When the Avelia Liberty sets arrive in 2021, what will Amtrak do with the Acela's?
So far it appears, surprising as it may seem, that they will be retired rather than being put in 'alternative' service (as the French have famously done with their original TGV sets).
Suspect that this is partially due (perhaps largely due) to the level of complexity and proprietary part expense involved in keeping the somewhat-overripe-tomato equipment in running order even at lower peak speeds or less-demanding duty cycles. These share considerable 'tech' with the HHP-8s, which have acquired quite a reputation as roundhouse queens even though they 'go like no other' when kept in even reasonable repair.
Artificial reefs. Chicken coops. The faster they’re gone the better.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
I'm going to put in for a power car and a couple of 'coaches' for a vacation house, having had to miss out on the Constitution-Liner and previously the Turboliner auctions.
"Recycling" of Acela trainsets is probably a matter of economics. Currently, these Acela trainsets are under a maintenance contract with ALSTOM; I am guessing that until AMTRAK divests itself of those units, ALSTOM must maintain them. Under such terms, these older train sets would have to be recycled for parts and material, UNLESS there is another company willing to modify this soon-to-be obsolete train technology, and willing to buy them as-is.
“Things of quality have no fear of time.”
It would be nice to see them combined into fewer, larger trainsets (passenger demand permitting of course) with two locomotives at each end.
Then you might be able to get to the other end with one locomotive still running!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Warren J Currently, these Acela trainsets are under a maintenance contract with ALSTOM;
Currently, these Acela trainsets are under a maintenance contract with ALSTOM;
I thought I read somewhere that Amtrak changed it's mind about retiring the Acelas and was going to use them to increase frequency.
I thought this was surprising. Not sure where I read (or dreamed) it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd I thought I read somewhere that Amtrak changed it's mind about retiring the Acelas and was going to use them to increase frequency. I thought this was surprising. Not sure where I read (or dreamed) it.
They could run as Clockers from NY-DC or on The Keystone.
D.Carleton oltmannd I thought I read somewhere that Amtrak changed it's mind about retiring the Acelas and was going to use them to increase frequency. I thought this was surprising. Not sure where I read (or dreamed) it. I think it was a ramping up of Acela frequencies in anticipation of the new equipment. That's putting a lot of faith in a product you have yet to kick the tires whilst running the wheels off of what you do have.
I think it was a ramping up of Acela frequencies in anticipation of the new equipment. That's putting a lot of faith in a product you have yet to kick the tires whilst running the wheels off of what you do have.
You are correct. From Amtrak's fleet plan:
(https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/businessplanning/Amtrak-Equipment-Asset-Line-Plan-FY20-24.pdf)
Acela Express equipment (20 trainsets totalling 160 active units plus one inspection car), built 1999- 2001 by Alstom & Bombardier; these trainsets will be retired following the delivery of Alstom Avelia Liberty trainsets currently on order.
I've got it.
Rebuild them as high-speed baggage cars! (ducks head under the desk)
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul Milenkovic I've got it. Rebuild them as high-speed baggage cars! (ducks head under the desk)
No worries! You just won the internet!
zkr123 When the Avelia Liberty sets arrive in 2021, what will Amtrak do with the Acela's?
Junk 'em
D.Carleton Artificial reefs. Chicken coops. The faster they’re gone the better.
Agree!!!
In a more serious vein, VIA kept their LRC cars (with the active tilt disabled) and scrapped the LRC locomotives, which were ALCos in reality. Diesel locomotives are maybe only worth rebuilding if they are GP9s or SD40-2s. ALCos can be maintained if you are Delaware and Hudson, but others find them too much trouble. I get that.
The Acelas are LRCs in reality? One of the advantages of using a separate locomotive over going for higher acceleration with MU cars is that the mechanical-maintenance intensive bits are in the locomotive, which can be uncoupled and replaced with a different locomotive?
Are the systems -- A/C, doors, PA systems, retention toilets -- in the Acelas that bad to merit scrapping all of the cars? Are they that much worse than the LRC passenger cars apart from their original locomotives?
I’m not a huge fan of the Acelas, I think Amtrak puts too much focus on the NEC anyway (just my opinion, though I have never seen the NEC). Also I just don’t like the European look of the Acelas. (Yet I love my local Cascades, what is wrong with my opinions?)
Anyway, if the leaser doesn’t have anything they want to do with them, perhaps Amtrak will turn them into cabbages or retrofit them into normal coaches. They have done similar things to the metroliners and F40s.
Like them or not, I would be sacrilege for none of them to end up in a museum. I hope one get preserved. It would be interesting if someone kept one in operating condition too. They are an important piece of Amtrak history after all.
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
SPSOT fan I think Amtrak puts too much focus on the NEC anyway (just my opinion, though I have never seen the NEC).
I think Amtrak puts too much focus on the NEC anyway (just my opinion, though I have never seen the NEC).
Unavoidable: the Northeast Corridor is 17 percent of the US population and 20 percent of GDP, in 2 percent of the land area that also happens to be arrayed in almost a straight line.
Paul MilenkovicThe Acelas are LRCs in reality?
243129 D.Carleton Artificial reefs. Chicken coops. The faster they’re gone the better. Agree!!!
D.Carleton 243129 D.Carleton Artificial reefs. Chicken coops. The faster they’re gone the better. Agree!!! Forgot to mention razor blades.
Forgot to mention razor blades.
Ridiculous! You'd think from reading this forum they were failures. But a much larger group, J.Q. Public voted for the Acelas with heavy patronage at a premium fare, over and over again for years. But to listen to Smoky Joe and some other embittered souls, they must all be suckers.
charlie hebdoRidiculous! You'd think from reading this forum they were failures. But a much larger group, J.Q. Public voted for the Acelas with heavy patronage at a premium fare, over and over again for years. But to listen to Smoky Joe and some other embittered souls, they must all be suckers.
What were your specific problems with the Acela equipment? They were overweighted to meet the ridiculous FRA rules, yes, but why did they become junk?
Much has been said and written about Acela and its drawbacks, enough to write a book (which I may get around to one day). For now it’s best to reflect on the words of a then NRPC vice-president, “We should have bought the X2000.”
charlie hebdoRidiculous! You'd think from reading this forum they were failures.
We're talking engineering, not marketing here. The Metroliners were popular with riders, too, but ask any riding maintainer whether they were equally popular with the folks who had to keep them running and you might have to use Blistex on your ears.
As I noted for the HHP-8s: the Acelas are expensive and difficult to keep running, whether or not they're kept in service that allows a premium price to be charged. I have never been in a position of responsibility to maintain them, so I'll make no direct claim about what the major difficulties are, but the simple question of parts availability that, for example, killed the use of the Amtrak LRC sets is a practical difficulty regardless of "plague spot" maintenance concerns.
Edit: I concur wholeheartedly, for whatever it may be worth, on the X2000. (Although I suspect there would have been evolutionary maintenance problems there, too, over the years...)
Yes, no one here has answered this question.
Was the maintenance problem with the Acela locomotives/power cars or did the coaches also have problems?
The Metroliners, famously, were car-barn queens, but these were self-propelled. Amfleet was pretty much a Metroliner without the propulsion -- to be pulled by either an F40PH Diesel or an AEM-7 electric -- and they are still in service. Furthermore, Metroliners with their traction motors and other gear removed have been in service as cab cars on the Harrisburg service?
What prevents using the Acela coaches for Regional service? Jokes about razor blades and artificial ocean reefs do not speak to a legitimate question for a Trains Forum from many of us in the passenger rail advocacy/rail fan communities.
OvermodEdit: I concur wholeheartedly, for whatever it may be worth, on the X2000. (Although I suspect there would have been evolutionary maintenance problems there, too, over the years...)
The Swedish X2000 trains are currently undergoing full rebuilds, changing out most of the interiors and much of the technology to make them fit for another 20-25 years of service. The calculation was that a rebuild is 1/3 of the cost of a new train set. Plus passenger comfort increases and realiability/availability of the trainsets will increase.
Paul Milenkovic Yes, no one here has answered this question. Was the maintenance problem with the Acela locomotives/power cars or did the coaches also have problems? The Metroliners, famously, were car-barn queens, but these were self-propelled. Amfleet was pretty much a Metroliner without the propulsion -- to be pulled by either an F40PH Diesel or an AEM-7 electric -- and they are still in service. Furthermore, Metroliners with their traction motors and other gear removed have been in service as cab cars on the Harrisburg service? What prevents using the Acela coaches for Regional service? Jokes about razor blades and artificial ocean reefs do not speak to a legitimate question for a Trains Forum from many of us in the passenger rail advocacy/rail fan communities.
Thank for reframing this from an engineering perspective. I recall your commentary on various turboliners.
Paul MilenkovicWhat prevents using the Acela coaches for Regional service? Jokes about razor blades and artificial ocean reefs do not speak to a legitimate question for a Trains Forum from many of us in the passenger rail advocacy/rail fan communities.
The expense of converting them to be hauled by a conventional locomotive.
If the consist is left unitized a defect in one car could result in a massive delay whereas in a conventional consist the defective car could be set out and the train could proceed with significantly less of a delay.
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