Sleeping cars as part of an hotel chain

[Backshop]

BaltACD

30% of your gross income just to have a place to lay your head.  That defines subsistance existance.  You guys and gals really want to Lord it over those that work for a living and put them in their place.

 

Yeah, that all started about 30 years ago when someone decided that we were a "service economy" and anyone who had to use their hands and get dirty for a living wasn't worth anything.

[BaltACD]

30% of your gross income just to have a place to lay your head.  That defines subsistance existance.  You guys and gals really want to Lord it over those that work for a living and put them in their place.

[PJS1]

alphas

........ There are localized "ritzy" areas but there are far more blue collar [or worse] areas nearby.  .......That's enough for a decent income for a single person in most of Florida. 

At $20 an hour, assuming a 40-hour week, wages would be $41,600 a year or $3,467 a month before taxes, etc.  In addition, Brightline probably offers a health insurance package, which is jointly funded by the company and the employees, as well as a 401k.

 

The median gross rent in Miami, one of Brightline’s end points, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, is approximately $995 a month.  This is easily under the 30 percent limit recommended by many financial planners for rental housing.  What one gets for $995 a month, however, is unknown.

 

The median gross rent for an apartment in West Palm Beach, which is Brightline’s other end point, is approximately $1,096 per month.  It is approximately 32 percent of the gross wage of $3,467 per month.

 

Assuming the on-board Brightline Train employees live within a reasonable commuting distance of Brightline’s end points, $20 an hour is doable.  Also, if they live on the edges of Miami and/or West Palm Beach, they may find cheaper rents, although not necessarily.  The cheaper rents may be in the cities because they have more older apartments. 

 

BTW, the median gross rent New York City is $1,294 a month.  What?  Well, clearly not in most areas of Manhattan or in Brooklyn Heights.  But there are areas in Brooklyn, where I lived for many years, as well as Queens and Staten Island, where rents are reasonable.  Moreover, one can live without a car in NYC, which means he or she would have more money for rents.

[BaltACD]

CMStPnP

 

BaltACD

And one of the resons for the poor ratings of Florida's public school systems.  You tend go get what you pay for. If you don't pay much, you don't get much. 

We are getting way off the subject of trains but we can do a whole thread on this.   Yes, teachers are screwed in pay but it is primarily because of our school year.   Make the school year and entire year and boost the pay up 25-30% for the missing months of work (I don't want to hear about inservice days).    We are paying too much for K-12 education in this country (comparing to other countries and results) and I am sure it is due to the Administrative overhead and costs due to foolish spending..... not teachers.    Anyways........all this is off topic.

Whenever you don't value the goods and services you recieve you are by defination not valuing those individuals that make the goods or provide the services.  Those goods and services are vital to keeping, you, and the country functioning.  Discount the value of those goods and services and the country suffers.

[CMStPnP]

BaltACD

And one of the resons for the poor ratings of Florida's public school systems.  You tend go get what you pay for. If you don't pay much, you don't get much.

We are getting way off the subject of trains but we can do a whole thread on this.   Yes, teachers are screwed in pay but it is primarily because of our school year.   Make the school year and entire year and boost the pay up 25-30% for the missing months of work (I don't want to hear about inservice days).    We are paying too much for K-12 education in this country (comparing to other countries and results) and I am sure it is due to the Administrative overhead and costs due to foolish spending..... not teachers.    Anyways........all this is off topic.

[CMStPnP]

charlie hebdo

Could you actually show us that information?  The website under jobs lists many jobs, including assistant onboard services manager and assistant F&B services manager, select attendant and cafe attendant, but the payscales are not listed. In FL, the starting pay for teachers is $37,405, which would be less than what you say is the cafe car worker's pay would be, the latter not even requiring a high school diploma. Rather misplaced values, IMO.

Doh!   They got rid of the pay and compensation links.........maybe Virgin is redoing the pay scale to make it more inline with theirs.   It was 38 or 39k a year for full time cafe car attendent  (it wasn't 44k and thats why i said slighly less than half).    Which is more than the teachers salary of course but Verizon Inside Sales in a Call Center starts at $40-42k a year plus commissions and it is them just hiring people off the street with high school degrees and training them.

One thing you can do here is try to equiviquate with VIRGIN TRAINS in the UK via the Glass Door Application.    I checked Glass Door for Brightline but nothing there apparently too new as a company.   UK pay is not going to match exactly pay in the United States or in benefits because the unemployment rate in the UK is so much higher they can offer lower there plus you have govt subsidies with health care and such..........also translating into lower pay in the UK. 

[BaltACD]

charlie hebdo

In FL, the starting pay for teachers is $37,405, which would be less than what you say is the cafe car worker's pay would be, the latter not even requiring a high school diploma. Rather misplaced values, IMO.

And one of the resons for the poor ratings of Florida's public school systems.  You tend go get what you pay for. If you don't pay much, you don't get much.

I never ceases to amaze me that those 'with money' think that those who perform services and actions that the monied folk either lack the ability or desire to perform should do these tasks for a pitance in remuneration for their labor.

[alphas]

The idea that everywhere Brightline operates is "ritzy" is not correct.    There are localized "ritzy" areas but there are far more blue collar [or worse] areas nearby.    If Brightline is paying about half of what Amtrak pays for these same workers that's around $20 an hour plus tips.    That's enough for a decent income for a single person in most of Florida.    If the attendent is married, the odds are good there's also a second income coming into the household.    As for their qualifications, its doubtful that the cafe cars need fully trained chefs.     Competent food preparers & handlers will do.     Just because Amtrak apparently overpays some of its food service workers doesn't mean all others have to do so. 

[charlie hebdo]

CMStPnP

 

 

PJS1

According to Amtrak's IG Report # OIG-A-2014-001, Page 22, the average pay with benefits for Amtraks on-board food and beverage servers was $41.19 per hour or $88,970 annually in 2012.  This strikes me as a living wage, especially given that the skill sets to serve food and beverages on an Amtrak train are not high.

 

 

Now go to the Brightline website under jobs and look at what they pay a cafe car attendent..........about half or less than half of the above and without the financial severance payments as well. 

 

Could you actually show us that information?  The website under jobs lists many jobs, including assistant onboard services manager and assistant F&B services manager, select attendant and cafe attendant, but the payscales are not listed.

In FL, the starting pay for teachers is $37,405, which would be less than what you say is the cafe car worker's pay would be, the latter not even requiring a high school diploma. Rather misplaced values, IMO.

[BaltACD]

alphas

Florida has no income taxes and can be reasonable as far as living expenses go [except for most of the Keys and ritzy areas that are mainly in or around cities].   Assuming Brightline cafe car attendents get tips and decent medical coverage, they will be making a pretty good living.   Brightline will have no problems filling the positions.    

Considering that, at present, Brightline operates in the 'ritziest' area of Florida what you will get for 1/2 Amtrak food service wages will be Mickey D's burger flippers clambering one more small step up the ladder to being able to support a family at a level just above subsistance.  There are a lot of Mickey D's burger flippers so there is a large pool minimum wage labor available to support the Ritz.

[alphas]

Florida has no income taxes and can be reasonable as far as living expenses go [except for most of the Keys and ritzy areas that are mainly in or around cities].   Assuming Brightline cafe car attendents get tips and decent medical coverage, they will be making a pretty good living.   Brightline will have no problems filling the positions.    

[CMStPnP]

PJS1

According to Amtrak's IG Report # OIG-A-2014-001, Page 22, the average pay with benefits for Amtraks on-board food and beverage servers was $41.19 per hour or $88,970 annually in 2012.  This strikes me as a living wage, especially given that the skill sets to serve food and beverages on an Amtrak train are not high.

Now go to the Brightline website under jobs and look at what they pay a cafe car attendent..........about half or less than half of the above and without the financial severance payments as well. 

[PJS1]

Overmod

...... Amtrak OIG have numbers for the janitorial staff that actually turn the trains in places like Sunnyside?  

Not that I am aware of! 

 

According to Indeed, which is a job site, the average pay for an Amtrak car cleaner is $36,592 per year or approximately $17.60 an hour assuming a 40-hour week.  It is not clear whether they are employed by Amtrak or are contract employees.  If they are employed by Amtrak, you can safely add another 30 to 40 percent on top of the $36,592 for health insurance, pension funding, etc.

 

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average wage for a cleaning person in the New York Metropolitan area is $19.30 per hour or $40,144 a year based on a 40-hour week.  Wages for cleaning persons range from $18.56 to $23.49 per hour.  Again, in Amtrak's case, it would be necessary to add 30 to 40 percent for the HR overheads.

 

These numbers are for 2017.  They are specific to New York – New Jersey.  They include but are not restricted to hotel housekeeping employees.

 

Unless you are living at home or have a partner with a similar income, living on the aforementioned numbers in NYC would be tough.  

 

According to the data on Indeed, 83 percent of Amtrak’s workers believe that they are paid fairly. 

[Overmod]

PJS1

According to Amtrak's IG Report # OIG-A-2014-001, Page 22, the average pay with benefits for Amtraks on-board food and beverage servers was $41.19 per hour or $88,970 annually in 2012.

Does the Amtrak OIG have numbers for the janitorial staff that actually turn the trains in places like Sunnyside?  That would be the comparison here, I think.

Even though there is something of an aura of Pentagon hammers about the union-assisted wage level given for servers, we've discussed in other threads why full-time employees tasked with restaurant service might be paid a higher effective wage. 

I would also have to insist that much higher actual standards of service be met, regularly, than appear to have been present on a great many LD trains recently, if that level of wage is to be sustained under the conditions Anderson has been set.  Remains to be seen how the great pending battle first with the Amtrak representative unions (principally UNITE HERE in this context) and then with national lobbying-level organizations like SEIU will play out...

[PJS1]

Overmod

 And why not for finding, training, qualifying and paying a living wage to the staff that cleans and turns the trains ... perhaps for some of the traveling hospitality staff as well? 

According to Amtrak's IG Report # OIG-A-2014-001, Page 22, the average pay with benefits for Amtraks on-board food and beverage servers was $41.19 per hour or $88,970 annually in 2012.  This strikes me as a living wage, especially given that the skill sets to serve food and beverages on an Amtrak train are not high.

According to Richard Andeson, Amtrak just signed new labor contracts with its unions, which cover 85 percent of Amtrak's employees.  The on-board servers, as well as coach and sleeper attendants, will get an increase in pay and benefits over the life of the contract.

[Overmod]

daveklepper

The hotel above the coach yard is then responsible for mattresses, sheets, pillows, pillow-cases, blankets, soap, paper towels, cloth towels, toilet paper, give-aways.

And why not for finding, training, qualifying and paying a living wage to the staff that cleans and turns the trains ... perhaps for some of the traveling hospitality staff as well?

 

[daveklepper]

Air rights over coach yards where located in accessable parts of a city.   Ams is being done with Sunnyside, Long Island.  The hotel above the coach yard is then responsible for mattrases, sheets, pillows, pillow-cases, blankets, soap, paper towels, cloth towels, toilet paper, give-aways.

Maybe, with such a program, sleeping car passengers will get decent blankets again!