Fuel stops in days of yore

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, May 28, 2020 3:50 PM

I remember on the Pennsy, they fueled & watered the diesels (steam generators) and the cars at Richmond IN on the St.Louis to NY trains. And they changed diesels at Pittsburg from a two or three unit set to a four unit for the trip to Harrisburg (which I assumed was for the grades in Pennsylvania)  when I rode between Cincy and Phily. Does anyone know how much water a typical old coach or pullman could hold vs a superliner? 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 28, 2020 5:39 PM

BaltACD
With the oversized tenders a full load of coal could go all the way - they did have to get additional water I believe.

All the way to what?

The largest NYC tenders built (~46t, I think) were only good for a little over halfway; there was still one coaling stop.  That was trading off cistern capacity for coal bunkerage; a typical Harmon to Chicago train would scoop or take water 11 times. PRR's 'coast to coast' tenders did not have the luxury of lots of easily-filled pans, or the large bunkers on the PTs, so range was nowhere near as stellar as publicity might try to claim.  (PRR didn't have NYC's high-speed scooping gear, either.)

Much of this of course was moot in the face of better water treatment and the desire to use nickel alloy steel in boilers -- neither of which is happily compatible with scooped or agitated water.  Note how long the era of care water treatment lasted in the East...

As noted, there was one engine that could have made the trip unrefueled - the C1a duplex with 64t and lower nominal water rate (hence needing your born less fuel over the distance).  PRR could have (and I think should have) gone to separable water cisterns or A-tanks on any of the larger classes, which would also help turning and jostling them... but they wisely avoided the whole rigmarole by going to EMD instead.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 28, 2020 5:45 PM

Convicted One
That  wouldn't be true in the configuration shown in Balt's picture, would it? It appears that set ups  such as that would be gravity fed?

We had some great long discussions about this picture when it appeared (I think on Shorpy at enormous resolution) including what was being pumped where.  It was my opinion that the tank cars were being pressurized, perhaps through the domes, for delivery pressure.  Stops were kept under 5 minutes (according to Stan Repp) so it is highly unlikely that lazy gravity feed with only about 5' of head and many feet of wandering hose would cut the mustard.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, May 30, 2020 3:40 PM

My experience is that in steam the Broadway and Trail Blazer regularly changed engines at Crestline, and that the Century and Pacemaker either refuiled or changed engines, one or the other, at Colingwood. just east of Cleveland.  So did the New England States. a heavyweigh in the steam era, with another engine change in Albany, for a lower-driver J2 B&A Hudson or a Mowkawk.  Some of this is not first-hand, but what I was told.

The Broadway and Trailblazer both regularly drew either a T=1 or double-headed K4s.  Not sure the Pacemaker lasted into the Niagra era, but double-heading was rare on the Central, either with Hudsons or Niagras.  Extra sections were more frequent.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, May 30, 2020 8:56 PM

The all-deluxe coach Pacemaker was running at least through 1956, diesel hauled. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, May 31, 2020 2:22 AM

I seem to recall once somewhere that refueling was done from both sides of the loco at the same time. Would that speed up refueling if each fill pipe connection went directly to fuel tank ?  If fuel pipes were connected together before going to tank that would not help unless joined fills from each side into a manifold pipe twice the area  of each side fill connection?  Anyone know how the fuel tank plumbing is set up ?  Can imagine it is different for different models and even different series of same model ?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 31, 2020 3:16 AM

Thanks, then the Pacemaker probably drew a Niagra before diesels took over.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 31, 2020 3:20 AM

And in the early diesel era, power ran through, Harmon - Chicago via both Cleveland - Toledo and Detroit, Boston - Chicago, Harrisburg - Chicago, even Harmon - St. Louis and Harrisburg - St. Louis.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 31, 2020 3:26 AM

I also recall the Empire State Express, Harmon - Buffalo Niagra, but Buffalo - Detroit and Buffalo - Cleveland, both Hudsons.  No fuel stops.  By that time, many if not most Hudsons, except the Boston and Albany J2s, had "Centapeed" tenders.

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Posted by TERRELL SHEARER on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:39 AM

This is at Memphis.

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Posted by Albuquerque Brooklynite on Wednesday, June 17, 2020 11:47 PM
Yes, Albuquerque. See the Depot with the reduced height cupola and the Tall Brewery in the far distance.

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