https://www.biztimes.com/2019/ideas/government-politics/evers-wants-to-expand-amtraks-milwaukee-to-chicago-hiawatha-service/
Interesting, I realize it is still a ways out but I would think by this time Amtrak would at least have somewhat of a clue on how it would handle the corridor during the DNC Convention.........geez. Wait until the year of?
CMStPnP https://www.biztimes.com/2019/ideas/government-politics/evers-wants-to-expand-amtraks-milwaukee-to-chicago-hiawatha-service/ Interesting, I realize it is still a ways out but I would think by this time Amtrak would at least have somewhat of a clue on how it would handle the corridor during the DNC Convention.........geez. Wait until the year of?
“Things of quality have no fear of time.”
Warren J CMStPnP https://www.biztimes.com/2019/ideas/government-politics/evers-wants-to-expand-amtraks-milwaukee-to-chicago-hiawatha-service/ Interesting, I realize it is still a ways out but I would think by this time Amtrak would at least have somewhat of a clue on how it would handle the corridor during the DNC Convention.........geez. Wait until the year of? What is holding back any AMTRAK "Hiawatha" service development on its travels on the METRA UP North Line is the reticence of some of Chicago's northern suburbs to ANY growth in train traffic or even improvements (crossovers, sidings, etc.) near their jurisdictions. It's a case of NIMBY!
What is holding back any AMTRAK "Hiawatha" service development on its travels on the METRA UP North Line is the reticence of some of Chicago's northern suburbs to ANY growth in train traffic or even improvements (crossovers, sidings, etc.) near their jurisdictions. It's a case of NIMBY!
You might want to ask zardoz or someone in the area about the condition of the former CNW ROW beyond Kenosha. One or two Amtrak trains added to a mix of 35 Metra trains each way is not the problem.
charlie hebdoYou might want to ask zardoz or someone in the area about the condition of the former CNW ROW beyond Kenosha. One or two Amtrak trains added to a mix of 35 Metra trains each way is not the problem.
The UP track north of Kenosha is dark territory (signals are long gone); the track is in ok shape--coal trains do 30 thru Racine and 40mph outlying. The only sidings are an industrial-quality siding in Racine, and Oak Creek. The bridges and other structures are still capable of supporting double-track operations, although likely needing rehabilitation.
Getting from the Kenosha sub to the CP in Milwaukee would require quite a bit of work (10mph from St. Francis to Washington Street).
Warren JWhat is holding back any AMTRAK "Hiawatha" service development on its travels on the METRA UP North Line is the reticence of some of Chicago's northern suburbs to ANY growth in train traffic or even improvements (crossovers, sidings, etc.) near their jurisdictions. It's a case of NIMBY!
Thats not an absolute block. So far WisDOT has chosen to take the METRA approach and listen to the suburbs to see what can be worked out (which only helps Wisconsin when the issue is escalated). The Chicago to Milwaukee trains are interstate trains (interstate commerce). While METRA is a current partner with WisDOT, WisDOT has the ability to go well beyond the legal jurisdiction of the state of Illinois and force the issue at the Federal level.
Taking that next step of course is going to pizz off probably both METRA and the suburbs in Nothern Illinois, which is also pizzing off part of the potential market but I have confidence that at some point Wisconsin and other states in the HSR compact (Minnesota as well probably) are going to force the issue with Chicago's Northern suburbs. Very high probability they will win if they do force the issue.
More than likely after escalation the Feds will instruct the suburbs how our Constitution works in such matters where a small local minority attempts to block a larger good in transportation.
zardozThere are only 5 RT trains daily between Waukegan and Kenosha. I'm not sure how you would get Amtrash trains on to the Kenosha sub; the only ways I know of are to run the trains out of Oglivie (very lousy connection to Union Station trains requiring a three-block walk), or to cross the trains from the UP's Milwaukee sub at KO to the Metra line at Lake Bluff, which would necessitate somehow getting the trains on to the UP (Shermer?). The UP track north of Kenosha is dark territory (signals are long gone); the track is in ok shape--coal trains do 30 thru Racine and 40mph outlying. The only sidings are an industrial-quality siding in Racine, and Oak Creek. The bridges and other structures are still capable of supporting double-track operations, although likely needing rehabilitation. Getting from the Kenosha sub to the CP in Milwaukee would require quite a bit of work (10mph from St. Francis to Washington Street).
I don't think Wisconsin will ever pay for Amtrak using this line either as all studies and indications are that it's only interest in the line is resurrecting the Kenosha to Milwaukee trains, they even bought the land that is under the former rail connection in Milwaukee with the Lakefront line. They want it to be regionally funded and run. Estimates last I checked were for spending $200+ million on rail upgrades. So they know what they are getting into financially, they just do not have the political support within Wisconsin for spending that kind of money yet for what largely would be a parallel line to the current Amtrak line.
Then there is the $1.4 Billion proposal to use the ex-CNW and Milwaukee road lines in and around Milwaukee for a privately run commuter rail service but base it on real estate development like Brightline. Can't believe anyone is taking that one seriously. They would use Milwaukee Road West to Brookfield and possibly Pewaukee. Use the ex-C&NW beltline around Milwaukee through Butler yard as well as inner city lines and their remnants. They are running around telling everyone they have had discussions with UP (confirmed by UP) and Bombardier who they would contract to run the service with Bombardier equipment. I can't see this one ever working but then again it is private money so who knows how far it will go......this was reported in the Milwaukee Business Journal. Tried a link before but it's a block to non-subcribers.
Is it really necessary to build more sidings, etc. just to add 2-3 more trains to that line?
charlie hebdoIs it really necessary to build more sidings, etc. just to add 2-3 more trains to that line?
The argument Glenview is making is nonsensical in my view and eventually METRA and WisDOT will lose patience with them. Give it a little more time. They are only listening to say in a future courtroom if it goes that far that they attempted to be reasonable with the suburb.
The siding was at the request of CP railroad as it still wants to send trains down the C&M sub to Bensenville during the day. They are holding the trains already due to METRA traffic but further North. I think they want another holding area closer to the cutoff to Bensenville so they can take more advantage of gaps between METRA trains. Is the siding absolutely necessary given the current practice, I have my doubts. I just think it is CP wanting to increase freight train fluidity during the day......and well Amtrak came along with a request sooooo....
You have never dealt with keeping a segment of railroad fluid. One additional train, can result in gridlock under the right circumstance.
Bean Counters can't understand how two hundred miles of railroad can be 'full', but it can be and very easily and one more train would just put the cork in the bottleneck.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Who owns the track segments? Ex-Milwaukee lines to Fox Lake and to Elgin/Big Timber are owned by Metra, maintained and dispatched by CP and operated by crews of Metra/Northeastern Illinois Commuter Railroad Corporation. I think CP is just a tenant from the junction (between Metra route to Fox Lake and CP route on to Milwaukee) all the way down to Chicago. On Metra track, Metra has priority.
Accountants have nothing to do with this. Metra runs 33 trains each way on weekdays, 10 each way during rush hours. How many trains does CP run? Amtrak runs seven now, wants to run 10. The Milwaukee Road ran more passenger trains back in the day.
BaltACD You have never dealt with keeping a segment of railroad fluid. One additional train, can result in gridlock under the right circumstance. Bean Counters can't understand how two hundred miles of railroad can be 'full', but it can be and very easily and one more train would just put the cork in the bottleneck.
charlie hebdo Who owns the track segments? Ex-Milwaukee lines to Fox Lake and to Elgin/Big Timber are owned by Metra, maintained and dispatched by CP and operated by crews of Metra/Northeastern Illinois Commuter Railroad Corporation. I think CP is just a tenant from the junction (between Metra route to Fox Lake and CP route on to Milwaukee) all the way down to Chicago. On Metra track, Metra has priority. Accountants have nothing to do with this. Metra runs 33 trains each way on weekdays, 10 each way during rush hours. How many trains does CP run? Amtrak runs seven now, wants to run 10. The Milwaukee Road ran more passenger trains back in the day.
I believe the Bensenville cutoff being used from Glenview to most of the way to Bensenville is owned by Union Pacific and is ex-CNW. Here is the full list of what they want to do. See page 6 for CP and their input as to issues they want to correct with this project.........it also identifies operational problems and track ownership I believe.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/multimodal/rail/chi-12214-min.pdf
So the trains are already being held at or near Rondout I believe. They want a siding closer to the cutover to UPRR rails to increase their chances of an operational window to get to Bensenville during the day.......is what it reads like.
blue streak 1 BaltACD You have never dealt with keeping a segment of railroad fluid. One additional train, can result in gridlock under the right circumstance. Bean Counters can't understand how two hundred miles of railroad can be 'full', but it can be and very easily and one more train would just put the cork in the bottleneck. Seems fairly clear to this poster. Take a segment of rr with 4 sidings each 1 train length long but 5 trains each way at same time. Gridlock tracks/
Of course they are not running 10 trains on that stretch simultaneously. In pre-Amtrak days the Milwaukee Road about 10 long distance passenger trains on the stretch in question (some well over 90 mph) plus freights. Maybe dispatchers were more competent then?
https://patch.com/illinois/glenview/no-north-shore-holding-tracks-amtrak-hiawatha-expansion-idot?utm_source=amp&utm_campaign=amp&utm_medium=mobile
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