There are all coach streamliners that operated railroad owned observation parlor cars on them among them the Hiawathas, Twin Cities Zephyrs, and The 400. I remember that the Pennsylvania Railroad's Trailblazer operated an tear drop observation car on the train when I rode it as a very young child. My mother, myself and my younger sister did sit in this car from Ft Wayne to Chicago holding only coach tickets. Was the conductor being kind to a young mother traveling with small children; or could coach passengers really ride in the observation car on the Trailblazer? I have not found any parlor car fares in any Pennsy timetables when it ran the Trailblazer.
Aricat, an observation car is not necessarily a parlor car. Back in those days, parlor cars had distinctive seats, many of which were reclining and were easily turned to face any direction. There were many all-coach trains which carried observation cars. To name a few, there were the Champion, the Silver Meteor, the Trailblazer, the City of Miami, the South Wind, the Dixie Flagler, and the Southerner. Some of these in later years did carry sleepers, and so were no longer all-coach trains.
However, if a railroad showed that it had a parlor car in the consist of a train, the train was then not an all-coach train, for it carried at least one car that required a first-class rail ticket, as well as a ticket for a parlor seat.
Johnny
Above post is correct. Your title is an oxymoran, a train with one or parlor cars is no longer an all-coach train.
For a considerable period, the Laurentian carried the ex-Empire State Express observation cars on the rear end, and the seats there were sold as parlor seats. The same thinking appliedd to the last days of the SP's Coast Daylight, where the obs was the parlor. The Trailblazer was truly an all-coach train, the compansion to the all-Pullman Broadway, and the observation car was thus open for coach passengers.
When it was discontinued, its coaches were added to the General, which had been all-Pullman. The obs was not continued, and the Broadway was then the only E-W PRR train with an obs.
Hi Aricat,
Concurring with the above posts I will be more specific to the PRR. In all probability with your tickets your mother was given a brochure from the railroad stating the ammenities of the Trailblazer. I have a copy of this brochure and it states you were free to leave your seat and roam to either the Lounge Car at the front of the train or the Observation Car at the rear, to relax and enjoy the scenery.
Right. A lounge car like Phoebe Snow on the DL&W was an observation car, too, so all ticket holders could use it. I believe I had the same experience on the B&O's Royal Blue. Parlor cars..I think sometimes called "Chair" cars... usually had single stuffed or upholstered or wicker chairs rather than full back swivel or flip over seats, maybe even one and one plus small tables aside or between, rather than normal coach configuration. They also probably had an "attendant" to serve drinks, etc., thus another reason for the extra fare. The LIRR continued this real Parlor Car service on its Cannonball well into the 70's but today only adds an attendant and drink service on Fridays and Sundays. Many railroads had all Pullman trains as well as all Parlor Car and all coach trains. As jet planes took over business and other long distance travel, trains merged the train make ups for financial reasons; even some club or lounge cars once restricted to Pullman or sleeping car tickets were open to coach riders, too.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Chair car is a tricky classification. Santa Fe used it to describe its reclining seat coaches, and several other roads did the same thing. Parlor cars were sometimes referred to by the public as "club cars", and I believe that CN in the 1960's and later referred to its parlor cars by that term.
CSSHEGEWISCH Chair car is a tricky classification. Santa Fe used it to describe its reclining seat coaches, and several other roads did the same thing. Parlor cars were sometimes referred to by the public as "club cars", and I believe that CN in the 1960's and later referred to its parlor cars by that term.
Oh yeah. As I alway point out each railroad, each region, each era was often different than the others.
The PRR Trail Blazer was an all coach train and all of its cars were open to coach passengers. The observation cars had a small kitchen and dining area, along with lounge seats. The car was equipped with luggage racks above its lounge seats, and it was common for coach passengers to occupy these seats in lieu of a regular coach seat, especially during the war
If I remember correctly, the luggage racks were not part of the original design but were added shortly after WWII began.
Dave, I do not recall seeing a notice in the PRR representation in the Guides from the WWII period, but the ACL declared that all seats, even those in the lounge cars of its reserved seat trains were revenue seats--and the PRR may have had the same policy, so luggage racks were added for the benefit of the passengers using those seats for transportation.
That is pretty much what I remember in practice on the PRR, but only during WWII. Occasionally, on both the PRR and NYC, 1st class passengers were even accomodated on the Broadway and Century overnight as parlor car passengers in the lounge car, when a need to travel was demonstrated and all sleeping acommodations sold out. But I do not remember any luggage racks being added to those lounge cars!
The Broadway Ltd quietly carried local passengers from Harrisburg, Lancaster and Paoli to New York in its final years.
Not Paoli or Lancaster officially. I know because I used it frequently between NY and Lancaster when workiing on the restoration of Lancaster's Fulton Opera House. I had to buy a ticket to and.or from Harrisburg. But with such a ticket, I had no problem leaving and boarding at Lancaster, and most of hte crew got to expect this. This was true even when it took over the General's numbers and had coaches, and remained true in the Amtrak era. But you are correct that the local passengers were ticketed as parlor car passengers and were seated in the lounge car during the last years of the all-PULLMAN era. In fact, this may have been a continous practice from WWII on. My last ride on the Broadway was four days before it was disccontiniued, and it was on a Harrisburg - NY coach ticket, boarding at Lancaster. But the conductor told me some friends were in two double-bedrooms ensuite returning from some Chicago railfanning and Ii was welcome to join them!
My Dad was Brakeman and sometimes Conductor on 28 and 29 and lifted cash fares and I think did the same on 48. (he earned alot of loose change tips that went in the piggy bank at home each day) If it was an odd day in April 71 that you traveled then it was likely my Dad that lifted the ticket on that trip (his last pre Amtrak trip was 48 and 31 on 29 April 71.)
If your dad was a railfan as well as a railroader, then it must have been him. Allowing coach passengers to ride in first class was very very unusual.
Dave: My Dad was not a railfan but by and large enjoyed railroading and could be farily tolerant of a lot. He was intolerant of really intense foamers or folks that could cite statistics but had no clue about railroading. I usually heard about railfans at the end of the day. He introduced me to a lot about passenger railroading.
What I remember most of the last week before Amtrak was that people had stolen a whole bunch of silverware and china from the Diner on 48 and 31 and a lot of sad faces that so much was coming to an end. PC was on the ropes but there were still nights that 31 left Penn Station NY and the sheets were crisp in the sleeper, the food tasty in the diner and in the end the experience was at least a hint of what better days had been.
You are correct that PC did keep up very good service on the Broadway right to the end and takeover by Amtrak, and actually the Broadway did not suffer as much as some of the Amtrak services (the Chicago - Florida train being one terrible example) even to the end of service as an Amtrak train. I was on the Broadway the third Amtrak night from Chiago to New York, having come to Elgin in a roometter on the very last UP-Milwaukee City of Los Angeles, overnight at friend;s home in Elgin, and then slumbercoach on the Broadway, with an interline UP-Amtrak ticket. I had to buy the slumbercoach upgrade a Union Station.
Other PC trains were pretty awful, but many had sunk earlier, particularly on the NYC, inlcuding Detroit - Chicago.
Parlor car passengers on a daytime train were first-class passengers, the equivalent of passengers who had Pullman sleeping car berths on an overnight train. They generally paid quite a bit more (roughly double) to be first-class passengers.
Railroads generally used the diner to separate coach passengers (to the front of the diner) and first-class passenger (to the rear of the diner). Some railroads allowed anyone to go back to the observation car, which often had some type of bar for drinks and snacks; some only allowed first-class passengers to go back there.
where can i get postwar couplers for my postwar tank cars.........
tenderbender where can i get postwar couplers for my postwar tank cars.........
Not on a Parlor car or a all coach train.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter