Whatever it is, please cover it with a hairnet ----- or a snood ----- or a bag.
Tom
Give it up, folks. We're 20 trillion in the hole.
GrampGive it up, folks. We're 20 trillion in the hole.
With over $80 Trillion in assets. Check the national wealth figures. Agree we need to get our budget house in order and pay down the National Debt because on a cash flow basis our annual GDP falls short of our National Debt. However we are still a ways away from flat broke...........and nothing like the situation Greece got itself into.
I'm not sure what you're saying, Gramp.
Are you implying that with a $20 trillion national debt we must give up our national network of long distance trains? That's what I'm inferring from your post. (And why the song lyrics?) We could, you know, raise taxes to pay that debt off sooner. Would you favor that?
I respect your point, but I disagree. The Amtrak subsidy each year is just so pitifully small that eliminating it entirely would hardly make a recognizable dent in the annual deficit.
What do we say to a proposed budget that calls for an increase in defense spending that is some 25 to 50 times the size of the Amtrak subsidy?
Sometimes these days in Amerika it's like living in Bismarck's Prussia: guns or butter. I know where guns gets us; I prefer butter.
What I'm saying is all it would take to swamp all government programs is a significant rise in interest rates. The cost of servicing the debt is not a can that can be kicked down the road. Servicing that can overwhelm everything else. All govt. programs are "a drop in the bucket" to those who benefit from them. I think we've lived too high on the hog. Fiscal restraint with dynamic incentive is what's needed. The 20 trillion is a drop in the bucket next to all that's been mandated. I love the LD trains as much as the next enthusiast. Unfortunately, Amtrak has been, is now, and always will be mediocre at best, a political football. The native son is left to the blues in perpetuity.
Gramp Give it up, folks. We're 20 trillion in the hole. Riding on the City of New OrleansIllinois Central Monday morning railFifteen cars and fifteen restless ridersThree conductors and twenty-five sacks of mailAll along the southbound odysseyThe train pulls out at KankakeeRolls along past houses, farms and fieldsPassin' trains that have no namesFreight yards full of old black menAnd the graveyards of the rusted automobiles Good morning America how are you?Don't you know me I'm your native sonI'm the train they call The City of New OrleansI'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done Dealin' cards games with the old men in the club carPenny a point ain't no one keepin' scorePass the paper bag that holds the bottleFeel the wheels rumblin' 'neath the floorAnd the sons of Pullman portersAnd the sons of engineersRide their father's magic carpets made of steamMothers with their babes asleepAre rockin' to the gentle beatAnd the rhythm of the rails is all they feel Good morning America how are you?Said don't you know me I'm your native sonI'm the train they call The City of New OrleansI'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done Nighttime on The City of New OrleansChanging cars in Memphis, TennesseeHalf way home, we'll be there by morningThrough the Mississippi darknessRolling down to the seaBut all the towns and people seemTo fade into a bad dreamAnd the steel rails still ain't heard the newsThe conductor sings his songs againThe passengers will please refrainThis train's got the disappearing railroad blues Good night, America, how are you?Said don't you know me I'm your native sonI'm the train they call The City of New OrleansI'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done Songwriters: Ilan Goldhirsh / Steve Goodman
Well Gramp, glad you like the song, but Steve Goodman was once my roommate in Champaign (before writing CNO) and he loved trains, as should be obvious from the lyrics. He was also a liberal.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
GrampWhat I'm saying is all it would take to swamp all government programs is a significant rise in interest rates. The cost of servicing the debt is not a can that can be kicked down the road. Servicing that can overwhelm everything else. All govt. programs are "a drop in the bucket" to those who benefit from them. I think we've lived too high on the hog. Fiscal restraint with dynamic incentive is what's needed. The 20 trillion is a drop in the bucket next to all that's been mandated. I love the LD trains as much as the next enthusiast. Unfortunately, Amtrak has been, is now, and always will be mediocre at best, a political football. The native son is left to the blues in perpetuity.
The National Debt is only a football that politics will pay lip service to - with no intent by either party to 'solve' it. It is just something else to argue about (like they need anything else). For anybody that thinks politicians actually care about the Nationl Debt - I've got some overpriced land I can use to liberate you from your funds.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
[/quote]
Steve wasn't my roommate, but I met him when we both lived in Chicago in the 70's. He didn't need no help from no Goldhirsh fella to write the song. He wasn't a raving railfan either, but he understood the social, economic, practical, and historic value of a vibrant rail passenger system, and he lamented its decline during his short lifetime.
Had he lived longer, I think he would have still been supporting a vibrant rail system. He understood that our country is rich and strong enough that we can have both bread and roses, and we might pay down that debt with fewer trips to Mira Lago, a bit less NY security for trump's family, serious tax reform, better control over influential lobbyists, and greater accountability for the politicians they control. When we have a military budget that exceeds that of any other country in the world by a wide margin, it seems pretty disingenuous to suggest that cuts to Amtrak will reduce the debt enough to justify the loss of this national asset.
You are free to disagree, but don't take Stevie's name in vain.
"I knew Jack Kennedy..."
No trouble. I know I'm an outlier. I happen to like Russell Kirk.
I prepared tax returns for a couple retiring schoolteachers this tax season; one teaches math, the other fourth graders. I asked them what's the difference teaching today compared with early in their careers. The math teacher said there's always a few kids who excel, but today if he gave tests with the same rigor he gave earlier in his career, the rest would not be able to pass them. The fourth grade teacher said kids' problems have to be worked with in the classroom. The parents won't own up to their responsibilities as parents. They think and act that they should be the kids' friends, not provide guidance.
Gramp "I knew Jack Kennedy..." No trouble. I know I'm an outlier. I happen to like Russell Kirk. I prepared tax returns for a couple retiring schoolteachers this tax season; one teaches math, the other fourth graders. I asked them what's the difference teaching today compared with early in their careers. The math teacher said there's always a few kids who excel, but today if he gave tests with the same rigor he gave earlier in his career, the rest would not be able to pass them. The fourth grade teacher said kids' problems have to be worked with in the classroom. The parents won't own up to their responsibilities as parents. They think and act that they should be the kids' friends, not provide guidance.
Relevance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ymsram2BDY&t=4m26s
wanswheel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ymsram2BDY&t=4m26s
Thanks, Wanswheel. I think that was from Austin City Limits. If I remember correctly, it included a truly great rendition of City of New Orleans in a duet with master mandolinist Jethro Burns, and more. Irrelevant? No more so than the parenting skills of modern Americans.
Relevance? Just that the zeitgeist (mood of our time) is entitlement, as is revealed by many posts here.
I AM holding out for the Texas Central.
I'll get out of your way now. Peace be with you.
GrampGramp wrote the following post yesterday: "I knew Jack Kennedy..."
Snide remarks are all guys like you have, since you clearly are poorly informed.
ACYSteve wasn't my roommate, but I met him when we both lived in Chicago in the 70's. He didn't need no help from no Goldhirsh fella to write the song. He wasn't a raving railfan either, but he understood the social, economic, practical, and historic value of a vibrant rail passenger system, and he lamented its decline during his short lifetime. Had he lived longer, I think he would have still been supporting a vibrant rail system.
+1
Steve was also a kind, generous guy iwho would give you his last dollar. Also witty (great laugh) and sarcastic.
have been mulling over answering the question of why i identified myself the way did.
an answer is the moral reason predominates in my trump letter.
and theatres do not show a profit on handicapped access ramps and elevators and listening systems.
ACYWhen we have a military budget that exceeds that of any other country in the world by a wide margin,
It's not the military budget that is preventing Amtrak from having a stable year to year funding source. Nor is the military budget crowding out Amtrak spending. It's lack of political support for a National Rail Passenger system which remains weak at best, even today. As I stated in numerous other threads. Only way you end up with a taxpayer subsidized Amtrak Corridor is with #1 Reliable year to year funding source. #2 Comprehensive support including the business community (Republicans will fall into line if you gain the support of business). #3 ongoing political support for the rail service among the broader electorate. If any one of those three items are missing, your rail corridor will not be successful.
Yes our military budget is larger than most other countries, primary reason is we have only one stable border among three at the moment. Two of our borders (Atlantic and Pacific) have opposing Navies that would like nothing more than to attack and conquer the United States. Our Southern border is a country whose loyalty to the United States was an open question in WWI and who even now attempts to openly subvert our border controls using various means to dump illegal immigrants outside their borders. Only Canada, which is in a military aliance with the United States maintains a relatively peaceful border.
Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up. This conversation may be trending in a direction we don't want to go.
ACY Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up. This conversation may be trending in a direction we don't want to go. Tom
Now, you are saying this?
Is there any remark on this thread past the first posting that is not of an outside-the-Forum-rules partisan-political nature?
Is anyone moderating the Trains Forums anymore? Are we free to engage in this kind of rule-bending back-and-forth? Until someone complains? And then can we get in a couple more rounds of comments before there is any response?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Please stop the negative political commentary. Or, we will lock the thread. Thank you. Enjoy your day.
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine
Paul Milenkovic ACY Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up. This conversation may be trending in a direction we don't want to go. Tom Now, you are saying this? Is there any remark on this thread past the first posting that is not of an outside-the-Forum-rules partisan-political nature? Is anyone moderating the Trains Forums anymore? Are we free to engage in this kind of rule-bending back-and-forth? Until someone complains? And then can we get in a couple more rounds of comments before there is any response?
It's pretty hard to carry on this discussion. Amtrak funding, and its very existence, are inextricably intertwined with politics. I just deleted a comment because I knew it wouldn't pass muster, but it's highly relevant to the discussion. If the political aspects of this are not to be discussed, we might as well forget the discussion altogether and let them win.
I guess I'll discuss it elsewhere.
ACY It's pretty hard to carry on this discussion. Amtrak funding, and its very existence, are inextricably intertwined with politics. I just deleted a comment because I knew it wouldn't pass muster, but it's highly relevant to the discussion. If the political aspects of this are not to be discussed, we might as well forget the discussion altogether and let them win. I guess I'll discuss it elsewhere. Tom
Your making a guess here. Would recommend you PM the Moderator and ask specifically what posts she thought went over the line and then ask the question you pose in your post about what the boundries are.
In my view she wrote fairly clearly. Discussing politics was not the issue, it was "negative politics"........I think the part referring to Rep Mica and his hair was over the line specifically or attacking others for their political views. Thats just my take on it, you should ask instead of assumming it was all directed at you and your last post......because location of the moderators comments has to be chronological..........they can't insert near the problem sections of the thread. So in a lot of cases the posters adjacent to the admonishment think the admonishment is directed at them......when it was intended for a larger crowd.
CMStPnP ACY It's pretty hard to carry on this discussion. Amtrak funding, and its very existence, are inextricably intertwined with politics. I just deleted a comment because I knew it wouldn't pass muster, but it's highly relevant to the discussion. If the political aspects of this are not to be discussed, we might as well forget the discussion altogether and let them win. I guess I'll discuss it elsewhere. Tom Your making a guess here. Would recommend you PM the Moderator and ask specifically what posts she thought went over the line and then ask the question you pose in your post about what the boundries are. In my view she wrote fairly clearly. Discussing politics was not the issue, it was "negative politics"........I think the part referring to Rep Mica and his hair was over the line specifically or attacking others for their political views. Thats just my take on it, you should ask instead of assumming it was all directed at you and your last post......because location of the moderators comments has to be chronological..........they can't insert near the problem sections of the thread. So in a lot of cases the posters adjacent to the admonishment think the admonishment is directed at them......when it was intended for a larger crowd.
Seems pretty clear the comment was directed at all who criticize the administration. And likely was prompted by a complaint to the moderators.
I have never heard of politics ever get discussed in a positive light. There are two or more sides that don't agree - especially with todays politicians. Changing rules on the fly because your side isn't getting its way. Every day I think it can't get any worse and then it does get worse.
No, the Moderator mentioned "negative political commentary". No mention was made if any ad hominem attacks about hair. If that were the case, I would admit that I may have croseed the line in a poor attempt at satire, and I would have moved on. Frankly, I think Mr. Mica invited insults with every one of his oft-repeated implications that Amtrak and its employees are so bad. I repeat, if we can't engage in negative political commentary in the context of Amtrak and politics, there's no point in having the conversation.
I wasn't going to make vain shoveling gestures toward draining the swamp, but
ACYNo, the Moderator mentioned "negative political commentary". No mention was made of any ad hominem attacks about hair.
Why should she? Ad hominems are forbidden in the TOS, so you should follow your own advice, 'move on', and develop the maturity to refrain from using them again.
Frankly, I think Mr. Mica invited insults with every one of his oft-repeated implications that Amtrak and its employees are so bad.
And you, of all the people on this forum, have the greatest right to resent those insults and their implications ... but, on the other hand, you also know firsthand just how ridiculous those implications are, for the most part, in reality. An old piece of wisdom says that an insult is only an insult if there is some truth to the allegations -- in this case, simple rejoinder with the facts is infinitely superior to demonstrating a common level of immaturity with the original fool.
I repeat, if we can't engage in negative political commentary in the context of Amtrak and politics, there's no point in having the conversation.
Oh, yes there is. There very much is.
But stick to the facts and opinions, and lose the snarky comments about comb-overs and faces of incarnate evil. They spoil what might have been very good, and acceptable (in the context of an Amtrak discussion) political discussions. Why be nattering nabobs of negativism or violators of Kalmbach TOS if sticking to the facts gets the job done better?
schlimmPositive political remarks sounds like a contradiction in terms, or like Pollyanna.
Thats a rather dark outlook on the issue. There are good politicians we have have several very good Democratic Mayors in Dallas.....the last good one, Laura Miller was afraid to tell folks she was a Democrat and instead would avoid the term. She would have been a great Governor or President but they could not get her to run for either office. Likewise as much as I disagree with Republican Congressman Sensenbrenner on some social issues. He is a nice man and highly intelligent. I have argued with him one on one via several town hall meetings in support of Amtrak. I respect him because his argument is consistent and well supported in most places........he is not making or parroting a special interest position. It is his own position.
Plus the guy used to rip on Father Dornan (D-MA??) big time at some of his town halls. Having a Roman Catholic Priest on the Democratic Congress side that was in favor of abortion.......irritated him to no end, it was kind of funny to watch and listen to.
CMStPnP Father Dornan
Close enough. Drinan.
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/07/drinan-obit.html
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.