"Virgin Trains is owned by Florida East Coast Industries. FECI is owned by Fortress Investment Group LLC, which was sold to Japan’s SoftBank Group Corp. in December 2017." Who is going to make the most money: Branson, FECI, SoftBank, or other high rise building investors? We know that the Morgan Stanley investors will make something over $650 million tax free. Plus perhaps something similar will be made by investors in the next $950 million bond offering. It will be interesting to see what happens next from LA to Vegas.
I hope that part of the re-branding is getting rid of Brightline’s hideous paint scheme(s).
Still in training.
CMStPnPGATORS are street legal in most states but you have to buy a DIY street legal kit or have the dealer install it before you take delivery. It's basically adding additional mirrors, SMV sign on back, and a few other items. Not a huge add-on expense.
The official pravda on ATVs not being road-legal was so strong that I never really looked into what would be involved -- there are indeed some jurisdictions that permit certain models (when converted with DOT-legal parts) to run on public roads, and there is indeed substantial interest and support in doing this for the more sophisticated machines. Here is one guide to what is required (URL tags are now completely broken for posts from Chrome using Windows 10, go figure, but it's Kalmbach IT in action, or inaction, take your choice):
https://www.chapmoto.com/blog/2015/02/12/dirt-street-utv-street-legal/
I'm not sure, though, that 'slight' is the best word to describe the initial expense, except as considered relative to the ever-increasing cost of large machines like GATORs. Here is one company's price list of some of the pieces needed to make one legal
https://www.sidebysidestuff.com/john-deere-gator-utility-street-legal-dot-approval-stuff.html
-- the original GATOR had six wheels (and needs DOT tires on all of them), lights, windshield... it does add up to what I suspect is the price of an older used SUV of much greater capacity. But there is CERTAINLY the interest in doing the conversions.
OvermodBut for what? In how many jurisdictions, rural or otherwise, is it legal to drive a GATOR on a public road in the first place?
On your first two questions, I was throwing it out there as I see them on sale and being purchased in Texas and Iowa both in rural areas........sometimes used in urbanized areas for snow plowing in Iowa and Wisconsin. Manufacturer probably has the distribution stats. Hell even Amtrak is buying them to haul passengers and luggage on some train platforms if you look closely at some station stops.
GATORS are street legal in most states but you have to buy a DIY street legal kit or have the dealer install it before you take delivery. It's basically adding additional mirrors, SMV sign on back, and a few other items. Not a huge add-on expense. I would personally never drive one on the street because I don't personally think they are engineered for an accident there. Rural areas though that might see a car on a road like once every so many hours........probably not a huge deal.
CMStPnPThe top of the line GATOR can do 45-50 mph and it is cheaper than a second car or SUV plus it is designed to go cross country 4x4, some would argue not as rugged as a SUV 4x4 but still good enough in a lot of cases.
But for what? In how many jurisdictions, rural or otherwise, is it legal to drive a GATOR on a public road in the first place?
Treasure Coast die hards have been fighting against the idea since it was proposed. I don't know what it is that they really want - do they wish the Treasure Coast would float out to sea and sever it's relationship with the USA?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
As far as the supposed ridership issue, they have met or exceeded the expectations after 8 months of full service between Miami and WPB (meaning 16 RT weekdays). They are at 1.1M annual riders now with a monthly growth rate of around 8%. The media has created a false story based on a basic misunderstanding of what the Louis Berger ridership study estimated for 2018. 1 million riders in 2018 was based on full Miami to WPB service starting on January 1, 2018 not delayed until August 2018. This is a classic example of media bias and laziness on the part of most journalists who cover Brightline. Even the revenue estimates are based on having certain ancillary sources operational such as the Central Fare food court in the Miami station which has yet to open.
This is a long term project and was never expected to become profitable in the first year of operation or even the 3rd year. In yesterday's FDFC meeting I got to hear the IRC attorney spew the same crap about how the project is a financial failure already and does not meet the qualifications to be eligible for PABs because it lost money last year. That's all the opponents have left to argue now. Based on the initial year of service they are making a declaration that Virgin Trains will never succeed.
It is the biggest load of horse manure I've heard in a long time.
BaltACDJoy riding just to see the service would be the only market.
I disagee, your discounting that we have both a new and increasing demographic of no second car which is relying on Uber and Lyft to get around. If you have to pay out of pocket due to no second car, increasingly the train becomes more attractive as an alternative.
I used to chuckle after my Grandparents moved to Sun City, Arizona. They sold the second car and bought a Golf Cart because within the mega retirement community you could drive a Golf Cart anywhere and they were cheaper and all electric most of them.
Same thing is happening in some rural or remote areas. Folks are selling the seond car and buying a John Deere GATOR or some other competing product. The top of the line GATOR can do 45-50 mph and it is cheaper than a second car or SUV plus it is designed to go cross country 4x4, some would argue not as rugged as a SUV 4x4 but still good enough in a lot of cases. The market for GATORS is increasing as well. Though in a lot of cases the GATOR replaces a third SUV or Truck that was used mostly on "the ranch". Still it is adding to the new and growing demographic of less automobiles per capita for the United States as we move into the future.
Further, IF they ever tighten up on the drivers license test in the United States and make it comparable to European Countries. Your going to see a much higher failure rate there and even a small minority that can not obtain a drivers liscense. Our drivers license test now is geared to the dumbest simpleton and a large percentage pass on the first attempt.........it's not like that elsewhere (German license for example, which I had to test for in order to drive a Military vehicle in Germany.....not easy). I have my doubts the States will ever fix this but then again 15 years ago if you asked me if we would ever have an open Socialist running for POTUS, I would have laughed it off.
One other item to consider in regards to Florida specifically. East Coast of Florida is primarily former New Yorkers and folks from New Jersey, etc. West Coast of Florida is primarily where the Midwestern and rust belt folks settle. This segregation is due to the difference in real estate prices between the two areas. My point here being, current NYC or Long Island driver? How many cars do you think they have in Florida?
JPS1 Realistic expectations are important for this project. Some have pointed to the fact that ridership to date has not met expectations and losses are significant. It will take time for this project to get on its feet; it needs time to prove its worth.
The expectations of any ridership between Ft. Lauderdale and W. Palm Beach would be wishing for pie in the sky - with competition from I-95, Florida TP and Tri-Rail. Joy riding just to see the service would be the only market.
Brian_Tampa I will be attending the FDFC meeting tomorrow in support of their application for another $950M in PAB's.
According to an article in the Miami Herald, the application for the PAB's was approved.
I hope Virgin Trains is successful. It could be a model for other areas where passenger trains make sense.
Realistic expectations are important for this project. Some have pointed to the fact that ridership to date has not met expectations and losses are significant. It will take time for this project to get on its feet; it needs time to prove its worth.
the bond sale in late 2017 for $600M attracted around $2.2B in potential investors. Also, they are limited to the amount they have been authorized to sell. in this case authorized through the approval of the US DOT and the state issuer of municipal bonds here, FDFC. I will be attending the FDFC meeting tomorrow in support of their application for another $950M in PAB's.
Interesting. Some brands have real value.
Wow, reads like they could have got $4 Billion from the sale if they wanted it. What a difference the change in brand name to use "Virgin Trains" made in investor interest......
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/04/04-virgin-trains-usa-raises-$175-billion-in-bond-sale
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.