Not sure where the wacky paranoia about airlines comes from ... or some of the cracked-up numbers in the quoted story. County Attorney Reingold thinks the whole appeal cost (assuming the Court grants cert here) is something like $400K ... and there's more than that left 'in an account dedicated to the legal battle' (which is over whether the tax-exemption of $1.75 billion in private activity bonds associated with the Brightline project is legal)
Now, if you want potentially-justifiable paranoia, consider the idea that the Indian River County people are anticipating a conservative 'turn' on the Court (see the stories about Ruth Bader Ginzburg's health lately) which will somehow tilt the decision in their favor. Not having read the controversy (or either the DC Circuit's decision or the appeal brief, I'm not even going to comment.
I think it's far more likely that any 'private money' would be associated with the relatively high-profile status of All Those People Dead From Brightline. (Up to 40 the last time I looked, which would be concerning even for New Jersey Transit!) See this lovely piece of journalism, for instance. (There is a better editorial on the RT&S site here.)
"Lovely piece of journalism" indeed. Sob-sisterism at it's best.
I hate to sound cruel and heartless, but it's been said countless times on this Forum before. You can't save some people from themselves. You can try, but as the saying goes "You can't put in what God left out," especially common sense. Suicides? You can and should advertise and post places where those who need help can get help, but if someone thinks he or she would be better off out of this world than in it, and won't look for help, then they'll accomplish the deed one way or another. If they can't walk in front of a train than they might just walk in front of your car. Would it be fair to call you a killer if that happened?
Trains don't "kill" anyone. Trains are mindless pieces of machinery with no sense of right or wrong or justice or fairness. Those who put themselves in the path of the train are the ones to blame, like it or not.
You know, there's times when I think the German work for suicide is closer to the mark than the English one. In German it's selbstmord, literally self-murder. "Suicide" sounds too euphemistic, too "clean."
OK, I'm off the soapbox. Someone else can jump on.
In the story about deaths (linked inside the linked story) there are references to "dynamic envelopes." What the heck does that mean?
IMO, that writer is trying way to hard to be clever. The first paragraph is ridiculous, whatever the heck it is he's trying to say.
Suicide comes from the Latin, suicidium which means the act of killing one's self, pretty much the same as the German term.
I fail to see what either of you find so disconcerting about the story. A lot of statistics that analyze the death toll.
Lithonia OperatorIn the story about deaths (linked inside the linked story) there are references to "dynamic envelopes."
I understood this as a fancy jargon way of expressing where the 'safe clearance' for approaching the train is indicated, like the yellow line on platforms. Think of it as showing the closest you can come without encountering the 'dynamic' effects of the train, including slipstream or anything it might have loose or dragging.
The principal problem with All The Brightline Deaths is that they play into the hands of the considerable number of people who didn't and don't want fast trains on unseparated ROWs, or who think any 'train hitting person' accident is a railroad-induced calamity that shows capitalist hard-heartedness at its worst. I'm concerned that it's getting worse, rather than better, and there is little effective that can be done to preclude that.
Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property ?
The US needs grade separation and secured ROWs for mainlines as part of moving into the second half of the 20th century.
blue streak 1 Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property ?
First Bob Iger wasn't fired. Second, I doubt it would affect things at all.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 blue streak 1 Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property? First Bob Iger wasn't fired. Second, I doubt it would affect things at all.
blue streak 1 Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property?
Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property?
Why do we get these conspiracy theories over and over?
Iger wasn't 'fired' - he's becoming executive Chairman, something I doubt would happen from any sort of forced retirement. The guy replacing him, Chapek, was head of the parks division, and presumably knows full well what the arrangements with Brightline have been ... and are expected to be.
It falls on the guy starting this to explain why he thinks anything regarding 'station plans' will change, and what he thinks they would be. But I expect him to back it up with better actual facts.
If this was a public works project with politicaly connected bidders who are know the system of favors the tune would be diffrent.
That guy never gives answers or explanations, just makes unfounded statements posing as questions.
n012944 blue streak 1 Wonder if the firing of the Disney CEO will affect the station plans of Brightline on Disney property ? First Bob Iger wasn't fired. Second, I doubt it would affect things at all.
These impressions come from reading only the headline, sometimes poorly written, to a news story without reading the whole article. I make it a point to read the whole article when I see a headline, typically to an on-line news story, that has me saying "WHAAAAAT?" the moment I read it.
Whether it's deliberate or just sloppy journalism I'll leave others to judge, but there's sure a whole lot of it going on.
Okay, what headline or story on this thread said Bob Iger was fired? I failed to see it in any of the linked articles.
I can't speak for "blue streak," but several days ago I saw a "pop-up" headline from an on-line news service that said, if I remember correctly, "Bob Iger Out As Disney CEO," or some such. Now if one just read the headline and nothing else it does give the impression Mr. Iger was out on his butt, which is hardly the case.
I didn't bother to read the story myself because I just didn't care. I'm not connected with Disney in any way.
Bob Iger's status at Disney wasn't mentioned on this thread until "blue streak" brought it up.
At every level of a major public works project like building a subway or a sewer system,,There are layers of project builders,engineering firm,planning firms,acountants and unions that a savvy politician could hit and has every right to shake down for political contributions and favors. The problem with Brightline is that they did not ask for or needed the permisiom of the local politicos to exist. S Florida is basicaly New York Politics Tammery Hall South. Had the project been funded and planned with public dollers it would have take 15 years min to have the first shovel of dirt and have gone into hundreds of millions of cost overuns and when complete would have had to bee shut down for months do to some planned engineering failure see the Big Dighttps://www.amazon.com/Big-Dig-Reshaping-American-City/dp/0316605980/ref=pd_sbs_14_img_0/142-7426524-3612967?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0316605980&pd_rd_r=9072fddd-8fa2-4c48-9617-b27e78aebdee&pd_rd_w=A7TQS&pd_rd_wg=Swe7K&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=71M91CSRA0JDA1X5BJ3Y&psc=1&refRID=71M91CSRA0JDA1X5BJ3Y
Not always but a quick resignation usually is because asked to resign immediately. Without any underlying reason does appear unusual ? Could be no reason is because of some clause in employment contract.
blue streak 1 Not always but a quick resignation usually is because asked to resign immediately. Without any underlying reason does appear unusual ? Could be no reason is because of some clause in employment contract.
People that are fired don't stick around as the Executive Chairman.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/25/disney-bob-iger-explains-why-hes-staying-at-disney.html
And some on here complain about news organizations!! On here we get the worst sort of speculation and innuendo without substance to back it up, all hiding behind his usual question marks.
Here's the story on Bob Iger. It is not very long.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2020-02-25/disney-ceo-bob-iger-bob-chapek
The Nimbys are still trying to derail Brightline. Now they are getting the Florida transportation commission to investigate.. Investigate what ? Just more waste of taxpayers money. Maybe some of that taxpayer money needs to find some black pockets ?
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/2020/02/24/virgin-trains-discussed-florida-transportation-commission-rail-safety/4855518002/
blue streak 1 The Nimbys are still trying to derail Brightline. Now they are getting the Florida transportation commission to investigate.. Investigate what ? Just more waste of taxpayers money. Maybe some of that taxpayer money needs to find some black pockets ? https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/2020/02/24/virgin-trains-discussed-florida-transportation-commission-rail-safety/4855518002/
And just what do you mean by your last sentence, where a statement is hiding behind a question mark?
Looks like with Bob Iger's lateral move at Disney things are going to hell in a handbasket already.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/jungle-cruise-boat-sinks-disney-magic-kingdom
Maybe he should move back?
I going to assume he meant back pockets ....
Here is a opinion piece photos and stories of people getting upset about chainsaws.
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/opinion/columnists/gil-smart/2020/02/26/virgin-trains-expansion-kicks-into-high-gear-get-ready-disruptions/4862443002/
Comments redacted to prevent more political meddling.
OvermodIger wasn't 'fired' - he's becoming executive Chairman, something I doubt would happen from any sort of forced retirement.
At many large companies your prohibited via company policy from holding both the position of CEO and Chairman of the Board of Directors which makes it necessary to resign from one to serve in the other. This is done because at those same companies the Board sets the CEO's compensation and supervises his job performance. At companies where the CEO is combined with Chairman I am not sure how those duties work out but stockholders generally do not like a combined CEO and Chairman of the Board position as they view it as eliminating a fundamental check and balance in good Corporate governance. Not an expert in the area by any means just mentioning it as probably also the reason the resignation took place if the guy assumed the role of Chairman of the Board.
Would be interesting to go over the railroads in the United States and see which ones had a combined CEO / Chairperson position (if any) and which had those positions seperate and independent. Just as an exercise in curiousity.
I have also seen it but rarely where CEO and Chairperson were seperate but the two were close personal friends and somewhat "chummy". Which kind of fails the part where they should be independent of one another.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
People keep talking about the DFW to San Antonio corridor and existing RR rights-of-way. But I remember reading that Amtrak's bigest problem operating over it was the directional freight running on the 2 lines between these end points that caused much of the delays. It sounds to me like it would still be a very major expense for something like Brightline to operate between the 2 end points due to this directional freight set-up.
alphas People keep talking about the DFW to San Antonio corridor and existing RR rights-of-way. But I remember reading that Amtrak's bigest problem operating over it was the directional freight running on the 2 lines between these end points that caused much of the delays. It sounds to me like it would still be a very major expense for something like Brightline to operate between the 2 end points due to this directional freight set-up.
The corridor would have to be upgraded. The best option would be to double track the former MKT line, which passes through Waco, a city of more than 135,000 people, for most of the route. It would be costly, but it probably would cost less than building a new railroad from scratch.
The I-35 corridor, especially between Georgetown and San Antonio, is one of the most congested in the U.S. So, where are we improving passenger rail in Texas? Between Dallas and Houston, which is an ideal air corridor. Why? Because it is suitable for the Japanese to export their high speed rail technology to North America.
In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set. Pathetic!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Not true. They've been very busy exploring every single planet in the Solar System, including New Horizons to Pluto and the Kyper Belt and also including landing a probe on Titan, one of Saturn's moons.
Imagine having pictures sent back on approach and from landing on an ice moon of Saturn, 8x the distance from our own sun, call it a billion miles.
The salty sulphide laden seawater geysers they bravely passed through from orbit, collecting samples, on Enceladus alone has changed science.
Just getting into an orbit around Mercury with Messenger was a remarkable accomplishment. That's not easy. Took 7 years with precision timing every step of the way.
The sheer volume of data they have collected from all of this has expanded our knowledge of all science and our origins with many surprises along the way.
Just because the media does not hype up and go ga ga over acquiring exceptional and ground breaking knowledge certainly does not mean they have a poor mindset.
https://i.imgur.com/KRSN7at.mp4
Of course, NASA doesn't have the problem of having to deal with NIMBY's or BANANA's in space. At least not yet.
Hey, sounds like a great idea for a sci-fi film, "NIMBY's In Space!"
I wonder what J.J. Abrams could do with it?
Well they were their own NIMBYs -- they were going to crash Cassini on Enceladus as it's last mission flyby but once they found salt water geysers, and lots of them, they did not want to chance there could be life there and contaminate the whole place with microbes from Earth (Earth cooties) so they burned it up in the atmosphere of Saturn ... and it sent back 30 years worth of data to interpret as it did until the signal stopped transmitting... imagine that! They didn't expect that either.
Enceladus is very close to Saturns rings and that is one of the reasons they reflect so brightly.. those geysers shoot into space and the saltwater/ice falls on them replenishing their shiny surface with a fresh shine. Nobody knew that, not even in a wild crazy guess.
If it wasn't for steam locomotives and trying to figure out how to make them better we would never even have come up with the Laws of Thermodynamics when we did.
Scientific discoveries really can bend your mind into facing truths and the simple beauty of the cosmos.
MiningmanScientific discoveries really can bend your mind into facing truths and the simple beauty of the cosmos.
After decades of science fiction stories and novels, true science reveals the that same chemistry and physics that exist on Earth - exist everywhere else in the Universe.
Unless and until Man creates a transportation method that can take human beings at faster than light speed - we will forever be restricted to personally exploring planets in our own Solar system.
MiningmanNot true.
I call crock.
Where is the large-scale manufacturing and vehicle-assembly capability in the higher range of LEO, outside the trace atmosphere but inside the radiation belts? the nickel-iron asteroid mining? the single-crystal manufacturing by the kiloton? Where are the powersats? Where are the space habs? Where is colonization at L5 or other Lagrange points in various systems? Where are the lunar colonies?
A few shoestring-financed slingshot-orbited probes, wonderful though their results be, only amount to a fractional percent of 'what could have been'.
(Although I've said before, and I'll say again, it is a VERY good thing we got no functional Almaz ... and that was more on the way to being built than any of the things I mentioned.)
You been reading Popular Mechanics from the 50's again?
Also I suggest cutting down on your Star Trek viewing.
Yeah, "Star Trek's" been all downhill after "Voyager" anyway.
BaltACD In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set. Pathetic!
Presumably you wrote your message on a PC that was developed in the United States and uses software put together by Microsoft, Apple, etc. Just one small example of the USA no can do mind set.
Here is another example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRKm6PG918
For someone that holds every license issued by the FAA, this is poetry in motion. Don't know how it came together in the U.S.? Maybe the Russians put it together at night when no one was looking.
Wow, a land development scheme in south Florida turns to questionable tactics. Who would have ever seen this coming?
PJS1Just one small example of the USA no can do mind set.
I think he was referring more to orbital and space travel than to incompetence in tech...
Here is another example ... For someone that holds every license issued by the FAA, this is poetry in motion. Maybe the Russians put it together at night when no one was looking.
The better comparison with what Balt was saying is where development of the 2707 line would have been at a similar number of years of evolution. Let alone VentureStar or the wide variety of technologies for semiballistic flight. (Or the things Avro Canada might have developed -- but that's another story, best told by real and not honorary Canadians). How long have you had your Mach rating? Your Mach 25 patch? Those might have been almost commonplace by now.
Of course the debt to the Russians does need to be recognized -- both as a competitor in space and as an excuse to spend trillions in the aggregate on rocket science and hardware. Who in America would have privately financed a push to space without government support of the whole slew of enabling technologies ... through several generations of process, many of which became essentially worthless when superseded? We have a long and checkered history of can-don't until pushed or threatened beyond complacency, including so many of our corporations that were worldwide household names years ago but now gone (or swallowed or replaced by foreigners with more can-do where their mouth is).
I'm always willing with open mindset to see the flip side but sometimes there is a third dimension to things , in fact most times.
As Kathy Shadlie wrote " My hostility to NASA and all its works and pomps is longstanding and unshakable. The space program was a shameful waste of extorted tax dollars, all to fly to a rock in the sky that doesn't even have any cool animals.
Defenders retort that the space program has spun off a host of indispensable inventions, but such wonders, if truly crucial, would have been developed anyhow — perhaps even faster, and more cheaply, had the government left trillions in stolen cash in the hands of private enterprise.
In fact, a fictional "space program" has arguably inspired as many innovations as the real one, and as its sets — dressed with papier mâché boulders and (probably) Christmas lights behind cardboard — can attest, was far more cost-efficient."
Without war, no Manhattan Project (I'm disregarding the controversy) and no nuclear energy perhaps and a lot of side developments.
"In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set. Pathetic!"
Ignoring the context for a moment, it is a broad brush indictment.
PJS1"In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set. Pathetic!" Ignoring the context for a moment, it is a broad brush indictment.
Go big or go home.
Remember at the time Kennedy made his by the end of the decade speech - the USA was trailing the USSR in space accomplishments.
[/quote]
PJS1 BaltACD In the 50 years since the Moon landing, the USA has morphed from a 'CAN DO' mind set to a 'NO F'N WAY' mind set. Pathetic! Presumably you wrote your message on a PC that was developed in the United States and uses software put together by Microsoft, Apple, etc. Just one small example of the USA no can do mind set. Here is another example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRKm6PG918 For someone that holds every license issued by the FAA, this is poetry in motion. Don't know how it came together in the U.S.? Maybe the Russians put it together at night when no one was looking.
"Poetry in motion" all right! "If it looks good, it'll fly good!"
But it'll never hold a place in my heart like these birds do...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXZYpGVaoQ
You have no idea how that tugs at the heart of this old mainly jet jockey. anther one is an over fly of 3 B-36s
I know blue streak, wasn't that something? Wasn't that freaking something?
The aerial heroes, the aces, of World War One are remembered, but you know what, in my opinion ALL those early aviators were heroes.
Not too long ago I watched a video of a retired Air Force colonel, a fighter jock, who said "Once you've flown fighters nothing else compares! But now I'm retired, and buying an F-15 is out of the question."
You know what he did? He built a replica Nieuport 28 WW1 fighter!
"It's not an F-15, but it fills the bill!"
Flintlock76"Poetry in motion" all right! "If it looks good, it'll fly good!" But it'll never hold a place in my heart like these birds do... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXZYpGVaoQ
WW I planes are great. 21st Century video and how their shutters work when taking video of propeller driven aircraft suck - depending upon propeller speeds the the video makes the prop look like it is moving in one direction and then an instant later it is moving in the opposite direction.
Balt: You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24. The wagon wheels look like they are going backwards. We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward.
blue streak 1Balt: You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24. The wagon wheels look like they are going backwards. We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward.
What is even more disturbing are those video cameras that make propellers look like they are bent at a right angle under certain circumstances.
blue streak 1 Balt: You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24. The wagon wheels look like they are going backwards. We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward.
That wagon wheels rolling backward phenomenon was noticed by Hollywood decades ago. They figured out a fix but it just wasn't cost-effective, so they let it go figuring audiences would ignore it anyway. They were right.
And I've noticed that weird propeller spin phenomenon of various videos as well. Since I know what's causing it I just ignore it.
and Kung Fu movies there lips keep moving after they stop talking and David Carridine is not Asian
Flintlock76 blue streak 1 Balt: You can also get that moving back vision from the old westerns filmed at 16 frames a second and played at 24. The wagon wheels look like they are going backwards. We had a terrible time trying to convince a boy hood friend of ours that it was not going backward. That wagon wheels rolling backward phenomenon was noticed by Hollywood decades ago. They figured out a fix but it just wasn't cost-effective, so they let it go figuring audiences would ignore it anyway. They were right. And I've noticed that weird propeller spin phenomenon of various videos as well. Since I know what's causing it I just ignore it.
I get the backward rotation on the videos my Garmin VIRB Elite makes on my racing.
The eyes and their pathway's to the brain and how the brain handles rotary motion can created the backward 'vision' even without film or video being involved.
I'm glad you gents enjoyed that WW1 fly-past video I posted, but in the interest of equal time...
If that video was a good example of a German two-seater crew's nightmare, how about a British two-seater crew's nightmare? Maybe this one's scarier? Especially considering who it is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iJpzsbsD2M
Flintlock: another great video. Do all our posters realize how hard that take off in formation is ? Just one burp of any aircraft's engine and things would get dicey quickly. Those engines are probably much less reliable than todays recips.
Blue streak, the late Cole Palen, the creator of the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome said the old engines were actually pretty good as long as you took care of them.
Engine issues during the First World War were usually due to poor fuel, (the unleaded gas of those days caused carbon build-up on the spark plugs, cars had the same problem too) poor lubricants, and iffy maintanance when parts didn't come through.
Same with the machine guns. There was nothing wrong with the designs, but problems typically were due to poor ammunition or poor quality control during manufacture.
And I concur, the pilots flying those triplanes know their stuff! Great formation takeoff, expertly done!
Flintlock76That wagon wheels rolling backward phenomenon was noticed by Hollywood decades ago. They figured out a fix but it just wasn't cost-effective, so they let it go figuring audiences would ignore it anyway. They were right.
It occurs to me that I don't ever remember seeing steam engine driver spokes moving backwards on film.
The illusion is caused by the spacing and rotational speed of the spokes relative to the timing of film exposure from cel to cel. Steam locomotive spokes are spaced differently and probably turn at a different rotational speed.
Something not entirely unexpected. Virgin Atlantic declared Bankruptcy. Bloomberg ( paywalled ) reports that Brightline has terminated its relationship with Virgin. Virgin denies.
Brightline says it will go back to being called Brightline.
CSSHEGEWISCHThe illusion is caused by the spacing and rotational speed of the spokes relative to the timing of film exposure from cel to cel. Steam locomotive spokes are spaced differently and probably turn at a different rotational speed.
Watch a propeller aircraft engine after it has been started and try to visually figure out if the prop is moving clockwise or counter clockwise.
Human vision has a latency in the frame rate that the brain can handle.
BaltACDHuman vision has a latency in the frame rate that the brain can handle.
As I recall from psychophysics, image-formation latency in people is about 19ms. Substantial image change faster than that results in a blur, or due to human 'image processing' the disappearance of the thing changing faster -- hence the reason you can see the brake detail behind fast-turning car wheel spokes.
Film on the other hand is shot not only at a fixed frame rate but with a shutter speed fast enough to eliminate more unpleasant motion blur as well as give varied depth of field and a couple of other effects. Movies are a trick, a way of fooling the human perceptive system into thinking it is seeing smooth motion, but the actual information coded into the individual frames is massively reduced, and one very significant consequence is that phase information is lost. The actual thing captured on the film at 'wheels backward' speed is like stroboscopic vision with the pulse rate slightly slower than the advance between identical spokes -- this being indistinguishable from the same wheel turned slightly backward at much lower speed at the same lighting repetition rate.
Far more 'fun' and annoying are some of the visual effects from CCD cameras, which can have really fast effective 'shutter speed' but long image-processing time and hence low effective frame rate separate from nominal resolution. Propellers shot with these have all sorts of weird distortions in addition to what can be wildly varying perception of rotational direction.
Meanwhile there is a perceptual 'quirk' that recognition of a processed image in the brain can 'freeze' certain images; the original determination of that 19ms. acquisition was done stroboscopically to see how long an item needed to be illuminated for a subject to 'remember' details of it... the conscious memory taking much longer to form. When I first joined SMPTE I had the bright idea that a vastly enhanced perception of dizzying speed might be produced by combining the two effects of blur and periodic capture, by shooting most frames with corresponding average blur but interposing periodic frames with high stop-motion resolution, a bit like the research into recognizable subliminals. This worked remarkably well... at recreating precisely the confusion in image recognition that makes people disoriented and sick watching roller coasters and the like without vestibular coupling. It certainly worked to enhance the thrill of speed ... the thrill of helpless speed where you have no idea where you'll be pulled next.
Wow! Brightline ends agreement with Virgin Trains. That was kind of sudden. I guess they got sick of waiting for the capital pay in from Virigin.
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2020/08/08-digest-brightline-ends-marketing-agreement-with-virgin-group
Spent the holiday with some windshield time in Central Florida. Drove from Orlando to Cocoa along FL-528. Grading and bridge construction was in process along the whole route.
There is a large stockpile of concrete ties at the intersection of 528 and Industry Road.
It is visible in the Google satellite view.
Brightline being pushed by Florida to get every thing approved for Orlando -- Tampa.
Rail News - Brightline told to finalize Orlando-Tampa plan by mid-summer. For Railroad Career Professionals (progressiverailroading.com)
Florida authorities tell Brightline to lock down Orlando-Tampa passenger-train plan by mid-summer - Orlando Sentinel
Brightline is going to build a tunnel under state route 528 by using a box jacking method. They expect it will only take 10 days. Does anyone know exactly how the method works ? In a way it sounds line the way casings are jacked under RRs and roads but on a very big steriod ?. The number of workers seem to indicate that workers will be working at the face ?
Brightline set to make history with box-jacking method - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)
EDIT: Here is a link
Jacked Structures - Box Jacking
blue streak 1Brightline is going to build a tunnel under state route 528 by using a box jacking method. They expect it will only take 10 days. Does anyone know exactly how the method works ? In a way it sounds line the way casings are jacked under RRs and roads but on a very big steriod ?. The number of workers seem to indicate that workers will be working at the face ? Brightline set to make history with box-jacking method - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com) EDIT: Here is a link Jacked Structures - Box Jacking
Considering the typical Central Florida elevations (or lack thereof) - who is going over and who is going under.
Bright line is going under 528
Found this:
https://www.petrucco.com/box-jacking/
blue streak 1Bright line is going under 528
Which then begs the question - how much of a dip in the line of the right of way will their be and over how long of a distance? Will the clearance plate only clear Brightline or will it be built to current Class 1 unrestricted clearance plates?
The clearance diagram may not be the biggest issue. Considering that most of Florida is about 10 feet or less above sea level, drainage may be a bigger problem.
BaltACDWhich then begs the question - how much of a dip in the line of the right of way will their be and over how long of a distance?
Will the clearance plate only clear Brightline or will it be built to current Class 1 unrestricted clearance plates?
OvermodThat they are essentially directional-drilling on a large rectangular scale implies to me that minimal clearance gage is in play...
The linked article says "The underpass, once constructed, will measure 31 ft high by 43 ft wide, will be the length of a football field and will accommodate two trains side by side."
MidlandMike Overmod That they are essentially directional-drilling on a large rectangular scale implies to me that minimal clearance gage is in play... The linked article says "The underpass, once constructed, will measure 31 ft high by 43 ft wide, will be the length of a football field and will accommodate two trains side by side."
Overmod That they are essentially directional-drilling on a large rectangular scale implies to me that minimal clearance gage is in play...
At 31 feet high it is being constructed to the current clearance plate which, I believe, requires 25 feet from top of rail to the bottom of whatever is over top of the rail.
I am wondering how far below Route 528 the jacked in structure will be? I am GUESSING 10 or more feet below Route 528 so the bottom of the jacked in structure will be 41 feet or more below the grade of Route 528. Wonder how far out the grade to the bottom of the structure will be extended from the structure? With a 1% grade we are talking about 4100 feet in each direction.
If I remember correctly we discussed the Goldenrod Road crossing a while back -- but I don't remember box-jacking being mentioned or discussed. Same for the LIRR improvement project, where I remember seeing only bridge-raising projects.
I'd be interested to see the drainage plans for the completed structure.
The linked article says the box-jacked tunnel will be built under Route 528 just west if US 1. Looking at Google Earth, this is where the expressway is already on a fill leading to a bridge that crosses over the FEC mainline and US 1.
Brightline announces construction has met the 50 percent completion mark.
Rail News - Brightline completes first half of Orlando high-speed rail construction. For Railroad Career Professionals (progressiverailroading.com)
MidlandMike The linked article says the box-jacked tunnel will be built under Route 528 just west if US 1. Looking at Google Earth, this is where the expressway is already on a fill leading to a bridge that crosses over the FEC mainline and US 1.
Video mark 3:34 elapsed time video of BOX JACKING.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS97kwoDSHg
CMStPnP MidlandMike The linked article says the box-jacked tunnel will be built under Route 528 just west if US 1. Looking at Google Earth, this is where the expressway is already on a fill leading to a bridge that crosses over the FEC mainline and US 1. Video mark 3:34 elapsed time video of BOX JACKING. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS97kwoDSHg
The shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline.
MidlandMikeThe shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline.
Even more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run. Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.
CMStPnP MidlandMike The shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline. Even more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run. Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.
MidlandMike The shocking thing about the video, is that the toll roads want Brightline to pay for the loss of tolls from those passengers who choose Brightline.
Florida Corrupt? Who knew!
CMStPnPEven more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run. Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system,
It's possible this representative sided with property owners because he believed that it is wrong to take private property. I do.
A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system. That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.
York1 John
BaltACDFlorida Corrupt?
No local voters enjoy having a railroad as a neighbor, particularly a fast one. Should it be surprising that local representatives follow that line?
Likewise, if there is free money to be extortedobtained at the negotiating table, when the Highway authority holds the high cards... can you honestly blame them for try
Likewise, if there is free money to be extortedobtained at the negotiating table, when the Highway authority holds the high cards... can you honestly blame them for trying to get their cake and eat it too?
Of course businessmen and capitalists are made of money, and Fortress especially so. Make them pay, and defend your constituents -- who largely don't benefit directly from either rail or its associated development -- from the heartless pursuit of selfish gain! Then soak 'em again with business taxes...
York1It's possible this representative sided with property owners because he believed that it is wrong to take private property. I do. A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system. That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.
Actually No, it was a group led by former CEO of American Airlines, Robert Crandall whom was against FEC running the trains over existing rails because of increased traffic and the feeling that the "local riff-raff" from downtown Miami (yes, that is a form of racism), would now have increased access to their communities and allegedly increase the crime rate and lower property values. That was their main argument added with the argument the system would never be profitable and Florida would be forced to step in and subsidize it or left with a half constructed system. I think if you check, Brightline hasn't used any or much of any eminent domain to keep costs low. It's new line runs primarily on state owned land easements.
CMStPnP Actually No, it was a group led by former CEO of American Airlines, Robert Crandall whom was against FEC running the trains over existing rails because of increased traffic and the feeling that the "local riff-raff" from downtown Miami (yes, that is a form of racism), would now have increased access to their communities and allegedly increase the crime rate and lower property values. That was their main argument added with the argument the system would never be profitable and Florida would be forced to step in and subsidize it or left with a half constructed system. I think if you check, Brightline hasn't used any or much of any eminent domain to keep costs low. It's new line runs primarily on state owned land easements.
York1I'm talking about the Brightline path from MCO to Disney Springs. Brightline wants to use 417's ROW, which would diminish tolls, use eminent domain on several properties, and bypass other Orange County sites to deliver passengers directly to Disney. While I don't blame Brightline for wanting that route, I will always side with property owners. If I owned property along or near the route, I would be talking to my congressman everyday wondering why I may lose my land or diminish my property's value so that Disney, and Brightline's millionaire investors, will benefit. A congressman representing the people in his district is the epitome of a democratic republic.
I am not sure if you had any real estate law courses or not. However, that is part of the price of living in a Democracy. The government can allow your property to be taken with just compensation given to you for the land......if they can argue the good of the many far outweighs the retention of the land by the one or the few. Congress wrote that specific law of emminent domain as well. Since most land in this country, especially around railroad lines was Federal to begin with. Arguing the property rights argument over eminent domain is not a strong argument since yourself, your ancestors, or the chain of people before you... obtained the land from the railway or the Feds to begin with.
Diminished tolls are a red herring argument. Which I would like to see presented in a court room because the fact is also because of the rail line being built it can be shown it is significantly diminishing auto emissions as well which results in avoidance of EPA fines and EPA remediation. Even under electric automotive power you still have an emissions reduction or carbon footprint reduction. If I am not mistaken some of the tolls or road taxes in the very same area go to pay for SunRail? So it is also a circular argument to argue that Brightline's impact on tolls is impacting Florida negatively.
In the specific case you mention. Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline. It's like a $1.4 Billion difference. Not small potatoes and Brightline could use the same argument as your using. It's being railroaded into accepting a higher cost right of way for the benefit of a few wealthy Corporations.
Interesting note: Fortress Investments owns Rail America as well.
CMStPnP In the specific case you mention. Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline.
In the specific case you mention. Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline.
Why should they? Typical foamer board. If someone builds a house next to the tracks, then complains about the noise, they are told the tracks were there first. When a railroad is trying to build tracks through a communtiy, (Hunters Creek in this case) the community members who object are labeled NIMBYS, and in this weird case, are told they should pick up the cost for another route.
Hypocritical.
n012944Why should they? Typical foamer board. If someone builds a house next to the tracks, then complains about the noise, they are told the tracks were there first. When a railroad is trying to build tracks through a communtiy, (Hunters Creek in this case) the community members who object are labeled NIMBYS, and in this weird case, are told they should pick up the cost for another route. Hypocritical.
No I think it is a consistent argument. You have a small group of people insisting that the eminent domain or negative economic impact of taking the land for the railroad ROW should be higher because they do not want to be impacted. It is again a good of the many vs the few argument. That and of course imposing two doglegs into the route of the line will slow speeds and impact service over the whole line. I don't think the argument will prevail in a court room. We'll see if it gets that far or Brightline caves in.
CMStPnPArguing the property rights argument over eminent domain is not a strong argument since yourself, your ancestors, or the chain of people before you... obtained the land from the railway or the Feds to begin with.
You and I will have a major disagreement with this. Who owns federal lands? People own the lands. Not the government. Property rights are owned by the people, not the government. That's like saying a tax cut is the government giving away money. It's our money to begin with.
It's a dangerous argument to claim that "arguing the property rights argument over eminent domain is not a strong argument since [we] ... obtained the land from the ... Feds to begin with".
"Not a strong argument"! Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.
Your argument dismissing property rights over eminent domain because it was the government's land anyway ... I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with you.
CMStPnPIn the specific case you mention. Hey I am fine with shifting the route to give better access to Universal Studios and the like BUT in all fairness, they should pay the cost difference between the new route and the old route not Brightline. It's like a $1.4 Billion difference. Not small potatoes and Brightline could use the same argument as your using. It's being railroaded into accepting a higher cost right of way for the benefit of a few wealthy Corporations.
Brightline is not being 'railroaded' into anything. They are the ones asking for eminent domain and for sharing the ROW with a toll road. And Disney comes out with a private transit system from the airport to their business by taking away property from several citizens and ruining the property values of many other citizens.
If the argument is that the new railroad's Disney stop is just because it's on the way to Tampa, then there are other better routes to the south that completey bypass Disney altogether.
Brightline is a private company. They can try to route their railroad wherever they want. It is also the right of the citizens of Orange County to stop them or force them to make allowances. The issue that it may cost Brightline's millionaire investors more money is irrelevant.
Of course, Disney has nothing to do with this either, do they? It's kind of funny that at the same time Brightline is pushing this route, Disney announces they are ending the Magical Express from MCO.
Remember Crandal owns a lot of AA stock and more fixed price options. Good money to be had if AA stock is not hurting from Brightline.
Remember Crandal owns a lot of AA stock and more fixed price options. Good money to be had if AA stock is not loosing value from Brightline.
York1... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.
From the 5th Amedment to the Constitution:
... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
York1A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system. That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.
That would be a corruption, except enriching milloinaires is not a reason for eminent domain. The legal basis is that the project must show that it is for the public good.
MidlandMike... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
.......And there it is.
Under our real estate laws your next door neighbor can actually steal a portion of your property legally by maintaining it unchallenged for a number of years. Lookup "Adverse Possession" and the 5-6 requirements in order to make that argument in court.
CMStPnP MidlandMike ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. .......And there it is. Under our real estate laws your next door neighbor can actually steal a portion of your property legally by maintaining it unchallenged for a number of years. Lookup "Adverse Possession" and the 5-6 requirements in order to make that argument in court.
MidlandMike ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
And there what is?
The fact that eminent domain is legal is not the issue here.
The fact that Brightline wants the government to use eminent domain so that Brightline can build a railroad to earn money for their bondholders is the issue.
This whole discussion is based on your condemnation of an elected official working to represent his constituents instead of a group of millionaire investors:
CMStPnPActually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.
It would be a corruption of our democratic system if the representative didn't work to represent those "wealthy residential and land owners". Maybe because they're wealthy, they don't deserve the representation?
And in this case, the county and state are going to have to decide what is good for the public interest: a train built by a private company and financed by millionaire investors, or the county's own landowners who will lose property and whose remaining property will lose value.
What does adverse possession have to do with this discussion?
MidlandMike York1 ... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country. From the 5th Amedment to the Constitution: ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
York1 ... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.
This isn't what the discussion is about. The fact that eminent domain is legal doesn't change what Brightline's plans call for. The fact is that eminent domain is a process of last resort, and should be fought by land owners in nearly every case.
If Orange County and the state of Florida decide to use eminent domain in this case, that is their right.
It won't change the fact that it would benefit Brightline's millionaire investors, benefit Disney's billionaire owners, and take land and hurt property owners' land values along the route.
York1This isn't what the discussion is about. The fact that eminent domain is legal doesn't change what Brightline's plans call for. The fact is that eminent domain is a process of last resort, and should be fought by land owners in nearly every case. If Orange County and the state of Florida decide to use eminent domain in this case, that is their right. It won't change the fact that it would benefit Brightline's millionaire investors, benefit Disney's billionaire owners, and take land and hurt property owners' land values along the route.
Of course the local government should look out for their citizens. That includes those living along the route, but also all the citizens of the county who benefit from the tourist industry, and also those who might use the transportation services of Brightline. As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.
As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.
MidlandMikeAs for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.
This isn't transit for the community. This is a train from the airport to Disney. It provides no transit for Hunter's Creek, since the train only goes through. At least the highway has two access points for the citizens there.
MidlandMikeAs I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.
If this was a public operation, I might agree with you. It's not. Privately run Brightline wants this route because it's cheaper than the route Orlando wants. Cheaper means Brightline won't have to sell more bonds and the present wealthy bondholders will benefit. If this were a public utility, they would probably route the train to other venues also, such as the convention center and Universal.
It's obvious I disagree with others here. I've posted enough. I apologize for the rants, but eminent domain, for a good reason, is a hot button issue for me. Enough said.
Here is a U tube of the May 2021 progress Cocoa - Orlando airport.
Brightline Construction: Orlando Line Along State Road 528 - May 2021 - YouTube
York1And in this case, the county and state are going to have to decide what is good for the public interest: a train built by a private company and financed by millionaire investors, or the county's own landowners who will lose property and whose remaining property will lose value.
Fortress Investments is an "Investment Group", which is a group of Venture Capital Firms pooling their money together as one. I noticed you no longer refer to them as Billionaire investors and 99.9% or more of them are not. Anyone of any income level can join or buy shares in a Venture Capital firm, you do not need to be a millionaire. It is another form of investing just like Real Estate Investment Trusts or Mutual Funds. So Fortress Investments is an aggregation of Individual Firms which is an aggregation of individual investors. You don't seem to grasp that based on how your writing your responses. Facts are most of the venture capitalist investors are probably not as wealthy as the landowners around Orlando (so your argument on the privelege of the wealthy is probably and most likely turned around in this case).
Have you looked at what they are asking for land in that area near Disney on an acreage basis and what the property taxes are on that acreage? So while I recognize it is an appeal towards base emotion over intellect, it's probably not appropriate to attempt to use the "class warfare" argument here. I am pretty confident in this case the landowners around Disney are not poor or down and out on their finances as you attempt to portray.
And if being poor in this country means owning acreage in Orlando adjacent to Disney.......someone please make me poor!!!!
I had made up my mind last night not to respond anymore. And yet, stupid me, here I am again. This will now be my last post ... I promise. (I heard those cheers out there!)
CMStPnPSo while I recognize it is an appeal towards base emotion over intellect, it's probably not appropriate to attempt to use the "class warfare" argument here. I am pretty confident in this case the landowners around Disney are not poor or down and out on their finances as you attempt to portray.
Appeal toward base emotion? Attempt to use class warfare as an argument? Before I even posted my first comment in this thread, this is what you wrote:
CMStPnPEven more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run. Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.
Seems you were using class warfare and appealing to base emotion to show how bad the representative was for taking the side of the bad rich people.
Nowhere did I claim the landowners were "poor or down and out on their finances". In fact, if you check back, I said the wealthy landowners deserved representation, even though they may be wealthy. You were the one who implied their elected representative was wrong for taking the side of the "wealthy residential and land owners".
CMStPnP I noticed you no longer refer to them as Billionaire investors and 99.9% or more of them are not. Anyone of any income level can join or buy shares in a Venture Capital firm, you do not need to be a millionaire.
By billionaire investors, I was referring to the investment groups, not the individuals. The same with Disney, which is owned by large, very rich investment companies and foundations. It's possible even my own retirement funds have some money invested there. That does not make eminent domain right.
I will once again go back to my original post and why I even got involved in this discussion.
A U.S. representative is entitled, and even obligated, to represent the people in his district. It does not matter how rich those people are, and it does not matter how much we may want a new train. That is not, as you claimed, a "corruption of our Democratic system". It is, in fact, the way a democratic republic is supposed to function.
CMStPnP and Midland Mike, I hope nothing I've said causes a problem. I always appreciate both of you and your comments on the various forum topics. I apologize if I've have said anything that causes a problem.
I promise, promise, and this time I really, really, mean it, this will be my last post in this thread.
York1 MidlandMike As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise. This isn't transit for the community. This is a train from the airport to Disney. It provides no transit for Hunter's Creek, since the train only goes through. At least the highway has two access points for the citizens there. MidlandMike As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation. If this was a public operation, I might agree with you. It's not. Privately run Brightline wants this route because it's cheaper than the route Orlando wants. Cheaper means Brightline won't have to sell more bonds and the present wealthy bondholders will benefit. If this were a public utility, they would probably route the train to other venues also, such as the convention center and Universal. It's obvious I disagree with others here. I've posted enough. I apologize for the rants, but eminent domain, for a good reason, is a hot button issue for me. Enough said.
MidlandMike As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.
MidlandMike As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.
I recall that Sun Rail was also interested in the line for transit options.
Regarding private vs. public, historical review of the line may be instructive. In 2000 Florida voters approved a constitutional amendment to fund HSR. Orlando-Tampa was an early favorite. However, before things got off the ground, Gov, Jeb Bush endorsed the repeal of the amendment, and voters reversed themselves. Then with stimulus funds available to help recover from the Great Recession, the Feds granted the funds to revive the Orlando-Tampa proposal. This time Gov. Scott killed the project. (I guess I should be greatful since my state, Michigan, got redirected funds to buy the east 100 miles of the Wolverine corridor, which is being upgraded to 110 mph.) So maybe the third time's the charm, with a private company funding the line. Florida apparently wants the line, they just don't want to pay for it. Brightline is risking their money, and seeing that the dozen companies that tried private passenger operation in the Amtrak era are no longer in business, it's quite the risk. Even if a public agency had built the line, they would have contracted out the construction to a private company, and may have even contracted out the operation. In any case private investors are probably going to make money, and the public gets the transportation. And for 200 years, with the help of eminent domain, that's how the rail system and all transportation/utility infrastructure was built.
Brightline brige work edition 5
Brightline Construction: The Fifth Bridge Edition - May 2021 - YouTube
This link shows the damage of the FEC Cane Creek bridge. A replacement 2 main track bridge is being built so we can see the progress of bridge being built as well as the damage the ready mix truck did to the bridge being replaced.
The drone footage and audio is very good.
Crane Creek Bridge Strike on the Florida East Coast Railway and Brightline Bridge Construction - YouTube
Construction video May 31, 2021
Flying Over Brightline's Orlando Line Construction: Part 2 - May 31 2021 - YouTube
Here is another overview of Brightline. article starts at about 50 seconds
BUILDING A RAILROAD TO WALT DISNEY WORLD - Brightline Spring 2021 Update - YouTube
Thanks for sharing .. I would imagine Mears will go out of their way to make things a challenge for Brightline.
There were able to find another span to replace the damaged bridge.
https://youtu.be/K6f-TuMf5Nk
Latest report from brightline. A little of slick presentation. Dated june 22. This progress report mainly about ORLANDO - DISNEY.
https://occompt.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=9508045&GUID=E3B3499E-B309-488F-8BB1-8EEB50808127
Index (ocfl.net)
2021-06-22 PPP File 21-768 Work Session Brightline Update.pdf
Sorry cannot get links to work yet.
2021-06-22 PPP File 21-768 Work Session Brightline Update (3).pdf
Regarding eminent domain, I am also strongly opposed when it is used to benefit one class on people over another, and especially when it is used against poor and ethnic neighborhoods. Look at where interstates and expressways and landfills get sited. That is part of a long history of class warfare against the poor and nonwhite. Where were all the representatives then. At least this rail line will be a lot less obtrusive than an expressway or landfill.
Drone footage of the brightline bridge construction over I-95.
2021 Brightline Updated Selects Reel mp4 - YouTube
Anoher section near Jensen Beach.
Brightline Construction in St. Lucie and Martin Counties - June 2021. - YouTube
June / July progress at Melbore and vacinity.
Brightline Construction: Micco Crossover and Melbourne Progress - June/July 2021 - YouTube
July I-95 Cocoa tunnel . What ever Drone he is using is very good.
Brightline Construction: Interstate 95 Bridge and Cocoa Curve/Tunnel Progress - July 2021 - YouTube
July 2021 Orlando - I-95.
Brightline Construction: Progress on the Orlando Line - July 2021 - Bing video
July 2021 bridge work views # 6 along the Atlantic coast. FEC is really going to get a very up to date track from West Palm Beach to Cocoa. A thought on the previous post. The work connection to the Power plant spur would allow freight service to Orlando without going thru the airport !
Brightline Construction: July 2021 Bridge Edition - YouTube
I was thinking about that, but wouldn't the tunnels under 528 hinder freight to Cocoa?
Micco crossover construction July 24,2021
Brightline Construction: Micco Crossover Cutover Day 1 - July 24, 2021 - YouTube
Latest follow up of the Orlando airport construction.
Brightline Orlando International Airport Passenger Rail Construction - July 2021 - YouTube
Full report of construction from Orlando airport to West Palm Beach. Dated August 2021. Certainly a lot of construction work.
Brightline Orlando - West Palm Beach Complete Expansion Construction Update - Summer 2021 - YouTube
Interesting how they built that Micco crossover by joining the two halves together. I have never seen that before.
Construction north of Cocoa to Rockledge. Construction North of Cocoa is to double track from where Brightline turns toward to Orlando up to a connections of FEC 2 main track north of Cocoa turnout.
Brightline Construction: Cocoa and Rockledge Updates - August 2021 - YouTube
blue streak 1blue streak 1 wrote the following post 15 hours ago: Construction north of Cocoa to Rockledge. Construction North of Cocoa is to double track from where Brightline turns toward to Orlando up to a connections of FEC 2 main track north of Cocoa turnout. Brightline Construction: Cocoa and Rockledge Updates - August 2021 - YouTube
Understood the trainsets are push pull but wouldn't train turnaround be faster for trains terminating in Orlando and wouldn't it reduce operational costs over a long duration, if they just built a loop track in Orlando and used that to pull into the station for trains that would turn around there to head back to Miami? Seems they have the real estate space for it, maybe not the money.
Just curious.
They are already planing to go beyond Orlando to Disney World and eventually Tampa, so Orlando would only be an intermediate station. Also Orlando Airport owns the land the depot is built on, and may not want to lose the extra real estate a balloon track would take.
Not many heavy rail trains use balloon tracks for turning. None that I can recall in Chicago. Maybe In NYC?
charlie hebdoMaybe In NYC?
That was what I was thinking. GCT has or had a balloon track. I believe they were more necessary in the past at stub terminals with loose-car passenger railroading prior to widespread MU and cab car usage.
LAPUT has a major construction project to continue some stub tracks to loop back to the line headed south.
Update of construction in Melbourne FL mid August - September. The Cane creek bridge is really a major piece of construction. This was the bridge that hit by a ready mix truck several months ago. For alot of our newer readers they can really get an idea of how RRs go about getting new track. At the end of the video let it continue and you can get view of new FEC business cars at end of the freight train.
Brightline Construction: Melbourne Updates - August/September 2021 - YouTube
Updatee Ft. Pierce Indian river county August 2021
Brightline Construction: Indian River County & Fort Pierce Progress - August 2021 - YouTube
CMStPnPUnderstood the trainsets are push pull but wouldn't train turnaround be faster for trains terminating in Orlando and wouldn't it reduce operational costs over a long duration, if they just built a loop track in Orlando and used that to pull into the station for trains that would turn around there to head back to Miami? Seems they have the real estate space for it, maybe not the money. Just curious.
Also remember, the Premium Class coach is on the south end of the train and they want it in the same place on each trip.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Orlando airport update August 29,2021
Orlando International Airport Brightline Construction - August 31, 2021 - YouTube
Orlando airport east to Cocoa. Aug 29,2021. Note the construction spur to OUC track is almost complete with the turnout just needing to be installed.
Brightline Orlando Line Construction Update - August 29, 2021 - YouTube
it seems like they may have more in mind than just using that OUC connection for construction.
rdamonit seems like they may have more in mind than just using that OUC connection for construction.
Bridge construction
Brightline: The 7th Bridge Construction Edition - September 2021 - YouTube
Article on new trainsets
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2021/09/28/brightline-high-tech-trains-orlando-service-roll-off-production-line-california/5831384001/
The Live Railfan Webcam in Cocoa, FL shows them working on the sub-roadbed for the new tracks.
Sep 18,2021 near Cane creek bridge
Brightline Construction: Rebuilding the New Haven Avenue Crossing - September 2021 - YouTube
October 3rd, 2021. First unit train of rail is pulled by CSX loco over OUC line to the Brightline conection. The rail trai is then pushed onto the brightlile connecting track to the end of the main line approximately 200 feet beyond connecting track. Rail train is 5 high by 8 (?) wide. If 8 wide then 40 sticks x 1600 feet each. = 64000 feet of rail or 32000 track feet. = ~ 6+ miles of new track.
First Train on Brightline’s New Orlando Line - YouTube
Another red trainset on it's way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFpRGPv1XAA
Caught in Kansas City
A look at the Siemens factory building Brightline rolling stock. There are sniptes of other agencies orders.
Building Brightline's Trains: A Tour Inside Siemens Sacramento Rolling Stock Factory - YouTube
Here is a video of #2 Brightline Red when at Sacremento builders. The design of interiors makes wonder why Amtrak has not copied these designs ? Oh wait. Not invented here.!!!!!
Inside BrightRed: A Tour of Brightline's Sixth and Newest Train - YouTube
Brightline PR from executive president interview..
UPDATE High-Speed Rail System From Miami to Orlando | Brightline Returns to Service w/ New Terminals - YouTube
Brightline update from Frontenac thru Cocoa. Frontenac is north of Cocoa where FEC double track from some distance on to the north ends. Brightline and FEC are extending the 2 main tracks on south to the location where the line to Orlando breaks off. Where it breaks off will be 4 Main tracks , then 3 and eventually the 2 MT on toward the south. Here is the latest report. The reports seem to be coming at least once a week. Congrats to all the effort and great overhead work.
Brightline Construction: Frontenac Improvement Project and Cocoa Updates - September/October 2021 - YouTube
I look forward to his updates. Neat shots of the Virtual Railfan cameras at around 10:12.
Brightline is proposing Nov 8 th restart. Have to wonder has FEC dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts for the replacement PTC?
Florida’s Brightline set to restart service Nov. 8 - Trains
Oct 17, 2021 view of Melborne's Crane Creek bridge. Quite a change from last seen. Interesting how the yellow steel construction(?) members are being stored on the long out of service 2nd track bridge structures.
Brightline Crane Creek Bridge Construction - October 17, 2021 - YouTube
The Crane creek bridge is one of the most interesting projects on this line. The logistics to keep everything open and repair truck damage has been great to watch. I was suprised that they didn't use that second bridge for more.
A lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project. Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction.
rdamonA lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project. Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction.
Crane Creek is an inlet of of the Indian River Lagoon which is salt water. It is also not that far from the Atlantic Ocean. Old exposed steel in that environment corrodes faster. It might not be suitable for structural reuse.
Another shorter video containing the over view of the Palm Beach repair facility and some schedule testing. Prior to start of revenue service.
Brightline Simulated Service and Running Repair Facility - October 16, 2021 - YouTube
MidlandMike rdamon A lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project. Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction. Crane Creek is an inlet of of the Indian River Lagoon which is salt water. It is also not that far from the Atlantic Ocean. Old exposed steel in that environment corrodes faster. It might not be suitable for structural reuse.
rdamon A lot of steel will be getting recycled from this project. Brightline should use those bridge sections in their station constuction.
Agreed, I was think more for the 'art' value
From Port Solerno - Jupiter - West Palm Beach Oct 16, 2021. Not much aerial views except for Jupiter draw bridge.
South Florida Brightline Construction - October 2021 - YouTube
Narcoossee road to past OUC rail connection. Track is being laid both ways from the OUC rail connection. Notice all signal locations have solar panels and standby generators where comercial power not available.
Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 1: Narcoossee Road, SR 417, Innovation Way - Oct/Nov 2021 - YouTube
Looks like he is 'in' with the Brightline folks now.
Brightline from Dallas Blvd to state 520 .. His sction 2 of the Airport to FEC overview.,
Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 2: Dallas Blvd to State Road 520 - Oct/Nov 2021 - YouTube
Brightline Oct - Nov 2021 section 3 . State route 520 - Cocoa / FEC connection,
Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 3: State Road 520 to Cocoa - Oct/Nov 2021 - YouTube
The 5 bridges in Brevard County are shown in the following link.
Brightline Construction: The 8th Bridge Edition - Brevard County Bridges Nov/Dec 2021 - YouTube
Well good news does not always follow any well run project.
PDN - You will be interested in this PE report.
Appears that Brightline's Miami central station has problems . This came about because South Florida Regional Transportation Authority - SFRTA (TRI-RAIL) had an independent due dilengience survey of their proposed use of the Miami Central station. A Miami Herald article stated some of these problems were known back in March but SFRTA did not find out until a couple weeks ago.
Report says many items . Essentially bridges do not meet AREMA 200% loads for trains. Think locso especially. Also car step clearances are not sufficient. Steps of cars would drag against platform. Seems like a repeat of what happened in France?
My concern. Are these deficiencies also part of the Brightline section of the station?
SFRTA MiamiCentral Station Report_20211202_Rev01 (1).pdf (miamiherald.com)
Miami Herald article.
Tri-Rail trains won’t fit in new Miami Brightline platform | Miami Herald
Shades of the:
After reading the RC report, which I found to be very well done, (but while I am a Graduate Engineer, I an NOT a Registered Professional Engineer nor is my field Civil Engineering as the Reports author is.) I look forward to the Brightline response. It is too easy for contractors and some engineering firms to "cut" corners and do things to "reduce" cost.
Spackle and paint cover many things you or I would not do if we were remodeling our homes.
Electroliner 1935Shades of the: Florida International University pedestrian bridge collapse. After reading the RC report, which I found to be very well done, (but while I am a Graduate Engineer, I an NOT a Registered Professional Engineer nor is my field Civil Engineering as the Reports author is.) I look forward to the Brightline response. It is too easy for contractors and some engineering firms to "cut" corners and do things to "reduce" cost. Spackle and paint cover many things you or I would not do if we were remodeling our homes.
Remember Champlain Tower South fell in Florida.
Use a standard ... or just see if it works?
"In the report, Railroad Consultants wrote Brightline used a multiplier for train loads that was “roughly 90% less than what is required by AREMA,” the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association. Brightline said it used a different standard used by high-speed rail, according to the report, which recommended testing to see if the trains can safely go up and down the ramp."
Here is the Dec 5th track work north of the Palm Beach maintenance facility According to roaming railfan this work is almost complete north to the first major bridge.
You will note that there are two tracks that cross each other leading off to the west that connect to the TriRail tracks in both a northward and southward direction. These tracks were constructed several years ago. The Trirail connections are between the West Palm Beach TriRail/Amtrak station to the south and the Magnolia Trirail station to the north.. The Magnolia station is the last station for Trirail to the north.. Those two connecting tracks may be used if TriRail ever goes north of this location on the FEC.
Brightline Construction: Northwood Signal and Track Cutover - December 5, 2021 - YouTube
EDIT: Although it will not happen for 5 - 15 years these connections will give Amtrak access to its line on to MIA if Amtrak ever uses FEC to the West Palm Beach connecting track. As wel If the Amtrak line from WPB south ever got blocked for some reason Amtrak could detour on FEC to the connection at IRIS to the Amtrak station.
Here is the goole view of the link .. looks like the overhead was shot before the turnout was installed on the Tri-Rail side.
Dec 19th update of construction progress at Orlando airport.
Brightline Orlando International Airport Passenger Rail Construction Update - December 2021 - YouTube
Bright line going into tech for grade crossing incursions. How is all this going to work without enforcement and penalties?
Rail News - Brightline steps up grade-crossing safety efforts. For Railroad Career Professionals (progressiverailroading.com)
"Brightline partnered with the nonprofit Community Greening on a project to plant more than 3,000 native trees and shrubs along the South Florida railway. Combined with fencing, the native plants will cover more than 10 miles along the Brightline/Florida East Coast Railway corridor serving as a deterrent and channelization mechanism for trespassers."
Translation - Thorn Bushes :D
Do not know if they are in Florida. I have a nuisance thorn bush that grows fast to about 10feet tall, Cannot spell it but it is called Ilegiagnes. Many 1-1/2 inch thorns on all shoots that grow up. Trying to cut it back have to wear hard hat, safety goggles, welder's gloves, and very heavy Zero degree coat with hood.
You mean silverthorn? (Elaeagnus, not something easy to spell!)
Personal armor is desirable working with that stuff. But good fences of it definitely make good neighbors...
Here is a link to railway track and structures which is a more detailed of the crossing protection.
Brightline investing millions of dollars in railroad safety and mental health awareness - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)
Edit found the bush it definitely is the one.
Elaeagnus pungens (Silverthorn, Thorny Elaeagnus, Thorny Olive) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox (ncsu.edu)
EDIT: Best way for Brightline to control is a sidewinder bush hog that can top hedge and vacuum pickup. Body armour defiinitely needed. Roundup does not work too well either.
Thanks for the common name!
Here in the pacific northwest we use "botanical razorwire', otherwise known as blackberry vines.
Construction progress of the Frontenac improvement project. This is the project that will connect a FEC double track about 3-1/2 miles north of the Orlando connection to Cocoa junction. This by constructing a 2nd main track to the Cocoa Junction / Orlando connection.
Brightline Construction: Frontenac Improvement Project & Cocoa Junction - December 2021 - YouTube
Mid December 2021.
Hear is the work in Brevard County. It is from Cocoa junction south to Pineada. Essentially from Cocoa of the post before this on south.
Brightline Construction: Central Brevard County Progress - December 2021 - YouTube
souh Brevard county
Brightline Construction: Southern Brevard County Progress - December 2021 - YouTube
Cocoa junction progressing rapidly as of Jan 5th
Brightline Construction: Cocoa Junction Update - January 5, 2022 - YouTube
Rail installation Orlando - Cocoa. Work is presently just either side of the Orlando Utilitties Commission line to the power plant. Work going both east and west of the OUC rail line. The OUC line is supplying rail and Ballast trains brought there by CSX.
Brightline Construction: Work Train on the Orlando Line - January 10, 2022 - YouTube
Nice write-up about Brightline. https://www.yahoo.com/news/brightline-trains-begin-rolling-cocoa-171341194.html
Brightline test train passed the Cocoa cameras around 12:54 eastern
Video of first training trip north of Wet Palm Beach.
Brightline Test Train and Florida East Coast Railway in Southern Brevard County - January 24, 2022 - YouTube
Jan 2022 Stuart to Jupiter construction. The Jupiter draw bridge appears that the bridge will be one of the last portions to be complete. Reusing that Bascule Bridge and improving it at the same time is going to be a difficult problem. As well the first track bridge west side has to be completed. Then the east track bridge will be replaced with the cranes having to reach over the completed bridge to finish the east track.
Brightline Construction: Stuart to Jupiter Progress - December 2021/January 2022 - YouTube
Great video of the delivery of "Bright Blue" to the Orlando facility
Brightline Orlando Vehicle Maintenance Facility - February 3, 2022 - YouTube
Sorry for this format. Regular posting kept getting 403 forbidden.
Feb 3rd.
First train on new Crane Creek Bridge
Jupiter bridge replacement.
Watch: Crews prepare to tackle complex drawbridge project on Brightline's Orlando route - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)
Fluff piece about Brightline that just touches on th politics.
ANOTHER TRAIN COMING TO DISNEY! - Brightline/SunRail Spring 2022 Update - YouTube
April 9th Bonaventure construction update.
Brightline Construction: Bonaventure Progress and Qualification Trains - February to April 2022 - YouTube
April 16th well edited video. The Loxahatchee old bascule bridge removal. Then the first time placing of temporary bridge which took a lot of time . Hope the twice daily operation will take less time. We all know about draw bridges. Swing bridge, Bascule which was the present bridge and replacement , and lift bridge. There are a few odd balls especially in PNW. Maybe we can call this temporary draw bridge a 2 crane lift bridge?
It will be interesting to warch the daily operation of the Temp bridge.
Brightline Construction: The Start of the Loxahatchee River Drawbridge Replacement - YouTube
There maybe a compromise solution. At first reading thought it was all settled but not so. Brightline seems to go with the convention center route?
How does anyone deal with all the parties? Brightline, Sun rail, CSX, FL DOT, possible Fl governor and legislature, Orange county, Oscelo county, Polk county, Disney ( who will not get the exclusive service they want ), Universal, Convention center, politicians, FRA, Federal funds dispenser, and who knows what else?
EDIT: Orlando city, Kissimmee city, Amtrak,
Compromise plan could extend Brightline toward Tampa, SunRail in Orlando (floridapolitics.com)
March 20,2022 Jupiter -Ft pierce
Brightline Construction: Jupiter, Stuart, Jensen Beach, and Fort Pierce - March 20, 2022 - YouTube
Long u tubes of construction dates are just below videos.
march 4 at COCOA - north FEC.
Brightline Construction: Laying Ties at City Point - March 2022 - YouTube
Nar 12 COCOA cut over.
Brightline Construction CP City Point Cutover - February 2022 - YouTube
Apr 1,2022 Cane creek bridge
Brightline Construction: Crane Creek Bridge Progress - January to March 2022 - YouTube
Apr 9, 2022 Bonaventure
Apr 16, 2022 Loxaharchee tiver draw
April 23, 2022 Brevard county bridges.
Brightline Construction: The 9th Bridge Edition - March/April 2022 - YouTube
Apr 28 th Baca Raton & Aventura stations.
Brightline Boca Raton and Aventura Station Construction Progress April 10, 2022 - YouTube
Mey 1,2022 West highland ave Cocoa
Brightline Construction: West Highland Drive Cut and Throw - May 1, 2022 - YouTube
What is a cut and throw subject of this last link?
blue streak 1What is a cut and throw subject of this last link?
They CUT (sever) the existing track and THROW (reconnect) an end of the active line to the New track. It would be like when a highway lane is blocked and all traffic has to move to an adjacent lane.
In this case, they have built a new section of track and are rerouting traffic onto it and taking the parallel old track out of service for either rebuilding or reconfiguration.
Will this new line connect with existing trackage at Orlando? Will any freight be moved on this line?
May 6th airport to CSX/OUC bridge.
Noticed that some signals are already turned to look along tracks. do not know if that means they are actually active. The turnout from single to 2 main tracks is a #32 which along with one on Amtrak's NEC are highest number in USA. Over 4000 feet long. Starts at time 7:45. Has 5 switch machines,
Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 1 - Orlando International Airport to Innovation Way - YouTube
Brightline runs Bright blue 2 into Orlando station to verify all clearanc specs are met. First time any Brightline train has entered the station.
SEE: Brightline high-speed train arrives at new OIA station for the first time (msn.com)
More construction activities.
HSR Constructors Brightline Phase 2 Construction Sizzle Reel - YouTube
For those who wonder about future freight service by FEC. No freight is planned thru the Orlando airport. If you go to10.40 and play on the following link you will see the connection OUC/CSX Stanton Rail line connection. That connection has been used to transport rail trains for mainly east directions to lay down rail. If and that is a big "IF" FEC gets permission to ever start freight to Orlando the bypass of the airport would be used to reach yard. That may require getting trackage rights on OUC/CSX. Also permission from turnpike authority.
Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 2 - Dallas Blvd to West of Interstate 95 - YouTube
Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Part 3 - Interstate 95 to Cocoa - YouTube
Thanks for answers. Will the 400 foot Y switch with the five switch machines allow passage at 125 mph?
Longer video of 1st test clearance to verify not any clearance problems such as happened to the Miami station.
First Brightline Train at the Orlando Station - May 17, 2022 - YouTube
Here is video dated June 1. All events started May22. FEC shut down over bridge with an AWW of 3 days. This is the procedure of installing the new Bascule over the Loxahatchee River. Old bascule was removed on April 16th previously with temporary span installed until this new Bascule installed. All work in just 5 weeks. Bet Amtrak cannot do that time. Final bridge work connection is not shown in this video.
(1) Brightline Construction: Installing the New Bascule at the Loxahatchee River Drawbridge - YouTube
June 4th release unloading last rail train on the FEC portion of Brightline.
Brightline Construction: Unloading a Rail Train - May 15, 2022 - YouTube
June 9th release for FtPierce and Jensen Beach.
Brightline Construction: Fort Pierce Yard and Jensen Beach - May 8, 2022 - YouTube
June 17 release for june 5 Bonaventure work.
Brightline Construction: North Bonaventure Cut and Throw - June 5, 2022 - YouTube
June 17 trlease with talk about Brightline . Mainly a PR type presentation.
Brightline: A Bright Future - YouTube
June 26 release. Happened earlier in June. Shows the change over of the Turkey Creek bridge old span to new span. Gives both a before cut over and an after cut over.
Brightline Construction: New Turkey Creek Bridge Cut Over - June 2022 - YouTube
July 12th release. A rail train is pushed back thru Cocoa tunnel going toward Orlando. Earlier laid rail not from this rail train allowed rail train to push thru tunnel.. You will note that the 2 GPs power up and smoke as train is pushed up the ramp. First train had about 7.5 miles of new rail. All rail was to all be pulled off rail train to allow rail train to return to factory.
A puzzle. When FEC brought the rail train in it had several Hertzog gondolas carrying ballast. That was a surprise. Is Hertzog short of standard hopper ballast dump cars? Could this possible shortage of dump cars be the reason that Brightline had Canadian ballast brought in by ship? Maybe more delays by CSX PSR?
Brightline Construction: First Rail Train Through The Cocoa Tunnel - July 2022 - YouTube
Missed july 6 release of Barton curve change increasing allowable speeds.
Brightline Construction: Barton Curve Shift - June 18, 2022 - YouTube
Brightline could not get all the ballast by rail so imported some from Canada by ship. The FEC portion of the rail train lead with Hertzog gondolas carrying ballast brings up a question., Is CSX delaying deliveries because of PSR meltdowns so much that Hertzog has run out of available empty ballast hopper dump cars?
Brightline could not wait for rail deliveries of ballast if it wanted to maintain its construction and opening dates. It also has to take time to have the ballast setteled and set to begin service.
Brightline Construction: The International Ballast Edition - YouTube
EDIT: This may be revelant. Have noticed several CSX ballast trains with Hertzog automated dump cars and old CSX manual operate ballast cars. In fact upon reflection the CSX cars might not be ballast cars but coal cars. That observation because could not see heavier balllast loaded to where it could be seen at top of car compared to regular ballast cars.
Maybe they are planning on a stop for the Cruise Terminal.
https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2022/05/26/brightline-land-purchase-could-indicate-future-cocoa-station-down-the-tracks
When Brightline was negotiating ROW with the parallel (Orlando-Cocoa) Beachline Expressway authority, the highway engineer said that his main concern was that Brightline didn't compete with them with a station at Cocoa. I presumed that the agreement would have been conditional on no Cocoa station.
MidlandMikeWhen Brightline was negotiating ROW with the parallel (Orlando-Cocoa) Beachline Expressway authority, the highway engineer said that his main concern was that Brightline didn't compete with them with a station at Cocoa. I presumed that the agreement would have been conditional on no Cocoa station.
...the business implications of a Brevard County Brightline stop could allow for more businesses on the Space Coast to tap into the talent pool in Orlando. “Potential future business in areas such as Orlando will allow us the ability to cast a wider net for job talents to bring here to the Space Coast. It’s something that we’re looking forward to, specifically with the Brightline system,” [Adrian] Kellgren [of a local firm, Kel-Tec] said.
“Potential future business in areas such as Orlando will allow us the ability to cast a wider net for job talents to bring here to the Space Coast. It’s something that we’re looking forward to, specifically with the Brightline system,” [Adrian] Kellgren [of a local firm, Kel-Tec] said.
Remember that the Space Coast TPO had a Brevard County static discussion that culminated in this report from 2016.
https://www.spacecoasttpo.com/home/showpublisheddocument/290/637745645362400000
Presumably the plot thickens because Brevard County doesn't have toll roads by choice, but their mileage of 528 is 'hostage' to tolling in the west for revenue they don't see.
More complete track construction completed. That allows more track to be 2 main tracks. Do not believe this is the HrSR testing site yet. Probably still needs signaling work?
Brightline Construction: Vero Beach, Fort Pierce, Jensen Beach, and Stuart Progress - June 2022 - YouTube
Brightline installs a 5 track signal bridge. Believe it is located just south of Cocoa CP.
Watch: Time-lapse video of signal bridge installment - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)
Caldonian sleeper passengers go no where. At least one passenger got a good nights sleep.
Man wakes up after night on sleeper train to find it never left Glasgow | Scotland | The Guardian
OvermodWhile I understand the desire to maintain toll revenue, I'm not sure that a considerable amount of 'new business' between the Orlando region and Cocoa would actually constitute 'lost revenue'.
You have to consider the source of the comment and the fear highway developers have of HSR competing with them for government money.
A few videos of Brightline 's 79 MPH testing from railway track and structures. Does anyone know if the "off side"secondary gates lowering shown in the first video is according to FRA rules?
Watch: Brightline high-speed testing begins on portion of Orlando line - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)
blue streak 1A few videos of Brightline 's 79 MPH testing from railway track and structures. Does anyone know if the secondary gates lowering shown in the first video is according to FRA rules? Watch: Brightline high-speed testing begins on portion of Orlando line - Railway Track and Structures (rtands.com)
Doubt that the original view of the gates have them set for 79 MPH operation. To my mind, the 'off side' gates should have been fully lowered prior to the train occupying the crossing.
Progress on Aventura and BocaRaton stations. Have to wonder if they are going to be complete by end of year? There is a short follow update for the end of July but not by Roaming.
Brightline Construction: Aventura and Boca Raton Station Progress - June 25, 2022 - YouTube
Innovation way to Cocoa progress report. the construction is getting closer to connecting Orlando to Cocoa. As understood connecting the 2 is waiting for 2 additional rail trains to deliver rail to be installed.
Brightline Construction: Orlando Line Progress - July 2022 - YouTube
Bonaventure CP cutover and track relocation.
Brightline Construction: ATC19 Signal and Double Track Cutover Overview - YouTube
News paper article that Brightline moving start up into 2023. Even private RR constructions can get delayed.
However have not seen an official announcemen from Brightline.
Brightline service through Vero to Orlando pushed back to next year - 32963 Features, 32963 News, All News, Featured News Secondary, News - Vero News
When they had to source ballast from Canada I wondered what else they are having trouble getting.
More on Bonaventure.
Brightline Construction ATC19 Cutover: CP Bonaventure to CP Viera & Bonaventure Siding - July 2022 - YouTube
Aug 19th release.
Brightline Construction: Removing the Pineda North Turnout - ATC19 Cutover July 24, 2022 - YouTube
Nice presentation from FEC
https://youtu.be/OMsV_-6U6xo
The last train load of rail delivered by CSX to Orlando utilities spur. Has started unloading at the west end of track. This load is the last needed of 136 # rail for the project. Includes MIA to Cocoa and Cocoa to Orlando.
Final Rail Train for Brightline's Orlando Expansion - August 2022 - YouTube
Spent a long weekend at Epcot for a destination wedding. Had flown into Sanford airport. On driving back to Sanford on Sunday on 417, crossed under the new Brightline line. An RC Corman self-propelled unit was crossing above as I approached the bridge.
On the flight down, I sat next to a guy who owns a commercial building across the street from the Kissimmee railroad station. He said his retail tenants were excited when Sunrail started up, thinking there'd be much more foot traffic to draw business from. He said it's turned out to be a bust. Hasn't helped at all. Said many times the trains have an engine on each end with one passenger car in between. He's not moved about Brightline. Said people want to drive their cars. Hope he'll see something different with Brightline.
GrampSunrail
So one item that has been lost in the public takeover of commute services from the private railroads is why people drive vs taking the train. It's not that people like their cars better as you surmise. It is because the infrastructure of the automobile makes the choice of the automobile more convienent and offers a faster trip time.
This is why Chicago - Milwaukee is rapidly becomming the most successful Amtrak corridor in terms of ridership and cost recovery. The trip time while slighly slower than car is overcome by the downtown to downtown convienence, cost and time savings of avoiding rush hour traffic & parking fees but most importantly the increasing RT trainset frequencies make the train almost as convienent as taking a car.
Sunrail is just in the startup phase my guess and their trip time with all the stops is probably no where near as convienent as the car, speeds are probably not all that great either. So I would not expect Sunrail to carry a decent load of passengers at this point. Brightline should do a LOT better than Sunrail just based on the for profit business model as well as their higher speed and dare I say they will probably have more train frequencies than Sunrail. So I would not use Sunrail as a predictor of how Brightline will do.
That was his experience and opinion of Sunrail and Brightline, not mine.
CMStPnPThis is why Chicago - Milwaukee is rapidly becomming the most successful Amtrak corridor in terms of ridership and cost recovery. The trip time while slighly slower than car is overcome by the downtown to downtown convienence, cost and time savings of avoiding rush hour traffic & parking fees but most importantly the increasing RT trainset frequencies make the train almost as convienent as taking a car.
At certain times of day and with highway construction, the trains are faster, too.
GrampOn the flight down, I sat next to a guy who owns a commercial building across the street from the Kissimmee railroad station. He said his retail tenants were excited when Sunrail started up, thinking there'd be much more foot traffic to draw business from. He said it's turned out to be a bust. Hasn't helped at all. Said many times the trains have an engine on each end with one passenger car in between. He's not moved about Brightline. Said people want to drive their cars. Hope he'll see something different with Brightline.
Brightline has one major obstacle to mitigate: lack of access to downtown Orlando. In Miami the station is on the north end of town astride the city offices, convenient access to the Miami Metro and people mover, and eventually the station will also be used by Tri-Rail. Thus far there is nothing like that on the horizon for Orlando. Some means of making SunRail and Brightline feeders unto one another is necessary for their respective successes.
Well, having spent a couple days navigating the Disney neighborhood, even at Disney's lean season and Disney having ticked off a large part of their fan base, the number of autos there is astounding. I would not want to live there.
GrampWell, having spent a couple days navigating the Disney neighborhood, even at Disney's lean season and Disney having ticked off a large part of their fan base, the number of autos there is astounding. I would not want to live there.
Here is video of installing southbound CP Cocoa signal bridge. It is amazing how this installation may have no other RR in the USA looks. Especially note the higher speed turnouts. Wonder if FEC anticipates some reduction in running times between MIA ( Hialeah ) and thru COCOA north.
https://youtu.be/ZCYiJtaG2Fk
blue streak 1 Here is video of installing southbound CP Cocoa signal bridge.
Here is video of installing southbound CP Cocoa signal bridge.
Where is the link to the Video?
from the Far East of the Sunset Route
(In the shadow of the Huey P Long bridge)
Orlado's airport terminal C is now open for business. At first mainly for international travelers. Time for Brightline to continue its progress and get service started there.
Automated TSA lanes and an airside Disney Store: Orlando's Terminal C is now open (msn.com)
110 MPH testing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv2U--YK84
Very neat.
FEC now has 32 mile to 2 main track at Cocoa.. Completed Oct 29.
Brightline Construction: Peachtree Street Track Cut and Throw - October 29, 2022 - YouTube
Loxahatchee drawbridge update Oct 23.
Brightline Construction: Loxahatchee River Drawbridge Progress - October 23, 2022 - YouTube
charlie hebdo CMStPnP This is why Chicago - Milwaukee is rapidly becomming the most successful Amtrak corridor in terms of ridership and cost recovery. The trip time while slighly slower than car is overcome by the downtown to downtown convienence, cost and time savings of avoiding rush hour traffic & parking fees but most importantly the increasing RT trainset frequencies make the train almost as convienent as taking a car. At certain times of day and with highway construction, the trains are faster, too.
CMStPnP This is why Chicago - Milwaukee is rapidly becomming the most successful Amtrak corridor in terms of ridership and cost recovery. The trip time while slighly slower than car is overcome by the downtown to downtown convienence, cost and time savings of avoiding rush hour traffic & parking fees but most importantly the increasing RT trainset frequencies make the train almost as convienent as taking a car.
Even when Joe Lunchpail gets in the way?
n012944Even when Joe Lunchpail gets in the way?
It's not his fault its the "Metra Express" and Metras operational procedures which have largely not changed since inheritance from the private railroads. Though dare I say it, if the Milwaukee Road was still in charge on that corridor of the Commute Trains the Chicago to Milwaukee Trains would always arrive on time to the minute (not to Amtraks 15 min padded min). We would be back to the true definition of ON TIME arrival vs the Lets Pretend.
More info on the Oct 29 cut over just south of Cocoa that became 32 miles of 2 main tracks plus several miles of 3 and 4 tracks & Cocoa yard lead..
(1) Brightline Construction: Installing the Cocoa Yard Lead South Turnout - October 2022 - YouTube
I found it odd that the signal masts we after the switch points. I thought the switch would be past the signals.
rdamonI found it odd that the signal masts we after the switch points. I thought the switch would be past the signals.
I concur in your surprise. The narrator stated that the signals were Intermediates, not Absolutes. If that is the case I suspect the switch will be an electric locked hand throw switch, not a power operated switch.
More on the new stations between Palm Beach and MIA.
(1) Brightline Construction: Progress on the New Aventura and Boca Raton Stations - November 2022 - YouTube
BaltACD rdamon I found it odd that the signal masts we after the switch points. I thought the switch would be past the signals. I concur in your surprise. The narrator stated that the signals were Intermediates, not Absolutes. If that is the case I suspect the switch will be an electric locked hand throw switch, not a power operated switch.
rdamon I found it odd that the signal masts we after the switch points. I thought the switch would be past the signals.
Makes sense. It does not look like they are adding any signals on the north end that is on the VRF camera.
It looks to me as if the northbound signals are right at the switch points with the indicator for entry into the siding only for clearance. If it were a power switch it would have to be interlocked with that mandatory derail; I'd suspect that (as noted) both the switch and derail will be manually actuated in use... going and coming.
If it's just an automatic signal (intermediate), then you want the switch points before. You enter the main and prety much instantly get signal indication - limits time you spend delayed in block.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Have a look at this and see 4:27. I thought there would be something more secure with Brightline regarding crossings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQoJs4hoyM
54light15Have a look at this and see 4:27. I thought there would be something more secure with Brightline regarding crossings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQoJs4hoyM
What more do expect beyond 4 quadrant gates? Stupid is as Stupid does.
The only thing that I would consider is safety cables in addition to the crossing gates similar to those used by the City of Chicago on vertical lift and single-leaf bascule bridges.
Nice footage of thermite welding
Brightline management specifically mentioned Dallas to Houston as an expansion corridor before the whole Texas Central debacle. You can probably still Google those comments from Brightline.
In regards to Dallas to San Antonio. A while back the state floated an idea to relocate the UP Main to West of the congested areas along much of Austin to San Antonio if the state could in return have the existing rail for just passenger service. UP went along and then eventually gave up waiting on the state to put a plan out there. So I think there is still hope with the corridor.
Additionally Austin to Houston as well. Which does not exist currently but I suspect the State is also interested in. Just keep hearing loose comments about it here and there.
CSSHEGEWISCHThe only thing that I would consider is safety cables in addition to the crossing gates similar to those used by the City of Chicago on vertical lift and single-leaf bascule bridges.
Cane creek second track bridge has all spans installed. However ballast trough still remains to be constructed.
Brightline Construction Bridge Edition: Installing the Final Span at Crane Creek - November 2022 - YouTube
another bridge last span, Bright line gets closing the gaps mainly over bridges. Now does brightline have all the parts for signaling to begin testing from PALM BEACH - Cocoa to 110 MPH. Eau Gallie river.
Brightline Construction Bridge Edition: Final Girder Installation at the Eau Gallie River - YouTube
Now Sebastion river bridge last girder. Three quick ones.
Brightline Construction Bridge Edition: Sebastian River Final Girder Installation - November 2022 - YouTube
Make that four! A little behind the other three.
Frontenac 2 main tracking to Cocoa CP. This gived FEC 2 main tracks from Titusville to past COCOA. Will allow additional fexibility at Cocoa for Brightline especially when 2 main tracks extended to Orlando sometime in the future.
Brightline Construction: The Completed Frontenac Improvement Project Full Flight Overview - YouTube
Loxahatchee River draw bridge (single leaf bascule 2 main tracks ) has the last bridge span now in place. Track work already has track being put down on the second span of the bridge.
Brightline Construction Bridge Edition: Loxahatchee River Drawbridge - December 20, 2022 - YouTube
now some 24 miles of 2 main tracks from CP Cocoa to CP Bonaventure.
Brightline Construction: CP Cocoa to CP Bonaventure Complete Overview - YouTube
Here is a cliff notes of the progress thru the year 2022.
Brightline Construction: 2022 Year in Review - YouTube
Is Brightline profitable yet? I heard they are on track with internal projections still but not sure what that means specifically and sounds like a Public Affairs placebo. A large chunk of the future of high speed rail and near high speed rail ever reaching the status of profit making venture hinges on the performance of this one entity. The sooner they are profitable the faster the expansion will be and the more competitors that will attempt to enter the field......I hope.
Maybe someday we might see one of the large Class I railroads reconsider the market?
IMO Brightline will be sucessful once we hear the phrase from the public and POLs . "Why can't Amtrak be more like Brightline?" " You need to make Amtrak more like Brightline "
Most of the 'profitability' is synergy with the reql-estate developments, which won't be built out until the high-speed corridor proves itself. The PUDs need to be developed, then populated, before the traffic patterns for increased use of the trains will come.
Is Brightline unionized? I know that they took a long strike in the 60's and thought they went non-union. Their operating costs (wages) might be much lower than Amtrak
Electroliner 1935Is Brightline unionized?
blue streak 1 IMO Brightline will be sucessful once we hear the phrase from the public and POLs . "Why can't Amtrak be more like Brightline?" " You need to make Amtrak more like Brightline "
Just because people might like Brightline better than Amtrak, does not necessarily mean that Brightline will be able to cover their costs or be profitable. Its owned by a hedge fund. Once the real estate is developed, the rail side will be spun-off.
When I arrived in West Palm Beach six years ago in support of the program downtown was a place that existed with "no apparent reason to visit" as one coworker shared. As I prepared to leave upon retirement this was the view from my living room. Just about every nonpublic building over five stories was not there six years ago and more are on the way:
Brightline produced video of the Orlando station.
First Look Inside Brightline Orlando Station - YouTube
Final beam installed on Turkey Creek bridge. This is the last beam for all bridges to get 2 main tracks from Palm Beach to Cocoa. Still work to get rail installed on bridge..
Brightline Construction: Final Girder Installation at Turkey Creek - January 20, 2023 - YouTube
Orlando to Innovation way almost complete except for the removal of the OUC RR connection and subsequent landscapting.
Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Orlando International Airport to Innovation Way - January 2023 - YouTube
Second section update Dallas Blvd to just east of St Johns river.
Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Dallas Blvd to the Saint Johns River - January 2023 - YouTube
Saint Johns river / I95 to CP Cocoa. Seems to be waiting for ballast installed and then surfacing.
Brightline Orlando Line Construction: Interstate 95 to CP Cocoa - January 2023 - YouTube
New concrete mix with Brigtline on RR bridges/
Brightline Construction: Ultra High Performance Concrete on the Sebastian River Bridge - YouTube
Last train set delivered to Orlando. Also a spare loco.
Delivering Brightline's Bright Orange 2 Train to Orlando - February 18, 2023 - YouTube
The only single track bridge at the St.Lucie river is getting some rehab. However it will remain a single track bridge at present. A new 2 main track bridge is evidently some time in the future.
Brightline Construction: St. Lucie River Drawbridge - February 2023 - YouTube
Brightline West just got rail labor union agreement for running the Las Vegas route.
https://news3lv.com/news/local/union-contracts-signed-for-las-vegas-to-california-high-speed-rail-project-brighline-west-rail-labor-coalition-southern-nevada
blue streak 1 Last train set delivered to Orlando. Also a spare loco. Delivering Brightline's Bright Orange 2 Train to Orlando - February 18, 2023 - YouTube
Roaming railfan's video of first 125 MPH trips and snipit of one 130 MPH run.
First 125mph Brightline Test Train on the Orlando Line - YouTube
Boaters vs. Brightline, fighting to divvy up time getting over and under one bridge
https://cbs12.com/news/local/boaters-train-rail-brightline-river-bridge-channel-st-lucie-stuart-ocean-rep-brian-mast
"Water has the right of way. That is a fact,” Mast said, calling for the Coast Guard to respect a rule also used in other parts of the country. Simply put, the water was there before trains, so the water has right-of-way. He added that on land, there were trains before roads, so trains have the right-of-way.
On the Chicago River, the movable bridges are not manned on a full-time basis. Per agreement with the Coast Guard, the City of Chicago sets specific hours for when the bridges may be raised. Three crews of roving bridgetenders leapfrog from bridge to bridge to stay ahead of the collection of masted vessels on the river.
rdamon Boaters vs. Brightline, fighting to divvy up time getting over and under one bridge https://cbs12.com/news/local/boaters-train-rail-brightline-river-bridge-channel-st-lucie-stuart-ocean-rep-brian-mast "Water has the right of way. That is a fact,” Mast said, calling for the Coast Guard to respect a rule also used in other parts of the country. Simply put, the water was there before trains, so the water has right-of-way. He added that on land, there were trains before roads, so trains have the right-of-way.
Probably should have looked at the date on this ... it was 6/22 - popped to the top of my read list somehow.
Sorry
The comments page:
https://www.regulations.gov/document/USCG-2022-0222-0001/comment
Workin' at the Train Wash ...
blue streak 1 Roaming railfan's video of first 125 MPH trips and snipit of one 130 MPH run. First 125mph Brightline Test Train on the Orlando Line - YouTube
Did Brightline just change their speed limits? Thought I heard a Brightline PR person state the speed limit on the Orlando line would now be 125 mph and the speed limit on the coast line down to Miami would be 110 mph. I always thought it was 110 mph for the Orlando line and 80 mph for the coast line.
I have always heard 125 & 110 mph. A number of earlier posts are about 110mph testing on the existing Coast line.
The whole rationale for building the Orlando extension with no grade crossings was to get the 125mph rating.
110 on the line south of Cocoa is the maximum permissible with grade crossings -- and that's quad-gated with long actuation, medians, etc. I do not know where the permanent slower sections and restrictions are, but it shouldn't be difficult to find them.
OvermodThe whole rationale for building the Orlando extension with no grade crossings was to get the 125mph rating. 110 on the line south of Cocoa is the maximum permissible with grade crossings -- and that's quad-gated with long actuation, medians, etc.
110 on the line south of Cocoa is the maximum permissible with grade crossings -- and that's quad-gated with long actuation, medians, etc.
To what extent are the speed restrictions based on risk assessments vs. political considerations?
PJS1To what extent are the speed restrictions based on risk assessments vs. political considerations?
This is different from the actual speed that Brightline trains will operate day to day. The concerns you mention may qualify as reasons to limit speed under Federal law, for example if there is a pattern of grade-crossing accidents or trespasser suicide in certain areas. I would not be surprised to see speeds voluntarily reduced in certain areas, particularly toward the south end of the FEC corridor, for political-favor reasons; there is relatively little actual need for blistering speed until the service 'establishes itself' between major endpoints.
I do not know if the Jacksonville extension, if achieved, will be 110mph standard, nor do I know if the proposed extension west of Orlando to the west-coast points of interest would be 125, 110, or slower.
One of the videos noted that in Stuart there will be reduced speeds for the drawbridge and sharper curves.
Not too surprising about those restrictions. Drawbridges of all types just about everywhere have speed restrictions because of the gap in the rails on each end of the span.
CSSHEGEWISCHNot too surprising about those restrictions. Drawbridges of all types just about everywhere have speed restrictions because of the gap in the rails on each end of the span.
https://www.railwayage.com/mw/movable-bridge-best-practices/
Orlando Station Unveiling
Orlando Basecamp
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/newswire/2023/04/20/brightline-tickets-orlando-miami-florida-trains-passenger-rail-schedule-cost/70123580007/
"Tickets will go on sale in May for Brightline's new up-to-125 mph rail service linking Orlando with South Florida, with trains carrying up to 240 passengers each.
One-way fare ticket prices will start at $79 and $149 for premium, which includes a lounge, complimentary meals and priority boarding. One-way bundles for families of four will be available for less than $199, Brightline President Patrick Goddard said."
Quick search online showed advance fares on Delta and American at $114 for ORD->MIA one-way
rdamonQuick search online showed advance fares on Delta and American at $114 for ORD->MIA one-way
ORD = Chicago O'Hare. Did you mean MCO = Orlando ?
MidlandMike rdamon Quick search online showed advance fares on Delta and American at $114 for ORD->MIA one-way ORD = Chicago O'Hare. Did you mean MCO = Orlando ?
rdamon Quick search online showed advance fares on Delta and American at $114 for ORD->MIA one-way
Thanks, that what I get for trying to multitask at my age.
I hesitate to buy a ticket. Too much depends on final FRA appproval on the still to be completed FEC portions of 110 MPH running. It could come quickly once the final bridge connections are made or very drawn out. No more test have happened on Cocoa - Orlando so that may be finalized.
If have a ticket for a planned opening day and Brightlie starts early will they still allow me to transfer ticket to on the earlier train? On the other hand if start up is delayed and other persons guessed correct day then out of luck as well.
blue streak 1 I hesitate to buy a ticket. Too much depends on final FRA appproval on the still to be completed FEC portions of 110 MPH running.
I am waiting until September or October to give it a go. I plan to fly to Miami, and ride roundtrip to Orlando and back in a day. Just before the pandemic I rode the train from Miami to West Palm Beach and back. I booked a premium seat; it was worth the extra money.
PJS1 blue streak 1 I hesitate to buy a ticket. Too much depends on final FRA appproval on the still to be completed FEC portions of 110 MPH running. I am waiting until September or October to give it a go. I plan to fly to Miami, and ride roundtrip to Orlando and back in a day. Just before the pandemic I rode the train from Miami to West Palm Beach and back. I booked a premium seat; it was worth the extra money.
Sounds fun!
The whole 170-mile route to Orlando was complete by June 21, and service is expected to commence some time this summer.
Overmod The whole 170-mile route to Orlando was complete by June 21, and service is expected to commence some time this summer.
It says Sept 1, service starts on the below link.
https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/brightlines-5b-orlando-florida-extension-complete/653775/
Note: The new estimated cost of California HSR between LA and SFO is now at..........wait for it..................$128 Billion. Not too shabby, I think if they put their minds to it, California can easily drive that price tag over $200 Billion.
New Stations announced in Stuart and Cocoa Florida
The Cocoa station would be good for cruise connections at the port, maybe eliminate some bus traffic from MCO.
It would be great to see a station at the Melbourne Airport to give some flight options into Florida.
rdamonNew Stations announced in Stuart and Cocoa Florida The Cocoa station would be good for cruise connections at the port, maybe eliminate some bus traffic from MCO.
Given that they bought the land awhile back, they must have had plans for this.
Makes sense if they expand to Jacksonville.
rdamon Given that they bought the land awhile back, they must have had plans for this. Makes sense if they expand to Jacksonville.
Plenty of room on the city owned land to the south to add a station and a crossover back to the FEC track.
It will be interesting to see how this works out and who gets upset.
D.Carleton rdamon Given that they bought the land awhile back, they must have had plans for this. Makes sense if they expand to Jacksonville. The property in Cocoa is after the split off the mainline so the location is not conducive for a stop for Jax service. Another oddity, they had agreed early on NOT to build a station in Cocoa per agreement with the Central Florida Expressway Authority so as not to negatively affect car counts ($$$$) on the parallel Beachline Expressway. So will this station be laid out in such a way as to attract non-drivers?
The property in Cocoa is after the split off the mainline so the location is not conducive for a stop for Jax service. Another oddity, they had agreed early on NOT to build a station in Cocoa per agreement with the Central Florida Expressway Authority so as not to negatively affect car counts ($$$$) on the parallel Beachline Expressway. So will this station be laid out in such a way as to attract non-drivers?
I thought the photo of the station area showed the junction.
I also remember the Expressway's stipulation against a Cocoa station, but later when I looked for it I could no longer find mention of it. I wonder if it might have been dropped because of possible pushback from Cocoa not wanting to be left out.
Since Cocoa is a wye point please explasin how there can be a single station that would serve MIA - JAX, MIA - MCO, and MCO - JAX
There is almost 3/4 of a mile between Michigan Road and the Split. The north parcel is owned by Brightline, the south by the city.
Currently they run MIA to MCO trains, with plans to TPA.
Cocoa - JAX or MIA JAX trains are an option with JAX to MCO requiring a train change or a change of direction.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.