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Fred W. Frailey: The curtain goes down on U.S. high speed rail

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Fred W. Frailey: The curtain goes down on U.S. high speed rail
Posted by schlimm on Friday, January 28, 2011 11:17 AM

Take a look at Fred Frailey's column in the recent Trains (check online if you are a subscriber).

Certainly not much room for optimism about HSR in the US.

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:28 AM

In reading the article, it's clear that Mr. Frailey not only means projects like California, but as the term "high speed" is defined by the FRA to include 110 mph upgrades.   In other words, projects such as Chicago/St Louis are included.

I'd like to believe he is just being provocative, but maybe he is saying what some of us have been thinking.  The thing I wonder about is the willingness of the administration to continue to spend funds that have already been appropriated in the face of a Congress that would not authorize such spending today. 

It's an interesting question.         

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, January 29, 2011 8:24 AM

The term "rescission" is being tossed around lately, as a way for the new House to recover unspent ARRA funds.  There is some internal debate in the GOP about this as well as whether to divert those dollars to other pet projects or reduce the deficit.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 29, 2011 9:38 AM

I have not heard anything on the Florida HSR since Scott said he does not want state money going into the project.  On one hand, you might expect the Fed to pull out of the Florida HSR, but it was to be their demo project, so the future of HSR would hang on the Flordia roll-out.  And the Fed already has a lot invested in Florida HSR.   

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:20 AM

There is no way to join this thread without it becoming political.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:32 AM

Joining a thread won't make it political. 

The only way to make a thread political is to push the "report abuse" button.   

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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:42 AM

California has one other option for there HSR and that is let China build and receive all of the monies from it for the first twenty years of operation. That has been discussed on severl occasions and may be the answer for HSR in other parts of the US.

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, January 29, 2011 8:11 PM

Americans are afraid of HSR because they believe the S stands for Socialism.   We can't have the government paying for High Speed Rail, now, if it means that someone else is gonna get a faster ride then me while I pay for it!

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, January 29, 2011 9:32 PM

The S does not stand for Socialism.  It stands for (non-)Sequitor.

There are TV shows I never watch, maybe I am not that interested, maybe model railroad club meets on the nights those shows are on.  "Boston Legal" is such a show, but I have been a fan of WIlliam Shatner since Star Trek, and out of curiosity I looked up the Wikipedia on his character Denny Crane.

It is explained that Denny Crane is the head of his law firm and a lawyer with a very high opinion of himself, taken with speaking out his name "Denny Crane!" to "remind people they are in the presence of greatness."  Part of the show and part of the development of the character is that Denny Crane starts to have "senior moments' -- perhaps simple mental lapses, perhaps early-onset senile dementia, perhaps a man who should have retired instead of keeping himself in charge of his law firm.  The running joke on the show, perhaps dark humor as it deals with a sad all-too-real-world subject of getting old and losing one's mental edge, is that the character blurts out "Denny Crane!" at odd and perhaps inappropriate moments.

The government at all levels appears to be broke right now.  My brother-in-law thinks the "Republicans in Congress are the worst kind of hypocrites for saying they want to cut spending given what had gone on (in the previous presidency when Republicans controlled three branches of government)."  The man believes that what he believes, and who is to say that he isn't right and the Republicans or Tea Party people or whoever are all hypocrites, but what is the correct action at this juncture -- to spend money we don't have on more projects, worthwhile they may be?  Yes we can borrow and run deficits, but when the accumulated deficit reaches around 100% of GNP, you are pretty much maxed out because the interest payments are going to bleed you white.

The President appeared before a Joint Session of Congress as is his duty under the Constitution, the sense of anticipation is in the air regarding what the President's vision of getting the fiscal house in order is going to be, and the President announces "High Speed Trains!", which under the circumstances is pretty much a non-sequitor. 

I used to believe Sam1 was being a scold and if there was a political will, one could always run up the deficit another notch to pay for one's "vision", but I am coming to the belief that the day of reckoning has arrived.  High Speed Trains!  The economy goes in cycles, and we will come out of this deep down cycle some day.  California is dead broke, but they are still talking "High Speed Trains!"  The Federal government is going down the road, and the President and Congress should be working together on . . High Speed Trains!

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2011 11:31 AM

Henry,

 

Americans don’t need the "S" in HSR to define socialism.  They can clearly see that they are about to be suffocated by socialism in every new policy coming at them.  HSR is just one facet of it.  And I disagree with your assessment that people are only opposing HSR because they personally resent somebody getting a free train ride.  It is not about personal grudges.   

 

Paul,

 

You said this:

 

“…but what is the correct action at this juncture -- to spend money we don't have on more projects, worthwhile they may be?  Yes we can borrow and run deficits, but when the accumulated deficit reaches around 100% of GNP, you are pretty much maxed out because the interest payments are going to bleed you white.”

 

Not according to the proponents of economic stimulus.  We are being told that the solution to our economic problems is indeed to spend more money that we don’t have.  That is the magic of stimulus.  It takes a dollar and turns it into two dollars.   

 

You say this downturn is just another cycle that we will come out of.  I would not be so sure of that.  It might be just a cycle of some sort, but there are some cycles that begin and end nations. 

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Sunday, January 30, 2011 11:56 AM

I stand by my statement that it is not about dollars it's about priorities.

I hear lots of people complaining about money wasted on infrastructure, including HSR, and humanitarian aid for our citizens.  I hear people even calling for the revocation of the pensions of government retirees, and undermining Social Security.  But I hear almost no one complaining that 8.7 BILLION dollars is unaccounted for in Iraq, or about the cost of maintaining hundreds of military bases all over the world.  I hear almost no one complaining about billions of dollars of incentives that are given to oil companies, even thought they are making record profits while the country struggles.  I hear the same people who are complaining that the government doesn't have enough money to operate demanding billions of dollars in tax cuts for the richest 3% of Americans, thereby reducing the amount of money the government takes in.

It's about how we choose to spend the money that we do have.  It's about priorities.  The double edge sword of morality:  What you will do for a dollar and what you do with a dollar.

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, January 30, 2011 12:46 PM

 so somebody explain reasons (not opinion) why we need HSR and what benefit we gain because I can't see any reason for it especially when run by the federal government.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, January 30, 2011 12:52 PM

Perhaps the HSR is an acronym for the HySteRia we seem to be hearing?  "The sky is falling," said Chicken Little.  The real crisis was at the end of 2008 and well into 2009, with the worst economic mess since the great depression.

That said, I think current priorities do not include HSR expansion.  Military cuts?  Realistically, in view of the instability in the Middle East/Egypt, that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:15 PM

ndbprr

 so somebody explain reasons (not opinion) why we need HSR and what benefit we gain because I can't see any reason for it especially when run by the federal government.

If you look in the latest Trains Magazine and the article about the Swiss tunnel project and how it was undertaken by government and why; 200+mph passenger trains and 99mph freight!.  That is the question, the problem, the place we are, here in America.  Many projects need tending to.  But the investment community wants quick and high returns not long term solutions.  So what do we do about HSR or anything else.

But direct to HSR: your question is excellent.  Before we answer that we must answer what is HSR.  It is a neat catch all term that invokes romantic fancies of literally flying through the country side without know really how fast you are going.  80? 90?100?200? How many miles per hour is high speed.  How many miles per hour is practical? And where?  I believe there are needs and uses for trains of all speeds in our country.  But we must start thinking outside the gas tank and the airport and fancy names like HSR to get to the real answers and the future.  The question after that is if the investment community is unwilling to put up the money should the government do it?  Next Civil War is close at hand?

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:51 PM

My opinion on why we need trains:

Here in Charlotte you can fly round trip to Raleigh, the state capital.  The round trip cost is $401 unless you have bags to take with you.  Taxes, airport fees, and checked baggage fees are not included in that price.  The trip takes about 50 minutes each way.  Add at least an hour at departure to get through the bizarre security play, and another half hour at destination to claim your bags.

You can also take the train.  The round trip cost is $52, bags travel free.  There are no extra fees.  The trip takes 3.5 hours each way.  Add 15 minutes at each end if you check bags.  Up to two can be carried on, eliminating that time.  If you are not checking bags you can arrive 10 minutes before departure.  The train runs 3 times a day in each direction

BUT...  The train also stops at and serves the people in Kannapolis, Salisbury, High Point, Greensboro, Burlington, Durham, and Cary.

Those people do not have the option to fly to either city, and the flight above does not stop there. A person who needs to travel from Kannapolis to Greensboro has to drive to Charlotte, fly to Raleigh then drive to Greensboro.

If there was a non stop train it would take much less time.

Because they are not as noisy, the NIMBYs don't make you build the train stations out in the boonies.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:40 PM

I'm not sure about the accuracy of the airfare of $401 + tax.  As we all know, there are many fares, depending on factors like non-stop vs. 1-2 stops, how far in advance and which day of the week you fly.  For example, if I were to fly on the first weekend of March, nonstop RT fare, including taxes and fees, is only $178.  But, If I flew next Tuesday, Feb. 1, returning Feb. 2, the fare would be $939!!  Clearly, for  business travelers (who have to watch costs these days), the train would make sense.  But if you are just doing a weekend and can plan well in advance, flying could be an option.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:54 PM

I copied those fares off the two websites.  They were both for Wednesday Feb 16 returning the 17th.  I chose two weeks out in the middle of the week specifically because airfare is cheaper in the middle of the week than it is Mon and Fri.  The train fare doesn't change.  Who wants to plan their travel at the convenience of the carrier?  I think that the way airfare is calculated is unfair to people who need to travel on short notice and on their own schedule.

Besides that, my real point was that the train serves all the intermediate communities and the airplane does not.

You could get a cheaper fare from USAir if you went through DC or Philadelphia, but then it would take longer than the train, would involve a plane change, and would still cost more than the train.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:39 PM

Dave: What I can't get over was the idea of making a business trip this Tuesday, $52 vs $939, i.e., a fare 18X the train fare, which is only a little slower, door to door.  It is a great example of the corridor services Amtrak (or somebody less burdened with an outdated mission) can develop that will have a huge ridership and thus cover its OE.  3 1/2 hrs,160 miles, 8 stops.  With somewhat higher top speeds and less dwell time at stops en route, the time could be cut to 2 to 2 1/2 hours.  That is the kind of service in the right locations we should be putting any dollars into; not wasting any more money on labor-intensive long distance cruise ships [sorry, I meant trains] or overly ambitious true HSR projects, for now.

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, January 30, 2011 6:04 PM

Phoebe Vet

Here in Charlotte you can fly round trip to Raleigh, the state capital.  The round trip cost is $401 unless you have bags to take with you.  Taxes, airport fees, and checked baggage fees are not included in that price.  The trip takes about 50 minutes each way.  Add at least an hour at departure to get through the bizarre security play, and another half hour at destination to claim your bags.

You can also take the train.  The round trip cost is $52, bags travel free.  There are no extra fees.  The trip takes 3.5 hours each way.  Add 15 minutes at each end if you check bags.  Up to two can be carried on, eliminating that time.  If you are not checking bags you can arrive 10 minutes before departure.  The train runs 3 times a day in each direction

Phoebe Vet, you are well-served, indeed ... this is a flashback to the 1960s. Here, if I want to ride Amtrak, I get to drive 100 miles to catch a single schedule (east or west) in either direction.

Yours seems to be the kind of service you and others -- rightfully, I think -- have been advocating as at least minimally useful to the public. (Multiple departures, reasonable timekeeping, etc.) So -- how is it doing? Does it seem to be well-supported? Do you use it much yourself?

I am not trying to be "smart." In fact, I would like to think that, in some parts of the country outside the NEC -- Chicago-St. Louis, for instance -- passenger rail really does have something useful to do.  

 

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Sunday, January 30, 2011 6:59 PM

https://apps.dot.state.nc.us/pio/releases/details.aspx?r=4139 

Yes it's well received, and yes I ride it.

It is exactly what I am advocating.  Fast, frequent, and on time.

It is currently being upgraded from 79 mph to 90 mph service.  NC has been putting millions into upgrades and crossing improvements for several years.

Very few people would take a train from Charlotte to Boston, but a lot of people would take the train among the communities along the way.

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:57 PM

Phoebe Vet: Thank you for the report. Very encouraging. If the Obama version of HSR is dead, N.C.'s experience contributes to a powerful argument against defunding of Amtrak, especially when Amtrak is helped out by the states.

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Posted by jclass on Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:36 PM

Phoebe Vet

My opinion on why we need trains:

Here in Charlotte you can fly round trip to Raleigh, the state capital.  The round trip cost is $401 unless you have bags to take with you.  Taxes, airport fees, and checked baggage fees are not included in that price.  The trip takes about 50 minutes each way.  Add at least an hour at departure to get through the bizarre security play, and another half hour at destination to claim your bags.

You can also take the train.  The round trip cost is $52, bags travel free.  There are no extra fees.  The trip takes 3.5 hours each way.  Add 15 minutes at each end if you check bags.  Up to two can be carried on, eliminating that time.  If you are not checking bags you can arrive 10 minutes before departure.  The train runs 3 times a day in each direction

BUT...  The train also stops at and serves the people in Kannapolis, Salisbury, High Point, Greensboro, Burlington, Durham, and Cary.

Those people do not have the option to fly to either city, and the flight above does not stop there. A person who needs to travel from Kannapolis to Greensboro has to drive to Charlotte, fly to Raleigh then drive to Greensboro.

If there was a non stop train it would take much less time.

Because they are not as noisy, the NIMBYs don't make you build the train stations out in the boonies.

 

Dave: I'm a little puzzled by your post.  Now, by interstate, the distance can be traveled in 2 1/2hrs with almost innumerable places to start from or end at inbetween.  I would think that maintaining that road route would be first priority as far as transportation is concerned.  That there is air service between the two cities by major private carriers seems to me to be more of an accommodation on the part of the airlines.  Short flights involve the highest costs of flying with little counterbalancing savings that long distance provides.  Train service is being addressed from the State level, which to me seems the wise choice at this time, and as you point out is working.  To look to Washington for provision would involve inefficient use of government.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, January 31, 2011 5:21 AM

jclass:

No sarcasm intended, but I'm a little confused by your post.  Are you saying there is no place for mass transit if you can get there by automobile?  One of the goals of mass transit is to reduce auto traffic.

The Piedmont and Carolinian are funded by the state, but they are operated by Amtrak.

Many of the passengers don't have a car available to them for the trip.  There are several colleges along the route.  Many just don't want to spend 2.5 hours on the interstate. I see people watching movies on their computers.   Business people can work on the train during the trip.  There is an electrical outlet by every seat and laptops are open at many seats.  I even see meetings going on at the tables in the café car.

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, January 31, 2011 8:17 AM

jclass

 

 Phoebe Vet:

 

My opinion on why we need trains:

Here in Charlotte you can fly round trip to Raleigh, the state capital.  The round trip cost is $401 unless you have bags to take with you.  Taxes, airport fees, and checked baggage fees are not included in that price.  The trip takes about 50 minutes each way.  Add at least an hour at departure to get through the bizarre security play, and another half hour at destination to claim your bags.

You can also take the train.  The round trip cost is $52, bags travel free.  There are no extra fees.  The trip takes 3.5 hours each way.  Add 15 minutes at each end if you check bags.  Up to two can be carried on, eliminating that time.  If you are not checking bags you can arrive 10 minutes before departure.  The train runs 3 times a day in each direction

BUT...  The train also stops at and serves the people in Kannapolis, Salisbury, High Point, Greensboro, Burlington, Durham, and Cary.

Those people do not have the option to fly to either city, and the flight above does not stop there. A person who needs to travel from Kannapolis to Greensboro has to drive to Charlotte, fly to Raleigh then drive to Greensboro.

If there was a non stop train it would take much less time.

Because they are not as noisy, the NIMBYs don't make you build the train stations out in the boonies.

 

 

 

 

Dave: I'm a little puzzled by your post.  Now, by interstate, the distance can be traveled in 2 1/2hrs with almost innumerable places to start from or end at inbetween.  I would think that maintaining that road route would be first priority as far as transportation is concerned.  That there is air service between the two cities by major private carriers seems to me to be more of an accommodation on the part of the airlines.  Short flights involve the highest costs of flying with little counterbalancing savings that long distance provides.  Train service is being addressed from the State level, which to me seems the wise choice at this time, and as you point out is working.  To look to Washington for provision would involve inefficient use of government.

The drive from Charlotte to Raleigh isn't always a lot of fun.  Charlotte has some pretty thick rush hour traffic.  Not "Atlanta thick" or "NEC thick", but still, not much fun to deal with.  I-85 has some rotten "old interstate" sections in it north to Greensboro and I-40/I-85 is a highly traveled, multi-lane urban style freeway from Greensboro to Raleigh.  Not much fun, either.  

The two biggest problems with the NC trains is that they don't have much in the way of good transit connectivity in most of the locations they serve.  Greensboro/Wintson Salem/Highpoint sprawl has two stops on the train, Greensboro and Highpoint, but the whole area is a very low density sprawl.  Not too bad if you are originating your trip there - you can drive to the station.  But terrible if that's your destination for business.

The other problem is poor connectivity to the NEC.  It consists of the Crescent, that has a good short route, but runs in the middle of the night, and the Carolinian, which takes a long, round about way of getting there.

Perhaps, someday, VA and NC can get the Petersburg to Raleigh direct route rebuilt and Charlotte trains can all be NEC service extensions. Yes, hardly anyone will ride Boston to Charlotte, but there would be quite a bit of Baltimore to Raleigh, Richmond to Greensboro and the like...

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, January 31, 2011 8:42 AM

oltmannd

 jclass:

 

 Phoebe Vet:

 

My opinion on why we need trains:

Here in Charlotte you can fly round trip to Raleigh, the state capital.  The round trip cost is $401 unless you have bags to take with you.  Taxes, airport fees, and checked baggage fees are not included in that price.  The trip takes about 50 minutes each way.  Add at least an hour at departure to get through the bizarre security play, and another half hour at destination to claim your bags.

You can also take the train.  The round trip cost is $52, bags travel free.  There are no extra fees.  The trip takes 3.5 hours each way.  Add 15 minutes at each end if you check bags.  Up to two can be carried on, eliminating that time.  If you are not checking bags you can arrive 10 minutes before departure.  The train runs 3 times a day in each direction

BUT...  The train also stops at and serves the people in Kannapolis, Salisbury, High Point, Greensboro, Burlington, Durham, and Cary.

Those people do not have the option to fly to either city, and the flight above does not stop there. A person who needs to travel from Kannapolis to Greensboro has to drive to Charlotte, fly to Raleigh then drive to Greensboro.

If there was a non stop train it would take much less time.

Because they are not as noisy, the NIMBYs don't make you build the train stations out in the boonies.

 

 

 

 

Dave: I'm a little puzzled by your post.  Now, by interstate, the distance can be traveled in 2 1/2hrs with almost innumerable places to start from or end at inbetween.  I would think that maintaining that road route would be first priority as far as transportation is concerned.  That there is air service between the two cities by major private carriers seems to me to be more of an accommodation on the part of the airlines.  Short flights involve the highest costs of flying with little counterbalancing savings that long distance provides.  Train service is being addressed from the State level, which to me seems the wise choice at this time, and as you point out is working.  To look to Washington for provision would involve inefficient use of government.

 

The drive from Charlotte to Raleigh isn't always a lot of fun.  Charlotte has some pretty thick rush hour traffic.  Not "Atlanta thick" or "NEC thick", but still, not much fun to deal with.  I-85 has some rotten "old interstate" sections in it north to Greensboro and I-40/I-85 is a highly traveled, multi-lane urban style freeway from Greensboro to Raleigh.  Not much fun, either.  

The two biggest problems with the NC trains is that they don't have much in the way of good transit connectivity in most of the locations they serve.  Greensboro/Wintson Salem/Highpoint sprawl has two stops on the train, Greensboro and Highpoint, but the whole area is a very low density sprawl.  Not too bad if you are originating your trip there - you can drive to the station.  But terrible if that's your destination for business.

The other problem is poor connectivity to the NEC.  It consists of the Crescent, that has a good short route, but runs in the middle of the night, and the Carolinian, which takes a long, round about way of getting there.

Perhaps, someday, VA and NC can get the Petersburg to Raleigh direct route rebuilt and Charlotte trains can all be NEC service extensions. Yes, hardly anyone will ride Boston to Charlotte, but there would be quite a bit of Baltimore to Raleigh, Richmond to Greensboro and the like...

Underscores my mantra of having to provide service and not just run trains!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, January 31, 2011 8:46 AM

http://www.sehsr.org/ 

Construction of the southeast high speed (110 mph) rail corridor is well under way.  Charlotte to Raleigh to Richmond to DC.  Most of the papers have been shuffled, construction is not far away.

Of course, all that could grind to a halt if the new politicians manage to revoke the already approved but not yet distributed funding.  Many millions have already been spent of the route planning and environmental studies.

Charlotte is in the early stages of building a city center Gateway Station that will serve Amtrak, Lynx Red Line, a Sprinter bus to the airport, Greyhound, and CATS buses all in one facility.  It will be within walking distance of the Carolina Panthers stadium and the Charlotte Bobcats arena.

Greensboro already has a combination facilty, and Raleigh has plans but I don't know the details.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Monday, January 31, 2011 11:31 AM

   Phoebe Vet, it sounds like North Carolina is doing it right.   Provide a useful service, and as patronage dictates, upgrade to incrementally higher speeds.

    Sometimes I think HSR is being used as a decoy.    Back in the sixties it was "Oh, no, rail is obsolete.   What we need is a monorail."   A couple of decades later it was "Oh, no, rail is obsolete.   We need to go to maglev."   Now it's "HSR is the way to go."   The trouble is, each of these, while glamorous-sounding, is very expensive.    The first two are also impractical when it comes to things like switching, and I wonder how maglev would handle a beer can thrown on the track.   The Europeans and Japanese have shown that HSR is practical, but they didn't build them out of the blue, where there was nothing.    They had high population densities, many of whom were already using public transportation, and the HSR was an upgrade of the service.   But city buses and regular trains don't seem very glamorous compared to the expensive sleek shiny bullets.

    Lately, I've held off commenting on the many passenger-related topics because we seem to have formed a small choir preaching to each other.    Henry6 keeps saying "provide a service, don't just run trains" and I agree.    I usually think of it as "integrated and incremental": provide a local transit system connected to regional and inter-city buses and trains, and upgrade as needed all the way to HSR.

    Anyway, it sounds like North Carolina is doing it right.

  

_____________ 

  "A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner

  • Member since
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Posted by schlimm on Monday, January 31, 2011 11:43 AM

The Carolina projects, like other state-supported projects, seem to be on the right path.  Ideally, having mass urban transit available in cities on a corridor is best.  But that takes time and money.  In the case of cities that are very "sprawled," station parking and car rentals can make the train viable, at least in the meantime.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, January 31, 2011 11:47 AM

Phoebe Vet

http://www.sehsr.org/ 

Construction of the southeast high speed (110 mph) rail corridor is well under way.  Charlotte to Raleigh to Richmond to DC.  Most of the papers have been shuffled, construction is not far away.

Of course, all that could grind to a halt if the new politicians manage to revoke the already approved but not yet distributed funding.  Many millions have already been spent of the route planning and environmental studies.

Charlotte is in the early stages of building a city center Gateway Station that will serve Amtrak, Lynx Red Line, a Sprinter bus to the airport, Greyhound, and CATS buses all in one facility.  It will be within walking distance of the Carolina Panthers stadium and the Charlotte Bobcats arena.

Greensboro already has a combination facilty, and Raleigh has plans but I don't know the details.

Greensboro Transit runs in and out of the the train station all day long, but it is not very easy to decipher for the occasional user.....and their web site is just terrible, too.

Also, unfortunately, there has been no actual construction money allocated for the Petersburg - Raleigh section.  They got skunked in both rounds of Federal Money bingo.  In fact, it looks like VA will be doing the Norfolk - Petersburg service first.  The money for construction is in hand, but even then, it'll take 3 years before the first train is run.  Yeesh!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
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  • From: Smoggy L.A.
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Posted by vsmith on Monday, January 31, 2011 6:37 PM

HST World Round-up if the Republicant’s have their way

 

Japan:

 China:

 Britain:

 

France;

 

Germany:

 

Spain:

 

Russia:

 

Taiwan:

 

Italy:

 

 

 

 

America:

 

 

Yep, that’s the USA they want to give us…drive, take a plane, or walk, no busses left. What I don’t understand is that they constantly whine about Amtrak funding and try every year to kill it, yet don’t blink when they give BILLIONS to airline companies that are still running in the red every bit as bad as Amtrak, maybe worse. Why don’t they cut that funding, let 7 or 8 airlines go belly up (free market in action ya know) and let the chips fall where they will? (could you imaging the resulting chaos?) Meanwhile our bridges are crumbling, and our transit infrastructure is slowly atropheing into 3rd world decrepidness...I dunno, maybe they just enjoy having TSA fist them and work them like a Muppet? Bunch of Hypocrites in my eyes.

 

If you build it, they will ride.

   Have fun with your trains

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