack River on the double-track steel bridge, that had only one track, the other, used  by the B&M Manchester - Concord interurban, having been removed.   Then came the siding and switchback, with the locomotive heading to Pittsfield with its smokebox directly in front of the open platform, tender -first.  The crew were as friendly as the bus driver was, and I could explore the entire car, including the mail room after the mail was unloaded in Pittsfield while waiting for the bus to arrive, but was not invited to the locomotive cab.   l was dissapointed but now realize that they did not want me to be a filthy mess on arrival at camp, which certainly would have curtailed further trips on their train.

Three trips ran this way.  On the fourth, the combine was in Billerica (B&M's main shops) for repairs, and the mail went by truck.  I had to convince them I would not mind riding the fold-down bench seat in the red B&M wood baggage car that was the substitite, and in the end they let me ride.

The big puzzle is that all histories say that that the loco was an ex-B&M mogul, No, 1.  But my memory is that is was a ten wheeler, with a big "2" in the center of the smokebox.   And I remember a Baldwin builders  plate.   Possible the mogul was in the shop that summer and another Pinsley-operated short-line locomotive was substituting?

I got to see the Suncook Valley one more time the Spring of 1950, when Freshman classmate David Berkowitz and I rode our bikes from Concord and back around Lake Winnapasauki, and I had a chance to see the GE 44-ton diesel replacement and the same combine that I rode at the Pittsfield station.  We rode B&M behind steam between Boston and Concord.

Our return from camp was via what became the Concord and Clairmont, with 4 ex Pennsy P-54's lacking all three outside doors to the vestibules behind  a mogul to Clairmont Junction, and non-ac NH coaches on the Day White Mountans Express directly to GCT.  I was goggle-eyed to see two interurban combines of Springfield Terminal meet us at Springfield Jc., and first sight of the coffeen-feedwater-heater (beetlebrowed) B&M Berkshire at Northhampton, heading an endless stream of reefers.

[Deggesty]

Dave, that was a wonderful experience--and you were allowed to make that change in the planned itinerary!

[daveklepper]

The only adult at 13-1/2 years old from whom i asked permission was the bus driver, always the same person.  I did not speak about it with anyone at the camp until telling my bunkmates about it after the 5th Concord trip.  I knew when to keep my  mouth shut!   The arrangements my parents had made were with the camp, and the camp made the arrangements with the bus dirver.   One of my bunkmates was a fellow railfan, Tommy Lowenthal, who also did some streetcar riding with me in NY.   For various reasons I went to a different camp the next summer, located near Port Jervis, and rode Erie Stillwells behind a Pacific to and and from, beginning and ending with the ferry boat ride..  But back home, with my parents, they said that they approved of my initiative.

This was also VJ-Day Summer.   End of WWII.   

[KCSfan]

daveklepper

When did the B&M run to Center Barnstead?   I know they had a line from Rochester to Alton Bay, but I did not know it ran southwest to Center Barnstead?  I rode Suncook Valley the summer of 1945, four times, and the Pitttsfield - Center Barnstead line had been abandoned.

The big puzzle is that all histories say that that the loco was an ex-B&M mogul, No, 1.  But my memory is that is was a ten wheeler, with a big "2" in the center of the smokebox.   And I remember a Baldwin builders  plate.   Possible the mogul was in the shop that summer and another Pinsley-operated short-line locomotive was substituting?

Dave, I was in error about a B&M/Suncook Valley connection at Center Barnstead; it was at Concord. I didn't know that the SV had any locomotives other than Mogul No. 1 at that time. I know that a B&M engine often substituted for No. 1 when the latter was down for repairs but if the engine you remember was actually No. 2 it is highly unlikely that it was a B&M locomotive.

Mark 

[rfpjohn]

Thank you, Daveklepper, for sharing your enviable experiences. So much cool stuff disappeared before my time and personal remembrances help fill in the blanks. Though my railfanning didn't start until well into the '60s, my experiences with a far more relaxed and trusting culture mirrors yours. How much we have lost!

I am intrigued by your Suncoook Valley trips. I did a little reading up on their #1. It was actually a fairly new loco, Baldwin 1927, of a standard design for light service. A neat looking little hog! I'm guessing the SV was able to get her at a bargain basement price as the economy tightened up in the late '20s. #2 is indeed a fascinating mystery. The road number certainly doesn't sound like anything from any closeby class one carriers. Perhaps leased from a local industry? I've read that Stratton & Company in Pennacock had a former Woodstock Railway 4-4-0 #3 for switching until 1951. Surely other mills had similar arrangements. Hopefully some local historian will be able to clear this up.

Thanks again. Looking forward to your next installment.

John  

[NorthWest]

daveklepper

I enjoyed the ride over the Brooklyn Bridge   on tracks that had been used by elevated trains until 1942, when the Myrtle and Lexington elevated trains were  cut back to Bridge and Jay Streets, and the Brooklyn Bridge streetcars shifted from the roadways to the PRW in center.

Didn't know this. Thanks, I'm looking forward to the next installment.

[daveklepper]

I should have mentioned that the Concord and Clairmont line was particularly scenic, included two railroad classic New England wood covered bridges, and some lakeside trackage.  The Connecticut River Line was also scenic, and still can be enjoyed from Amtrak's Vermonter, but without interurban cars meeting the train at Springfield Junction.  I got another chance to ride what became the Concord and Clairmont.  I rregret I never did ride that short interurban line.  I think most of the track still exists for freight, as part of PanAm-Guilford.  I think one of the interurban combines is at Seashore.

In the Spring of 1950, the Boston NRHS and Railroad Enthusiasts ran a "Round the Mountain" fan trip, and I bought a ticket.   This was a few years before I got my B&M engine pass.  We had about 14 wood open-platform coaches, and an ex-DL&W Pacific from North Station to Concord, then two Moguls, the lead uncoupled on running light across each of the bridges, from Concord to Clairmont Junction and around the wye to head north and then a Pacific again from White River Junction to Boston.   My picture is in the photo book "Railroads of Concord" showing the ex-DL&W Pacific at Concord, I being the youngster with the light jacket at the off to the side of the locomotive.   A really well-run fantrip that I will always remember.  The Suncook Valley mogul and combine and the 1st and 2nd diesels are in that book, also.

Further thought says that the Suncook Valley combine had five walkovers on one side and six on the other, for a total seated capacity of 22, with a dry-hopper "john" in a corner, which corner is a good question.   There probably was a drink-water tank and a sink and a paper -cup dispenser without cups.

[rcdrye]

daveklepper

 I got another chance to ride what became the Concord and Clairmont.  I rregret I never did ride that short interurban line.  I think most of the track still exists for freight, as part of PanAm-Guilford.  I think one of the interurban combines is at Seashore.

A little bit of the Claremont and Concord is still in operationas the Claremont-Concord RR from Claremont Jct to downtown Claremont.  The company also operates the former B&M trackage in West Lebanon (Westboro) NH, about 25 miles north.  A 44-tonner still serves Claremont.

A stub of the Springfield Terminal serves a lumber distributer in North Charlestown NH, a couple of miles north of where Dave saw the ST's steel combines.  ST combines 16 (steel) and 10 (wood) are at the Connecticut Electric Railway Assoc.'s museum in Warehouse Point CT.  16 runs, 10 is on static display.

Springfield Terminal ended passenger service in 1947, and dieselized in 1956.  Bits of the trackage were abandoned but most of the freight line from North Charlestown to Springfield was in use until 1986.  The ROW is now a paved trail.  The ST's 7 span toll bridge over the Connecticut River was bought by the state of NH in 2001, with the 15 cent toll removed shortly after.  The ST's track was in the westbound lane on the bridge.  Almost 60 years after the wires came down the wire hangers are still there on a few of the spans.  There is also a spur buried in the pavement on VT rt. 11 in North Springfield.

[henry6]

The C&C is a fantastic drive across NH yet today...from Claremont drive along the Sugar RIver and the bike and hike trail for two restored covered bridges...see several station buildings along the way including Newport (day care center) and Contoocook (museum, covered bridge, B&M wd even driving on the old ROW, too, via Rt 103 Newport to Contoocook, too!ooden coach. Sightings, trails an