For the love of God, Montresor: STOP TORMENTING US WITH THIS CRAP.
If you want to have a thread about accounting esoterics, start one, and clearly title it as such so we railroad fans can pay proper attention to avoiding it.
CMStPnP PJS1 Asking for how many CPAs you know who have an expertise in Chinese accounting or continuing education courses you have attended does not require you to tell us anything about yourself. Wait a min, didn't you just exclaim how rare it was in North Texas that..... Have to say your arguing both sides of the arguments now as well. Why do I need to continue to participate. Your doing well on your own.
Wait a min, didn't you just exclaim how rare it was in North Texas that.....
Have to say your arguing both sides of the arguments now as well. Why do I need to continue to participate. Your doing well on your own.
The question is simple. How many North Texas CPA do you know that have attended continuting eduction courses on Chinese accounting practices?
You could give us a number although there is no way to verify it. But there is a way to to give credence to your claim.
Direct us to the literature that describes the Chinese courses. The Dallas Chapter of CPAs, for example, publishes a list of the continuing education courses it sponsors. Perhaps you could find the courses on Chinese accounting in the literature. Or you could broaden your search to cover all the chapters in Texas.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
CMStPnP PJS1 The large accounting firms have thousands of employees. On occasion a few of them go rogue. On second thought........deleted. Filed under hopelessly naive about big business.
On second thought........deleted. Filed under hopelessly naive about big business.
PJS1Asking for how many CPAs you know who have an expertise in Chinese accounting or continuing education courses you have attended does not require you to tell us anything about yourself.
Electroliner 1935 I aim to please, you aim too, PLEASE!
What is the point of this absurd response?
PJS1 CMStPnP In fact if you check Deloitte has packed it's bags at more than one firm after frauds were discovered...... Which firms? Here is a list of Deloitte’s offices in China: Beijing, Changsha, Chengdu, Chongqing, Dalian, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Harbin, Hefei, Hong Kong, Jinan, Macau, Nanjing, Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzhen, Suzhou, Tianjin, Wuhan, Xiamen, and Xi'an. You can verify the information on the Deloitte’s website. Or better yet, the telephone number for each office is listed. Give them a call and see if they have left or are leaving China. I worked closely with Deloitte in the U.S., Canada, and Australia for more than 30 years. The notion that they don’t follow the accounting principles of a country is absurd. China’s accounting principles are different from those in the U.S. And as noted they don’t adhere 100 percent to the International Standards. Neither does the United States.
CMStPnP In fact if you check Deloitte has packed it's bags at more than one firm after frauds were discovered......
Which firms?
PJS1: Why do you bother to attempt a factual discussion with a guy who can't even remember what nonsense he previously said? He knows little about China, accounting or much of anything else beyond flying in first or business class. Not sure he even knows his way around a sandwich.
CMStPnP PJS1 I worked closely with Deloitte in the U.S., Canada, and Australia for more than 30 years. And...
And...
Your observations about Deloitte are absurd. The list of offices that I posted is pretty long. Deloitte appears to have a strong presence in China.
And is I worked with them for a long period and know better. You can believe if or not. Frankly, I don't care what you believe.
Which offices have they close or which firms have they dropped because of accounting fraud? This assertion should be support by facts, i.e. name of company, dates, description of the accounting fraud, etc. To date none!
You make claim after claim without any data to support it. Often out of context! None! And then when you get caught out, you come back with irrelevant one liners or a personal attack.
CMStPnP ....never asked for your qualifications but look who is doing so again from me?
Not a single one of these questions would require you to tell us anything about yourself.
How would you know what is covered in the continuing education courses? Have you attended any of them?
How many CPA's do you know?
Do you particpate in the Dallas Chapter of the Texas Society of CPAs?
How many of the continuing education courses offered by the Dallas Chapter of CPAs over the past ten years have covered auditing Chinese companys?
You could get a copy of the continuing education literature from the Dallas Chapter, go through it, and identify the courses on Chinese accounting practices. I doubt you will find any.
It is possible that a North Texas CPA, whose practice is local, could travel to China for the latest update on Chinese accounting, but it is improbable.
PJS1I worked closely with Deloitte in the U.S., Canada, and Australia for more than 30 years.
PJS1The notion that the typical North Texas CPA, who has a local practice in Collin County, is conversant in the auditing Chinese firms is absurd.
At this point your arguing with a strawman as you did in the prevous post. Example: making your own conversation points and calling yourself absurd because I never made any such statement..........quoted above.
The last two posts directed at me were sock puppet conversations and in one you even quoted text I never posted......it was your own text.
What should I conclude from that?
Also, never asked for your qualifications but look who is doing so again from me? Look end the argument, even if I did give you what you were looking for you would never beleive me. Suffice it to say my work is fairly important my employer does not want it on Social Media as part of their Social Media policy and that includes specifics as to my background. I think they are paranoid but it is their decision not mine. You'll have to accept it. Pretty sure other posters here are under similar constraints and that is why it is pretty shortsighted of you to go around asking specifics of peoples backgrounds on an opinion based public facing website no less (which is social media).
CMStPnP Untrue, a good portion of CPA's are trained across multiple areas now. Additionally, they attend yearly meetings as part of retaining their certification and some of those meetings cover standards in other countries as well as safety of financial reporting from other countries.
Texas CPA's are required to complete 120 hours of continuing education over a three year period, with a minimum of 20 hours a year.
How many CPA's do you know? Do you particpate in the Dallas Chapter of the Texas Society of CPAs?
Unless one is actively involved in auditing a Chinese company, as on the ground, he or she does not have a clue about Chinese accounting principles, which as I have noted are different from GAAP and the International Standards.
The notion that the typical North Texas CPA, who has a local practice in Collin County, is conversant in the auditing Chinese firms is absurd.
BaltACD The urination is above the top of the rail.
What is this point of the response?
Apparently if you don't understand a subject, i.e. the financial results of China Railway Corporation passenger operations, which you asked about, you refute it with derision. Without any facts! Nice!
Or this phrase: liars’ figure and figures lie or vice versa. Nonsense!
If you don't understand a subject, it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and confirm it.
"Who decides that? What is the basis for deciding that?"
Apparently, reading is a challenge for you.
Here is what I posted. "A participant can post any opinion they want on any subject. No qualifications required."
Any opinion on any subject means just that. And no qualifications mean none!
It is up to the reader to decide whether a posting is by a participant who is qualified to opine on a technical subject. The best way is to read carefully the postings to see if they make sense. And then cross check them.
You don't know anything about me. Period! To claim otherwise is ignorant.
When you don't have any facts to support a point of view, which is more often than not, you resort to name calling. Which is usually pretty early in the discussion.
I have no intention of telling you anything about myself. I could not prove it unless I sent you a copy of my my resume, degrees, licenses, etc., which you may rest assured I don’t intend to do.
CMStPnP PJS1 "Almost as sure-fire as the good ol' invocation of professional qualifications to participate in the discussion is." A participant can post any opinion they want on any subject. No qualifications required. However, if an opinion addresses a technical subject, it is likely to get a better hearing if the person posting it has the qualifications, i.e. education, experience, certifications, etc., to support his or her views. Who decides that? What is the basis for deciding that? Is that in the terms of use of this website or forum rules? If the answer is No then your trolling and attempting to apply your own rules to a website that is not owned by you and it is not your place to do so. Which of course can lead to account suspension if you persist. Pretty sure that is a terms of use violation or very close to one.
PJS1 "Almost as sure-fire as the good ol' invocation of professional qualifications to participate in the discussion is." A participant can post any opinion they want on any subject. No qualifications required. However, if an opinion addresses a technical subject, it is likely to get a better hearing if the person posting it has the qualifications, i.e. education, experience, certifications, etc., to support his or her views.
"Almost as sure-fire as the good ol' invocation of professional qualifications to participate in the discussion is."
Is that in the terms of use of this website or forum rules?
If the answer is No then your trolling and attempting to apply your own rules to a website that is not owned by you and it is not your place to do so. Which of course can lead to account suspension if you persist. Pretty sure that is a terms of use violation or very close to one.
Perfectly logical staement by PJS1. And this is true in most settings other than those where the BS quotient is high.
I aim to please, you aim too, PLEASE!
BaltACDThe urination is above the top of the rail.
Lol. Yup, I have to show that previous post to my manager next time I drop in for a visit. I can hear him now. "Do that and your fired"....lol.
The urination is above the top of the rail.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Jones1945I have been "dealing" with this country for more almost 40 years, I HEARD that the corruption trick of the "ghost towns" is actually very simple to understand. This kinds of materials is not even something considered as secret in China and was reported by "Chinese version CNN" many times. But before I reveal the detail, folks from the US might need to take away your private ruler of America first OR people might never can fully understand this interesting "Communist" country by measuring it with US standard. Firstly, the leader group of some 3rd or 4th tier towns or villages; you could call them the local government ; formed a company (yes it is allowed in China) and request loan or "development funding" from the local bank (keep in mind that all the banks in China except Hong Kong and Macau are owned and controlled by different ranks of communist party members) for massive, unnecessary housing and commercial projects with zero or very limited investment value like those you see in the clips. After these projects are being approved by the Provincial government (of course the will approve them, wink wink), the local government received the loans or funding; some of the money will be "shared" by the local government officials, some of them used to employ project consultants, engineers, architecture firms, construction companies and everyone involved in this kind of project. It was a trick to handle the problem of Excess Capacity and ensure a low employment rate in China a few years ago. Now you would ask how are these local governments repaying the loans to the bank? the answer is NO NEED. Google "Chinese local governments highly indebted" if you are really interested in this topic. But remember, China is not North Korea nor America, they still have numerous ways to write off the debt under the table or behind the front door without going too far. How about the empty cities? No big deal ! because there are plenty of lands in China...This is the version I heard. Did the Chinese Communist Party try to stop this phenomenon? Yes. But this is a train forum, I think it is time to get off the train of digressing.
I believe your missing part of the story as well. Chinese investors (ie: ordinary Chinese Citizens) that are investing their own money in these Real Estate projects. Which makes it a real estate bubble of the kind we should be concerned about.
charlie hebdoYou seem to devalue/distort the Supreme Court ruling, perhaps in your zeal to attack accounting firms, especially those who "go rouge" (sic!) and with lipstick? [from Wiki] "On May 31, 2005, in Arthur Andersen LLP v. United States, the Supreme Court of the United States unanimously reversed Andersen's conviction because of serious errors in the trial judge's jury instructions.The Supreme Court held that the instructions were too vague to allow a jury to find that obstruction of justice had occurred. The court found that the instructions were worded in such a way that Andersen could have been convicted without any proof that the firm knew it had broken the law or that there had been a link to any official proceeding that prohibited the destruction of documents. The opinion, written by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, also expressed skepticism of the government's concept of "corrupt persuasion"—persuading someone to engage in an act with an improper purpose without knowing that the act is unlawful."
I am sorry but I was not working with any Supreme Court Justices at the Enron Subsidiary that IBM Consulting had a contract with. If they were working with me they had the robes off and were undercover. I did see Anderson Consulting employees move into Enron Executive positions and consult with both Anderson Consulting and Arthur Andersen sometimes in the same day. Which is not OK with me. Anyway I am not going down this path further as I stated way off topic at this point and I shouldn't have even responded to this.
P.S.: The above is commenting on technical details on how the case was presented to the Jury not if the overall case had merit or not.
charlie hebdoOn the whole, I trust the opinions of a trained and very experienced corporate accountant on questions relating to accountancy over those of a former sandwich shop operator or even those of a retired dispatcher. Experts have far more credibility than those lacking any training or hands-on experience.
Thats pretty funny...
You have no idea and your going to pretend you have enough info to pick sides.
BaltACDAccounting 'gurus' are just as boring arguing technical accounting details as are engineers arguing technical engineering details. Just saying.
But at least some of the time the engineering details can continue to be relevant to something on a railroad forum after a post or two.
PJS1How long were you employed or have been employed by any accounting firm? Calling some naïve is a sure-fire way to shut down a discussion.
Deggesty Perhaps these are Potemkin cities? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village Highlight it and do a right click.
Perhaps these are Potemkin cities?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village
Highlight it and do a right click.
Not entirely correct, it is much more complicated than Potemkin cities.
I have been "dealing" with this country for more almost 40 years, I HEARD that the corruption trick of the "ghost towns" is actually very simple to understand. This kinds of materials is not even something considered as secret in China and was reported by "Chinese version CNN" many times. But before I reveal the detail, folks from the US might need to take away your private ruler of America first OR people might never can fully understand this interesting "Communist" country by measuring it with US standard.
Firstly, the leader group of some 3rd or 4th tier towns or villages; you could call them the local government ; formed a company (yes it is allowed in China) and request loan or "development funding" from the local bank (keep in mind that all the banks in China except Hong Kong and Macau are owned and controlled by different ranks of communist party members) for massive, unnecessary housing and commercial projects with zero or very limited investment value like those you see in the clips. After these projects are being approved by the Provincial government (of course the will approve them, wink wink), the local government received the loans or funding; some of the money will be "shared" by the local government officials, some of them used to employ project consultants, engineers, architecture firms, construction companies and everyone involved in this kind of project. It was a trick to handle the problem of Excess Capacity and ensure a low employment rate in China a few years ago.
Now you would ask how are these local governments repaying the loans to the bank? the answer is NO NEED. Google "Chinese local governments highly indebted" if you are really interested in this topic. But remember, China is not North Korea nor America, they still have numerous ways to write off the debt under the table or behind the front door without going too far. How about the empty cities? No big deal ! because there are plenty of lands in China...This is the version I heard. Did the Chinese Communist Party try to stop this phenomenon? Yes. But this is a train forum, I think it is time to get off the train of digressing.
Back to the topic. I note forum member thinks that long-distance train travel still has future in the States, my thought is definitely yes. The high-speed railway between Beijing and Shanghai which is China's most profitable high-speed railway measures 1,318km (819 miles) reported a 31 billion RMB net operating profit from 2014 to 2017 ( Average 1.6 billion USD per year): Note how crowded was the train in the video. But the population of both Countries is very different, train like The Rocky Mountaineer would fit better in the States. But the facilities of Chinese HSR could be used for reference for the new Acela train.
Business Class / Parlour car - Beijing to Tainjin
2nd Class - Beijing to Shanghai
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
PJS1 The large accounting firms have thousands of employees. On occasion a few of them go rogue.
On the whole, I trust the opinions of a trained and very experienced corporate accountant on questions relating to accountancy over those of a former sandwich shop operator or even those of a retired dispatcher. Experts have far more credibility than those lacking any training or hands-on experience.
PJS1Calling some naïve is a sure-fire way to shut down a discussion.
Discussion going nowhere for reason stated and it's way off topic. I made my point 2-3 posts ago. Time to move on.
CMStPnPThe whole reason we have a Big Four instead of a Big Five runs directly counter to your rather naive assertions about Big Business Accounting Firms.
Accounting 'gurus' are just as boring arguing technical accounting details as are engineers arguing technical engineering details. Just saying.
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