https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/commuterregional/alstom-coradia-ilint-passes-tests/
Once again, not only have they demonstrated the ability to 'make the trick work', they have concentrated on the infrastructure both to produce and distribute the carrier fuel (which has historically been the point of 'failure' for LH in this role).
Not only that, but it appears -- mentioned in passing, although it deserves a whole article with a title in capital letters for potential relative importance -- that they have developed a portable plant to produce the carrier hydrogen and then dispense it to the transit equipment. Whether that's even nominally cost-effective at current alternative-fuel price levels is dwarfed by the implicit technical achievement ... and the near-probability that it could be adapted to other hydrogen-fuel-cell-using vehicles of sufficient characteristics in a wide range of potential applications.
At this point, it's been used on fairly low-volume, single-track passenger lines that are consequently non-electrified.
An interesting point about the architecture, though, is that its designers were smart enough to base it on a straight electric design, and I believe it is possible to build it with electric parallel supply (from wires, or KERS wayside source, etc.) allowing it to run on cheaper energy where wires are 'subsidized' and then seamlessly transition to 140km/h peak speed outward from there -- all with carbon-neutral effectively-zero emissions in the service area.
From what I have seen of the fuel-cell plant, it should scale to heavier passenger equipment should that prove desirable. Up to now there has to be a combination of things to make the iLINT an optimal solution: need for 'zero emissions', lack of external traction power or battery charging supply, presence of a working and logistically thorough fuel supply chain and refueling points. Much of the constraint appears to be considerably reduced...
Well good for the Dutch. There is no end to the usefulness of the Dutch.
Overmod An interesting point about the architecture, though, is that its designers were smart enough to base it on a straight electric design, and I believe it is possible to build it with electric parallel supply (from wires, or KERS wayside source, etc.) allowing it to run on cheaper energy where wires are 'subsidized' and then seamlessly transition to 140km/h peak speed outward from there -- all with carbon-neutral effectively-zero emissions in the service area. From what I have seen of the fuel-cell plant, it should scale to heavier passenger equipment should that prove desirable. Up to now there has to be a combination of things to make the iLINT an optimal solution: need for 'zero emissions', lack of external traction power or battery charging supply, presence of a working and logistically thorough fuel supply chain and refueling points. Much of the constraint appears to be considerably reduced...
Yes, convertible if/when a line is electrified later.
Miningman Well good for the Dutch. There is no end to the usefulness of the Dutch.
And they've got a beautiful nation anthem, "Het Wilhelmus."
Almost moves me to tears even though I don't understand a word of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgT_-pgvhA
The equipment is German-French.
What is the energy efficiency rating of the fuel cell ? Then what is the energy efficiency rating of the hydrogen generation ?. If they say it is renewable then what fossile fuel electrical generation will be needed to other consumers instead of making the hydrogen ? Only if the electric system to make the hydrogen is on a closed electrical system with 100% renewable should we accept this as a viable system.
Flintlock76 Miningman Well good for the Dutch. There is no end to the usefulness of the Dutch. And they've got a beautiful nation anthem, "Het Wilhelmus." Almost moves me to tears even though I don't understand a word of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgT_-pgvhA
I wonder how many present remember Queen Wilhemina.
Also, would the residents of Mena, Arkansas (named for Queen Wilhemina) sing the anthem?
Johnny
charlie hebdoYes, convertible if/when a line is electrified later.
Not just convertible: full dual-mode. You'd seamlessly transition to fuel-cell generation at the end of the extending section(s) wires (or conduit or whatever), or to any islands developed (e.g. for spot grades) without any problem relating to 'dewirement' or weather; you'd be able to run during outages or periods of ice, too.
Well-to-wheel for carrier hydrogen will always be higher than most other technologies, but neither pure efficiency nor conventional cost-effectiveness are the design priority here.
I was thinking about the same or maybe different hydrogen fuel cell equipment running in southern Saxony, I think based in Chemnitz. Sorry for the confusion as I read about that several months ago.
No, you're right, the Lower Saxony service is the same iLINT and it does not, to my knowledge, have dual-mode set up.
What I'm saying is that, because it's a fuel-cell setup, with all the rest of the 'powertrain' being electric, the same economics of supplying a simple regulated voltage to the DC link of an AC-synthesized drive would apply here just as they do for locomotives using engine-alternators. Transversion and rectification/filtering for AC; might not even need DC-to-DC conversion for properly-chosen trolley supply HVDC. So the marginal cost to provide 'dual-mode' power should be slight on this sort of design...
From what I've seen about generating hydrogen and conversion efficiency of fuel cells, you get much better efficiency with litium ion batteries than with hydorgen fuel cells. What hydrogen does allow for is a relatively low cost way of storing electricity, so one could use surplus power to create hydroge from the electrolysis of water and then transfer the hydrogen when needed.
Deggesty- Yes of course I remember Queen Wilhelmina but not as Queen, after she abdicated and was a Princess again. My mom and grandmother were Dutch, emigrated to Canada after the war. My moms father, my grandfather Johann, died in 1943 in a concentration camp.
I heard lots of tales and stories about Queen Wilhelmina and my mom was a big fan of Queen Juliana.
There was a large Dutch community in Burlington where I lived growing up, and at times a whole slew of them would be at the house for a BBQ or a get together. They all liked to talk and yak endlessly and when 6 conversations were all going on at once it was hilarious... to me Dutch sounds like Smurf talk.
They all lost someone in the war and were so happy to be in Canada.
I love salt licorice, and salt herring, grew up with that stuff. Not many folk like salt licorice but all other licorice tastes empty and bland compared.
Hybrid train using lithium ion batteries. https://www.railjournal.com/in_depth/ecotrain-explores-new-routes-to-sustainable-traction/
Overmod No, you're right, the Lower Saxony service is the same iLINT and it does not, to my knowledge, have dual-mode set up. What I'm saying is that, because it's a fuel-cell setup, with all the rest of the 'powertrain' being electric, the same economics of supplying a simple regulated voltage to the DC link of an AC-synthesized drive would apply here just as they do for locomotives using engine-alternators. Transversion and rectification/filtering for AC; might not even need DC-to-DC conversion for properly-chosen trolley supply HVDC. So the marginal cost to provide 'dual-mode' power should be slight on this sort of design...
The Siemens x-emu. In this there is a link to the Aachen Uni research.
https://www.isea.rwth-aachen.de/go/id/qate?lidx=1&mobile=1
charlie hebdoThe Siemens x-emu. In this there is a link to the Aachen Uni research. https://www.isea.rwth-aachen.de/go/id/qate?lidx=1&mobile=1
Help! I can't find any actual research comments or links to papers there. Where do I go to get them (other than e-mail a researcher and await any sort of response?)
Perhaps I should clarify that the iLINT, as built, is not 'powered' from the fuel cell. It is a battery train, with the cell operating to recharge that battery; at least some of the practical problems with storing sufficient mass of hydrogen for continued operation is explained by the idea that some, perhaps most, of the actual operating power is supplied via 'plug-in' battery precharge and by various forms of energy recovery (such as preference dynamic braking) also recharging the traction battery.
I don't know if an adapted GE hybrid-locomotive design with a larger traction battery could be made with a bank of fuel cells and perhaps a reformer of some kind as a 'low carbon' conversion or variant. Presumably, though, the 'packaged' supply systems would be of interest to some air-quality management districts in California, and there are certainly niche applications (particularly in switching and transfer, as were handled by genset engines) where the moral equivalent of one of the '30s tri-power locomotives would be suitable.
Sorry just overviews. Click ongoing and finished projects for summaries. Those that interest you might be worth inquiries.
blue streak 1 What is the energy efficiency rating of the fuel cell ? Then what is the energy efficiency rating of the hydrogen generation ?. If they say it is renewable then what fossile fuel electrical generation will be needed to other consumers instead of making the hydrogen ? Only if the electric system to make the hydrogen is on a closed electrical system with 100% renewable should we accept this as a viable system.
Your isolation scenario would change nothing for the rail system, but would deny the general consumer of excess renewable generation capacity when not needed by rail.
MidlandMike blue streak 1 What is the energy efficiency rating of the fuel cell? Then what is the energy efficiency rating of the hydrogen generation?. If they say it is renewable then what fossil-fuel electrical generation will be needed to other consumers instead of making the hydrogen? Only if the electric system to make the hydrogen is on a closed electrical system with 100% renewable should we accept this as a viable system. Your isolation scenario would change nothing for the rail system, but would deny the general consumer of excess renewable generation capacity when not needed by rail.
blue streak 1 What is the energy efficiency rating of the fuel cell? Then what is the energy efficiency rating of the hydrogen generation?. If they say it is renewable then what fossil-fuel electrical generation will be needed to other consumers instead of making the hydrogen? Only if the electric system to make the hydrogen is on a closed electrical system with 100% renewable should we accept this as a viable system.
What is the energy efficiency rating of the fuel cell? Then what is the energy efficiency rating of the hydrogen generation?. If they say it is renewable then what fossil-fuel electrical generation will be needed to other consumers instead of making the hydrogen? Only if the electric system to make the hydrogen is on a closed electrical system with 100% renewable should we accept this as a viable system.
Much of this hinges on the detail design ... and the political 'incentives' provided for operation ... of the very specific hydrogen-provision infrastructure that is an integral part of an iLINT operation. This is even more particularly true of the 'portable' apparatus mentioned in the Holland story.
This very well may be some relation of the Formula E 'carbon-neutral' charging equipment that uses Cummins engines fueled on, of all things, glycerin or some very similar chemical analog. The pure well-to-wheel 'economics' of hydrogen as a "fuel" are well-recognized, even in reasonably complete studies like the one from Imperial College, London, as ridiculously expensive if only 'carbon-neutrality' is the criterion; it's only when you get to strict carbon avoidance (or maximum reductions) that things like ammonia fuel or the iLINT asynchronous recharge, or the BMW later work on fuel cells for the parasite loads on an otherwise-nonhydrogen-IC/hybrid-traction-powered automobile make full 'socioeconomic' sense.
When I was tinkering with carrier hydrogen about 35 years ago, the basic 'operating premise' was that the actual economically-justifiable hydrogen production would involve high-temperature processes derived from a HTGR, with comparatively little inefficient 'electrolysis' from off-peak generation capacity from the nuclear source. It is interesting (and more than a little sad) that even though the ICL study does get around to mentioning nuclear as a potential source, it presumes this would be only an electrolysis source ... and perhaps net of all capital and operating costs, including security, that would be as true for fuels as it has been in France for nuclear-powered trains.
Most of the references to the long-term importance of the X-EMU and iLINT do make note of strict carbon elimination as a social -- and explicitly not economic -- priority. They are wise enough to understand that a considerable amount of current 'renewable' sourcing (certainly 100% of the effective solar high-voltage AC generation as distinct from transversion from storage) will simply not be present as an 'off-peak baseline resource' as, for example, coal-fired generation with comparatively restricted turndown is.
These units are only used to reduce the carbon footprint on lines where electrification is too costly for now. Shall we more appropriately use the term environmental value or benefit rather than social benefit?
charlie hebdoShall we more appropriately use the term environmental value or benefit rather than social benefit?
Personally, I think both those terms are appropriate in the political 'societies' in which iLINT trains will be established and run. In many European cultures, the idea not only of carbon-caused AGW but the actual need for carbon reduction and perhaps even active abatement has become almost a priority. This makes full 'carbon free' cycle something that societies will actively support, presumably both with their votes and a share of their taxed income, to a greater extent than something "merely" carbon-neutral ... or that still represents a higher carbon percentage, renewable or otherwise, than a renewables/biosourced hydrogen-carrier infrastructure involves.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.