Auto Train review from Motor Week perspective

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Auto Train review from Motor Week perspective
Posted by Gramp on Saturday, December 7, 2019 1:01 PM

Millions of highway miles saved.
https://youtu.be/9eo7XtQCags

 

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Posted by 243129 on Saturday, December 7, 2019 1:12 PM

The northeast would have been better served had the train been operated out of Newburgh N.Y. area at the confluence of Interstates 84 & 87. The worst part of the drive is between the north and northeast and Lorton VA.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:13 PM

Interesting. I wonder, are there showers in the coaches? A lady said that there are showers thorughout the train.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:35 PM

243129
The northeast would have been better served had the train been operated out of Newburgh N.Y. area at the confluence of Interstates 84 & 87.

But Holy Hanna, how would you get it there?  Up the Lehigh Line to some connection to the ex-West Shore, which is hundreds of feet below 84 in a restricted corridor all the way to north of the bridge?  Around all the CSX freight traffic?

Situation even worse on the east side, where yarding a train that length to get the cars off would be an amazing exercise, let alone staging the vehicle traffic in a way that facilitates drive-off.

I do thoroughly agree that a 'Northeast Extension' version of the Auto-Train would be a sensible and intelligent thing, but I think we need a better 'gathering place' analogous to what Lorton is.  I know Suffern/Mahwah is in a similar kind of hole relative to major roads, and the real estate values have blown out of sight since 287 was finished, but perhaps somewhere between there and the Moodna restriction might be a sensible destination.  This might be more than usually facilitated if the consist could be made NEC-compatible as far as Secaucus (I won't call it by its political name) where there is a transfer to the ex-EL trackage going northeast.

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Posted by 243129 on Saturday, December 7, 2019 4:51 PM

Overmod
But Holy Hanna, how would you get it there?

I stated "Newburgh area", not knowing the track 'geography', in an effort to eliminate the miserable drive from the north and northeast. I can take the AutoTrain for free but do not. By the time I get to Lorton the worst part of the drive is over.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, December 7, 2019 9:46 PM

You can take it free, including the auto-hauling component? If so, that's a nice perk, IMO.

I agree though; the worst part of the drive is certainly north of Lorton.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 7, 2019 10:09 PM

Lithonia Operator
You can take it free, including the auto-hauling component? If so, that's a nice perk, IMO.

I agree though; the worst part of the drive is certainly north of Lorton.

Also the most expensive part of the drive.

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 10:18 AM

Deggesty
 Interesting. I wonder, are there showers in the coaches? A lady said that there are showers thorughout the train. 

I don't believe the coaches have showers.  I have never seen them on the Superliner coaches that I have ridden on the Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, etc.   

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 11:06 AM
As per the September 2019 Amtrak Monthly Performance Report, in FY19 the Auto Train lost $6.7 million before depreciation, interest, and miscellaneous items.  In 2018 the loss was $15.6 million; in 2017 it was $4.5 million.
 
The average operating subsidy per rider in FY19 was approximately $28 compared to $69 in 2018 and $20 in 2017.
 
The average operating subsidy per long-distance rider in FY19 was $104.  In 2018 it was $120; in 2017 it was $102. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 11:28 AM

They had to terminal the Auto-Train in Lorton.  It wouldn't fit through the tunnels in DC or Baltimore.  Going further north was out of the question.

All things being perfect a terminal in the Hackensack Meadows right across from New York City would have been ideal.  Considering the population density there imagine the size of the potential customer pool!

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:45 PM

PJS1

 

 
Deggesty
 Interesting. I wonder, are there showers in the coaches? A lady said that there are showers thorughout the train. 

 

I don't believe the coaches have showers.  If they do they would be the only Superliner coaches with showers.  

 

I have the impression that the perspn who mentioned "showers throughout the train" has not ridden caoch on the train--if that person has ridden Autotrain at all. and extrapolatted the presence of a shower for roomette passengers to also having showers for coach passengers.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:49 PM

Flintlock76
All things being perfect a terminal in the Hackensack Meadows right across from New York City would have been ideal. Considering the population density there imagine the size of the potential customer pool!

You have to stop using paraquat-laced sinsy if you're going to keep smoking blunts that size.

You could not possibly find a worse place to terminate or originate a practical Auto-Train than that.  Right in the middle of a protected wetland, served by a network of roads already renowned for congestion, over convoluted rail routes subject to relatively heavy traffic (with the NEC not available either for your train or for any particularly heavy or stacked freight).  None of the existing passenger services, the H&M/PATH, the bus service or commuter links through Secaucus do you any good, because you're arriving and departing in a way that mass transit can't use.

We can get into issues of precisely how much crime and panhandling would be attracted to the environs of the site, who would improve the local road access, etc. after that, as soon as I stop laughing.

Now, it is true that you might be able to get some of the Meadows engine house property rather cheaply ... I think at least some of the necessary vast environmental remediation has been done ... and railfans would just love being in there while waiting for their cars to be loaded or unloaded.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:07 PM

Jeez Mod-man, maybe YOU should try some of those blunts, you've got a nasty streak goin' today!   Angry

Look, I'm referring to back when the Auto-Train was first established, back in the '70s.  There's plenty of dry land around the periphery of the Meadows where a facility could have been established.  At lot of those peripheral areas have been developed since that time, warehouses, truck terminals, apartments, you name it, it's been done.

Traffic congestion?  Tell me about Northern Virginia close to the DC area where Lorton is, I'll give you congestion brother!  I avoid that area like the plague!

Traffic flow to a Meadowlands terminal could have been planned for and figured out depending on the terminal location. It wouldn't have been rocket science, and with the increased passenger traffic could have been paid for, if not overnight, then within a reasonable time.  Look at all the people in the greater New York area who consider Florida the Promised Land and make regular pilgrimages thereto.

But, as I said,  it wasn't do-able due to those aforementioned tunnels.  Any discussions on our part otherwise are essentially worthless hot air. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, December 8, 2019 10:48 PM

Gramp
Millions of highway miles saved.

https://youtu.be/9eo7XtQCags

+hundreds of hiway deaths over the years of Auto-Train operation.

Auto-Train seemed to have more 'medical emergency' stops than any of the Amtrak trains that operated over the territories I supervised.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, December 8, 2019 11:00 PM

BaltACD

Auto-Train seemed to have more 'medical emergency' stops than any of the Amtrak trains that operated over the territories I supervised.

More people on board, and I'll bet a good chunk of them are elderly.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 9, 2019 1:30 AM

The original Auto-Train lived and died before the Amtrak ownership and then the Chase wreck fallout made a high-speed freight corridor parallel to the actual NEC practical.  That routing is what an 'extended' original purple people pleaser should have taken, not involving going through Ivy City or DC at all as there was no point in handling any general passengers.  Alas! I well remember the sleepy wonder that was the B&O/Reading/CNJ approach in those years, and I don't think I'd give those strings of carriers much time before they tried straying from the straight and narrow...

Now, just as Iselin was a nifty place to plot satellite office complexes, I have to wonder if there is some spot in east Jersey that would tie into the 287/GSP/Turnpike complex while it was still comparatively open and new, especially looking south.  Then if demand ... and track improvement ... warranted you could go further north.  But either way north of at least Ridgefield Park (and neither the Suskie or the Shore are really optimized for stops, despite all that unused 4-track ROW and space going up through Hackensack at 46 and 80 -- note what a pain it would be to have THAT be your terminal connectivity today!) or further east.  And I can tell you right now what I think it could have been, although the precise years might not quite line up for cause and effect: run it either by original Lackawanna or the proposed Garrett Mountain track to the Cutoff, give them a scenic pass through the Watchungs, and find a logical gathering place to the west.  Remember that only temporary short-term parking would be needed, too.  Preserves the Cutoff in the EL-Dereco priorities over the Graham Line and at least theoretically opens up some nifty thoughts about where the north end of an auto service might ultimately be run.

Of course once the long girder bridges across 80 at Fairfield were taken down, that would have been shot in the head.  Would any of the other railroads into west Jersey (as opposed to north on the Shore as Joe would likely route it, or via EL to Suffern and beyond) make better sense in those evil pre-Staggers days?

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Posted by n012944 on Monday, December 9, 2019 4:55 AM

The current Auto Train schedule allows just a shade over 7 hours to turn the equipment on either end.  That schedule permits Amtrak to only need two sets of equipment, plus spares.  Extending the train farther north would require at least one extra set of equipment to make the longer schedule work.  Would Amtrak be able to command enough of a higher ticket price with the new location over what it charges now to cover the increased cost of the extra equipment?  I doubt it.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 9, 2019 7:04 AM

SD70Dude
 
BaltACD

Auto-Train seemed to have more 'medical emergency' stops than any of the Amtrak trains that operated over the territories I supervised. 

More people on board, and I'll bet a good chunk of them are elderly.

Correct - and those medical emergencies, had they happened while the individuals were driving on I-95, would likely have ended in some form of automobile incident.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 9, 2019 8:50 AM

Now you're thinkin' about how to tie into that NYC marketplace Mod-man, I like those suggestions!

The thing is, I can't come up with any better ones.  Oh well.  Embarrassed

As I said before, it's all just speculation, like re-fighting Civil War battles and just as productive.

By the way, I remember billboard ads down in Florida in 1975 for the old Auto-Train.  Very blunt and to the point...

"Dreading that dreary drive North?  Take the Auto-Train!"

Remember, back in 1975 Route 95 wasn't completed yet.  There were still a lot of places where drivers heading south (or north) had to get off and drive on old US 1.  Very tedious, and a bit of a culture shock for Yankees! 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 9, 2019 1:26 PM

Flintlock76
Now you're thinkin' about how to tie into that NYC marketplace Mod-man, I like those suggestions! 

The thing is, I can't come up with any better ones.  Oh well.  Embarrassed 

As I said before, it's all just speculation, like re-fighting Civil War battles and just as productive. 

By the way, I remember billboard ads down in Florida in 1975 for the old Auto-Train.  Very blunt and to the point... 

"Dreading that dreary drive North?  Take the Auto-Train!" 

Remember, back in 1975 Route 95 wasn't completed yet.  There were still a lot of places where drivers heading south (or north) had to get off and drive on old US 1.  Very tedious, and a bit of a culture shock for Yankees! 

There are still a few Auto-Train billboards on I-95.  Not as many as for 'South of the Border', but still a few.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, December 9, 2019 1:51 PM

I'll wait for Doug DeMuro's review.

 

Thhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssssssssss is the Amtrak Autotrain! 

 The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, December 9, 2019 2:14 PM

Flintlock76
Now you're thinkin' about how to tie into that NYC marketplace Mod-man, I like those suggestions!

The original founder of Auto-Train probably choose Lorton, Va for several reasons:

1. Back then the land was cheap in that suburb.

2. It broadened his market base by allowing a short drive from the major cities North of there.    Short drive was of course defined in how long it took to drive the distance in 1971.   He choose Louisville, KY over Chicago, IL for similar reasons.

3. I suspect that having a what???....... 50 car passenger train traverse the NEC, might be problematic at it's slower speed vs the rest of the corridor traffic.    Not sure if Amtrak would be happy with that idea these days.   Also, have no idea on how slow it has to go to use the crossovers with the auto racks on the back but I suspect switching tracks or pulling over that monster onto a siding is slower with Auto-Train than it is with a regular passenger train.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 9, 2019 2:26 PM

Let me see, a drive from New York to the DC area in 1971, barring any incidents / accidents on the NJ Turnpike would have taken around four hours, give-or-take.  I was there, I know.  (Gee, I feel like Dave Klepper!  What a rush!)

Now?  Again with no NJ Turnpike issues or DC traffic issues you have to figure on five or six hours.  You might  still make it in four with ideal conditions but I wouldn't bet on it.  Let me put it this way, the fastest I've ever driven from North Jersey to my current home in the Richmond VA area (360 miles) is five and a half hours.  25 years ago, conditions were perfect and I've never been able to duplicate the run. 

I forgot the overhead catenary on the NEC, shame on me.  I don't think those Auto-Rack cars would fit under it, but I could be wrong.  Wouldn't surprise me if I was.

A 50 car Auto-Train?  Last time I saw one and was able to count the cars the consist was 40 cars.  I see your point with switches and crossovers but there's plenty of them on the way from Lorton to Florida.  They manage. 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, December 9, 2019 2:30 PM

Flintlock76
I forgot the overhead catenary on the NEC, shame on me. I don't think those Auto-Rack cars would fit under it, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if I was.

Yes and no.  Some places autoracks fit (at least our regular generic freight autoracks), other places they don't.   Autoracks normally use the NEC to get to Baltimore and Wilmington from Perryville daily.

 The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 9, 2019 2:34 PM

Thanks Zug!  Good to know!

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 9, 2019 5:16 PM

I don't see any problem with Auto Train's racks running from Ivy City up to Kearny or wherever they would diverge from the electrified ex-PRR.  Dome restrictions are not the same thing, and I seem to remember plenty of traffic at the GM plant near Bayway or wherever it was.  Might have been fun to buy a couple of E44s and paint 'em purple.  You'd get at least the speed possible further south; we could ask Joe what the fastest speed of private equipment like that would be, or Jack Neiss or Noel Weaver who would have some thoughts.  The big problem of slack management is of much less importance on the NEC, and of course the U36Bs could hustle as much as necessary. The issue collapses, as originally indicated, to how you get the train ON the PW&B in the first place.

This was in the days nothing but Metroliners ran much above 80mph anywhere, and 70mph freight was blistering. One long consist that could easily be scheduled off-peak for any commuter district would not have been tough to accommodate.

I think I have told the story of riding the Metroliner in 1969. My father dropped us off about 15 minutes to train time (we were a bit late) and took off to drive to Washington.  We ran down, frequently peaking at 100mph... only to discover my father standing on the platform, having driven to Silver Spring, picked up our hosts in DC, driven to the station and parked in the meantime.  You could not do that today, but he certainly did it then, and in a '66 Lincoln to boot.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, December 9, 2019 8:05 PM

Mike weighs in :


Auto Train


 
 
Eugene Garfield: People Making Business a Success  (Business in Broward magazine, September 1992)
 
In 1969 rail passenger service in the United States was dying. It took a young entrepreneur to bring it back to life. 
 
"Everybody who was in the business was trying to get out of it," Eugene Garfield recalled. "They couldn't make money on passenger service. They were concentrating more on freight business because the percentage of profit was much higher and the liabilities were less. It was easier running a freight railroad." 
 
He questioned why: "Is it because nobody wants to get on a train again? Is this contrived that they are doing one kind of business and not another? Perhaps. Maybe it's a good management decision--for them. But, maybe it's also a good management decision for someone else, brand new, unencumbered by the old problems, to step in and fill a void. Is there a market there? If so, how do you grab onto it and make it go? How do you make the public aware that this is something they really need?" 
 
"It was clear to me that there is a certain romance, that people had a certain feeling for trains. There were very good reasons why a person might not want to take a train at that time; trains were getting dirtier, were running later and the equipment was getting older. So, the reasons were provided for the traveling public to go away from the trains," said Garfield. 
 
"It was getting so bad that a person could drive to their destination quicker than they could take a train. "I knew that the American public had a love affair with their automobiles. Everybody loves a car and enjoys driving. But I also felt that they loved trains. I also knew, being a Floridian, that there were a lot of people taking a three day drive to get where they wanted to go in South Florida. So, I thought, why not put them (and their cars) on an auto train?" 
 
Garfield wanted to design a train that would carry automobiles on the same train as passengers. "The idea was simply to get your car to your destination without driving. while having a good, safe trip. It could be presented as an 'overland cruise.' The passengers could get on late in the afternoon in Washington D.C., enjoy the train ride overnight, and in the morning wake up in Central Florida. Instead of a three-day drive they would have a short drive to their destination, whether it was to the west coast, east coast or Miami." 
 
HOW DO YOU FINANCE A RAILROAD? 
 
Garfield was a young man just coming out of government service, without money or credit. He was trying to start the first railroad to be formed in this country in 50 years, when every major railroad was in financial trouble. The only thing he had was an idea, so he drew up the papers and filed the charter for the Auto-Train Corporation. 
 
"I capitalized the company with $65, but determined we needed more than that so I structured a business plan to raise $335,000, the initial funding for a two year budget," he said. "That was just enough to get the idea going, to negotiate with the railroads, determine where the terminals were going to be and what kind of equipment was going to be used." 
 
"I also knew that the heart of the passenger operation had to be something special; something different--like the double decker, full dome cars that ran on the Santa Fe Railroad out west. So, I called the president of the Santa Fe Railroad and arranged a meeting. After a lengthy discussion about my plans for the Auto-Train, he told me that his dome cars were $1 million each! He would sell me 12 cars for cash. 
 
"We talked and got along quite well because he was also a passenger railroad buff. Finally, I told him I couldn't afford a million dollars, but I had to have those cars; if I didn't get them, we had no service. He asked me how much I could afford and I told him $180,000 each. Finally. he agreed I could have the cars for $180,000 and I was delighted. But, I didn't have $180,000 and I told him I would pay it when my public offering was completed, in a couple of months. He was a little shocked that I wanted him to hold the cars for two or three months, but agreed to hold them with a deposit, which we negotiated at $5,000. I wrote out the check, and as we were leaving, I asked him for one more favor: 'Will you hold the check until I get back to Washington so I can cover it?'" 
 
Luck was riding the rails with the young entrepreneur. The Auto-Train had a very successful offering and Garfield wired the money to the Santa Fe Railroad for the twelve passenger cars that formed the basis for the passenger fleet, with additions from the California Zephyr and Denver Zephyr. Five new locomotives were purchased from General Electric. 
 
The auto carriers posed yet another problem. They had to be coupled to the passenger cars, being on the same train. Garfield wanted fully enclosed cars, with the end doors open while the trains were coupled so you could drive through from car to car. That would save time in loading and unloading. "Everybody told me no such thing existed, but I finally found them in Canada at the Canadian National Railway, and purchased them for $25,000 each. 
 
"My next problem was an engineering dilemma--how to convert these auto freight carriers to a passenger train and have a smooth ride. So, he called George Green, president of the Pullman Company, and asked him to figure out a way to take freight trucks on a bi-level auto carrier and put passenger trucks under them so that the automobiles have a smooth ride. "I thought he was going to tell me that was impossible, but he told me he could do it, and he did. He later became a member of my board of directors." 
 
MARKETING THE AUTO-TRAIN 
 
The advertising agency did not have any research to show where the Auto-Train's marketing area was, since no one had ever done it before. "We were brand new. We were like a new piece of canvas. There was nothing on that canvas before so no one could say how the painting was going to come out, because I didn't know. I thought it, felt it and I lived it and it evolved, just as a painting evolves." 
 
The Auto-Train had a $20,000 advertising budget for the first year. The advertising agency wondered how they would present it. "They didn't have any pictures--it was a new concept. They recommended a full page advertisement in the New York Times at a cost of $17,000--nearly my whole year's budget. When I protested, they said, 'you run your railroad, we'll sell your tickets,' and that hit a note," said Garfield. "I thought, 'Let someone who's an expert in a particular area do their business; let them alone.' So, I said, 'go ahead.' They produced an exciting ad with illustrations that explained the whole concept. 
 
"The ad ran on a Monday morning. I had four people on the phones ready to take the calls. My wife, my best friend, his wife and another friend. I was standing behind them, pacing the floor. At eight o'clock every eye was fixed on the phones to see if the buttons would light up. At 8:01 a.m. all four lights on every phone simultaneously lit up. And they never went out all day long. The telephone company called and said we were backing up their system and told me we had to put in 10 more lines right away. The New York Times called and said people were calling them, complaining because they couldn't get through and wanted to book a reservation." 
 
The ad ran in October and the first train ran two months later. From that first ad, the Auto-Train was sold out for a year. "We had to put an ad in the New York Times apologizing for people not being able to get through to us on the telephone," said Garfield. 
 
Garfield captured the eye of the media because of his non-railroad background and because the Auto-Train was a passenger railroad. The Pennsylvania Railroad company had just declared bankruptcy. "Time and time again people said it would never work, we would never make a profit; passenger railroads just do not make money," said Garfield. Yet, here was this crazy young guy thinking he could make money in the passenger business. 
 
"I had always dreamed of this, but I didn't realize the magnitude of what I had accomplished. I issued my first quarterly report and we had made money; in fact, the earnings were very good! Then, the reporters started coming. When my secretary told me that a reporter from Time Magazine was on the line my first reaction was, 'Subscription?, no, they probably want to sell me an ad.' The idea that they actually wanted to write a story about my railroad never occurred to me. They were followed by Life Magazine, US News & World Report, Business Weekly, and others." 
 
On December 6th the Auto-Train was unveiled. The wheels were purple, the locomotives were red, white and purple. The interiors of the passenger cars and dining cars had been re-designed, with colorful fabrics and new furnishings. 
 
"Every major network and newspaper covered the inaugural run. The train arrived on time, there was a big celebration and banquet--and we went on from there. We became known as the family railroad," said Garfield. 
 
Garfield managed the railroad for almost 13 years, did $34 million a year business and had 720 employees. But, after a series of events, including two derailments, it was time to move on. Amtrak purchased the Auto-Train operation, updated the equipment and it is still running today. 
 
After Auto-Train, Garfield started and sold several new companies. One was Dennison, Inc., a European physician referral service and American lawyer referral service. "We signed up 200 physicians in Europe so that when people from the United States traveled to countries abroad, they could have a doctor they could call. They carried a Trav-Med card with their medical records and prescriptions." 
 
Prior to entering the world of business and finance, Garfield's career included practicing law for five years, after which he was appointed counsel to the Governor Hayden Burns of Florida. He served as general counsel for the Florida Department of Education, assistant to the White House Chief of Staff, and as assistant to the Secretary of Transportation in Washington, D.C. 
 
Garfield has served on many state and national educational, cultural and financial boards and was most recently appointed by Governor Chiles to the State Department of Transportation to advise him on the rail system in the state. "I think you are born to be an entrepreneur," said Garfield. "You can be taught certain things about how to, but it has to be in your blood." 
 
Eugene Kerik Garfield was recently appointed Senior Entrepreneur in Residence at Nova University of the School of Business and Entrepreneurship
 
 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 9, 2019 9:17 PM

Thanks Mike, and thanks Vince for passing it on.

A personal note.  I remember the Auto-Train passing though the Marine base at Quantico VA on the RF&P, this was 1974.  The tracks ran past the Officer Candidate School, where I was in attendance at the time.  (Oh brother!  But that's another story.)

Let me tell you, that thing flew  through the base!  

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Posted by Jim200 on Wednesday, December 11, 2019 1:12 PM

The current Auto Train is limited to a maximum of 70 mph. Maybe out west on the BNSF transcon with 90 mph running, the autoracks might be allowed to go a little faster.

If Amtrak wanted to have an NEC Auto Train from somewhere near New York City to Washington DC, (probably Lorton, VA), they would have to order new autoracks with lower height. The F40PH at 15' 7 1/2" cleared the catenary on the NEC, so the new autoracks could be about this height.

Trinity Rail, who make autoracks, did a study and found that 45.6% of cars and trucks are less than 60" in height (in 2008). Motor Trend magazine shows that 2020 pickup trucks and SUVs are less than 81" in height, although we should remember that older trucks could be higher. 

Autoracks are constructed with 31 1/2" from floor to rail. If we allow 3" clearance for vehicle bounce, then we need the lower floor at 63" and the upper floor on bilevel autoracks at 84" in height.  Adding 5" for roof and floor structure gives 183 1/2" or 15' 3 1/2", which means that the upper floor could be about 88" to accommodate those older pickup trucks.

A new NEC Auto Train appears to be feasible and wanted, but it will probably never happen, because at present there is no leader with vision and gumption to get it done.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, December 11, 2019 2:48 PM

Why not just have single deckers?  Loading and unloading would be faster. 

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