With all the talk of developing new Amtrak routes in IL, I am surprised as I have heard zero about a Chicago to Peoria train. Peoria is the 2nd largest city in IL, and the Rock Island route to Peoria would serve a number of decent size towns along the IL river. Comments?
Peoria should get some service, but it is actually only #7 in population of cities, although the metro area is #4. Perhaps a spur from either the CHI-STL line or the planned CHI-Quad Cities route?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The Chi-Quad Cities Route goes along the CB&Q to the Rock Island - but it joins the rock near Wyanet which is west of Bureau Junction where the Rock branch south toward peoria turns so using the CB&Q would probably not be feasible...
Using the old alton route you could take it to Chenoa and then turn west to Peoria - however with such a routing there are literally no sizeable population centers along the route between Joliet and Peoria.
I'd say the most feasible thing track wise would be to just take the Rock Island all the way to Peoria, and you cover some sizeable towns along the IL river that right now have no direct passenger service. A connector would have to be restored on between the Rock Island and Chicago and Western Indiana trackst at 79th street in order to let Amtrak access the rock directly with no backup moves.
Amtrak tried a Section 403 Chicago-Peoria run which used a GM&O-TP&W route. The State of Illinois contributed to the operation with an implied "use it or lose it" clause. The ridership never amounted to much and the train was discontinued.
The IaIs route would provide the most advantageous population density...Ottawa, LaSalle-Peru, Bureau Junction, Chillothe, Peoria using a corner of the former Rock Island station...now very much underutilized ...as the Peoria terminal.
The problem is upgrade to at minimum 49MPH to 79MPH. The Peoria branch is all dark railroad as is the old(IaIs) Rock island main to Bureau Jct-now part of CSX.
This route would make the most sence and cents.
I worked for IDOT at the time of the "Prairie Marksman" fiasco.as a 403(b) "experiment"...poor station location. poor promotion, great cooperation from then TP&W but destined to failure.
Other routings, granted quicker start up are all in the same kind of situation as the TP&W-GM&O route.None have the potential traffic-population density-as the pure "Rock Island route" The Peoria end of the route would require an agreement with Tazwell Peoria Ry(Genesse Wyoming) for the last 2 milesand an arrangement with the City of Peoria(Rock Island depot).
trainmaster1017 The IaIs route would provide the most advantageous population density...Ottawa, LaSalle-Peru, Bureau Junction, Chillothe, Peoria using a corner of the former Rock Island station...now very much underutilized ...as the Peoria terminal. The problem is upgrade to at minimum 49MPH to 79MPH. The Peoria branch is all dark railroad as is the old(IaIs) Rock island main to Bureau Jct-now part of CSX. This route would make the most sence and cents. I worked for IDOT at the time of the "Prairie Marksman" fiasco.as a 403(b) "experiment"...poor station location. poor promotion, great cooperation from then TP&W but destined to failure. Other routings, granted quicker start up are all in the same kind of situation as the TP&W-GM&O route.None have the potential traffic-population density-as the pure "Rock Island route" The Peoria end of the route would require an agreement with Tazwell Peoria Ry(Genesse Wyoming) for the last 2 milesand an arrangement with the City of Peoria(Rock Island depot).
Now while the tracks themselves would have to be upgraded to 79 mph running, the territory can still remain dark, correct? I'm guessing there's not all that much traffic there so Amtrak could possibly be accommodated on the dark territory....
Why not run on the BNSF line currently used for the SW Chief, CZ, Carl Sandberg and Illinois Zephyr, and switch to UP track near Buda down to Peoria?
schlimm Why not run on the BNSF line currently used for the SW Chief, CZ, Carl Sandberg and Illinois Zephyr, and switch to UP track near Buda down to Peoria?
Well you'd have to build a connector at Buda and plus you'd miss all the population centers along the IL river - you'd pretty much just get Peoria, with nothing interesting in between. The towns on BNSF already have lots of passenger rail service, especially with even more that's going to be added on the Quad Cities train.
If you take Rock Island trackage not only do you get Peoria, but a number of decent sized towns on the way there.
I'm suggesting a route that can be implemented cheaply and quickly. The RI route makes sense in other ways but the trackage is not adequate to run passenger service at any kind of speed. Clearly you cannot run trains on dark trackage. So to bring that route into service would be much more expensive. For what? To serve these population centers? You've got to be kidding. Ottawa is a nice town, with 18,000; Peru 10,000; LaSalle 10,000; Chillicothe 6,000; and Bureau Junction 368. All that money extra to serve less than 50,000 people.
You propose a totally new route to a city you claimed was #2 in Illinois, when it actually is #7. The cost would be high. When service was tried before, it didn't draw patronage. You ignore those factors. It's plans like that which kill support for passenger service.
schlimm I'm suggesting a route that can be implemented cheaply and quickly. The RI route makes sense in other ways but the trackage is not adequate to run passenger service at any kind of speed. Clearly you cannot run trains on dark trackage. So to bring that route into service would be much more expensive. For what? To serve these population centers? You've got to be kidding. Ottawa is a nice town, with 18,000; Peru 10,000; LaSalle 10,000; Chillicothe 6,000; and Bureau Junction 368. All that money extra to serve less than 50,000 people. It's plans like that one which kill support for passenger service.
I'm suggesting a route that can be implemented cheaply and quickly. The RI route makes sense in other ways but the trackage is not adequate to run passenger service at any kind of speed. Clearly you cannot run trains on dark trackage. So to bring that route into service would be much more expensive. For what? To serve these population centers? You've got to be kidding. Ottawa is a nice town, with 18,000; Peru 10,000; LaSalle 10,000; Chillicothe 6,000; and Bureau Junction 368. All that money extra to serve less than 50,000 people. It's plans like that one which kill support for passenger service.
I thought you could run passenger trains in dark territory though? Isn't the metra branch from Crystal Lake to McHenry IL dark territory? Sure, you're not going to get a lot of traffic density on dark territory, but does the RI line have so much traffic on it that being dark with passenger service be an issue?
If my memory serves me correctly, passenger trains are restricted to 59 MPH in unsignalled territory. Consequently, startup costs for a Chicago-Peoria train on the IAIS route would be appreciably higher.
The BNSF line has 7 Amtrak trains per day. One way to get a service (multiple trains per day as opposed to only one each way) to and from Peoria to Chicago would be to have a connecting train (DMU) running between Princeton (or Buda) and Peoria.
I rode the "Peoria Rocket" in 1973. In those days the Rock Island had a cafe car for breakfast and a private club parlor car. They sold a set of 6 Rock Island Logo whiskey glasses in the cafe car as a souvenir. I still have the set and use them regularly.
The Peoria section met up with the Rock Island section at Bureau. the Rock Island section carried a dome car built for the stillborn "Chessie" of the C&O. E6 #630 was often on the head end.
Ed Brylawski, Milford PA
Interesting thought on the connecting service. I wonder if anyone official has ever considered it.
This idea might work connecting Peoria to Bloomington as well.
CSSHEGEWISCH If my memory serves me correctly, passenger trains are restricted to 59 MPH in unsignalled territory. Consequently, startup costs for a Chicago-Peoria train on the IAIS route would be appreciably higher.
Your memory matches mine. Hopefully, we are not both delusional...
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Through the years, wouldn't people from Peoria most likely have taken the Santa Fe from Chillicothe to Chicago? What better rail service could you have asked for? Wouldn't that route be the preferred choice today?
Chillicothe to Chicago has only Streator as sizable market and there is no at-grade connection between the ex-SF main and the ex-RI. The SF crosses over the top the old RI as it comes off the Illinois River bridge.
There are bus connections along the I-74 corridor. Amtrak lists two each way that have reasonable connections with two trains a day.
I was thinking that Chillicothe would be the "Peoria " station. No train service from Chillicothe down the river (old Rock Island) into downtown Peoria. And that the train would originate in Galesburg. Looking at the primary market for service, I think it would be Peoria area residents traveling to Chicago in the morning, returning to Peoria from Chicago late afternoon. Looking at overall triptime, I think most residents would save their time driving to Chillicothe when compared to the time it would take to get to a Peoria station and for the train to travel to Chillicothe. Much additional cost of providing service to Peoria would be avoided, too. The speed allowed by the Santa Fe line would be attractive.
I rode the Peoria Rocket several times between Chicago and Peoria. Including two group trips with fellow high school students. (OK, that was a while ago.)
My last trip on the train was around 1975 with the Rock in banckruptcy for the 3rd and final time. The train still carried a diner lounge. I recall having a good steak meal with a salad and a glass of wine for around $7.00. By then the train was down to two coaches and the diner.
In the 1960s the Rock offered twice daily service on the route. The 7:00 AM depature from Peoria generally had a seven car consist powered by one E unit. (water level into Chicago along the Illlinois River) . The consist generally was two head end cars, including an RPO, three reclining seat coaches, a diner lounge named "Creve Coure Club" and a parlor car named "Peoria". I ate in the Creve Coure Club several times, but I never had a 1st class ticket to get in to the Peoria. In the late 60s the RPO was replaced by a TTX flatcar with one trailer load of mail. The TTX car was equiped with a steam line and was run right being the E unit.
The consist swelled before Christmas when people from central Illinois took the train to Chicago to shop at the Loop stores such as Marshal Fields. The Rock Island would add suburban coaches to the train to accomodate the extra passengers.
One day as a pre driving teen I was standing near the Peoria depot taking pictures of the E unit when the engineer came over to me, talked for a while, then gave me a tour of the engine. It was my only time inside a cab unit. I remember my glasses fogging over as I walked by the steam generator at the rear of the E.
A while ago an attempt was made to revive Peoria-Chicago passenger service by operating a train over the TP&W to the current Amtrak route at Chenoa, IL. The attempt was not a success.
1) It's just too easy to drive to Chicago and driving allows you to set your own schedule.
2) Most personal trips to the Chicago area are not destined to the Loop. People traveling from central Illinois are largely going to suburbs. This would reqire a train change in Chicago and still leave the traveler at a suburban train station instead of his/her destination. It's far easier to just drive.
3) People from central Illinois still go to the Chicago area for Christmas shopping. They go to suburban malls on chartered busses.
There would be a very limited market for a Peoria-Chicago passenger rail service. 38 miles to the east is Normal, IL, home of Illinois State University. There are five Amtrak trains per day between Normal and Chicago. 48 miles to the northwest is Galesburg, IL, home of Knox College. There are four Amtrak trains per day between Galesburg and Chicago. I'd say the area is adequately served. A Peoria proper service would have a very limited area to draw passengers from.
It would be great to see the old Peoria Rocket again. I just don't see it as being viable. They might try a bus connection at Normal. But I don't see that drawing many riders either.
Greetings,
This is my first time in this section so 1st hello. 2nd there are some other possibilities I'd like to toss out. Iowa and Interstate is upgrading the old Bureau line. However there is another possibility hiding in the bushes at Chillicothe. At one time heading North from Peoria the Rock Island had a spur coming off to the left and joining the Santa Fe main just east of the Chilli station. I have a picture of the Peoria Rocket and a SF switcher on this very line. Peoria to Chilli on the Rock. Chilii to Chicago on the Santa Fe.
Another would be run up the old C&NW now UP line. With a station in downtown Peoria the train would head south to the UP At Iowa Junction it would turn North to the Willow Knolls / Shops on the Prairie area where another station could be located. There used to be a CNW office at the yard limit there in the 1970's. I hear that area is building up. Then a connection onto either the old SF or CB&Q/Amtrak
One part of the Peoria Rockets downfall never mentioned was how bad the area around the Morton street station was after dark. If something could have been worked out with Sears on the parking there would have been no need to abandon the old RI station. Ah wishful thinking....
Decent, safe parking and fast running times would be important too. Maybe start with something like RDC types, with cabs on both ends. Something that could be MU'd together. I rode something like that into and out of London like that last year.
Thanks all for your time. I have been gone from Peoria for 26 years now but I really would like to see train service restored. I would hope for a Rocket return but I would not count on it. Good advertising would be important. Bear in mind also that Peoria seems to be moving North and West towards Dunlap.
Best Regards,
Bob
Modeling in N scale: Rock Island freight and passenger, with a touch of the following; Wabash Cannon Ball, CB&Q passenger, and ATSF freight and passenger. I played in Peoria (Heights).
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