What we are all missing with Amtrak...
So here you go I guess on Austrian State Railways (OBB) this is the Deluxe sleeping cabin on the second floor. Note it is designed with the vertically challenged in mind but still it is pretty roomy (looks like three complete picture windows instead of one). A bathroom where the toilet is seperate from the shower and the shower is enclosed, bunk beds of course and well.......enjoy the rest of the tour.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go42NiAqtJk
So I am curious if Siemens makes these sleepers or not?
Also, wanted to add the big meal of the day in Germany and Austria is lunch so while it looks like he is getting ripped off for breakfest. Common in both countries to get several types of bread with bread spreads or slices of meat for breakfest. They don't have the large caloric breakfest you have in the United States with eggs, bacon, sweet rolls and the like.
Times and eating customs have changed to some degree in Germany in the 50 years I have been spending time there. Mittagessen (the midday meal) used to be the main, hot meal of the day. For some, especially the elderly and those in the rural areas, it still is, but for many others, Abendessen (evening meal) is a warm meal, not the traditional cold Abendbrot (evening bread). As to Frühstück, sweet rolls are common and popular, as are various meats and cereals. Hotels over the last ~25 years offer reichhaltig (generous, abundant) buffets. Not just a Brötchen and coffee these days.
I'm glad to see that some sleeper trains are still running in Europe. I've been under the impression that they are going away thanks to Easy Jet and Ryanair. I once took an Italian sleeper (first class!) from Paris to Florence and it was the greatest ride in a vehicle that I've ever had. That was in 2004 and I can only hope that such service still exists.
Regarding German meals, I was in a hotel in Dresden about 10 years ago and the breakfast buffet was amazing! There was enough grub to keep you going all day. Most hotels in Germany do a pretty big breakfast so all you need for lunch is a bratwurst from a street vendor and a beer, of course.
These are New Sleeping Cars in Austrian State Railway?? or Older Cars for this Route??
conrailman These are New Sleeping Cars in Austrian State Railway?? or Older Cars for this Route??
Not new, (1990s and 2004) but reconditioned. https://tripbytrip.org/2018/07/19/reliving-the-era-of-the-great-railway-journeys-travelling-overnight-on-nightjet/
Looks like nice sleeping car to travel in.
conrailmanLooks like nice sleeping car to travel in.
Looks like they are made by Siemens and OBB placed an order for new ones:
https://www.railjournal.com/rolling-stock/bb-agrees-e145bn-deal-with-siemens-for-long-distance-trains/
Must be Nice too have 700 Brand New Cars with sleeping Cars and other New Cars on order. Amtrak needs too replace the Superliner Cars Now.
conrailmanMust be Nice too have 700 Brand New Cars with sleeping Cars and other New Cars on order. Amtrak needs too replace the Superliner Cars Now.
This started out as an experiment by OBB, other state railways were cutting back their sleeping car services and I think OBB went out on a limb here to try an upgraded multi-class service with newer equipment. I have no clue how it is working out for them because I never looked or Googled. Conceptually, it is a good idea in my view to use overnight sleeper trains to compete with jets.
I remember back in the 1980's when I was stationed in the Army in Northern Germany at that time you had your choice via the U.S. Army sleeper trains they had two that split in Hannover (ran as one train Hannover to Frankfurt but split into two trains at that point) that the U.S. Taxpayer paid for via DoD (see you paid for passenger trains on the German train network in addition to Amtrak and you never knew it as a taxpayer until now....heh-heh). One ran North to South from Frankfurt to Bremerhaven via Hannover. The other ran from southwest to Northeast from Frankfurt to Berlin via Hannover. Their function was to carry US Army mail as well as replacement troops. I think each ran tri-weekly but I am not sure. Almost impossible to get on one. Train conductor was DB but each train had a train commander which was a uniformed 1LT (so the Army could file charges against you for misbehavior on the train). So this paragraph was more or less useless trivia.
Anyways, back when I was stationed there I went off to the Army post American Express Travel office and had them make me and two buddies overnight reservations on the DB Sleeping Car from Bremen to Munich and return so that we could attend the opening day of Oktoberfest. Head down Friday night, depart Bremen 11:00 p.m......which was awesome we could still get bar hopping in. Arrive in Munich 7:00 a.m. fully rested and with no breakfest served (it was 2nd class). Just about an hour before the starting parade to Oktoberfest started. Then depart Munich 11:00 p.m. that night and arrive back in Bremen on Sunday morning around 7 or 8 a.m. Perfect timing with the train and it saved us $$$ over hotel. I believe the 2nd class sleeper surcharge was $80 RT each plus railfare. We saved two nights in a hotel vs flying there and untold hassles as well. We had to shared the sleeper with three other people though it was a 6 bunk second class compartment (and the windows opened to outside!!). The really cool thing was departing Munich we were pacing other passenger trains as well and with the windows open in 2nd class on the pacing trains you could hear the German folk songs being sung for at least 7-12 miles on the way back until the other trains branched out on their diverging routes. You would never get that type of experience or schedule with Amtrak.....or even get to meet three complete strangers in a sleeping car compartment. The conductor actually came around and made us close our window up to a 3-4 inch crack vs having it 1/2 way down because some idiot was throwing beer cans out their window and the conductor didn't want to have one fly in and hit someone or so he explained.
So you were in a couchette berth? Me and about 50 other guys from my ship which was moored in Naples in 1978 took a couchette to Munich on a tour organised by the ships chaplain, Father Kelly - a very nice guy from Boston. We stayed at a U.S. army-run hotel (at least I think it was) in Munich which was a lot cheaper than being "on the economy" as army guys would call living amongst the citizens. Anyway, we lived on beer and pretzels the whole time we were there.
conrailman Must be Nice too have 700 Brand New Cars with sleeping Cars and other New Cars on order. Amtrak needs too replace the Superliner Cars Now.
Consider that Austria is a small nation of about 9 million people.
54light15So you were in a couchette berth?
Yeah I remember the Navy and Marines usually had two options the ships would dock in Bremerhaven and they could take the local trains to Bremen form there (since back then that was not really a mainline but rather a branch). They had option #2 which was to fly in offshore on those huge Skyking Helos and land at Bremerhaven.....take the train in. They did have Army hostels around the country.......I think run by AmVets or some such group. They have one in Manhattan, NY as well or did in 1985. $25-30 a night for Manhattan, NY (lol). Not very fancy though, just bunk beds with Army wool blankets and a night desk / watchman to keep the crime out on the street.
No problem! Like most of Europe's railways, the Austraian Railway System is subsidized heavily.
The Austrian personal income tax rates, however, which drive the revenues necessary to subsidize the railways, might not be acceptable to most Americans. Converted to U.S. dollars, the first $12,603 does not attract any income tax. From $12,604 to $26,843 the marginal tax rate is 36.5 percent. From 26,843 to $68,745 the marginal tax rate is 43.21 percent. Anything over $68,745 requires the taxpayer to give the government 50 percent of everything h/she earns.
I know a few folks that are enthusiastic about European railways. We should do the same thing here they say. Until they learn how much it would cost them to duplicate them in the U.S.!
JPS1No problem! Like most of Europe's railways, the Austraian Railway System is subsidized heavily. The Austrian personal income tax rates, however, which drive the revenues necessary to subsidize the railways, might not be acceptable to most Americans. Converted to U.S. dollars, the first $12,603 does not attract any income tax. From $12,604 to $26,843 the marginal tax rate is 36.5 percent. From 26,843 to $68,745 the marginal tax rate is 43.21 percent. Anything over $68,745 requires the taxpayer to give the government 50 percent of everything h/she earns. I know a few folks that are enthusiastic about European railways. We should do the same thing here they say. Until they learn how much it would cost them to duplicate them in the U.S.!
So I am trying to understand the basic math here. So Austrian State Railways get a subsidy about the size of what we pay for Amtrak but they have 40,000 employees I think compared to Amtrak and they have a National Bus System they run in addition. It amounts to $2.3 Billion a year for the national subsidy beyond what the national system makes in revenue. Again, for that amount they get a national bus system thrown in as well. Austria per capita GDP is only approx half of the United States, so yeah they will need to charge more in taxes than we do if they want a comparable standard of living or else they need to rapidly grow their GDP to a much larger rate. Austria is much smaller in land area than the United States. However, these sleeper trains are running across Europe and far beyond the borders of the country of Austria.
Austria's national economy GDP is only $862 Billion and the majority of their tax revenue goes towards their social programs. Not a bad figure for only a few million people, in my humble opinion.
However, I am confused as to why you think with a $20 Trillion GDP we would need to assess a 40% income tax rate to obtain a few sleeper trains for our national Amtrak network? I am lost in the math somewhere.
Granted the funding source for OBB is stable and annually given vs Amtrak's roller coaster funding amount. Still I don't think we need to jack up taxes to improve Amtrak all that much. Just straighten out it's funding sources to be more stable over a 10 year period and break up Amtrak into seperate funding areas of infrastructure, rail equipment, etc. In fact Amtrak management states similar. They stated in their last 5 year plan they would prefer to be treated like a DoD contractor with a 10 year budget funding source outlook and capital investment plan......vs. the yearly up and down.
CMStPnP So I am trying to understand the basic math here. So Austrian State Railways get a subsidy about the size of what we pay for Amtrak but they have 40,000 employees I think compared to Amtrak and they have a National Bus System they run in addition. It amounts to $2.3 Billion a year for the national subsidy beyond what the national system makes in revenue. Again, for that amount they get a national bus system thrown in as well. Austria per capita GDP is only approx half of the United States, so yeah they will need to charge more in taxes than we do if they want a comparable standard of living or else they need to rapidly grow their GDP to a much larger rate. Austria is much smaller in land area than the United States. However, these sleeper trains are running across Europe and far beyond the borders of the country of Austria. Austria's national economy GDP is only $862 Billion and the majority of their tax revenue goes towards their social programs. Not a bad figure for only a few million people, in my humble opinion. However, I am confused as to why you think with a $20 Trillion GDP we would need to assess a 40% income tax rate to obtain a few sleeper trains for our national Amtrak network? I am lost in the math somewhere. Granted the funding source for OBB is stable and annually given vs Amtrak's roller coaster funding amount. Still I don't think we need to jack up taxes to improve Amtrak all that much. Just straighten out it's funding sources to be more stable over a 10 year period and break up Amtrak into seperate funding areas of infrastructure, rail equipment, etc. In fact Amtrak management states similar. They stated in their last 5 year plan they would prefer to be treated like a DoD contractor with a 10 year budget funding source outlook and capital investment plan......vs. the yearly up and down.
I was pointing out that Austrians, like most Europeans, pay considerably higher taxes than we pay in the United States. Some of those taxes go to support the European passenger trains that many Americans seem so fond of. I did not equate cross boarder GDPs or imply that American tax rates should be on a scale with European tax rates.
If Americans want a passenger train system similar to what they have in many European countries, as well as China and Japan, they need to pay higher taxes. That is not to say that they have to be on a par with those in Europe.
American taxpayers should not pay for Amtrak. Especially the long-distance trains! They are a 1950s anachronism that should have been left to die a quite death in 1971.
Per capita income in Austria is 16% lower than in US, but most folks get a lot more services personally from their income tax, such as free university tuition along with excellent bus and train services.
(from CIA Factbook)
Austria $49,900 (2017 est.)
USA $59,500 (2017 est.)
Amtrak has been 3 World Country Train System for past 50 years plus. These OverSea Country like Austria, Russian, and China puts Amtrak system to shame.
conrailmanAmtrak has been 3 World Country Train System for past 50 years plus. These OverSea Country like Austria, Russian, and China puts Amtrak system to shame.
It's largest problem is lack of a stable year to year funding source. If it could forecast 5-10 years into the future with capital investment, perhaps we would have have the rail passenger car manufacturer du jour........when Amtrak needs new equipment. Perhaps the replacement and orders could be spread out and maybe paired up with Mexico and Canada and keep a rail passenger car firm operating as a going concern.
Delta Dick is going too make Amtrak 3 World Train System, if he not fired or leave soon with Amtrak LD Train.
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