Amtrak 501 Derail in Washington State

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 8:15 AM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
 
BaltACD
 
243129
And reward them for their arrogance? 

On your tombstone will be engraved - 

'Here lies 243129 - He had a plan, Amtrak wouldn't buy it.' 

On your tombstone will be engraved -

'Here lies BaltACD- When confronted he runs and hides.'

 

I'm not buying your training program either.

 

My training program is not for sale as you intimated. Now to get back on topic.

Tell us about your time you say you spent in the 'trenches'. What was your function and how long did you stay there?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 08, 2018 8:57 AM

I have related aspects of my 51 1/2 year career in my 14K+ posts.  Read them.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by n012944 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 9:09 AM

243129

 

 
n012944

 

 
243129

 

 
VOLKER LANDWEHR

 

 
243129
If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al.

 

That is not how the management world works. Here in my country, Germany, many large companies train managers with personnel responsibility how to handle mistakes without degrading people.

You may get the attention when, figuratively speaking, kicking their shinbone with your letters. They are attentive but not in the mood you want them. You drove them into a defensive position where they will only try to justify/defend the Amtrak training program.

Why don't you send them your program? After all you say that it is all about Amtrak safety. So why care, if Amtrak calls it its own, when it improves the safety?
Regards, Volker

 

 

 

And reward them for their arrogance?

 

 

 

According to you, their "arrogance" is getting people killed.  Wouldn't you be rewarding the potential victims?  Don't you have the moral responsiblity to do everything in your power, even if you don't the credit, to do everything in your power to "save" them?

 

 

 

Does not Amtrak have the moral responsibility pay attention to the warnings and entertain the offer of help?

 

They had a meeting with you, so they entertained the offer.  You left early, without telling them about your magic beans.

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 9:16 AM

BaltACD

I have related aspects of my 51 1/2 year career in my 14K+ posts.  Read them.

 

Your Trump-like dodge indicates doubt about your alleged time 'in the trenches'.

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 9:22 AM

n012944

 

 
243129

 

 
n012944

 

 
243129

 

 
VOLKER LANDWEHR

 

 
243129
If they showed interest they would get more specifics.This presentation was made before the 501 incident. They were warned and they did not take heed. There will be more incidents like Chatsworth, Frankford, Dupont et al.

 

That is not how the management world works. Here in my country, Germany, many large companies train managers with personnel responsibility how to handle mistakes without degrading people.

You may get the attention when, figuratively speaking, kicking their shinbone with your letters. They are attentive but not in the mood you want them. You drove them into a defensive position where they will only try to justify/defend the Amtrak training program.

Why don't you send them your program? After all you say that it is all about Amtrak safety. So why care, if Amtrak calls it its own, when it improves the safety?
Regards, Volker

 

 

 

And reward them for their arrogance?

 

 

 

According to you, their "arrogance" is getting people killed.  Wouldn't you be rewarding the potential victims?  Don't you have the moral responsiblity to do everything in your power, even if you don't the credit, to do everything in your power to "save" them?

 

 

 

Does not Amtrak have the moral responsibility pay attention to the warnings and entertain the offer of help?

 

 

 

They had a meeting with you, so they entertained the offer.  You left early, without telling them about your magic beans.

 

They indicated no interest and only preferred to talk about their program no matter the alternative I presented to them. They felt quite smug in that their 'state of the art' training regimen was to be the be all to end all for locomotive engineer training.

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Posted by n012944 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 9:23 AM

243129

 

 
BaltACD

I have related aspects of my 51 1/2 year career in my 14K+ posts.  Read them.

 

 

 

Your Trump-like dodge indicates doubt about your alleged time 'in the trenches'.

 

 

No doubt here, he has posted many times about his time in the field.  If you are too lazy to look those posts up, your loss.  

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Posted by VOLKER LANDWEHR on Sunday, July 08, 2018 9:53 AM

I don't understand how time in the trenches matters in this diskussion? Even if he had none it wouldn't matter in this discussion.

It just seems to be one attempt to put people into a defensive position or belittle them when you are running out of arguments.

This discussion, the letters, your description of the meeting with Amtrak show that time in the trenches hasn't taught you the capabilities necessary to work together with Amtrak's management for better safety.

These capability are mostly conveyed to managers. They are called cultural skills, working with people of different cultures e.g. Germans with Americans or blue collar with white collar.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 11:57 AM

n012944

 

 
243129

 

 
BaltACD

I have related aspects of my 51 1/2 year career in my 14K+ posts.  Read them.

 

 

 

Your Trump-like dodge indicates doubt about your alleged time 'in the trenches'.

 

 

 

 

No doubt here, he has posted many times about his time in the field.  If you are too lazy to look those posts up, your loss.  

 

I have a life other than in this forum so I'm not going to sort through 14000 + posts for an answer that might not be there.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, July 08, 2018 2:13 PM

243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

At least three letters/warnings, none with even a rough, bullet point summary of a proposed program.  And telling later recipients that you walked out of a meeting is not the way to get a fair hearing.  I will assume you were a skilled engineer.  And I will even assume you had a good training/supervision proposal.  But you clearly need help/coaching from someone experienced in making effective, persuasive corporate presentations.  It is also a skill that requires training and experience.  I would strongly encourage you to seek it.

 

 

 

Dale Carnegie I am not. I'm not about to kiss anyone's ass to get them to listen to me. They have been warned and I have left a paper trail. They have chosen not to listen. After the next disaster, and there will be one, I will blitz the media,FRA ,Congress and the NTSB with all the pertinent correspondences.

 



No you are not Dale Carnegie.  You admit you have no public speaking skills to persuade others and refuse to learn them (it starts from within, BTW).  That says pretty clearly (as Volker said, AFAIK) that you are more interested in bolstering your ego than increasing safety and that you don't actually have a program.

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Posted by matthewsaggie on Sunday, July 08, 2018 2:18 PM

This has become 5+ pages of a pissing contest. Time to lock it and wait for the NTSB report, then start a new thread. Good day.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 08, 2018 3:28 PM

The horse has definitely been flayed.

Johnny

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Sunday, July 08, 2018 3:44 PM

matthewsaggie

This has become 5+ pages of a pissing contest. Time to lock it and wait for the NTSB report, then start a new thread. Good day.

 

   Hey, we haven't even got to the point where the quotes in quotes have reached one letter per line yet.   Keep on plugging away.

_____________

   "A stranger is just a friend you ain't met yet."  ___ Dave Gardner

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, July 08, 2018 4:30 PM

Deggesty

The horse has definitely been flayed.

 

It amuses me that some folks feel the need to make remarks in a discussion to which they are not contributing to or inolved in.

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, July 09, 2018 1:04 AM

matthewsaggie

This has become 5+ pages of a pissing contest. Time to lock it and wait for the NTSB report, then start a new thread. Good day.

Thumbs Up

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, July 09, 2018 6:39 AM

243129

 

 
Deggesty

The horse has definitely been flayed.

 

 

 

It amuses me that some folks feel the need to make remarks in a discussion to which they are not contributing to or inolved in.

 

 

I agree.  If you whiners don't like this thread (which was ending on its own) ignore it instead of calling for it to be locked?  

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, July 09, 2018 7:58 AM

charlie hebdo
 
243129

 

 
Deggesty

The horse has definitely been flayed.

 

 

 

It amuses me that some folks feel the need to make remarks in a discussion to which they are not contributing to or inolved in.

 

 

 

 

I agree.  If you whiners don't like this thread (which was ending on its own) ignore it instead of calling for it to be locked?  

 

Whiners indeed.  If you can't get someone to back down on their point of view, you can always get the last word by provoking the moderator to lock the thread.  The "beating a dead horse" complaint is a red herring thrown up by people who can't get their way in a discussion.  They have no problem beating dead horses when it comes to Hunter Harrision. 

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Posted by 243129 on Monday, July 09, 2018 11:38 AM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

At least three letters/warnings, none with even a rough, bullet point summary of a proposed program.  And telling later recipients that you walked out of a meeting is not the way to get a fair hearing.  I will assume you were a skilled engineer.  And I will even assume you had a good training/supervision proposal.  But you clearly need help/coaching from someone experienced in making effective, persuasive corporate presentations.  It is also a skill that requires training and experience.  I would strongly encourage you to seek it.

 

 

 

Dale Carnegie I am not. I'm not about to kiss anyone's ass to get them to listen to me. They have been warned and I have left a paper trail. They have chosen not to listen. After the next disaster, and there will be one, I will blitz the media,FRA ,Congress and the NTSB with all the pertinent correspondences.

 

 

 



No you are not Dale Carnegie.  You admit you have no public speaking skills to persuade others and refuse to learn them (it starts from within, BTW).  That says pretty clearly (as Volker said, AFAIK) that you are more interested in bolstering your ego than increasing safety and that you don't actually have a program.

 

 

No public speaking skills are required. My hiring and training plan would sell itself should someone choose to listen. It is Amtrak's ego that gets in the way not mine. Anyone with a modicum of operations experience would see the value contained. However those with the  aforementioned operations experience are few and far between on Amtrak today. Therein lies the problem.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, July 09, 2018 12:25 PM

Euclid

 

 
charlie hebdo
 
243129

 

 
Deggesty

The horse has definitely been flayed.

 

 

 

It amuses me that some folks feel the need to make remarks in a discussion to which they are not contributing to or inolved in.

 

 

 

 

I agree.  If you whiners don't like this thread (which was ending on its own) ignore it instead of calling for it to be locked?  

 

 

 

Whiners indeed.  If you can't get someone to back down on their point of view, you can always get the last word by provoking the moderator to lock the thread.  The "beating a dead horse" complaint is a red herring thrown up by people who can't get their way in a discussion.  They have no problem beating dead horses when it comes to Hunter Harrision. 

 

So true.  Or those whiners who erupt every few months about how dining cars should have 1950s menus and service at 1950s prices.

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, July 10, 2018 6:39 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/amtrak-engineer-called-trip-learning-experience-before-fatal-crash/ar-AAzTiGK?ocid=spartanntp

---snip---

"The engineer, Steven Brown, told the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in January he had failed to see signs warning of an impending reduction in the speed limit but tried to brake before the crash that killed three people near Seattle.

"This is a learning experience. I've never run this engine before," Brown told a conductor who was also in the locomotive during the trip, the transcript said."

 ---snip---

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 10, 2018 8:58 PM

rdamon

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/amtrak-engineer-called-trip-learning-experience-before-fatal-crash/ar-AAzTiGK?ocid=spartanntp

---snip---

"The engineer, Steven Brown, told the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in January he had failed to see signs warning of an impending reduction in the speed limit but tried to brake before the crash that killed three people near Seattle.

"This is a learning experience. I've never run this engine before," Brown told a conductor who was also in the locomotive during the trip, the transcript said."

 ---snip---

 

Poor vetting. Poor training. Poor supervision.

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 12:01 PM

243129

 

 

 
rdamon

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/amtrak-engineer-called-trip-learning-experience-before-fatal-crash/ar-AAzTiGK?ocid=spartanntp

---snip---

"The engineer, Steven Brown, told the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in January he had failed to see signs warning of an impending reduction in the speed limit but tried to brake before the crash that killed three people near Seattle.

"This is a learning experience. I've never run this engine before," Brown told a conductor who was also in the locomotive during the trip, the transcript said."

 ---snip---

 

 

 

Poor vetting. Poor training. Poor supervision.

 

That sure confirms what you have been saying about poor training.  The trip should not have been a learning experience, as the engineer said.  Is there a audio transcript or even a written transcipt of the conversations between the Amtrak engineer and conductor riding with him?  Can somebody post that?

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 2:58 PM

How about the poor vetting and poor supervision? It is obvious that guy did not possess the acumen  to become a locomotive engineer. How can supervision teach him if they don't know themselves. As I have said ad nauseam Amtrak has the unknowing teaching the unknowing. The tragic part is that no one gives a sh!t. I've said this before and I will say it again it's just a matter of time before the next disaster.

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Posted by ROBIN LUETHE on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 3:09 PM

That he couldn't find or see an expected slow down sign seems to indicate that he lost situational awareness. Doesn't an engineer have the right, even obligation, to slow down or stop if he/she is unaware. Would he have been disciplined if he had slowed down prematurely? Awareness that you have lost situational awareness is not necessarily a fault - the fault is in not immediately taking steps to recover that awareness.  

Whether in a car or my boat, when my navigation aids/maps are at odds my estimation of where I am, I slow down or stop until I figure out where I am. Surely engineers are allowed to do the same. 

And why aren't locomotives equipped with GPS to show them where they are? Boaters have switched over to this years ago.  Eyes looking ahead are the prime navigation tool, but GPS confirms that you are where you think you are. 

This is all written knowing nothing about being an engineer. Corrections will be welcomed. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:09 PM

ROBIN LUETHE

That he couldn't find or see an expected slow down sign seems to indicate that he lost situational awareness. Doesn't an engineer have the right, even obligation, to slow down or stop if he/she in unaware. Would he have been disciplined if he had slowed down prematurely? Awareness that you have lost situational awareness is not necessarily a fault - the fault is in not immediately taking steps to recover that awareness.  

Whether in a car or may boat, when my navigation aids/maps are at odds my my estimation of where I am, I slow down or stop until I figure out where I am. Surely engineers are allowed to do the same. 

"Loss of situational awareness" is new-speak for simply not paying attention to where one is.  It's a common enough occurence with veteran drivers familiar with routes, sometimes called "highway hypnosis" a transient dissociative state or also called a mild impairment in cognitive processing. We all experience this.  One is more vulnerable to this if suffering from ADHD, sleep apnea, sleep deprivation, medication and substance effects or other conditions.

I wonder if people who suffer from untreated ADHD might seek employment on the rails, as only a HS diploma is required?  

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Posted by ROBIN LUETHE on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 7:14 PM

Situational awareness is not 'new speak'. It is a standard navigation term in naval and aviation terminology. You can be totally paying attention, but if that attention is not to your current overall situation it can be fatal. The engineer was aware he could not see an expected speed reduction sign. He did not make the connection that he might have already gone past the sign. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:04 PM

ROBIN LUETHE
Situational awareness is not 'new speak'. It is a standard navigation term in naval and aviation terminology. You can be totally paying attention, but if that attention is not to your current overall situation it can be fatal. The engineer was aware he could not see an expected speed reduction sign. He did not make the connection that he might have already gone past the sign. 

National news today is about a Alaska bush pilot that flew his plane with 10 passengers out of the clouds and immediately into a mountain on a island.  Fortunately all 11 people survived.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:05 PM

ROBIN LUETHE

That he couldn't find or see an expected slow down sign seems to indicate that he lost situational awareness. Doesn't an engineer have the right, even obligation, to slow down or stop if he/she is unaware. Would he have been disciplined if he had slowed down prematurely? Awareness that you have lost situational awareness is not necessarily a fault - the fault is in not immediately taking steps to recover that awareness.  

Whether in a car or my boat, when my navigation aids/maps are at odds my estimation of where I am, I slow down or stop until I figure out where I am. Surely engineers are allowed to do the same. 

And why aren't locomotives equipped with GPS to show them where they are? Boaters have switched over to this years ago.  Eyes looking ahead are the prime navigation tool, but GPS confirms that you are where you think you are. 

This is all written knowing nothing about being an engineer. Corrections will be welcomed. 

 

It now seems that he did not lose his situational awareness. According to latest reports he never had any. This man was so grossly underqualified it is sickening. 14.5 miles of 'new' 79mph railroad with a 30 mph speed restriction and he did not know where it was? Who hired this guy? Who certified him qualified? These are the folks who are culpable along with Amtrak's training regimen.

The following was sent to numerous Amtrak officers, politicians and the media. All the ingredients for a 'perfect storm' are contained within. It was ignored.

July 24, 2014

Amtrak: An accident waiting to happen.....again.

I am a recently retired locomotive engineer. My career in engine service spanned the years 1963-2014. I started with the New York, New Haven and Hartford R.R. and after a series of takeovers and mergers I ended my career with Amtrak in 2014. I have experienced many different forms of railroad management techniques from five entities and I must say that Amtrak tops the list as the very worst.
Amtrak is an accident waiting to happen. I loosely compare Amtrak's 1983 takeover of operations on the Northeast Corridor (NEC) to Robert Mugabe's takeover of Rhodesia. Mugabe expelled the resident farmers and intellectuals who brought prosperity and technology to the country. Amtrak took over the NEC and installed their own management team eschewing input from the resident veterans. Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, continues to be in dire straits, their currency is worthless and their economy is a shambles. Amtrak is still employing the hit and miss, trial and error tactics it has utilized since inception accompanied by inept,wasteful managerial practices and to this day has still not achieved that which it is capable of. Until recently Amtrak has trundled along despite their inadequacies because their veteran workforce was there to 'bail them out'. That resource is now dwindling and it is showing in recent mishaps. That having been said it is time again to focus on Amtrak's hiring and training practices.
 During the past eight months Amtrak has had two major incidents,the latest with fatalities, that are a result of their hiring and training procedures coupled with grossly unqualified supervision. Since 2011 I have implored Amtrak management to review their training and hiring practices and use the knowledge and input of their dwindling veteran workforce to no avail. I have written to Chairman of the Board Carper, President Boardman, Vice Presidents of Operations Geary and Stadtler, Vice President of Transportation Phelps, Congressmen John Mica, William Shuster, Senator Charles Grassley, Robert Samuelson of the Washington Post, Brian Ross of ABC, Bill O'Reilly and others pleading with them to have Amtrak review their hiring and training procedures and listen to their seasoned veteran workforce. With the exceptions of Phelps and Stadtler I have been ignored. Phelps answered my letter to Boardman after I sent the same letter three times via registered mail return receipt requested. Stadtler patronized me with a visit to Philadelphia with those responsible for the training program where they very politely nodded their heads in faux concern at my presentation. Sensing their disinterest in what I had to say I called an end to the meeting citing that I felt it was an exercise in futility and took the next train back to New Haven.
I have stated repeatedly to all who would listen, and those listed above who did not, that with the right combination of these recently trained individuals it could be a prescription for disaster, a 'perfect storm' if you will.
They have ignored all warning signs of impending disasters. There was the incident in November 2013  of an inexperienced and obviously poorly trained crew wandering six miles in the wrong direction on a foreign railroad. Still Amtrak did not review it's training and qualification regimens. Then came Frankford Jct.(added 2016)
As a rule I try to refrain to telling anyone that 'I told you so' but after Frankford Jct. I felt that it was appropriate to do so in an effort to demonstratively drive home the fact that Amtrak's training and hiring programs are abject failures and downright dangerous. The following is my email of May15 2015 to Vice President of Operations D.J. Stadtler who has absolutely no previous experience in railroad operations. It was ignored


 
Mr. Stadtler:
The recent tragic event in North Philadelphia will have once again brought to light the inadequacies of Amtrak's training and hiring procedures. There are folks out 'there'still who have no business operating trains. Your training and hiring procedures, for lack of a better analogy, have come back to bite you in the ass once again. I had previously attempted to effect change by stressing the value and input of your veteran but aging remaining workforce to no avail.
I no longer work for Amtrak , I retired in July 2014 after 51 years in the operating department. That being said I still retain the esprit de corps instilled in me by my employer 50 plus years ago and I feel that I would like to help restore the professionalism that existed before Amtrak and it's cadre of inexperienced managers eroded that attribute. I have a template for hiring and training. Should you be interested in seriously entertaining my ideas, this time, I would be happy to impart them, once again, to you.
I have attached the presentation I made to CTO Nichols in December 2013  and my correspondence to then Vice President of Operations Richard Phelps for your perusal.
In one of my missives I made reference to a prescription for disaster, a 'perfect storm'if you will, which sadly seems to have come to fruition.      

This past week on my former home division there was another stop signal violation. The individual involved has an atrocious work record in his 3 year career as an engineer, it was the second stop signal violation in 13 months coupled with a forgotten passenger station stop (Mystic CT), overshooting others due to misjudgment, running over a derail on a track belonging to another railroad where he had no business being and sundry other miscues that were 'overlooked'. Where was supervision?
Amtrak has the unknowing teaching the unknowing. If one were to check the pedigree of these so called instructors one would find that they themselves have minimal experience. All of the technology such as Positive Train Control, speed control cab signal etc. cannot preclude proper training and experience because if those systems were to fail, and they do, 90% of the present operating workforce, including supervision, would not have a clue as how to operate.
I stand behind all I have stated here. I am supported by my fellow veteran railroad men. I can prove or qualify all that I have stated here and am prepared to do so. Hopefully this missive will find it's way to the proper authority and an oversight committee of experienced railroad operations employees can be established to set the proper guidelines for training personnel for railroad operations on Amtrak.

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Posted by VOLKER LANDWEHR on Thursday, July 12, 2018 4:41 AM

Amtrak has opened a docket regarding the July 10+11, 2018 hearings of the Cayce and DoPont accidents: https://t.co/E48qUFYYSq

It contains 169 documents. The list is too long to include it here.

In Human Performance Group Factual Report- DuPont, WA is some interesting information about the engineer. Sorry I haven't found a way to link the pdf directly. https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=464845&docketID=61332&mkey=96974

Click on view or download.

Excerpt from page 6/7: The Amtrak engineer, 55 years old, told investigators that on the day of the accident he felt healthy. The only medication he recalled taking in the days prior to the accident was ibuprofen for neck pain. He had previously been diagnosed with Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) and had been regularly using an at-home Continuous Positive Air Pressure (CPAP) machine for treatment, and used a portable CPAP machine when he stayed in a hotel. He had also been diagnosed and treated with medication for diabetes and high cholesterol.

The Operations and System Safety Group Factual Report - DuPont, WA contains a lot of information about safety aspects: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=464844&docketID=61332&mkey=96974

Excerpt from page 9: Amtrak Familiarization Training and Qualifications
The Lakewood Subdivision was new operating territory for Amtrak crews. Previously, trains between Portland and Seattle used an alternative route.

Amtrak crews began qualifying over the territory in November 2017, between TR Junction and Nisqually Junction. These trips were all performed during a ten-day period, all at night, due to continued line construction and Sound Transit's commuter schedule during daylight hours.

Amtrak managers required locomotive engineers to operate only one round trip over the subdivision to qualify on the territory.

Qualifying trips were conducted with Amtrak supervisors and locomotive engineers rotating between observing and operating from the lead locomotive and riding and observing from the trailing locomotive, observing in reverse. There were multiple locomotive engineers in both the lead and trailing locomotive during the qualifying trips.

Amtrak conductors, were not able to complete an observation trip from the lead locomotive due to the capacity constraints. Conductors were instructed to ride in the coaches or in the trailing unit to observe the territory for familiarization.
A ten-question Physical Characteristics test was given to locomotive engineers and a six-question test was given to the conductors to complete the qualification process on the Lakewood Subdivision.

Additional Factual Reports are from:
Locomotive Event Recorder Group: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=464846&docketID=61332&mkey=96974

Survival Factors/ Crashworthiness Group: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=464847&docketID=61332&mkey=96974

Materials Laboratory: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=465044&docketID=61332&mkey=96974

Onboard Image Recorder Group: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=465043&docketID=61332&mkey=96974

The last contains a few interesting photos of the foreward looking camera.

That is only a very small selection.
Regards, Volker

 

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 12, 2018 7:47 AM

This is addressed to all participants here.

So what conclusion do you draw from all of the above info?

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    May, 2015
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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 12, 2018 7:59 AM

The unknowing teaching the unknowing.

"The Amtrak Road Foremen for Engineers OJT told investigators that the engineer was very competent and conscientious, and he had no reservations about him.

The Assistant Superintendent Road Operations said that the engineer was safe and aware of what was going on."
 
 This engineer had absolutely no idea where he was and took no action to determine where he was. He had no clue of imminent danger. When he finally realized he was in trouble he did not even initiate an emergency  application of the brakes! Jonathan Hines and the assistant Superintendent along with the road foreman that certified/qualified the engineer could not determine that he was incompetent because they themselves are incompetent.

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