Hi, all
Newbie to the boards, and newbie to train travel in 1925. I've tried to research this myself, but while I can find lots of information from the 1930s onward, I can't find what I'm looking for for 1925.
I'm reading a mystery book, in which a character travels from Boston to Chicago, and then from Chicago to San Francisco (getting off in Oakland and taking a ferry across to San Fran) and I'm trying to find out which trains they would have been. Also of course the railroad company that operated them.
(And, is the book factually correct? Did trains let people off in Oakland and necessitate them taking a ferry to San Fran?)
Also, would the train have had Pullman cars (which are cars with individual cabins for sleepers, correct?) or would sleepers have had to go out into a corridor for their berth? (Or am I getting that confused with 1945 air travel?)
If anyone could help me out it would be very much appreciated.
Welcome to the forum!
Somebody with a 1925 vintage Official Guide would be able to give an authoritative answer as to which trains would have been ridden. In the 1930's, The UP, SP and C&NW were jointly running the City of San Francisco from Chicago to Oakland...
The book is correct in that trains coming from the Overland Route usually terminated in Oakland and that the final leg of the trip would involve a ferry ride. The Bay Bridge was completed in the mid-1930's and electric rail service (Key System, Sacramento Northern and SP's Interurban Electric) started in 1939. Long distance trains terminating in San Francisco would be limited to those traveling to/through southern California, e.g. the Daylight and Sunset Limited.
- Erik
Riders could buy a Pullman room, or (for less money) a berth with curtains opening to the corridor.
As you would imagine, the direct route Boston to Chicago was via Albany and Buffalo, and perhaps that railroad had a thru train-- but they also would have other trains that ran just to Albany and were broken up and some of their Pullmans added to NY-Chicago trains. So the traveler would have several possible times he could leave Boston.
West from Chicago, the standard schedule was 68 hours to the West Coast-- Los Angeles or San Francisco, and maybe Seattle too. (Or Seattle may have been 72 hours.)
No passenger train was ever scheduled all the way from Chicago to San Francisco.
The City of SF started in 1936.
Please...the name of the book! I collect railroad fiction and would love to know if I have it in my collection or if I have to go searching for it!!!!
From Boston to Chicago the automatic route thought is Boston and Albany/New York Central. Second would be New Haven/PRR (Hell Gate bridge date please someone?) or Boston and Maine/New York Central. Will try to check my 1927 Guide sometime this weekend for other ideas and the western route. It all sounds plausable. But I would love to know the book's title.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Hi,
Well, I don't know that this book count as "railroad" fiction, as only a couple of pages are devoted to the character's journey by railroad.
It's The House Without A Key, by Earl Derr Biggers, 1925, the first few pages of chapter 2.
Another book by Earl Derr Biggers, which has a few more pages devoted to train travel, a whole chapter, is The Keeper of the Keys,
And again, if a chapter counts as railroad fiction, there's a mystery novel called Cold Steal that you might be interested in. By Phoebe Atwood Taylor (writing as Alice Tilton) published in 1939. The first chapter takes place on a train.
I suppose I don't need to tell you about Murder on the Orient Express or Mystery of the Blue Train, by Agatha Christie!
Anyway, thanks for your help. MUCH APPRECIATED!
henry6Hell Gate bridge date please someone?
Henry, a direct quote from the Wikipedia article:
The bridge was completed on September 30, 1916.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
From my July 1927 Official Guide I find many possiblities Boston-Chicago-San Francisco. B&M shows #59 to Troy for an NYC connection to Chi. Boston and Albany has no listings but the NYC's schedule pages show the B&A connections at Albany. NH can give you a GCT/NYC connection or a Penn Sta. PRR connection, both on several trains but with no through services indicated. Likewise, west from Chicago there are several offers from UP, RI, SP, SF,CB&Q, even the northern routes NP and GN; Combinaitons needed included CNW, DRG from Denver and Pueblo (remember,no Moffat Tunnel yet), and WP. SP showed PRR and B&O connnection via Washington DC and New Orleans and Los Angeles!
So the answer is that the story depcicts the available possiblities. Unless specific trains, railroads, or even cities are mentioned, it is difficult to say what is the depicted route. All that can be said that it could be accurate as far as it goes.
In 1925 the Overland Ltd left Chicago at 2010 and ran to SF in 68 hours including the ferry; the Pacific Ltd left Chicago at 1045 (on CMStP&P, so Union Station instead of CNW) and took about 72 hours to SF. All other possibilities would be hours longer, likely would include a change of cars, and wouldn't be any cheaper.
Boston to Chicago you could go via Detroit or Cleveland; looks like no other route offers any advantage, unless you're a railfan and want to see different scenery. No thru trains/cars via NY/Pittsburgh.
I assume travelers back then would prefer not to try to make 1-hour connections in Chicago that included a change of stations-- you'd think they'd like 90 minutes anyway. But as it happens the only choice they had was between uncomfortably close connections and ~6-hour layovers. The 20th Century Ltd (which carried thru sleepers from Boston) arrived Chicago 0945 at a station ~6 blocks from Union Station; want to try that?
Thanks so much for all your help! You've all been very kind and helpful!
Much appreciated!
Having said that, I've got another question.
I know that in 1906, a railroad started the slogan See America First to try to get tourists to travel around America instead of going to Europe for their culture.
I'm wondering if any railroad - or other travel-related business - ever used the slogan, "See the wide open spaces of the west where men are men" or something similar. Again, it's from this 1925 book I'm reading, and I'm assuming/hoping the author is paraphrasing an actual advertisment from some railroad...
Responding to your first question, definitely the New York Central's Boston section of the 20th Century Limited. At the time, this train had truly a guaranteed on-time arrival in Chicago, and a report on that fact was on the NYC's President's desk every morning. So the connection to the Overland LImited was pretty much a sure bet. If he was traveling alone, he probably would have used a lower birth Pullman on both trains, and he could have used the men's room to change into and out of pajamas or mauverd betwwen the bed and the aisle, a technique also necessary in most roomettes. If he extra money, he may have bought the whole section, eliminating a share of the facing seats with an occupant of the upper berth, but he could have bought an upper birth to save money. He would not have noticed much difference in the Pullman cars between the two trains, but the dining cars were more distinctive. Both trains had observations-lounge cars at the rear. At times of heavy travel, the Boston section ran as a separate train all the way to Chicago, but was never more than five or ten minutes behind the scheduled arrival time, anyway. At other times, the cars were added at Albany station (elevated station at downtown Albanay, not the existing Rensselaer Station). But in any case there was dining and lounge service Boston - Albany.
daveklepperSo the connection to the Overland Limited was pretty much a sure bet.
The Century would cost more-- would that matter to the character?
>>The Century would cost more-- would that matter to the character?
No, cost wouldn't have been an issue.
Thanks!
True, he would spend less time in Chicago with some other combination, but would the overall time be any different? These were the two fastest trains on their respective portions of the trip. The Exposition Flyer had not yet been inaugurated. Did the Sante Fe have a fast |Chicago - SF train at the time? Wait, for minimum time, the Pacific Limited would be a sure bet, leaving from Union Station on the Milwaukee, and the connection should be possible by using a taxi between stations. Any checked baggage would not make it, and that would probably require the Overland if he wanted the checked baggage to stay with him.
Dated Death It's The House Without A Key, by Earl Derr Biggers, 1925, the first few pages of chapter 2.
The text is published online in Australia at this link.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200671.txt
Evidently there were no fast trains west of Boston, judging from the first paragraph of Chapter 2:
John Quincy Winterslip walked aboard the ferry at Oakland feeling rather limp and weary. For more than six days he had been marooned on sleepers--his pause at Chicago had been but a flitting from one train to another--and he was fed up. Seeing America first--that was what he had been doing. And what an appalling lot of it there was! He felt that for an eternity he had been staring at endless plains, dotted here and there by unesthetic houses the inmates of which had unquestionably never heard a symphony concert.
Now here's an excerpt from Chapter 9:
John Quincy had not delayed for a hat, and the sun was beating down fiercely on his brown head. Charlie Chan glanced at him.
"Humbly begging pardon," he remarked, "would say it is unadvisable to venture forth without headgear. Especially since you are a malihini."
"A what?"
"The term carries no offense. Malihini--stranger, newcomer."
"Oh." John Quincy looked at him curiously. "Are you a malihini?"
"Not in the least," grinned Chan. "I am kamaaina--old-timer. Pursuing the truth further, I have been twenty-five years in the Islands."
Cholley Chan! I musta seen da movie! Er, on TV in the 50's that is.
I actually have a related question: my grandparents ran off to get married in 1925 and took a train from Boston to Chicago to do it. I believe they treated the train trip as the beginning of their married life (though it preceded the wedding by a year) so a few questions....
1) if friends got together and paid for their trip as a wedding present and wanted them to have privacy and something special, would the 20th Century Limited have been the train they would have sent them on?
2) Did it go all the way from Boston to Chicago without any change of train? Which stations in Boston and Chicago?
3) What time of day did it leave Boston and arrive in Chicago?
4) And if these not very well-off friends paid for the tickets and wanted to insure my grandparents would have the privacy a (sort of) newlywed couple might want, what would the accommodations have been called? And what would they have looked like?
5) Finally, could those friends have paid for all the meals in advance? Or was that impossible as each meal would have t be paid for individually?
mkghost I actually have a related question: my grandparents ran off to get married in 1925 and took a train from Boston to Chicago to do it. I believe they treated the train trip as the beginning of their married life (though it preceded the wedding by a year) so a few questions.... 1) if friends got together and paid for their trip as a wedding present and wanted them to have privacy and something special, would the 20th Century Limited have been the train they would have sent them on? Yes, the Century could well have been the train they rode. 2) Did it go all the way from Boston to Chicago without any change of train? Which stations in Boston and Chicago? Yes, the Century had through Boston-Chicago cars. 3) What time of day did it leave Boston and arrive in Chicago? In 1916, it left Boston at 12:30 in the afternoon, and arrived in Boston at 9:45 the next morning. I do not have any information for 1925, but there may have been a faster schedule by then. 4) And if these not very well-off friends paid for the tickets and wanted to insure my grandparents would have the privacy a (sort of) newlywed couple might want, what would the accommodations have been called? And what would they have looked like? The private accommodations then available were compartments and drawing rooms, both of which had their own toilet facilities; the drawing room had the toilet in an annex, and a wash basin in the room itself; the compartment had both in the room. Each had an upper and a lower berth, which differed little, if any, from the berths in an open section; the drawing room also had a sofa against the aisle wall which was made into a lower berth for sleeping. 5) Finally, could those friends have paid for all the meals in advance? Or was that impossible as each meal would have t be paid for individually? I have no information on this; it might have been possible for the meals to have been paid in advance.
Yes, the Century could well have been the train they rode.
Yes, the Century had through Boston-Chicago cars.
In 1916, it left Boston at 12:30 in the afternoon, and arrived in Boston at 9:45 the next morning. I do not have any information for 1925, but there may have been a faster schedule by then.
The private accommodations then available were compartments and drawing rooms, both of which had their own toilet facilities; the drawing room had the toilet in an annex, and a wash basin in the room itself; the compartment had both in the room. Each had an upper and a lower berth, which differed little, if any, from the berths in an open section; the drawing room also had a sofa against the aisle wall which was made into a lower berth for sleeping.
I have no information on this; it might have been possible for the meals to have been paid in advance.
Johnny
Six days seems awfully long. The Century was an overnight train - the character would have gotten on a Pullman car in Boston, and he would have stepped off the car the next morning in Chicago. I don't think it would have then taken four days to get to Oakland from Chicago.
Chances are he wouldn't have ridden the Century, as it was extra fare and all-Pullman (even the Boston section). Boston and Albany and New York Central had lots of slower, secondary trains for which a more than 24 hour passage from Boston to Chicago would have been likely. Changing trains in Chicago would consume up to another half day. Secondary trains on the Overland route could easily consume 60 hours or more from Chicago to San Francisco, so five or more days would be very believable.
Chicago stations: La Salle St. (New York Central) North Western (Chicago and North Western (UP/SP))
Many stations had lunch counters which were favored by impecunious travelers. Most dining cars ran on a cash basis, but then most of the rest of the economy did, too.
If his friends cared about him, considering the rigors of any transcon trip in those days, they would have provided the best available, which was probably the Century and the Overland Limited. They would have sought out the dining car steward at South Station and givn him the cash to cover the meal to Chicago. If the UP had an office in Boston, they might have been able to work out some special arrangement on the Overland Limited for meals paid in advance.
Parmelee vans would have handled the transfer between stations, with the ticket included in the through ticket and fare. Probably luggage would have gone in a separate van from the passengers, but would be delivered directly to the drawing room or compartment.
Thank you -- and everyone for all this helpful information!
An additional question about luggage on the 20th Century Limited. Would a porter have taken the luggage from the curb and then delivered it directly into the room? How would that work? I assume the room is specified on the ticket. Wouldn't the passenger need to accompany the porter carrying their luggage, if only to tip them and make sure it got placed in the right room?
Was there enough room for a couple and their luggage in the room with them? I assume it was stored overhead? Or?
Thank you for all of this helpful information.
Would people sit in the compartments, too? Or just go there to sleep and wash up? Was there some configuration that allowed for seats in them? Or would people sit in the observation car or elsewhere when they weren't dining or sleeping?
And, while it's unlikely anyone knows the answer to this: it looks like there weren't a lot of seats in the observation car, or as many seats as passengers. Do you think there was some jostling or competition to secure them? Or were these mostly used by the people waiting to dine or who had just dined? And were beverages served there?
and, finally, was smoking allowed anywhere in the train, not just the smoking car?
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter