Several of the folks who participate in the UT senior discussion groups, of which I am a part, have ridden trains in Europe. Usually just once! But they know all about it. Just ask them. I have never been to Germany. And I don't intend on going there. So I need some help from any forum participants who have been there and know what they are talking about.
One of the participants told me that the Germans have freight trains that run up to 200 mph. Really? Is that true?
Do the high speed passengers trains in Germany (IC and ICE), as well as France, Spain, etc., carry package express? If they do, I can see where someone who does not know the difference between a UPS package and a ton of steel might conclude that German freight trains, as well as others, blaze along at 200 mph, at least over some stretches of track.
By the way, what is the difference between an IC and ICE train?
Sam1 Several of the folks who participate in the UT senior discussion groups, of which I am a part, have ridden trains in Europe. Usually just once! But they know all about it. Just ask them. I have never been to Germany. And I don't intend on going there. So I need some help from any forum participants who have been there and know what they are talking about. One of the participants told me that the Germans have freight trains that run up to 200 mph. Really? Is that true? Do the high speed passengers trains in Germany (IC and ICE), as well as France, Spain, etc., carry package express? If they do, I can see where someone who does not know the difference between a UPS package and a ton of steel might conclude that German freight trains, as well as others, blaze along at 200 mph, at least over some stretches of track. By the way, what is the difference between an IC and ICE train?
Oh, boy....
Freight trains in Germany typically travel at 60-70 mph. There are some intermodal trains that'll get up to 100+ mph, but they are the exception, not the rule. There are no 200 mph trains of any kind in Germany. Most of the high speed trainsets are only good for 155 or 187 mph.
I saw no evidence that German passenger trains carry express traffic of any kind at all. In fact, I don't believe they even do checked baggage. There are racks for luggage and bikes on most trains, though.
IC train are intercity trains. Think Amfleet on the NEC and other corridors. Locomotive hauled with cab cars, variable consists. These go everywhere in Germany and connect to other European Cities. (EC trains)
ICE trains are intercity express trains. Think Acela. Dedicated train sets of equipment. They run on most of the popular intercity routes and use the newer sections of high speed track where it exists, but mostly on conventional track at the same speeds as the IC trains. They generally make fewer stops, though,and cost a bit more. They are very popular and often run on higher frequencies than the IC trains on the same route.
The vast majority of the route structure in Germany is what we would think of as conventional, although speeds are generally higher - in the 80 -100 mph range for a lot of it. Some conventional routes have been improved for 125-140 mph operation and some new 155-187 mph new links have been built. The conventional routes all operate mixed freight and passenger.
It's not that the freight trains can operate all that fast - a common misperception - it's the there is an incredible amount of "jewelry" in the infrastructure - power switches and signals everywhere. No creeping in and out of unsignaled sidings with mile long trains. Freight trains are typically about 2000 feet long. No holding the main while you double and pump air. Freight trains are dispatched from hump yard class tracks, which are signaled, as single block trains. And, generally, the HP/ton is high enough that the freight trains can hustle out of the sidings when they need to. The network has a lot more activity and precision than the US network, but it is built for it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I concur with Don. Your UT discussion group is quite misinformed. The DB passenger network is so smoothly integrated with local and regional services, that taking the train to go places is almost an instinctive choice, certainly a first option. In the past year or so there have been some service slowdowns primarily due to construction, but they remain fairly minimal. I believe Don found using the DB to be a very pleasant mode of travel recently. Having used it for years myself, I can only say you should try it yourself.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The ICE is a very pleasant way to travel, the new stretch between Ingolstadt and Nuremberg had speeds up to 300 kms an hour according to the screen at the end of the coach I was riding in last year. There are still baggage cars here and there but they're mainly on sleeper trains and the narrow gauge steam railways in the East as lots of people bring bicycles and back packs with them and there's no room for them in the coaches. The only system that can top Germany's is Switzerland which runs with the precision of, well, a Swiss watch.
schlimm I believe Don found using the DB to be a very pleasant mode of travel recently.
I believe Don found using the DB to be a very pleasant mode of travel recently.
Yes! Stunningly well integrated and simple to use. Can't wait to go back!
Sam, your tu student probably heard 200 and assumed it was MPH, not KPH. (A mistake that any teasip could easily make.)
I'm sorry that you seem intent in not trying the trains in Europe, based on your comment. Until you have tried the French, German, Swiss and even the Italian trains you have really missed something.
Oh boy, I think I need to set something straight here.
ICE trains in Germany are passenger only trains, no parcels, no freight. They consist of bespoke EMU´s and operate in a push-pull mode, with speeds up to 210 mph, in most case, however, not beyond 160 mph.
IC trains are pulled by a regular loco, with speeds up to 125 mph.
Freight trains are a different story. Very few trains top a speed of 50 - 60 mph, as most freight cars are not allowed to go faster. We still have a vast amount of those 2-axle boxcars in operation, and any speed higher than that would be suicidal.
Quite a number of our high speed lines have mixed traffic on them, hence the lower speed of the ICE trains on those lines.
All of Europe is linked with a network of high speed lines. The "new" European countries, like Hungary, Czech Republic and, to a degree, Poland, are improving their lines to be able to participate.
Top end trains are the French TGV and Thalys, the German ICE train and the Spanish AVE.
A maybe interesting side note: On April 3rd, 2007, a French TGV POS unit (modified) reached the world speed record, topping 350 mph! Seems as if the next step in high speed rail traffic is a regular speed of 300 mph - this would mean the end of inter-European flights.
matthewsaggie Sam, your tu student probably heard 200 and assumed it was MPH, not KPH. (A mistake that any teasip could easily make.) I'm sorry that you seem intent in not trying the trains in Europe, based on your comment. Until you have tried the French, German, Swiss and even the Italian trains you have really missed something.
I have limited travel dollars; therefore, I can only visit so many places. Rather than sample numerous locations around the world and, therefore, knowing just a little bit about them, I have chosen to concentrate my attention on Australia, where I lived for nearly five years. I know it as well as Texas. I go to Australia every year. It is a long airplane ride and makes a serious dent in my travel budget. Moreover, I prefer Asia to Europe.
My family stems from a mixed Jewish and Anabaptist culture. Both groups were persecuted in Germany and fled that country. I have no desire to visit Germany. I have, however, been to the UK four times. That is enough of Europe for me.
My fellow UT student insisted that she rode on a train that was doing 200 mph, even after I raised the possibility that it was 200 kph.
Sam1 My fellow UT student insisted that she rode on a train that was doing 200 mph, even after I raised the possibility that it was 200 kph.
There are a couple of line segments in Germany that are good for 187 mph and the ICE trains that run to Paris hit 200 mph in France.
On my trip to Germany, I found they are quite contrite and open about their past - much more so than southerners in the US, in my opinion. I plan on going back someday.
Lines with speeds shown here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ICE_Network.png
I would add that the French have a limited number of Postal TGVs that carry parcels between Paris and Lyon. They look like first generation TGVs except for paint and lack of windows on the intermediate cars.
The German Government took a page from the ICC and created a regulation stating that trainsets designed for high-speed service, defined as 250kph and above, must meet tougher standards. The natural reaction of DB when ordering its newest batch of Domestic ICEx units intended to replace 250kph ICE1 and ICE2 units over the next ten years was to specify a designed top speed of 249kph!
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