TRANSCONTINENTAL SLEEPERS

[NP Eddie]

ALL:

I know very little about the transcontinental sleepers, such as New York to San Francisco via the PRR and CBQ.

When did they start and when did they end?

What were the various routings and how were sleepers transferred between Chicago passenger stations?

I remember reading that this service did not last long as not many people used the car from, say New York to San Francisco. In addition, this Pullman car line tied up a sleeper for about two weeks, start to finish.

Any information is appreciated.

Ed Burns of Anoka, MN

[FlyingCrow]

Ed...that's a huge question for the forum.   I would suggest that you obtain the book, The Sleeping Car - A General Guide, by Ted Shrady.     This answers all your questions.  

[daveklepper]

There are also past threads that can answer your question.  

[timz]

1946 was the start of thru cars via Chicago-- there may have been an occasional transcon car via New Orleans or someplace before that. Last one ended around 1957, until the one via New Orleans started circa 1970.

[timz]

In summer 1946 PRR and NY Central each carried cars out of NY for all five routes west from Chicago: UP to Oakland, CB&Q/DRGW/WP to Oakland, UP to LA, Golden State to LA, SFe to LA.

Out of Washington, PRR had cars to Oakland via UP and to LA via Golden State; B&O had cars to Oakland via UP and to LA via SFe.

[Deggesty]

In the late forties, there was a service via the Crescent and the Sunset which involved a change in New Orleans--but the passengers' carry-on baggage was transferred to the same lettered or numbered space in the car at the other station. So, you could visit New Orleans and not have to worry about carrrying your baggage from one station to the other.

There was also through Washington-San Diego service via B&O-SF, and through NYC-San Diego service via (I believe) NYC, the Golden State, and the SD&AE.

[timz]

Deggesty

There was also through Washington-San Diego service via B&O-SF, and through NYC-San Diego service via (I believe) NYC, the Golden State, and the SD&AE.

When?

[Deggesty]

timz

Deggesty:

There was also through Washington-San Diego service via B&O-SF, and through NYC-San Diego service via (I believe) NYC, the Golden State, and the SD&AE.

When?

Timz, I am sorry that I have not been able to answer your question, but I have been involved in preparing for a trip. As soon as I can, I will look the matter up in such Guides as  I have from the late forties. Thinking more about New York-San Diego, I may have been conflating Chicago- San Diego through service, which was via the Imperial, and not the Golden State (the Imperial connected with the SD&AE in the Imperial Valley; the Golden State did not), with New York-Los Angeles service.

I have a memory of Washington-San Diego service in the early fifties, but I will check on that when I can.

[timz]

Don't waste too much time looking for them-- I can probably hunt for them as well as you can. I was just checking whether by chance you did have a date. Washington-San Diego sounds unlikely, but if it was anytime in the 1950s I probably have a SFe timetable that shows it.

(Yes, a New York sleeper thru Carriso Gorge sounds unlikely too. After WWII, anyway.)

[timz]

You were right about Washington-San Diego-- the B&O-SFe car was extended to San Diego in 1950-51. A 6-6-4 then a 10-6, with a three-hour wait in LA.

[Railfan Rick]

Ed,

 

We have been discussing this among a group of friends.  The transfers in Chicago, per Bill Howes, Director of Passenger Services for the Chessie in the 1960's, were done by the railroad bringing the passengers to Chicago.

The transfer runs also moved storage mail cars, express cars, and Railway Express equipment.

Some of the transfers are obvious:

PRR to CNW from Union Station - go west on the CB&Q and others to Western Avenue, then north to the CNW Coach Yards, where the cars were put in the westbound train.

Others, like La Salle Street Sta. to CNW was more complicated.

Our private thread indicates that it was STRONGLY encouraged to tour Chicago and leave your luggage with the porter on the through car.  We do not think heat or airconditioning was offered during the transfer move.

Another comment, in 1954, the westbound New York to San Francisco via the CNW UP SP from the NYC went westbound via Detroit and Kalamazoo and eastbound via Cleveland.

I also understand that there were many "local sales" like Detroit to Omaha or Syracuse to Reno rather than New York to San Francisco.

Rick Burn

Holland, MI

[e-mail]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

Interesting  ---- thanks

[rcdrye]

The Chicago transfers were quite intricate.  All of the routes shown were also used for transferring mail and express cars, and shuffling around Pullman cars between assignments, so the end of transcon service didn't end the transfers. Here are some paths:

PRR to C&NW(UP/SP):  East side Union station through tracks to Panhandle via Western Ave. to C&NW California Ave coach yard. 

PRR to MILW (after 1955): East side Union station through tracks to Western Ave.

PRR to AT&SF:  South through 21st st, reverse east to AT&SF Archer Ave yard

PRR to CB&Q: same station, same side. 

NYC to C&NW:  St Charles Air Line west from 16th St. to C&NW Rockwell sub, north to California Ave.  Alternate route via Union Tower and east side Union Station bypass tracks.  The westbound cars off the Wolverine were on the only MC train using LaSalle at the time.  If other MC trains had been involved, the route would add the IC Iowa line from Central to 16th St.

NYC to MILW: Air line, Union tower, Union Station route to Western Ave.

NYC to AT&SF: This is a little complicated by the track arrangment at 16th St.  Either SCAL to Union tower, back around Union Station Wye to 21st St, then Archer Ave, or wye/backup move onto SCAL, back through 16th St. onto IC Iowa Line, then to AT&SF Archer Ave.

NYC to CB&Q: SCAL, Union tower

B&O to AT&SF: Grand Central over B&OCT bridge, back up on SCAL to 16th St. IC Iowa Line to AT&SF Archer Ave.

I don't recall the B&O doing anything with the UP, but that would probably have gone B&OCT west to C&NW Rockwell sub.  If it ever existed it was gone pre-MILW "City" trains.

B&OCT used boiler RS1s, AT&SF used boiler RS1s and H1244TSs, NYC used RS1s, RS2s, And BLH 1200 HP switchers(later reengined by EMD).  C&NW and MILW used boiler RS2/3s (some of C&NWs were "Hammerhead").  PRR used SW1s in good weather, boiler GP7's when heat was needed.  All of the transfers were long enough to risk freezing a car up in Chicago winters.

Mail/Express and Pullman transfers to other Dearborn users used the same paths as AT&SF, but often ended or began at C&WI's 47th St coach yard, using C&WI RS1s.

[rlh97]

In case you missed it, there is a photograph of a transcon sleeper on page 36 of the Summer 2012 issue - the PRR sleeper is about to disappear behind the rocks.